Kicking out a lodger, ins and outs

Neon_Lights

Hi,

I currently hold the lease for a house and at the start of the year had agreed, with a current lodger in situ, and had agreed that a friend of his could move in.

I was weary about this but I agreed I would try it out just to get the room let out. My LL had no problems with me subletting.

The guy in question in his first month here:
-Has been glued to the PlayStation 80% of evenings in the shared sitting room
-Lost his keys so friend has to let him in
-Has had friends visit and as of this morning overnight without asking myself.
-Was late with the second month's rent. Still outstanding. Deposit and Rent were provided prior to him moving in.
-Failed to provide documentation required by landlord while giving reasonable notice for this.
-Has not cleaned at all.

I'm not a wet blanket and don't mind people having friends over the odd time, but it's just starting to feel as if it's not my place anymore. I did make the judgement based on the other lodger who I've had no problems with whatsoever. Probably an error of judgment on my part but want to nip it in the bud.

I had discussed the shared space PlayStation stuff and said they can use the room no problem 2 nights a week which was agreed. And they could bring over friends then as well no issue. This has not been adhered to.

I've decided when I return to the property on Sunday that I request the new lodger leaves the house and give him until Friday to find alternative arrangements. The guy is just too irresponsible and I don't want to be dealing with a grown teenager in the Gaf.

I am weary of what the friend does as well, as he's been clean considerate and grand to deal with, but if it's a full clear out so be it.

Just puttin my thoughts out there, if anyone has an alternative angle. Also any advice on how to go about it would be appreciated as it's the first time I've had to kick someone out

Cuddlesworth

Does he pay rent to you or the landlord?

Neon_Lights

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Does he pay rent to you or the landlord?

Pays rent to me, I pay the rent for the whole property

Cuddlesworth

Then he is a licensee, basically has no rights and is behind on his rent. Feel free to turf him and his crap out whenever you want.

Samuel T. Cogley

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Then he is a licensee, basically has no rights and is behind on his rent. Feel free to turf him and his crap out whenever you want.

This is not the case. He's entitled to reasonable notice. That's almost completely unenforceable but don't just dump his stuff out, give him a couple of days to move, ideally two days you're there.

Samuel T. Cogley

Neon_Lights wrote: »

Pays rent to me, I pay the rent for the whole property

To confirm you're the only one on the lease and have an agreement to sublet with your LL? You don't just act as someone collecting the rent?

Neon_Lights

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

To confirm you're the only one on the lease and have an agreement to sublet with your LL? You don't just act as someone collecting the rent?

Yes am sole holder of the lease,

endacl

Neon_Lights wrote: »

Yes am sole holder of the lease,

Your house, your rules then. Fire ahead!

Samuel T. Cogley

Neon_Lights wrote: »

Yes am sole holder of the lease,

Licensees are entitled to reasonable notice. No one is going to force you to live with the guy but if he comes home and finds his stuff in the drive damaged or missing he can easily take a case against you using the small claims procedure.

It's also, obviously, not very nice and in my view wholly inappropriate where they guy is not violent or anti-social. To be fair to the person suggesting you can just boot someone out I think they were just voicing a commonly held misconception and weren't suggesting you actually do it. (I hope anyway :pac:)

Neon_Lights

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Licensees are entitled to reasonable notice. No one is going to force you to live with the guy but if he comes home and finds his stuff in the drive damaged or missing he can easily take a case against you using the small claims procedure.

It's also, obviously, not very nice and in my view wholly inappropriate where they guy is not violent or anti-social. To be fair to the person suggesting you can just boot someone out I think they were just voicing a commonly held misconception and weren't suggesting you actually do it. (I hope anyway :pac:)

To be honest I was just going to tell him it's not working out, give him a few days to sort out an arrangement, deadline by Friday say and bon voyage then.

However much more he wants to probe into detail he can but non confrontational really from my side.

Samuel T. Cogley

Neon_Lights wrote: »

To be honest I was just going to tell him it's not working out, give him a few days to sort out an arrangement, deadline by Friday say and bon voyage then.

However much more he wants to probe into detail he can but non confrontational really from my side.

That's all you need to, he's no right to know why and you've no justification to give, just give him a couple of days - I wouldn't leave the place until he''s out but that's maybe me being paranoid.

Neon_Lights

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

That's all you need to, he's no right to know why and you've no justification to give, just give him a couple of days - I wouldn't leave the place until he''s out but that's maybe me being paranoid.

Well I do have to work, but so does he apparently. Will lock all valuables away just in case, I don't think the guy wants a record for criminal damage. I think I'll also specify that he can't return to the property as his friend (may) still be living here

Samuel T. Cogley

Neon_Lights wrote: »

Well I do have to work, but so does he apparently. Will lock all valuables away just in case, I don't think the guy wants a record for criminal damage. I think I'll also specify that he can't return to the property as his friend (may) still be living here

Might be worth doing it over a weekend/RDO's for you. But you're obviously best placed to decide what he's likely to do.

A couple of things have given me pause for though though, why is the LL looking for documentation and why the uncertainty over his friend*? If the LL is the one finding tenants you might want to be a bit careful these lads don't try an assert a lease. It's not a simple paperwork exercise I'm afraid, the surrounding facts would be looked at.

*Fair enough he might just no like his mate being kicked out.

Neon_Lights

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Might be worth doing it over a weekend/RDO's for you. But you're obviously best placed to decide what he's likely to do.

A couple of things have given me pause for though though, why is the LL looking for documentation and why the uncertainty over his friend*? If the LL is the one finding tenants you might want to be a bit careful these lads don't try an assert a lease. It's not a simple paperwork exercise I'm afraid, the surrounding facts would be looked at.

*Fair enough he might just no like his mate being kicked out.

Okay so, kind of bizzare, maybe not so much, but property is owned by a company, and an agency is managing it on behalf of the company, acting as a landlord. This is stipulated on the lease. They gave me an option when a person on the original lease(along with myself)moved out, for me to have a new joint lease, or for me to carry on as sole leasee of the property and to sublet if I wanted. (I picked to be sole holder).

So if anybody is subletting the rooms, the agency have requested that their documentation is provided so they have a record of who is in the house. I have informed each person subletting that this is the case.

i.e. the person subletting is under no illusion that they are just subletting, and are not a party to the lease

Cuddlesworth

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Licensees are entitled to reasonable notice. No one is going to force you to live with the guy but if he comes home and finds his stuff in the drive damaged or missing he can easily take a case against you using the small claims procedure.

He isn't entitled to anything.

Yes he could try log a small claims court case but he is behind on his rent, does not follow any house rules or clean up after himself and if the OP felt that he could get violent in his apartment for being asked to leave, any argument for reasonable notice goes out the window.

Samuel T. Cogley

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

He isn't entitled to anything.

Yes he could try log a small claims court case but he is behind on his rent, does not follow any house rules or clean up after himself and if the OP felt that he could get violent in his apartment for being asked to leave, any argument for reasonable notice goes out the window.

He's entitled to reasonable notice, it's the common law position and it's never been overridden. It's can't be because there will always be a need for reasonable notice in licensee situations for common sense reasons.

As discussed here and in LD previously no one is going to force a 'LL' to live with the 'tenant' and no one has a clue what reasonable notice is and it would be nigh on impossible to claim for it, in of itself. But they could easily claim for damage to possessions if one was unreasonable enough to put them out without giving reasonable notice. The notion that someone might do something would not be a defence.

Nomis21

I've been in this position a few times the same as the OP. Most of my life I have rented a house and sub let or I owned my own house and rented rooms.

Allowing friends of people already in the property to stay is a big 'no no' but that's not the point, the guy is there and its obvious he needs to go.

What I suggest is that he goes immediately because letting him stay even for a short time is likely to cause problems by his continued presence. What you need to do is make it easier for him to go. Offer him transport in your own vehicle to wherever he needs to go or pay his taxi fare and make it clear that offer is only on the table right now. Even offer a small amount of money if necessary.

If he stays, even for one more day, then the relationship with other subletters could deteriorate drastically.

Neon_Lights

Have followed through with this, the guy pleaded for me to reconsider, i said ill have a think about it. My gut feeling still says no though.

Apparently, he had a friend stay over the weekend while I wasn't there.

"How was I supposed to know, to ask permission?" and "It was awful what I was doing"

Lets be honest, I don't have a list of official rules detailing what a licensee can and can't do. (Probably should take note for future reference)

Neon_Lights

Neon_Lights wrote: »

Have followed through with this, the guy pleaded for me to reconsider, i said ill have a think about it. My gut feeling still says no though.

Apparently, he had a friend stay over the weekend while I wasn't there.

"How was I supposed to know, to ask permission?" and "It was awful what I was doing"

Lets be honest, I don't have a list of official rules detailing what a licensee can and can't do. (Probably should take note for future reference)

You shouldn't have said you would think about it. You need to be decisive and tell him he is gone simple as that. Also tell him not to waste his breath with nonsense like "it's awful what you are doing".

hytrogen

Nomis21 wrote:

What I suggest is that he goes immediately because letting him stay even for a short time is likely to cause problems by his continued presence. What you need to do is make it easier for him to go. Offer him transport in your own vehicle to wherever he needs to go or pay his taxi fare and make it clear that offer is only on the table right now. Even offer a small amount of money if necessary.

Zero quarter, even this is being too generous and leaving you open to abuse and potential mooching extra time and twisting your arm. Friday is as generous as anyone would give in your predicament OP, Best of luck!

Samuel T. Cogley

Aye, follow through OP - as hard as it is. The relationship has broken down as it were. People don't change.

jimmycrackcorm

Neon_Lights wrote:

"How was I supposed to know, to ask permission?" and "It was awful what I was doing"

He obviously doesn't have any basic cop on. Best thing you can do is get him out. He'll learn not to take the piss in the next place otherwise he'll know he can manipulate you for any other incidents if you let him stay.

If he wants to have friends over and dodo whatever he wants then he should rent his own place and pay for the privilege.