Overtime and no payment

screamer

Just wondering what is your opinion on this, reading a contract that states that overtime will be needed, but that there will be no additional remuneration for this. From time to time, that's OK, but what if overtime becomes a regular need and there is no provision for compensation of any kind.......

Dial Hard

screamer wrote:

Just wondering what is your opinion on this, reading a contract that states that overtime will be needed, but that there will be no additional remuneration for this. From time to time, that's OK, but what if overtime becomes a regular need and there is no provision for compensation of any kind.......

Pretty much the norm in salaried roles, I'm afraid.

pilly

A lot of places don't pay overtime if you're on a salary but it would want to be a very good salary.

What you do when it becomes a very regular issue I don't really know. It never has for me in the past. If there were extreme circumstances where I did a lot one week I'd get an extra day off the following week.

Depends how reasonable the employer is I suppose.

screamer

Yep, that's what I am worried about, contractually they have to give nothing, no remuneration, no time in lieu, how much overtime is "enough".... anywhere I've worked before overtime was a may be needed situation, (and I had no bother doing it when needed now and again) not a will be needed.... so, we will make you work more, we won't pay you though.... dunno about this one.

pilly

screamer wrote: »

Yep, that's what I am worried about, contractually they have to give nothing, no remuneration, no time in lieu, how much overtime is "enough".... anywhere I've worked before overtime was a may be needed situation, (and I had no bother doing it when needed now and again) not a will be needed.... so, we will make you work more, we won't pay you though.... dunno about this one.

Depends very much on the salary imo.

skallywag

As others have mentioned it is quite the norm for a salaried position to require a certain amount of uncompensated overtime.

That said, I have not come across a clause which states 'overtime will be needed' , 'overtime may be required' would be the much more usual wording.

I think you are right to be concerned about this topic, as it can really turn into a source of dispute if the expectation from both sides is way out of line from the beginning. I would suggest that you strike up an honest discussion with the employer before starting in such a role, i.e. in order to get a feeling for how much OT may really be required. It's in the employer's interest to be up front and honest about it here as well, as it's clear as day that you are just going to leave after a short spell if your own expectation is dramatically different.

NinjaTruncs

I'd have concerns if the contract is starting that Overtime will be needed. As others have said in a lot of salaried jobs, particularly in the private sector, overtime if needed isn't paid for.

I worked for a company where during the interview stage they asked lots of questions about overtime and would doing it be an issue, not thinking too much about with it I went ahead with the offer. My god the amount of overtime they wanted was ridiculous, with hindsight if another company emphasized overtime so much during the interview stage I be out the door so quick.

I'm not sure of your situation, sometimes you need to take a job, but if you're moving from one to another I'd have a long think about whether it's worth you moving.

jimmycrackcorm

screamer wrote:

, how much overtime is "enough"

The answer to that is enough is when you decide your employer is taking the piss and you leave to go elsewhere.

skallywag

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

I worked for a company where during the interview stage they asked lots of questions about overtime and would doing it be an issue, not thinking too much about with it I went ahead with the offer. My god the amount of overtime they wanted was ridiculous, with hindsight if another company emphasized overtime so much during the interview stage I be out the door so quick.

I would also agree strongly with the above, i.e. if the topic of OT is being strongly pushed during the interview phase then I would certainly be very wary of having to work a lot of it in reality. If the reality of the situation is that very little OT will be required then most interviewers will just keep away from the topic completely unless questioned.

witchgirl26

Overtime not being compensated is quite normal once you hit a certain level in the large majority of companies and are on a salaried role. My previous jobs contract did state "overtime will be needed" but followed it with "on certain occasions and will be discussed in advance". So context of those initial 4 words is important. Predominately the overtime I had to do were some meetings as it was a multinational company so we had people from our team in the US and in Asia. There were a couple of other instances of overtime but never anything major.

If they are talking a lot about overtime in interviews then possibly a problem but if it's more a discussion about whether you'd be able to occasionally do some overtime, don't overthink it. And you can always go back with questions on a contract. I don't think I've never not asked for clarity on a few things.

Manion

See the working time Act,

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/hours_of_work/working_week.html

They are not required to pay you but are required to ensure your working week does not exceed 48 hours on average. I'd recommend logging in your timesheet the actual hours worked. I'd also recommend keeping your own record.

Wanderer2010

I don't know, I must have been lucky, I have worked as a salaried worker for large companies all over Ireland and without fail, any time I was asked to do overtime or anytime I came in on Saturday for a few hours to catch up, I always, always got paid for it. And to be honest, I expect it. This thing of "oh your on a salary you don't get paid overtime" is pure crap to me. Why would me being on a salary make my time worth less than anyone else?
You work extra, you should get paid extra. Simple.

jimmycrackcorm

Wanderer2010 wrote:

I don't know, I must have been lucky, I have worked as a salaried worker for large companies all over Ireland and without fail, any time I was asked to do overtime or anytime I came in on Saturday for a few hours to catch up, I always, always got paid for it. And to be honest, I expect it. This thing of "oh your on a salary you don't get paid overtime" is pure crap to me. Why would me being on a salary make my time worth less than anyone else? You work extra, you should get paid extra. Simple.

My experience is that if you're not at supervisor or above level then you'll typically get overtime. Otherwise working extra hours is ad hoc and time in lieu is more common.

stateofflux

Unless you salary is way up there then make sure you get paid for overtime. Especially if its happening a lot.

Mrs OBumble

stateofflux wrote: »

Unless you salary is way up there then make sure you get paid for overtime. Especially if its happening a lot.

What sort of salary would you consider to be "way up there"?

40k? 50? 60? 100?

Lux23

I worked twelve hour days regularly on a 30K salary. If I complained it would be my fault for not being able to keep up with the job. That is just way things are sometimes.

stateofflux

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What sort of salary would you consider to be "way up there"?

40k? 50? 60? 100?

far above the average -- 60 id say.

jimmycrackcorm

Lux23 wrote: »

I worked twelve hour days regularly on a 30K salary. If I complained it would be my fault for not being able to keep up with the job. That is just way things are sometimes.

That's a complete piss take, get another job, then let them know they can find another skivvy while you take your notice period very handy.