FE1 Exam Thread (Read 1st post!) NOTICE: YOU MAY SWAP EXAM GRIDS

MagicThree18

In terms of a possible note question that asks about four equitable maxims, I'm thinking one case per maxim would be enough to illustrate the point? It's only a 15 minute answer after all.

david_etc

MagicThree18 wrote: »

It's not the initial expense that bothers me per se. It's that the exams appear to be there to generate money for the Law Society, not to test prospective lawyers. I have no problem with the exams being very difficult, but that difficulty is artificially increased, by the 'pass three' requirement and the unpredictable timetable, to generate 'repeat business' and make even more money. It's a cynical theory of mine and I haven't a shred of proof, but hey ho, that's what's I think.

A whole cottage industry has popped up around these exams, with the various course providers etc. encouraging rote-learning instead of candidates critically engaging with the material. Examiner's reports constantly refer to candidates reciting learned off material instead of engaging with the material, and yet who can blame us when we know that it works. There's a disconnect between what the examiner's feel is necessary for prospective lawyers to know, and how candidates approach the exams because of the requirements involved. It's a broken system. It's there as a stop-gap solution to prevent a bottle-neck of applicants and to keep Blackhall Place extravagantly decorated.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'd like to see the exams become even more difficult, but in the correct way. Stop this emphasis on rote-learning, have a fixed timetable each year so people can identify their subjects of choice (and to fit work around it, for those of us that have to work their bollocks off in a law firm, or elsewhere, between exams) and allow people to bank and exam when it's passed, rather than having to re-sit something that you've already proved your competency in.

100% agree with this sentiment. The timetable issue makes no sense whatsoever and it really is just a nuisance (for example, my final two are Company and EU, both on Wednesdays this year, which just makes it awkward for taking time off work etc.) - and it's understandable that people want to cover topics that have crossovers in material (property/equity/contract) but an overriding factor will also be not wanting to do those topics in a row, if possible.

I also can't be the only person who thinks, after spending whatever amount on the exams, that it's a bit much that you can still hear the kitchen staff in the Red Cow singing/shouting/banging around when you're trying to recall specific subsections of legislation. /rant.

david_etc

ronan.albert wrote: »

Hi guys,

Hope the exams are going well. By any chance would one of ye have a copy of the October 2017 and March 2018 exam papers for EU law in electronic form? Or would one of ye be able to screenshot the exam questions and send them on?

I´ve only just realised I don´t have copies of these two most recent papers. If anyone can help me out I´d be so grateful. I´ve got loads of sample essays and exam grids for tort, equity, property and contract that I can send on as well in return.

Thanks in advance

Ronan

Someone posted this from last March:

General principles of eu law and how they're used to protect individuals by the court of justice and to ensure that the eu institutions and the member states act in accordance with law

Problem on art. 34

Problem on direct effect

Essay on judicial review, has the plaumann test continued to make it "literally impossible" for non privileged applicants to institute proceedings against an act of the eu

Problem on citizenship/workers

Problem on arts 30 and 110

Case note Q

Last question was a part A and a part B you answered one. A was on whether the law is now sufficiently developed in relation to sex equality in employment such that the institutions can now focus on other forms of discrimination

B was about competition (art.102) the extent to which a dominant undertaking can take steps to protect its own commercial position on the market

jus_me

Does criminal or equity mix topics?

MagicThree18

jus_me wrote: »

Does criminal or equity mix topics?

Equity doesn't.

holliek

What are people leaving out of equity? I'm not doing secret trusts, any maxims or satisfaction. Is there other topics that'd be safe to give a miss?

jewels652

Vegetarian2017 wrote: »

I agree, the exams aren't actually that hard yes i haven't passed but it is the absolute fatigue and the whole system on top of fulltime work that gets you in the end. The whole system is unfair. Particularly when you have a good law degree then have to go through this hurdle. What frustrates me is i understand the topics but the whole process wears me down. Also even planning ahead you also have life situations you cannot plan for that can take a valuable weekend of study before exams. I've worked so hard this time but cannot control everything.
The fatigue in yesterdays exam i forgot things i know. It's awful.

It will never change unless every candidate out there sat a set of fe1s out to demand change.

I think if the were spread out and open book exams but tougher and a better system. It gives you a better idea of working as a solicitor. Not people revising repetitive material and essays!!

I totally agree with everything you said. I handed my dissertation on the 14 th of September and my plan was to start studying straight away but I got the tummy bug for a full week so I couldn’t study then I got the flu which left me with a chest infection that is not going away that easy and having to go to Dublin and pay for the bus up and down for the hotel and everything that comes with it.
I understand that there should be some sort of testing for new solicitors but the lack of guidance given by the law society, these professional courses that are so expensive and the exams are more of a memory test, what can you remember in 3 hours. Well I don’t think that doesn’t make us good solicitors.
I still think that if you have a law degree you should be allowed to go straight to the ppc courses there is no need to study everything all over again unless your degree is a non-law degree or if you are a foreign lawyer hoping to practice in Ireland. These is all to make money for the law society. We need to form some sort of a union or collective and ask for some sort of compromise. Even if they say ok you don’t need to pass 3 to secure them if they allow us to even secure the topic that we pass I would be very happy even if is one topic.

But again it should be done right. First, we need to set up a collective, who will then be the ones discussing the issues and negotiate for us with the law society and see if they are willing to compromise and reach some agreement. If not We could call to boycott the next sitting make a call to every prospective fe1 not to apply for the October 2018 sitting for example. Doing that would have an impact on the law society and they won’t be long calling for discussions to reach an agreement.

One question How many people sat yesterday’s exam?

holliek

jewels652 wrote: »

I totally agree with everything you said. I handed my dissertation on the 14 th of September and my plan was to start studying straight away but I got the tummy bug for a full week so I couldn’t study then I got the flu which left me with a chest infection that is not going away that easy and having to go to Dublin and pay for the bus up and down for the hotel and everything that comes with it.
I understand that there should be some sort of testing for new solicitors but the lack of guidance given by the law society, these professional courses that are so expensive and the exams are more of a memory test, what can you remember in 3 hours. Well I don’t think that doesn’t make us good solicitors.
I still think that if you have a law degree you should be allowed to go straight to the ppc courses there is no need to study everything all over again unless your degree is a non-law degree or if you are a foreign lawyer hoping to practice in Ireland. These is all to make money for the law society. We need to form some sort of a union or collective and ask for some sort of compromise. Even if they say ok you don’t need to pass 3 to secure them if they allow us to even secure the topic that we pass I would be very happy even if is one topic.

But again it should be done right. First, we need to set up a collective, who will then be the ones discussing the issues and negotiate for us with the law society and see if they are willing to compromise and reach some agreement. If not We could call to boycott the next sitting make a call to every prospective fe1 not to apply for the October 2018 sitting for example. Doing that would have an impact on the law society and they won’t be long calling for discussions to reach an agreement.

One question How many people sat yesterday’s exam?

Very true, who wants to start this ASAP
I sat yesterdays paper, not sure if your looking for overall number though, if so in my room there was about 250 (that's block b and c combined)

holliek

How did they start the petition for the dates to be changed in April 2014? Could look into that because that approach worked. I agree even compensation that we don't have to pass all 3! Anyone know how you can get the ball rolling on this? I genuinely think we have a chance with this reasoning

jewels652

We don’t realise it but we have some bargaining power here. We could start with friendly discussions and if they are willing to negotiate then it be fine. But imagine if we all stand together and do not apply for any exams that will be the end of their money making machine and they will have no choice but to reach some sort of agreement.

How do we get the ball rolling?
Well we need to perhaps call a meeting and select a group of people who have leadership skills and are confident to be our voice. Set up a page were can be sort of private only for future solicitors does sitting or hoping to sit Fe1s. Contact radio stations get out in the news the law society one like that kind of attention.
And yes imagine if they just agree to change the timetable for 2019 and if they agree that securing 3 is no longer necessary I would be over the moon.
When this exams are over we need to organise a meeting perhaps in the red cow hotel and select or committee and get them to set up a private page get signatures and everything that goes with it. It won’t be the first time something like this will be done in Ireland and every time it seems to be the only way people are heard.

lawless11

holliek wrote: »

What are people leaving out of equity? I'm not doing secret trusts, any maxims or satisfaction. Is there other topics that'd be safe to give a miss?

I'm leaving out secret trusts (just too complicated/don't want to do it), void & voidable trusts, a thing called "equitable
interests and equities" under the manual and satisfaction/conversion/election because I didn't do them in college either so f it. I also may leave out rectification, TBS.

illy.m

jewels652 wrote: »

We don’t realise it but we have some bargaining power here. We could start with friendly discussions and if they are willing to negotiate then it be fine. But imagine if we all stand together and do not apply for any exams that will be the end of their money making machine and they will have no choice but to reach some sort of agreement.

How do we get the ball rolling?
Well we need to perhaps call a meeting and select a group of people who have leadership skills and are confident to be our voice. Set up a page were can be sort of private only for future solicitors does sitting or hoping to sit Fe1s. Contact radio stations get out in the news the law society one like that kind of attention.
And yes imagine if they just agree to change the timetable for 2019 and if they agree that securing 3 is no longer necessary I would be over the moon.
When this exams are over we need to organise a meeting perhaps in the red cow hotel and select or committee and get them to set up a private page get signatures and everything that goes with it. It won’t be the first time something like this will be done in Ireland and every time it seems to be the only way people are heard.

This is what I was thinking in the past few days! There should be some petition pages to make that people can sign. Like seriously, most of us have a law degree, we did all these subjects etc. if I graduates last year why di I have to sit these again? Pay for them? In college I got A in my criminal exam, I only got 40 in the FE1 last sitting, and he says there is a healthy pass rate? Whatever the story with that NI was, but why do people have to spend 2-4 years of no life trying to pass these, when they already have a law degree? That just doesn't make sense.

user115

Def think it's worth engaging with the law society but I'll prob wait til after these set of exams to even think about that..... I duno if the whole boycott thing would work alot of people will still sit them for work and to secure traineeships. I think the whole process is extremely unfair, non transparent and we get no say at all in anything not even a forum to engage with the examiners correcting our exam. The exams have a massive impact on our careers, I would go down the unfair process route and all that. I'm sure if we sat down to chat about it we could come up with some pretty solid legal reasons for improving the process. But I'm really not gona put any energy into that til after Tuesday. Absolutely nothing is published from them because they don't want to reveal the figure they make on these exams, if you think about I'm fairly sure we can get all that info under freedom of information. Would also be worth looking at the 1996 decision which actually required us to do them. I think the examiners would love more engagement and to actually see we understand material. I got a really good degree and no recognition in these exams for that work. We should be able to get exemptions at least. Other professions allow that. Things like land and criminal and contract are subjects we already have proven we know, why make us do it again??

ucdlaw_2018

user115 wrote: »

Question on easements was lost modern grant completely abolished by lclra 2009? Or does it still exist for current claims of easement via prescription? So confused 🀔

The 2009 act introduced a transitional period of 3 years in which the old methods could be relied on. This led to a lot of confusion to which the Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2011 clarified the matter and said that the new methods of prescription can be relied on from Dec 2021 meaning that the transitional period is actually from 3-12 years. So no new form of pres occurs until 2021. So the old law applies until 2021. (I think!)

illy.m

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/students-challenge-to-change-in-law-society-exam-rules-rejected-1.67434

bigtophat13

You just need to look at how many people are sitting them to see how much they make, 1100 numbers plus the other day, while they might not all have 8 this time they do at some point so look at it as a "class" of 1100 and say they pay 100 for the sake of easy maths each and we're up to 110,000 and then 8 exams brings us to 880,000. A lot of money.

Back to the actual exams though, for equity are people just doing undue influence in the context of the cases of wives going into banks and that?

Jenosul

illy.m wrote: »

This is what I was thinking in the past few days! There should be some petition pages to make that people can sign. Like seriously, most of us have a law degree, we did all these subjects etc. if I graduates last year why di I have to sit these again? Pay for them? In college I got A in my criminal exam, I only got 40 in the FE1 last sitting, and he says there is a healthy pass rate? Whatever the story with that NI was, but why do people have to spend 2-4 years of no life trying to pass these, when they already have a law degree? That just doesn't make sense.

I agree also. Totally disagree with the exams. It is but a mere memory test. The concept of having to pass 3 to keep 3 is completely unfair. I have never heard of such a standard in an exam.

They need to take into account that we are actually finished our college lives and most full time employees. The fatigue and stress for such an unproductive endeavor is chronic. I had to just go to bed after my last exam as I literally did not feel well and am popping pills constantly for splitting headaches, coupled with having to work full-time and study.

I think a petition is a great idea. A big boycott would also work but getting everyone on board would be a difficult task. The 50% pass is also bs. We are paying enough money to sit them at least make the rules some what on the side of fairness.

How do we go about organizing a petition. If we do this we need to actually go about it.

holliek

bigtophat13 wrote: »

You just need to look at how many people are sitting them to see how much they make, 1100 numbers plus the other day, while they might not all have 8 this time they do at some point so look at it as a "class" of 1100 and say they pay 100 for the sake of easy maths each and we're up to 110,000 and then 8 exams brings us to 880,000. A lot of money.

Back to the actual exams though, for equity are people just doing undue influence in the context of the cases of wives going into banks and that?

Yeah looking at it there the majority of past questions have only been on third parties so probably could just focus on that

user115

illy.m wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/students-challenge-to-change-in-law-society-exam-rules-rejected-1.67434

Thanks for sharing that, ya I would try get my hands on a text of the decision and also the regulations which the exams are founded on. Also worth noting we can get a copy of our exam scripts under both GDPR and under that cases brought against the accountants society there a few years back, as those scripts qualify as personal data. The law is there we just need to use it. I would definitely be interested in following this up after the exams. I usually never log into boards only for fe1 but will be checking this after them.

Vegetarian2017

Well as mentioned above, i totally agree with the boycott. I will be even more motivated if i dont get these exams. I have put in the work paid so much money and taken the time off. Yes imagine if it was two exams a week like a Friday and a Monday then the following. They make money from us failing not to mention after paying the price you cannot get individual feedback on what went wrong like wtf!!!

I agree perhaps after exams set up a separate forum on here get the ball rolling spread the word see how many people reach before taking any steps.
People speak in numbers.

MagicThree18

bigtophat13 wrote: »

for equity are people just doing undue influence in the context of the cases of wives going into banks and that?

Pretty much. I'll have a case or two to distinguish the different categories but my focus will be on that sequence of wife/bank cases and the difference between the English and Irish authorities.

Vegetarian2017

Jenosul wrote:

They need to take into account that we are actually finished our college lives and most full time employees. The fatigue and stress for such an unproductive endeavor is chronic. I had to just go to bed after my last exam as I literally did not feel well and am popping pills constantly for splitting headaches, coupled with having to work full-time and study.

This in itself, so many headaches it is horrific. I feel so run down because yes i have a life and a fulltime job. We are not 17 year olds living at home with a luxury of months off unless you have a huge support network and money to stay off for two months.

illy.m

Guys I opened a new thread for this issue https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057917486 , so that this one could relate to study

Anyone interested we could consider writing a letter to LS first, having as many signatures as possible, after everyone finishes their exams next week.

Vegetarian2017

Ok last comment re fe1 but if one can prove they are working fulltime there should be some exemption ie. 40 or 45 percent pass rate for those in fulltime employment or spread exams out anything at this stage. Right back to study.

djsilver17

This may be a silly question to be asking at this point (having managed to somehow pass a few exams already at this stage) - but if you choose to answer five questions and then take a quick stab at a sixth, do the examiners simply tally up all your points or do you only get to keep points for your 5 best answers? Clearly never had time to spare for a 6th question before but I’m feeling desperate today about eu and wondering if having some bit of broad knowledge might help for a few add’l topics.

Jaspoon12

Anybody got any criminal examiners reports or sample answers would be much appreciated? Go Raibh Maith Agat

L124

Another thing is that the exams are only held in Dublin. Candidates are coming from all over the country and having to spend out on ridiculous accommodation costs. Highly unfair.


Edit:
— just saw the comment about having set up a new thread. Sorry!

holliek

Thoughts on mareva injunctions.. They come up often but considering they come up last sitting, would people reckon its safe to ignore?

lawless11

holliek wrote: »

Thoughts on mareva injunctions.. They come up often but considering they come up last sitting, would people reckon its safe to ignore?

I'm ignoring it - for better or for worse. If equity (also) screws all my predictions, oh well... Haha. I'll study all the others and pray.

MagicThree18

I think ignoring any of the injunctions is crazy. It seems to be the only guaranteed topic each year. The last time I sat equity both mandatory interloc and Anton Piller came up. Imagine something similar happened again. 40% of your paper covered with one topic.