Cork behind Limerick for FDI growth

please helpThank YOU

podmu80 wrote: »

Indeed the boundaries should be extended. The true figures were released yesterday, they show the population of each city contained within the urban area, ie. the continuous build up area. This is the figure under "city & suburbs"
This metropolitan area you bring up covers a much wider area, and greater population.
So you can compare city with city, city & suburbs with city & suburbs, or metro with metro. Set whatever boundary you want to BOTH cities, The results will show the same end result.

If You go to the Census 2016 Chapter 1 Population Change you will see Cork City on its own . But you will see Limerick CITY and County are in One. Like Waterford City and County are one. This is all New from 2011 Census Limerick City New Metropolitan area of Limerick City Population has yet to Published yet by the Census 2016.

rebs23

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Cork City Did Not get a Boundary Extension over 50 Years so we are not see the True Population of Cork City . Limerick City is the same as Cork City we are not see the True Population of both Cities . Galway City got a Boundary Extension in 1984 which makes it look bigger than it is.

Time to lock this thread, its getting silly. The true population of the city and suburbs of Irish cities has been published this week by the CSO and quoted here extensively. Cork city is much bigger than Limeycity, get over it.

namloc1980

Rightwing wrote: »

Population of Limerick city & county combined is about 200,000. I agree you can add in a few thousand more living out in Corbally area that should be included. But that's it.

Cork city & county combined have a population of over 500,000. It's a much bigger county geographically, and it has a much bigger population. It's not rocket science.
The OP was badly misinformed, Cork is doing, and has been doing far better than Limk. As did Galway.

Just to clarify, the IDA 2016 stats do indeed show FDI jobs growth is highest in the MidWest at 10% versus 5% in the Southwest and 8% in the West. Combined the Galway and Limerick regions are doing better than Cork in absolute and relative terms. That was the point of the OP (growth is stronger in Limerick than Cork) and it wasn't "badly misinformed" as you put it.

rebs23

namloc1980 wrote: »

Just to clarify, the IDA 2016 stats do indeed show FDI jobs growth is highest in the MidWest at 10% versus 5% in the Southwest and 8% in the West. Combined the Galway and Limerick regions are doing better than Cork in absolute and relative terms. That was the point of the OP (growth is stronger in Limerick than Cork) and it wasn't "badly misinformed" as you put it.

Thanks they're interesting facts.

MrDerp

One year does not a trend make though

2015 saw:

South West 33,831 4,151 - 665 3,486 10.3%
Mid West 15,766 1,689 - 637 1,052 6.7%

http://www.idaireland.com/newsroom/ida-results/

At these kinds of numbers, one off years can be skewed and it's better to look at the trend, which is that there's healthy regional growth throughout the Atlantic corridor and investment should continue in all cities, along with in the infrastructure connecting them.

mire

MrDerp wrote: »

One year does not a trend make though

2015 saw:

South West 33,831 4,151 - 665 3,486 10.3%
Mid West 15,766 1,689 - 637 1,052 6.7%

http://www.idaireland.com/newsroom/ida-results/

At these kinds of numbers, one off years can be skewed and it's better to look at the trend, which is that there's healthy regional growth throughout the Atlantic corridor and investment should continue in all cities, along with in the infrastructure connecting them.

What's most significant in those results, which relate to IDA supported jobs, is the absolute numbers. The South West has as many jobs as the Limerick and Galway combined

please helpThank YOU

namloc1980 wrote: »

Just to clarify, the IDA 2016 stats do indeed show FDI jobs growth is highest in the MidWest at 10% versus 5% in the Southwest and 8% in the West. Combined the Galway and Limerick regions are doing better than Cork in absolute and relative terms. That was the point of the OP (growth is stronger in Limerick than Cork) and it wasn't "badly misinformed" as you put it.

[/QUOTE Midwest is doing Very Well at 10% per cent growth.

Rightwing

namloc1980 wrote: »

Just to clarify, the IDA 2016 stats do indeed show FDI jobs growth is highest in the MidWest at 10% versus 5% in the Southwest and 8% in the West. Combined the Galway and Limerick regions are doing better than Cork in absolute and relative terms. That was the point of the OP (growth is stronger in Limerick than Cork) and it wasn't "badly misinformed" as you put it.

2016 was an outlier for Limerick.

You would really need to take a 5+ year period.

mart 23

Rightwing wrote: »

2016 was an outlier for Limerick.

You would really need to take a 5+ year period.

Hi

I think that for too many years now that the Cork region has been getting too much IDA investment at the expense of the other regions in Munster It always amuses me to hear the usual Cork comment when an investment is announced , This is good for Cork and for Munster.

Rightwing

mart 23 wrote: »

Hi

I think that for too many years now that the Cork region has been getting too much IDA investment at the expense of the other regions in Munster It always amuses me to hear the usual Cork comment when an investment is announced , This is good for Cork and for Munster.

Probably is good for Munster, but an IDA investment in Limk is definitely good for Munster, as a lot of counties are within easy communting difference.

bk

To be honest with you all, this sort of in fighting isn't healthy at all.

As a Corkonian living in Dublin, I can tell you that the Dublin region is so far ahead of the Cork/Limerick region, it isn't even funny. Dublin isn't competing for jobs with Cork/Limerick, it is competing for jobs with London, Zurick, Lisbon, San Fran, etc.

Cork/Limerick aren't even at the races in this game. But I also think they shouldn't try to be, that would be a mistake. Better for Cork/Limerick to work together and offer an alternative for different industries.

People from Cork/Limerick should be focusing on building up the region as an alternative to Dublin. The best way to start on this would be for us all to work together and demand that the M20 is built.

A motorway linking Cork, Limerick and Galway would do a lot to help build up the region.

Pablo Escobar

mart 23 wrote: »

Rightwing wrote: »

2016 was an outlier for Limerick.

You would really need to take a 5+ year period.

Hi

I think that for too many years now that the Cork region has been getting too much IDA investment at the expense of the other regions in Munster  It always amuses me to hear the usual Cork comment when an investment is announced , This is good for Cork and for Munster.

Have you got figures to back that up? I'd genuinely like to see them (I never have) and would have thought that per capita it would have been the other way around. It would be interesting if that was the case alright.

pat ticket

mart 23 wrote: »

Hi

I think that for too many years now that the Cork region has been getting too much IDA investment at the expense of the other regions in Munster It always amuses me to hear the usual Cork comment when an investment is announced , This is good for Cork and for Munster.

Can you give examples where IDA investment has been placed in Cork at the expense of other provincial counties?

please helpThank YOU

bk wrote: »

To be honest with you all, this sort of in fighting isn't healthy at all.

As a Corkonian living in Dublin, I can tell you that the Dublin region is so far ahead of the Cork/Limerick region, it isn't even funny. Dublin isn't competing for jobs with Cork/Limerick, it is competing for jobs with London, Zurick, Lisbon, San Fran, etc.

Cork/Limerick aren't even at the races in this game. But I also think they shouldn't try to be, that would be a mistake. Better for Cork/Limerick to work together and offer an alternative for different industries.

People from Cork/Limerick should be focusing on building up the region as an alternative to Dublin. The best way to start on this would be for us all to work together and demand that the M20 is built.

A motorway linking Cork, Limerick and Galway would do a lot to help build up the region.

I 100 per cent agree with your post Cork/Limerick Motorway Needs to Start Today This Will be Very Positive For Growth Prosperity Economic For Cork/Limerick/Galway.

DylanGLC

Dublin is miles ahead of Cork, but Cork (in my opinion) is miles ahead of Limerick and Galway. Cork is en route to joining Dublin with all of the investment, developments and the construction beginning in the Docklands, however that seems to be more of a private push rather than the government, who are still very much so focused on Dublin. If the transnational flights this summer are a success and if the Event Centre finally gets built, it will definitely put Cork "on the map", at least in Ireland. If anything, it should be Limerick and Galway who should be working together and not Cork and Limerick as Cork is definitely heading in the right direction and seems to be able to handle itself. Another push which would definitely help Cork would be a Cork Bus service, and the eventual BRT and tram system. The former I say would be possible but the latter doesn't look to happen anytime soon.

*all my personal opinion so I could be entirely wrong, and there are elements of bias obviously

Fred_Johnson

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

That city region figure takes in a huge amount of area around the city and is more of a commuter belt figure if anything.

That Metro figure which takes in the line of Ballincollig and Carrigaline is a true representation of the size of the city IMO.

Indeed. To compare like with like, you'd have to compare that with the Greater Dublin Region, with a population of 1.9 million.

IMO the key for Cork is to develop its docklands area with high density commercial and residential. Then 4 or 5 "hubs" on the outskirts of the city should be selected for high density development. These hubs should be destinations for commuters, rather than having everyone trying to drive into the city centre. The goal should be to double the Greater Cork population to about 650,000. This would then justify a luas style public transport that connects these "hubs" with the city centre.

OF course none of this will be allowed to happen due to NIMBYISM but it's nice to dream :-)

please helpThank YOU

DylanGLC wrote: »

Dublin is miles ahead of Cork, but Cork (in my opinion) is miles ahead of Limerick and Galway. Cork is en route to joining Dublin with all of the investment, developments and the construction beginning in the Docklands, however that seems to be more of a private push rather than the government, who are still very much so focused on Dublin. If the transnational flights this summer are a success and if the Event Centre finally gets built, it will definitely put Cork "on the map", at least in Ireland. If anything, it should be Limerick and Galway who should be working together and not Cork and Limerick as Cork is definitely heading in the right direction and seems to be able to handle itself. Another push which would definitely help Cork would be a Cork Bus service, and the eventual BRT and tram system. The former I say would be possible but the latter doesn't look to happen anytime soon.

*all my personal opinion so I could be entirely wrong, and there are elements of bias obviously

Galway is More Interested in Connacht and being a Power House and Being Connect To Dublin. So Cork City and Limerick City Need to Join Together I Think This would Work Very Well as Cork is The Capital of Munster. Why are The Government so Slow Building this New Motorway From Cork To Limerick?

seachto7

A new motorway and Cork and Limerick could work together.

Maybe Limk - Ennis - Galway should work together, but perhaps Galway should focus on Connacht and promote jobs in that region.

I'd love to move from Dublin down the country if I could. Cork would appeal.

DylanGLC

I'm not sure about Galway and Limerick, but I feel a big problem in Cork are people's attitudes towards big development/redevelopment. "Eh, it's fine the way it is, it'll do"/"It's just Cork". It's that small thinking that isn't good for the country. It is good to be realistic but at the same time - dream big! It would be nice if the government cared (I'm sure they kind of do but it would be nice if they showed it a little more)

please helpThank YOU

seachto7 wrote: »

A new motorway and Cork and Limerick could work together.

Maybe Limk - Ennis - Galway should work together, but perhaps Galway should focus on Connacht and promote jobs in that region.

I'd love to move from Dublin down the country if I could. Cork would appeal.

I Heard George Hook on The Radio Saying the Could Build/Construct a Motorway Across from Limerick to Tipperary Cashel and Join The M8 to Cork City and a Cheaper Cost is This a Good idea?

marno21

DylanGLC wrote: »

I'm not sure about Galway and Limerick, but I feel a big problem in Cork are people's attitudes towards big development/redevelopment. "Eh, it's fine the way it is, it'll do"/"It's just Cork". It's that small thinking that isn't good for the country. It is good to be realistic but at the same time - dream big! It would be nice if the government cared (I'm sure they kind of do but it would be nice if they showed it a little more)

This is it. There was a thread in the Cork forum there about a Luas for Cork and a fair amount of people thought it was unviable. Yet Galway think they deserve motorways in every direction and light rail, for a much smaller city. Cork need some of this attitude that has motorways, railways and airports across the west coast when the viability of some of them is in question.

seachto7 wrote: »

A new motorway and Cork and Limerick could work together.

Maybe Limk - Ennis - Galway should work together, but perhaps Galway should focus on Connacht and promote jobs in that region.

I'd love to move from Dublin down the country if I could. Cork would appeal.

Cork - Mallow - Limerick - Ennis - Galway will be very functional when the M20 opens. Lots of potential there.

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Galway is More Interested in Connacht and being a Power House and Being Connect To Dublin. So Cork City and Limerick City Need to Join Together I Think This would Work Very Well as Cork is The Capital of Munster. Why are The Government so Slow Building this New Motorway From Cork To Limerick?

It's baffling. The Ministers are constantly saying that the 800m to build the motorway isn't there, but the fact is that the motorway couldn't be built right now cos the motorway scheme isn't ready to go. Money (starting with a couple of million), needs to be put forward for planning so it can get off the ground, otherwise when the money comes available we'll be looking at 5-7 years before it can start by which time the money will likely be gone.

bk wrote: »

To be honest with you all, this sort of in fighting isn't healthy at all.

As a Corkonian living in Dublin, I can tell you that the Dublin region is so far ahead of the Cork/Limerick region, it isn't even funny. Dublin isn't competing for jobs with Cork/Limerick, it is competing for jobs with London, Zurick, Lisbon, San Fran, etc.

Cork/Limerick aren't even at the races in this game. But I also think they shouldn't try to be, that would be a mistake. Better for Cork/Limerick to work together and offer an alternative for different industries.

People from Cork/Limerick should be focusing on building up the region as an alternative to Dublin. The best way to start on this would be for us all to work together and demand that the M20 is built.

A motorway linking Cork, Limerick and Galway would do a lot to help build up the region.

Exactly this. Cork and Limerick can only work together when there's viable methods of getting between the two cities. At present it's a 1h30m+ journey on ****e roads or a 2 hour rail journey, with shocking connections at either end.

The motorway would also help Cork businesses getting to the US with connections to New York, Boston, Chicago, Philidelphia and Newark available from Shannon. Certain people in Cork may be welcoming the Norwegian Air Shuttle flights but businessmen won't want to sit bolt upright on a 737 from an airport in the middle of nowhere with no business class. Instead access to Logan, Kennedy, O'Hare etc is key.

TII article in the paper last week said (truthfully) that most of Cork's roads are now over their operational capacity, with 180km of new roads needed:

* N20 Cork-Mallow
* N22 Ballyvourney-Cork
* N25 Carrigtwohill - Castlemartyr
* N40 Cork North Ring Road
* N71 Rosscarbery-Cork.

This is in addition to the N28 to Ringaskiddy and the Dunkettle Interchange. In addition to these, the public transport in Cork needs a radical overhaul to ensure that the city isn't completely reliant on cars. The Docklands redevelopment will help here with density potentially increasing the viability of light rail, and reduce reliance on cars needing to drive to jobs in Mahon, Ballincollig etc.

marno21

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

I Heard George Hook on The Radio Saying the Could Build/Construct a Motorway Across from Limerick to Tipperary Cashel and Join The M8 to Cork City and a Cheaper Cost is This a Good idea?

No.

Reasons here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057600214

Was this on today?

please helpThank YOU

Galway City Will Have a New Motorway From Galway to Shannon Airport and to Limerick City . This Was Done Before the Cork to Limerick Motorway ? . This Shows Galway City Has More Power Than Cork our Limerick I have To Say That is A Master Stroke From Galway City.

please helpThank YOU

marno21 wrote: »

No.

Reasons here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057600214

Was this on today?

That was about Year ago on George Hook on his Radio Show.Was a Very Good Radio Show Made a Lot of Scene his Ideas on how This Motorway Could be Done.

marno21

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Galway City Will Have a New Motorway From Galway to Shannon Airport and to Limerick City . This Was Done Before the Cork to Limerick Motorway ? . This Shows Galway City Has More Power Than Cork our Limerick I have To Say That is A Master Stroke From Galway City.

The Limerick-Shannon section was done between the 1970s and 2002, and the Newmarket-on-Fergus (2002) and Ennis (2007) bypasses were planned before any M20. It was around 2007 when the Government planned the rest of Ennis-Galway and Cork-Limerick as motorways.

In 2008, the main Government road spending was on connecting the regional cities to Dublin, with the M1, M6, M7, M8 and M9. These finished construction in 2010. After this was done, the next stage of Transport 21 was to connect Letterkenny to Waterford via Sligo, Galway, Limerick and Cork, the proposed Atlantic Corridor. In 2008, there was enough money spare to advance another section of the Atlantic Corridor, the furthest ahead in planning was the M18 Gort-Crusheen section. In 2011, the old FF government had the entire M20 in front of An Bord Pleanala, with the intention of progressing it as a PPP when Ireland was able to borrow again. Other PPPs were further advanced and have since been built (M11 Arklow-Rathnew, N7 Newlands Cross, N25 New Ross BP, M11 Gorey-Enniscorthy and M17/M18 Gort-Tuam). Unfortunately, when FG got into power in 2011 the M20 along with 70/80 other schemes were "suspended", and most of the work done on them is now obsolete.

The M20 now has to be started from scratch, but only €1m has been allocated to the scheme for 2017. That's simply not enough.

goochy

as a Dub living in Cork , I think Cork is a template for how to run a large county . Don't care how much development is going on in Dublin , it is and will always be a kip as theres too many lower lower class people.

rant over

ongarboy

podmu80 wrote: »

That isn't the figure for the metropolitan area. That's city and suburbs only. The continuous urban area.
Today's release is only a summary. Don't think metropolitan areas were included in today's release.

What is the definition of a metropolitan area though? What is the defined boundary of that metropolitain area? Surely continuous urban area including suburbs and environs as per the 208K quoted in last week's Census is the most appropriate benchmark of a city's wider population? I mean just because people from Kinsale, Mallow or Charleville commute to Cork for work, study or hospital treatments, including the populations of those smaller towns in the metropolitan area population of Cork of 400K is a bit meaningless. The entire county of Cork has 540K approx. I doubt very much 75% of the the population live in the city's metropolitan area? People from Cavan and Portlaoise commute to Dublin, are they therefore part of Dublins metro population? I agree an urban centre can have influence that extends out to areas 100kms and more but incorporating areas that far out into a city's population is a bit misleading.

It is nice to see the official Cork city and suburbs population pass the 200,000 mark though. If the economy and inward migration pick up as has been the case very recently all the way to the next census in 2021, I wouldn't be surprised if Limerick passes the 100K mark while Cork adds another 15 to 20K to it's urban population.

podmu80

ongarboy wrote: »

What is the definition of a metropolitan area though? What is the defined boundary of that metropolitain area? Surely continuous urban area including suburbs and environs as per the 208K quoted in last week's Census is the most appropriate benchmark of a city's wider population? I mean just because people from Kinsale, Mallow or Charleville commute to Cork for work, study or hospital treatments, including the populations of those smaller towns in the metropolitan area population of Cork of 400K is a bit meaningless. The entire county of Cork has 540K approx. I doubt very much 75% of the the population live in the city's metropolitan area? People from Cavan and Portlaoise commute to Dublin, are they therefore part of Dublins metro population? I agree an urban centre can have influence that extends out to areas 100kms and more but incorporating areas that far out into a city's population is a bit misleading.

It is nice to see the official Cork city and suburbs population pass the 200,000 mark though. If the economy and inward migration pick up as has been the case very recently all the way to the next census in 2021, I wouldn't be surprised if Limerick passes the 100K mark while Cork adds another 15 to 20K to it's urban population.

I agree with you. The 208k reflects the population of Cork City proper. I'm certainly not arguing to include towns 40km away.
I was responding to a poster who was having trouble accepting the figures released for Limerick, and brought metro areas into it.
Metro area is another discussion, and I'm not advocating it to be used as the population of the urban area. The boundaries seem a bit loose, or extend a bit far imo.

mire

podmu80 wrote: »

I agree with you. The 208k reflects the population of Cork City proper. I'm certainly not arguing to include towns 40km away.
I was responding to a poster who was having trouble accepting the figures released for Limerick, and brought metro areas into it.
Metro area is another discussion, and I'm not advocating it to be used as the population of the urban area. The boundaries seem a bit loose, or extend a bit far imo.

I think people are confused. The Urban population is the city and built up area. The metropolitan Population includes satellite towns close to the city like glanmire, ballincollig. It does not include Kinsale, charleville etc.

ongarboy

mire wrote: »

I think people are confused. The Urban population is the city and built up area. The metropolitan Population includes satellite towns close to the city like glanmire, ballincollig. It does not include Kinsale, charleville etc.

The area you refer to as metropolitan is actually the Cork city and suburbs/environs population of 208000 as counted by the Census. Have a look at attached and zoom into Cork and select Towns/Cities (Settlements) and it will give you the geographical boundary make up of the population that made up Cork and suburbs back in 2011 when the population was 198000. Note that Ballincollig, Glanmire etc are included but Carrigaline and Cobh etc aren't so this is the buiilt up area - whether people want to call that metropolitan or not is up to them This may differ slightly (ie be larger) when the same results are made public for Census 2016 later this year.

http://census.cso.ie/sapmap/