FE1 Exam Thread (Read 1st post!) NOTICE: YOU MAY SWAP EXAM GRIDS

graduate555

Law Society report for last year said it's usually around 400 people attend ppc1 (see link below). As for FE1s, they report around 1,000.

https://annualreport.lawsociety.ie/

Tony_TwoLegs

graduate555 wrote: »

Law Society report for last year said it's usually around 400 people attend ppc1 (see link below). As for FE1s, they report around 1,000.

https://annualreport.lawsociety.ie/

Sure the failure rate is huge. In the last sittings approx 1100 people sat any exam (Some 1, some 2.... 3... 4...) But only about 100 passed everything they sat !!!

laurenburne

Tony_TwoLegs wrote: »

Sure the failure rate is huge. In the last sittings approx 1100 people sat any exam (Some 1, some 2.... 3... 4...) But only about 100 passed everything they sat !!!

Would any of you folks want to help me compile a list of things that need to be addressed in relation to these exams?

I was speaking to TD in my area that is willing to look into it. Mainly the huge barrier to entering this profession and the lack of transparency in the grading system. I need to have something together soon so any help would be much appreciated.

I think it deserves to be said

laurenburne

Tony_TwoLegs wrote: »

Sure the failure rate is huge. In the last sittings approx 1100 people sat any exam (Some 1, some 2.... 3... 4...) But only about 100 passed everything they sat !!!

Would any of you folks want to help me compile a list of things that need to be addressed in relation to these exams?

I was speaking to TD in my area that is willing to look into it. Mainly the huge barrier to entering this profession and the lack of transparency in the grading system. I need to have something together soon so any help would be much appreciated.

I think it deserves to be said

smeal

laurenburne wrote: »

Would any of you folks want to help me compile a list of things that need to be addressed in relation to these exams?

I was speaking to TD in my area that is willing to look into it. Mainly the huge barrier to entering this profession and the lack of transparency in the grading system. I need to have something together soon so any help would be much appreciated.

I think it deserves to be said

I definitely would help you contribute! Mainly in relation to the lack of transparency.

claiomh solais

Tony_TwoLegs wrote: »

Sure the failure rate is huge. In the last sittings approx 1100 people sat any exam (Some 1, some 2.... 3... 4...) But only about 100 passed everything they sat !!!

Wait I sat 4 and passed 4 in October are you saying thats only 10% of people? That's crazy altogether. Makes me feel a bit better about only getting 3 of 4 in March anyways!

graduate555

I agree transparency - if you pay 115 to recheck, you should be given a copy of your transcript at the very least. It adds little to nothing to the LSI's workload to organise one day where scripts are viewed, especially for €115 a go.

I also really would like the exams to be more spaced out. I had a 5 hour journey to Dublin between 3 buses and ended up spending 7 nights in a B&B because I just couldn't be making that journey up and down between exams. Cost me almost 350 euro and thats after paying for exams, materials and taking a month unpaid off work to prepare. Either that, or having more exams centres throughout the country would make the process a lot less stressful and more affordable

smeal

I also really would like the exams to be more spaced out. I had a 5 hour journey to Dublin between 3 buses and ended up spending 7 nights in a B&B because I just couldn't be making that journey up and down between exams. Cost me almost 350 euro and thats after paying for exams, materials and taking a month unpaid off work to prepare. Either that, or having more exams centres throughout the country would make the process a lot less stressful and more affordable

I think having an extra sitting each year would help solve this problem. Many people (including myself) would never get a month off work even if it were unpaid. Having them too spaced out would mean that many people would have to return to work in between exams especially if they took a few days off before to study.

20029422

anyone know when the recheck results are out?

Lindyloo 1

20029422 wrote: »

anyone know when the recheck results are out?

Provisional date of 16th June given I think

laurenburne

graduate555 wrote: »

I agree transparency - if you pay 115 to recheck, you should be given a copy of your transcript at the very least. It adds little to nothing to the LSI's workload to organise one day where scripts are viewed, especially for €115 a go.

I also really would like the exams to be more spaced out. I had a 5 hour journey to Dublin between 3 buses and ended up spending 7 nights in a B&B because I just couldn't be making that journey up and down between exams. Cost me almost 350 euro and thats after paying for exams, materials and taking a month unpaid off work to prepare. Either that, or having more exams centres throughout the country would make the process a lot less stressful and more affordable

I agree on transparency too. We really have no idea how each exam is graded. Most people go off what the preparatory courses tell them (for a couple of thousand euros that is because they are desperate to pass) and the law society repeatedly give out about preparatory courses.

Why are we not allowed view out papers?

The recheck is not to check clerical errors so you get to pay for a second opinion...which would mean that they got it wrong in the first instance which isn't good enough considering how much we pay and what is at stake for us.

What if you couldn't afford the recheck (many times I couldnt but felt my result did not reflect my work) if you don't pay for the recheck you "miss out on that chance that they got it wrong and you might go up). When you study for hours of course you think you could go up.

There is now a culture of everyone getting rechecks because the system is flawed. Everyone paying 115 in desperation to pass is in no way ok. It's bizzare in fact.

THEY SHOULD BE CORRECTED RIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!

Since 2007 the numbers of people allowed to to blackhall have dropped by almost 300, does anyone know why this is?

Think of how many graduate from college each year to pursue a career as a solicitor, only 400 in the country get too every year.

It's something undergraduates should be made aware of...the numbers in my opinion to make an informed decision about getting into this farce of a game.

angela1711

Hi,
I am thinking of sitting my first set of Fe1's this October. Are a lot of people doing it without the preparatory course? I feel like its a bit of a waste of money if you already have all the law books, college notes and I am going to make my own notes anyway. Will I be okay with just getting the manuals instead? Also, I am finishing college tomorrow, do you think I have enough time between now and October to prepare myself for 4 exams? On the side note, from your experience how difficult it is to get a trainee contract outside of the big 5?

graduate555

laurenburne wrote: »

Since 2007 the numbers of people allowed to to blackhall have dropped by almost 300, does anyone know why this is?

Think of how many graduate from college each year to pursue a career as a solicitor, only 400 in the country get too every year.

It's something undergraduates should be made aware of...the numbers in my opinion to make an informed decision about getting into this farce of a game.

I think, though i might be wrong, from what I've read that the number going to blackhalls isn't capped at 400 - the drop in numbers is due to the increase in fees & the reluctance of most firms to pay these fees esp since the crash. Still most firms outside of the Big 10 will not pay your fees, and many don't even pay a wage while you are living 6 months in Dublin.

You're right graduates should be informed of the costs involved - I didn't even learn about this til after I graduated!

graduate555

angela1711 wrote: »

Hi,
I am thinking of sitting my first set of Fe1's this October. Are a lot of people doing it without the preparatory course? I feel like its a bit of a waste of money if you already have all the law books, college notes and I am going to make my own notes anyway. Will I be okay with just getting the manuals instead? Also, I am finishing college tomorrow, do you think I have enough time between now and October to prepare myself for 4 exams? On the side note, from your experience how difficult it is to get a trainee contract outside of the big 5?

I initially tried to prepare for the FE1s without the manuals and found it way too time consuming - I doubt I would have passed by doing this. You can get manuals for about half the price of the exams themselves - if you spend your time learning these inside out and back to front, you'll be guaranteed not to need to pay for a repeat exam. What you need is just the basics of absolutely everything, so the textbooks are too much in-depth information to wade through in my opinion.

You have plenty of time to study between now and October. Good luck! ^^

Tony_TwoLegs

laurenburne wrote: »

Would any of you folks want to help me compile a list of things that need to be addressed in relation to these exams?

I was speaking to TD in my area that is willing to look into it. Mainly the huge barrier to entering this profession and the lack of transparency in the grading system. I need to have something together soon so any help would be much appreciated.

I think it deserves to be said

From my Judicial Review days..... I think your TD is well meaning, as are you, but it's not a public body so is not open to outside scrutiny in that regard.

Tony_TwoLegs

Tony_TwoLegs wrote: »

From my Judicial Review days..... I think your TD is well meaning, as are you, but it's not a public body so is not open to outside scrutiny in that regard.

Not to mention FOI being inapplicable.
Not being pessimistic, just pragmatic. Have you failed a few times?

chops018

laurenburne wrote: »

I agree on transparency too. We really have no idea how each exam is graded. Most people go off what the preparatory courses tell them (for a couple of thousand euros that is because they are desperate to pass) and the law society repeatedly give out about preparatory courses.

I just want to address a few of your points, which I will do below. Please note that I do not mean to offend. I used to be a regular poster on this and previous FE1 threads when I completed them. I too found them bizarre at the best of times. I agree on the point of transparency.

Why are we not allowed view out papers?

Of course this will sound smart, but why not call or email the FE1 section of the Law Society and inquire about this? As has been previously said, the Law Society regulate the Solicitor profession in Ireland, and so, they decide how someone enters that profession. No one regulates the Law Society, so people are right to criticise this aspect. Of course, if it is alleged they are doing something illegal, they could still be pursued.

The recheck is not to check clerical errors so you get to pay for a second opinion...which would mean that they got it wrong in the first instance which isn't good enough considering how much we pay and what is at stake for us.

What do you mean by this?

What if you couldn't afford the recheck (many times I couldnt but felt my result did not reflect my work) if you don't pay for the recheck you "miss out on that chance that they got it wrong and you might go up). When you study for hours of course you think you could go up.

Absolutely not the Law Society's fault if you cannot afford a recheck. I am sorry to be blunt on that, and don't mean to be harsh. But that's the reality.

If they were to include an optional recheck in the exam fee, then you'd have everyone who failed automatically avail of this. It wouldn't work in my opinion. Also, they would just jack up the price of the exam fee if they were to include it. So you'd end up paying either way.

By the way, they have an access programme for those who are not doing well financially but want to qualify. This applies to FE1 candidates as far as I know. Links:

https://www.lawsociety.ie/About-Us/Diversity-and-CSR/Access-Programme

https://www.lawsociety.ie/Documents/education/hbs/Law%20Society%20Access%20Programme_Information%20Leaflet.pdf

There is now a culture of everyone getting rechecks because the system is flawed. Everyone paying 115 in desperation to pass is in no way ok. It's bizzare in fact.

THEY SHOULD BE CORRECTED RIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!

In my opinion, I do not believe that to be the case. How many people do you know got rechecks out of the amount of people that sat the exams in the most recent sitting? Without a published report on these figures you won't know. Maybe they are broken down somewhere in the reports released each year of the Law Society's accounts, I don't know, but if you google Law Society Accounts, I think, then they will come up in the search results, if you want to read up on that.

Also, what evidence do you have that they are not corrected right? Again, I do not mean to be harsh, and again I'd like to point out that when I was doing these exams I also found some results strange. Possibly human error in the corrections of some of the papers, I'll agree. But you seem to be making sweeping generalisations.

Since 2007 the numbers of people allowed to to blackhall have dropped by almost 300, does anyone know why this is?

Obviously I cannot say this with surety, but I would assume there is such low figures attending the PPC courses due to the recession and the closure of the Cork facilities for the PPC courses. I doubt there is another conspiracy here to keep the numbers low. In fact, if I know the Law Society, I would assume they would prefer more numbers as they would get more money from the person or their firm for PPC fees and eventually their practising cert and CPD etc. They would prefer more people on the roll as it's more money for them. Leaving the idea of them failing people to keep the numbers down aside, have you ever heard of anyone asking for the indenture pack to be sent out so they can apply to go to PPC1 in September of a certain year only to be told no, that they have filled all the places that year? I haven't anyway. That's not to say that it's not possible of course.

Think of how many graduate from college each year to pursue a career as a solicitor, only 400 in the country get too every year.

I refer to my comment above. I do not think there is a conspiracy theory. They don't control the amount of trainees firms take on, and I think that this is a factor rather than them passing people. You will hear of plenty of people saying they have all the exams, but do not have a training contract in place. Many firms have a certain quota of trainees that they take on each year and this would be why there is a similar number every year in Blackhall on the PPC1 course. Referring to your pre 2007 comment above, that was before the recession, so the big firms probably took on more trainees. There would have also been loads of small firms who had trainees before the recession, who probably still do not take on trainees now even they were are supposedly out of the recession.

It's something undergraduates should be made aware of...the numbers in my opinion to make an informed decision about getting into this farce of a game.

Again I ask why? They do not seem to have a set amount of numbers they take in each year. I would assume if they got an unprecedented number of applications from people looking for the indenture pack to attend PPC1 on a certain year and decided they could not cater for that amount then they would have to set a limit for that year or look at what else could be done. But I have never heard of that happening so why would they need to set a limit or inform people of this when it simply doesn't appear to happen.


Again, I apologise if I seem to be coming across as audacious or rude, as I know how horrible these exams can be. But you do seem to be making generalisations.

laurenburne

Tony_TwoLegs wrote: »

From my Judicial Review days..... I think your TD is well meaning, as are you, but it's not a public body so is not open to outside scrutiny in that regard.

Maybe not. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be said!

Tony_TwoLegs

angela1711 wrote: »

Hi,
I am thinking of sitting my first set of Fe1's this October. Are a lot of people doing it without the preparatory course? I feel like its a bit of a waste of money if you already have all the law books, college notes and I am going to make my own notes anyway. Will I be okay with just getting the manuals instead? Also, I am finishing college tomorrow, do you think I have enough time between now and October to prepare myself for 4 exams? On the side note, from your experience how difficult it is to get a trainee contract outside of the big 5?

I was in your position last year. I find university notes vs manuals (I bought 2) vary alright but if u know your stuff focus on the exam papers/ examiner notes/ Nutshells....

Forget the Big 5. They have about 20-30 positions for 700/800 applicants. They look for 1.1 students with experience (usually).

Outside of that.... perseverance!! Be warned though - unless you pass the 8 in 2 sittings you won't start with any firm until 2019. Not saying that to frighten You, only have a plan B (e.g. Masters)

Tony_TwoLegs

laurenburne wrote: »

Maybe not. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be said!

Not trying to dissuade you if that's your intention but my 'advise' is they aren't open to review in the way you're hoping. I can't see any of the judiciary backing that (.... Max Barrett perhaps lol). P*** off the LS and you could regret that I'd fear.

Yoop_

Tony_TwoLegs wrote: »

Sure the failure rate is huge. In the last sittings approx 1100 people sat any exam (Some 1, some 2.... 3... 4...) But only about 100 passed everything they sat !!!

Where did you get that number, if you don't mind me asking?

Tony_TwoLegs

Yoop_ wrote: »

Where did you get that number, if you don't mind me asking?

Thru a colleague. They're not in the habit of fabricating info so I believe them/their source. Of course, the LS are the only ones who can verify this.

graduate555

Tony_TwoLegs wrote: »

From my Judicial Review days..... I think your TD is well meaning, as are you, but it's not a public body so is not open to outside scrutiny in that regard.

You're right they're not a public body. But they are a body tasked with statutory functions in regulating the profession - so I'm sure there is nothing to prevent more detailed legislation being passed to regulate its exam procedures? That said, I'm sure the woes of law students aren't high on the list of the concerns of the Oireachtas!!

Tony_TwoLegs

graduate555 wrote: »

You're right they're not a public body. But they are a body established by law and tasked with statutory functions in regulating the profession - so I'm sure there is nothing to prevent more detailed legislation being passed to regulate its exam procedures? That said, I'm sure the woes of law students aren't high on the list of the concerns of the Oireachtas!!

A grey area perhaps but in the back of my case law memory ,in Judicial Review, I think this came up before and was thrown out of court. Lest not forget the LS is a business. And, make the rules. I failed exams but a friend passed all 8, no fails. A bit of a slap in face as I was always a solid/high 2.1
I just had accept it. Repeat. Or, did I have to....!!!
Hmmmmm

graduate555

Tony_TwoLegs wrote: »

A grey area perhaps but in the back of my case law memory ,in Judicial Review, I think this came up before and was thrown out of court. Lest not forget the LS is a business. And, make the rules. I failed exams but a friend passed all 8, no fails. A bit of a slap in face as I was always a solid/high 2.1
I just had accept it. Repeat. Or, did I have to....!!!
Hmmmmm

Lol, it would have made a useful thesis topic ^^ Yeah I barely passed them all, and have 1.1 in my degree so its definitely a different standard altogether. As long as you get to blackhalls in the end its all worth it. Good luck!

Tony_TwoLegs

graduate555 wrote: »

Lol, it would have made a useful thesis topic ^^ Yeah I barely passed them all, and have 1.1 in my degree so its definitely a different standard altogether. As long as you get to blackhalls in the end its all worth it. Good luck!

Put it this way - one of the 8 examiners also was my lecturer for the subject. I got a 2.1 in Uni. In FE1 version they graded me a fail.

SwD

Sorry to interrupt.

But I plan on taking my first sitting of FE1s in October.

Would anyone have the more recent manuals for sale?

Ideally looking for European, Constitutional, Property, and Company.

Thanks

Tony_TwoLegs

SwD wrote: »

Sorry to interrupt.

But I plan on taking my first sitting of FE1s in October.

Would anyone have the more recent manuals for sale?

Ideally looking for European, Constitutional, Property, and Company.

Thanks

Constitutional and Company are quite large. Rethink??
Do Criminal maybe instead of one of them?

SwD

I've given it a lot of thought.

I had originally intended to sit contract, tort, equity and criminal, but I'm gonna try get all my heavy hitting done in the first round.

Is that crazy?

Tony_TwoLegs

SwD wrote: »

I've given it a lot of thought.

I had originally intended to sit contract, tort, equity and criminal, but I'm gonna try get all my heavy hitting done in the first round.

Is that crazy?

I'll explain why that's a bad idea.....
You MUST pass 3. So doing the harder subjects handicaps this.
My advice is do 2 hard + 2 easy.
Look at the Oct timetable at end of application form and space them, 2 a week.
Doing the heavier ones could result in 2 fails and back to square 1. I know as I done exactly that!!!!!