Rack Pulls

f140

See the younger lads all doing heavy rack pulls now rather than deadlifts. Is there much difference between a rack pull and a deadlift?

Alf Veedersane

f140 wrote: »

See the younger lads all doing heavy rack pulls now rather than deadlifts. Is there much difference between a rack pull and a deadlift?

They're doing it for traps because Rob Lipsett.

And yes, there is. But the rack pull can be a decent accessory to the deadlift in some circumstances.

MightyMandarin

f140 wrote: »

See the younger lads all doing heavy rack pulls now rather than deadlifts. Is there much difference between a rack pull and a deadlift?

Easier to do, due to reduced ROM. Like Block Pulls, they're a good accessory to focus on lockout, and work on back strength primarily.

Main reason most young lads are doing them is for the 'aul ego though imo.

Mr. CooL ICE

MightyMandarin wrote: »

they're a good accessory to focus on lockout

Just on this point; if Hanley was here, he'd come down on you like a ton of bricks for this one.

If you find yourself in the position that you can't lock out, it's likely that you lost tightness due to a bad setup. Rack pulls are an accessory that assume you are in a good position off the floor. If you're not in a good position off the floor, you're not locking out. If anything, deficit deadlifts are better for lockout than rack pulls.

MightyMandarin

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

Just on this point; if Hanley was here, he'd come down on you like a ton of bricks for this one.

If you find yourself in the position that you can't lock out, it's likely that you lost tightness due to a bad setup. Rack pulls are an accessory that assume you are in a good position off the floor. If you're not in a good position off the floor, you're not locking out. If anything, deficit deadlifts are better for lockout than rack pulls.

Well I don't do them as I don't specifically train for my deadlift; deadlifts are just an acessory for me. That said, you're right, if your back is tight off the floor, lockout should always be easy- at least easier than the first section of the pull.

While I don't advocate it or recommend it though, there's many good powerlifters who don't pull this way though, and find themselves struggling with lockout so they just train it as an accessory.

I still think it's a decent exercise for focusing on back strength specifically, although it's not to be prioritised over deadlifts imo.

Alf Veedersane

MightyMandarin wrote: »

While I don't advocate it or recommend it though, there's many good powerlifters who don't pull this way though, and find themselves struggling with lockout so they just train it as an accessory.

The problem in that instance is a lot of people that use it to train lockout are setting up differently to how they would be at that point in their deadlift so there isn't much carryover.

Decent exercise, I'd just question their use by a lot of people for lockout.

Brian?

Rack pulls with a shrug are great. But they're great as a deadlift accessory or trap exercise. You can't replace deadlifts with them.

ThunbergsAreGo

I have/had a slipped disc, so was told by my physio to rack pull instead of deadlifting

Trying to slowly lower the "rack" at the moment

MightyMandarin

naughtb4 wrote: »

I have/had a slipped disc, so was told by my physio to rack pull instead of deadlifting

What's the logic behind this?

Wouldn't the back still come under considerable strain from rack pulls, aswell as deadlifts? Most people's weakest position is straight off the floor keeping a neutral spine, so would it not be best to strengthen that primarily?

ThunbergsAreGo

MightyMandarin wrote: »

What's the logic behind this?

Wouldn't the back still come under considerable strain from rack pulls, aswell as deadlifts? Most people's weakest position is straight off the floor keeping a neutral spine, so would it not be best to strengthen that primarily?

I also have shocking flexibility Would struggle to keep a neutral spine

MightyMandarin

naughtb4 wrote: »

I also have shocking flexibility Would struggle to keep a neutral spine

It has little to do with flexibility though, rather positional awareness and strength. The deadlift is the most natural exercise for humans, along with the squat. Anytime you lift something from the floor, you're essentially deadlifting, so refraining from doing it is a bad idea, since people do it almost every day.

I've tried teaching someone to deadlift who had absolutely zero positional awareness and very little strength, and the only thing that worked was sticking on 10kg a side and just practicing rep after rep until it clicked for them. Doing really slow pulls, aswell as pauses throughout the lift worked wonders.

I would ask your physio what he thinks about working on your positional strength.

j@utis

Would you do rack pulls on your deadlift day or on separate day? I'm thinking to do Hanleys's "get strong fast for 247€" program and trying to pick exercises for deadlift day.

Mellor

MightyMandarin wrote: »

The deadlift is the most natural exercise for humans, along with the squat. Anytime you lift something from the floor, you're essentially deadlifting,
.

That's true, but the other side is that everyone somebody (who doesn't train) lifts something from the floor, they do so with horrible rounded back form.
That is largely a mobility issue. You don't need huge amount of mobility to achieve a deadlift star position. But people are so weak in hip flexion (good position) that spinal flexion (bad position) feels much better.

j@utis wrote: »

Would you do rack pulls on your deadlift day or on separate day? I'm thinking to do Hanleys's "get strong fast for 247€" program and trying to pick exercises for deadlift day.

The only time I did them was instead of deadlifts. But there's no one way to program them.

MightyMandarin

Mellor wrote: »

That's true, but the other side is that everyone somebody who doesn't train deadlifts something from the floor, they do so with horrible rounded back form.
That is largely a mobility issue. You don't need huge amount of mobility to achieve a deadlift star position. But people are so weak in hip flexion (good position) that spinal flexion (bad position) feels much better.

It's not really mobility though, it's positional strength. Mobility is really important for the squat, but for the deadlift, it's pretty basic.

Some people deadlift e.g. 100kg off the floor by yanking it and rounding their back all the way up, and some control the way up keeping their back straight.

Which ones could hold the bar at the knee and pause with e.g. 80kg for several seconds easily while keeping their back straight?

This is why someone, such as that poster, needs to transition from rack pulls to deadlifts imo, as they'll never learn the most basic lift with proper technique and strengthen their back in the most important positions.

Mellor

MightyMandarin wrote: »

It's not really mobility though, it's positional strength

Mobility is basically the strength to achieve a certain position tbh.
I'm not talking about people rounding on the way up. I'm talking about people who can't, or don't, even achieve the position unloaded.

Mobility is really important for the squat, but for the deadlift, it's pretty basic.

I agree that its very basic. Very little hip flexion is need to achieve a good start position. Much less than say what's required to touch your toes say.
But the fact is the average untrained adult when picking some up off the ground will round their back. Even if it weighs only a few grams. It's not that that don't have the strength. They simply default to a bad position. Loading the spine rather than their hips.,

This is why someone, such as that poster, needs to transition from rack pulls to deadlifts imo, as they'll never learn the most basic lift with proper technique and strengthen their back in the most important positions.

Agree. I didn't suggest rack pulls as a solution.

dashoonage

Cant beat a good rack and an auld pull lads.

Mellor

dashoonage wrote: »

Cant beat a good rack and an auld pull lads.

I read that wrong and now I'm picturing you pulling aul lads.

dashoonage

Mellor wrote: »

I read that wrong and now I'm picturing you pulling aul lads.

Whatever youre into yourself hai!

Alf Veedersane

Hanley's email today was on this very thread:

Anyway, here's some thoughts on rack pulls, one of the most misunderstood exercises;

- the only real practical purpose of deadlifting outside of a powerlifting competition is to train, and strengthen, your hip hinge pattern and the muscle that contribute to it

- rack pulls are a great way to strengthen and train your hip hinge pattern if you have an issues preventing you from going all the way to the floor

- if for some reason you cannot perform a full ROM deadlift to the floor, rack pulls are a suitable alternative, but you should be addressing the underlying issue in tandem

- the movement of a rack pull is easier to perform because their is less hinging involved, and the body doesn't have to work as hard to stabilise the lumbopelvic area

- how do you know if you've the requisite flexibility and stability to deadlift off the floor safely? This is the diagnostic test we use, looking for symmetric 2/2s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YhmLE1s188

- rack pulls done above your knee are not a good way to train your deadlift lockout because they're not usually specific to the reason why you're struggiing to lock out your deadlift, which is...

- ....most deadlift problems start off the floor. If your hips shoot up and lower back rounds as you break the bar off the floor, once it gets to your knees your legs will be pretty straight and since the hams and glutes are supposed to straighten the hips, their job is over and it's completely on your lower bakc to finish the lift

- working on improving your position off the floor and learning how to hold position strength TO your knees will do much more for your lockout than a brick ton of rack pulls

- lads love rack pulls because you can load the bar up super heavy and act like your strong

- rack pulls done at the right height (I like anywhere from plates elevated to 2 inches off floor to centre of knee cap) can be a brilliant accessory movement if you perform them with the same positions and intentions as a normal deadlift

- most guys turn above the knee rack pulls into a standing leg press and grip tested, rather than back strength work

- rack pulls are almost always a better option for someone with a history of back injury than any other form of deadlift (when loaded and coached appropriately)

- stop watching your favourite youtube celebrity and looking for training advice, it's like watching Friends for dating advice

I could ramble on all day about when, and when not, to use rack pulls but without seeing you in person or getting to coach you, it's very hard to know what the appropriate variation is.

Long story short;

- if you can't bend over and get close to touching your toes, you probably need to rack pull first while working on core stability, your hinging patterns, general hip health, and possibly your adductors

(don't worry too much about your hamstrings yet - they tend to lock up because all that other stuff above isn't working correctly)

JJayoo

They are brilliant for fcuking up all the bars in the gym, gimps bouncing the weight of the safetys.