FE1 Exam Thread (Read 1st post!) NOTICE: YOU MAY SWAP EXAM GRIDS

LawGirl3434

Hi all,

Would anyone be able to recommend what they consider to be the best preparatory course for Equity? I am a non law graduate myself so ideally one that was suited for such. I managed to pass the first 4 I sat in March, but am concerned with Equity because of the high fail rate and I understand the examiner to be particularly tough.

Thanks!

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Suggest any replies to this be by email. Boards.ie would not want to get involved in comparisons ot the various courses. People who run these courses tend to be sensitive

Tony_TwoLegs

ally1234 wrote: »

Has any kind person a decent template of a cover letter for applying to training contract??
I got one a couple of years ago from Law Society seminar about finding a TC but have misplaced it. My current letter is just not hitting the spot. I keep changing it, its either too longwinded or two short. In exchange i have notes on all subjects (except Constitutional) that i will gladly pass on.

Hi.
I have experience with all this.
If you want I can take a look at your current letter and suggest improvements.
Are you a law grad? FE1 completed?
What type places you targeting?

Breacnua

It is fair and common practice for an external examiner to correct random scripts. They also correct scripts that are of a very high, very low grade and ones near a pass. It’s all to make sure the marking is fair to the marking scheme that has been agreed. It’s done in Irish state exams like the leaving cert.

As regards many not getting the magic 3 to make more money / weed people out, it’s about answering questions asked. If it’s not done over the 15 questions in the 3 papers they show no mercy and people have more experience and knowledge the second / third time around.

As regards no comments on scripts, I have come to conclusion they scan the scripts and they are looking for key phrases and words to the question asked and if it’s waffle forget about it. In summary, I don’t think the scripts are marked fairly and some ppl are failed which shouldn’t be as they may not have started clearly but the Crux is there in amongst flowery language.

What i am going to to any more is cut throat short snappy answers and learn every topic inside out. I see it as the only way around them which makes it a mountain of work per subject and a lot of time consumed with study. Predicting and grids are ok a week before but one has to rely on knowing the bulk if not all.

I think that’s what makes them so difficult , the sheer volume of content.

Each and everyone on this thread is well able if they apply themselves and put in
The hours. That I’m sure of!

Tony_TwoLegs

Breacnua wrote: »

It is fair and common practice for an external examiner to correct random scripts. They also correct scripts that are of a very high, very low grade and ones near a pass. It’s all to make sure the marking is fair to the marking scheme that has been agreed. It’s done in Irish state exams like the leaving cert.

As regards many not getting the magic 3 to make more money / weed people out, it’s about answering questions asked. If it’s not done over the 15 questions in the 3 papers they show no mercy and people have more experience and knowledge the second / third time around.

As regards no comments on scripts, I have come to conclusion they scan the scripts and they are looking for key phrases and words to the question asked and if it’s waffle forget about it. In summary, I don’t think the scripts are marked fairly and some ppl are failed which shouldn’t be as they may not have started clearly but the Crux is there in amongst flowery language.

What i am going to to any more is cut throat short snappy answers and learn every topic inside out. I see it as the only way around them which makes it a mountain of work per subject and a lot of time consumed with study. Predicting and grids are ok a week before but one has to rely on knowing the bulk if not all.

I think that’s what makes them so difficult , the sheer volume of content.

Each and everyone on this thread is well able if they apply themselves and put in
The hours. That I’m sure of!

I suppose if you're a non-law graduate you'll be somewhat handicapped as the material is foreign to you.
Studying for the BCL helped me pass all three on my first sit. That said, I scrapped by with bare 50 ish %s.
E.g. 52 in one subject. The same Examinet taught me the subject the previous year in a NUI and awarded me 66 in the same subject there. Go figure that one out!?

Jimdtug1

Thanks a million. Just wondering if possible could you post Question 2 in its entirety? I really don't understand how i failed the question as reading back my answer it seems like a solid 12 mark answer - to the point with plenty of case law and academic commentary - but i only got 7!!

kasey0123

Where is everyone buying notes ?

Tony_TwoLegs

Does anyone have comprehensive Criminal notes? I threw mine away as I only had physical notes for it.
Need them now for Kings Inns exam.
Have material to swap. Have actually passed the FE1s so my stuff is prob ok.

kasey0123

Tony_TwoLegs wrote: »

Does anyone have comprehensive Criminal notes? I threw mine away as I only had physical notes for it.
Need them now for Kings Inns exam.
Have material to swap. Have actually passed the FE1s so my stuff is prob ok.

I got some adverts fairly concise!

Breacnua

Tony_TwoLegs wrote: »

I suppose if you're a non-law graduate you'll be somewhat handicapped as the material is foreign to you.
Studying for the BCL helped me pass all three on my first sit. That said, I scrapped by with bare 50 ish %s.
E.g. 52 in one subject. The same Examinet taught me the subject the previous year in a NUI and awarded me 66 in the same subject there. Go figure that one out!?

Simple - a different marking scheme! The LS have their own criteria which is a mystery!!!

I’ve a law degree which no doubt helps but it’s not a defining factor as to weather a person is capable of exams or not.

vid36

I got 66 in a University exam and 57 in the FE1, same subject, same examiner .

randomrb

Breacnua wrote: »

As regards no comments on scripts, I have come to conclusion they scan the scripts and they are looking for key phrases and words to the question asked and if it’s waffle forget about it. In summary, I don’t think the scripts are marked fairly and some ppl are failed which shouldn’t be as they may not have started clearly but the Crux is there in amongst flowery language.

What i am going to to any more is cut throat short snappy answers and learn every topic inside out. I see it as the only way around them which makes it a mountain of work per subject and a lot of time consumed with study. Predicting and grids are ok a week before but one has to rely on knowing the bulk if not all.

I think this is an excellent point. The same as any other exam technique is as important as knowledge if not more. A few tips; literally highlight or underline any mention of legislation, case or article in your answer. Make sure you use headings for paragraphs to show you are covering every key area and make sure your intro and conclusion are solid, ie they tell the examiner what you are going to do in the answer they aren't just waffle.
As a lecturer I used to have said you need to bully the examiner into giving you marks by slapping them in the face with what you know.

scooby321

Tony_TwoLegs wrote: »

Does anyone have comprehensive Criminal notes? I threw mine away as I only had physical notes for it.
Need them now for Kings Inns exam.
Have material to swap. Have actually passed the FE1s so my stuff is prob ok.

I was sent some good ones which helped me pass, they didn't include the updated sexual offences chapter though but I just did that by hand but I'll send you what I have. DM me your email and I will send them on

z6vm1dobfnca3x

randomrb wrote: »

I think this is an excellent point. The same as any other exam technique is as important as knowledge if not more. A few tips; literally highlight or underline any mention of legislation, case or article in your answer. Make sure you use headings for paragraphs to show you are covering every key area and make sure your intro and conclusion are solid, ie they tell the examiner what you are going to do in the answer they aren't just waffle.
As a lecturer I used to have said you need to bully the examiner into giving you marks by slapping them in the face with what you know.

I understand what you’re saying but this is why I felt compelled to post what I did a few pages back...

The issue is that I ticked all of the above requirements and more! And I made a point of doing so.

Firstly, my handwriting is extremely neat, I had my headings, highlighted my case names, kept my sentences concise and to the point, I thankfully was able to recall every relevant case I had learned and was able to apply same when needed. Everything went perfectly - I was smiling coming out of the Property exam.

My issue is that despite doing all of the above, I still failed the exam! Why? Nobody knows. There’s no marking scheme, breakdown of marks or feedback as to what I did wrong.

I absolutely maintain that I did not fail this exam. I know I didn’t.

It therefore seems that regardless of how accurate your answers are or how many hours of study you put in, you are still subject to some bullsh*t “bell curve” because only a given number of candidates are allowed to pass!

This is a common complaint and I know there are many others on this website alone, who feel the same way. And as you will see from the reports I previously linked, this has been identified as a major concern!

Reya10

Tony_TwoLegs wrote: »

I suppose if you're a non-law graduate you'll be somewhat handicapped as the material is foreign to you.
Studying for the BCL helped me pass all three on my first sit. That said, I scrapped by with bare 50 ish %s.
E.g. 52 in one subject. The same Examinet taught me the subject the previous year in a NUI and awarded me 66 in the same subject there. Go figure that one out!?

I would say that's because they are a much higher standard than college exams. The examiner is looking for a lot more from FE1 students. Even just the volume of material- in college you can get often get away with studying only 5 topics or so and there is no chance of that for the FE1s. Even if you did really well in your law degree- like a lot of people here- there is a lot more to study for these exams and in my experience you have to learn topics you didn't even touch on in college lectures. Being a law graduate is definitely an advantage but the FE1s are a whole different beast!

Yohnathan

Kyree Bumpy Shrimp wrote: »

I understand what you’re saying but this is why I felt compelled to post what I did a few pages back...

The issue is that I ticked all of the above requirements and more! And I made a point of doing so.

Firstly, my handwriting is extremely neat, I had my headings, highlighted my case names, kept my sentences concise and to the point, I thankfully was able to recall every relevant case I had learned and was able to apply same when needed. Everything went perfectly - I was smiling coming out of the Property exam.

My issue is that despite doing all of the above, I still failed the exam! Why? Nobody knows. There’s no marking scheme, breakdown of marks or feedback as to what I did wrong.

I absolutely maintain that I did not fail this exam. I know I didn’t.

It therefore seems that regardless of how accurate your answers are or how many hours of study you put in, you are still subject to some bullsh*t “bell curve” because only a given number of candidates are allowed to pass!

This is a common complaint and I know there are many others on this website alone, who feel the same way. And as you will see from the reports I previously linked, this has been identified as a major concern!

I don't think the bell curve is massively in play for property. The average is the high 70s over the last 3 years they have given the results.
Is it possible that you completely misunderstood a question? I know that had happened me in FE-1s in the past. From the grind schools, I have learned that people go completely off topic from certain trigger words and thus fail based on one question being completely off.
My recollection of Property (I had passed it 3 times in my attempts for the magic three) was that you just need to nail the succession questions. 2 good questions then and one semi good at the end. You need to apply the legislation aswel instead of just referencing it.

z6vm1dobfnca3x

Yohnathan wrote: »

I don't think the bell curve is massively in play for property. The average is the high 70s over the last 3 years they have given the results.
Is it possible that you completely misunderstood a question? I know that had happened me in FE-1s in the past. From the grind schools, I have learned that people go completely off topic from certain trigger words and thus fail based on one question being completely off.
My recollection of Property (I had passed it 3 times in my attempts for the magic three) was that you just need to nail the succession questions. 2 good questions then and one semi good at the end. You need to apply the legislation aswel instead of just referencing it.

I took photos of my script at the viewing and looked at the exam paper afterwards. I don’t appear to have misunderstood any questions.

Of course, I am not saying that my paper was perfect. And I definitely did not deserve a grade in the 70s. But I certainly feel I deserved a grade of at least 60.

Again, this is why feedback, or even some check marks or X marks on the script would let candidates know where they went wrong.

Reya10

Kyree Bumpy Shrimp wrote: »

I took photos of my script at the viewing and looked at the exam paper afterwards. I don’t appear to have misunderstood any questions.

Of course, I am not saying that my paper was perfect. And I definitely did not deserve a grade in the 70s. But I certainly feel I deserved a grade of at least 60.

Again, this is why feedback, or even some check marks or X marks on the script would let candidates know where they went wrong.

In relation to comments/check marks on the script- some examiners just don't mark this way. I've had conversations with lecturers about my exams/essays in the past and got the impression that since law can be very subjective and they are experts in the field they are generally able to decide on a grade after an initial read through and overall impression of the answer. This is especially the case for essay-based questions.

I know that's not helpful for us going to view scripts but it doesn't necessarily mean your paper wasn't read properly. But if you feel strongly that you did a good exam I'd say definitely go for a recheck! Maybe you know someone who is good at that subject or a lecturer who could look over the paper for you for a second opinion?

leavingcert17

Hi I’m selling tort contract and criminal law manuals from law school that are from March/spring paper 2019. Message me for more info. I passed with these and got the magic 3!

Mod
Sorry, trading thru this forum not allowed (apart from exam grids)

Freckley201

I put in for a recheck on Tuesday but havent heard anything back yet, does anyone know if they generally email you to confirm the recheck request or any acknowledgement?

Supermax1988

Freckley201 wrote: »

I put in for a recheck on Tuesday but havent heard anything back yet, does anyone know if they generally email you to confirm the recheck request or any acknowledgement?

I think they usually wait until after the deadline has passed before acknowledging receipt. You might have to call them though. Quickest was is to check your bank account - has the cheque/bank draft cleared? If so, you're good to go.

Daly29

Tony_TwoLegs wrote: »

I've passed the FE1s (after much heartache) which is quite ironic I'm going to Kings Inns now instead. Anyways, I rechecked on 2 occasions on my FE1 Odyssey and regretted wasting 115 a pop. I'm not saying that to discourage you though, I'm saying it to be careful giving them ANOTHER 345 euro!!
The recheck isn't a re-grading. It's a calculator task which they feel they can fleece people for. Out if interest what exams were they?

Kyree Bumpy Shrimp wrote: »

I took photos of my script at the viewing and looked at the exam paper afterwards. I don’t appear to have misunderstood any questions.

Of course, I am not saying that my paper was perfect. And I definitely did not deserve a grade in the 70s. But I certainly feel I deserved a grade of at least 60.

Again, this is why feedback, or even some check marks or X marks on the script would let candidates know where they went wrong.

Just to add my two cents on this. I'm not one to buy into conspiracies and would think that we are all judged similarly (even if that judging is very strict) however regarding my Property exam. I predicted the exact type of qs and they weren't particularly difficult. I remembered exactly based on very good notes (pretty sure they were decent). I used the cases that the examiner quoted in the examiner reports. He seemed to favour certain cases in certain areas so said I'd give him back those. I looked at what the Law Reform Commission had said on some areas, quoted this. Couldn't have gone better. Put down my pen feeling it was one of the best exams I have done. Got 50.

I was pretty surprised. I really don't think I missed anything or got anything confused.

Anyway, thought it was strange mark. Not saying they kept my mark low to keep to an average just that it seemed off.

z6vm1dobfnca3x

Tony_TwoLegs wrote: »

It's a calculator task which they feel they can fleece people for

In defence of the Law Society, this in not true. I contacted them earlier this week, having heard this rumour a number of times.

They confirmed that the recheck will involve the paper being sent to an external examiner who will re-grade the paper. They specifically stated it is not a re-calculation of marks previously given.

Daly29 wrote: »

Just to add my two cents on this. I'm not one to buy into conspiracies and would think that we are all judged similarly (even if that judging is very strict) however regarding my Property exam. I predicted the exact type of qs and they weren't particularly difficult. I remembered exactly based on very good notes (pretty sure they were decent). I used the cases that the examiner quoted in the examiner reports. He seemed to favour certain cases in certain areas so said I'd give him back those. I looked at what the Law Reform Commission had said on some areas, quoted this. Couldn't have gone better. Put down my pen feeling it was one of the best exams I have done. Got 50.

I was pretty surprised. I really don't think I missed anything or got anything confused.

Anyway, thought it was strange mark. Not saying they kept my mark low to keep to an average just that it seemed off.

Thanks for your comment. Seems to be a pretty common complaint with property law this year.

I went for the recheck anyway. Worth taking the chance in my opinion.

Yohnathan

Apologies for asking this question on this thread but the PPC thread is pretty empty and I figure some people who have finished might still be notified of this thread.

Has anyone received a trainee application pack from the Law Society? The Website is not as helpful and they told me that the pack is in the post. But I need some information for a meeting with my boss in the morning.

Tony_TwoLegs

Yohnathan wrote: »

Apologies for asking this question on this thread but the PPC thread is pretty empty and I figure some people who have finished might still be notified of this thread.

Has anyone received a trainee application pack from the Law Society? The Website is not as helpful and they told me that the pack is in the post. But I need some information for a meeting with my boss in the morning.

The pack has a contract/other form you get your training solicitor to sign, a declaration you fill in, and asks for your birth cert, certified copy of your degree, letter confirming fe1s passed, 2 references, a life history too basically, and a bill for €840 to APPLY to the PPC1.

Supermax1988

Tony_TwoLegs wrote: »

and a bill for €840 to APPLY to the PPC1.

Sorry, just on this and forgive my ignorance, but how many do they take in each year? Do they really refuse some people entry and pocket €840?!

lawless11

Tony_TwoLegs wrote: »

The pack has a contract/other form you get your training solicitor to sign, a declaration you fill in, and asks for your birth cert, certified copy of your degree, letter confirming fe1s passed, 2 references, a life history too basically, and a bill for €840 to APPLY to the PPC1.

Jumping on the question train - do you know how there is only 4 fields for the employment history... How does one do with more than 4 previous positions?

randomrb

lawless11 wrote: »

Jumping on the question train - do you know how there is only 4 fields for the employment history... How does one do with more than 4 previous positions?

You just put the 4 most recent.

randomrb

Supermax1988 wrote: »

Sorry, just on this and forgive my ignorance, but how many do they take in each year? Do they really refuse some people entry and pocket €840?!

I havent heard of them refusing anyone, there is no set number each year but its better to get it in early

Tony_TwoLegs

Supermax1988 wrote: »

Sorry, just on this and forgive my ignorance, but how many do they take in each year? Do they really refuse some people entry and pocket €840?!

I think it's unlimited, but around 500 a year are graduating. My point was that it's a lot of cash just to process a few forms.
Maybe they've an A-lister doing it lol

Daly29

Kyree Bumpy Shrimp wrote: »

In defence of the Law Society, this in not true. I contacted them earlier this week, having heard this rumour a number of times.

They confirmed that the recheck will involve the paper being sent to an external examiner who will re-grade the paper. They specifically stated it is not a re-calculation of marks previously given.



Thanks for your comment. Seems to be a pretty common complaint with property law this year.

I went for the recheck anyway. Worth taking the chance in my opinion.

Oh for sure go for it. It wasn’t a hard exam. A rational recheck hopefully overturns. Best of luck!!