"Cycle Support" vehicle

sdanseo

This thread is in motors because I'll be systematically eviscerated if I post it in cycling, and it's written from a driver's POV.

So I had the misfortune of driving through Maynooth earlier and got stuck behind a group of cyclists. No worry, says I, it's Sunday, we'll overtake them eventually. There were probably 30 or 40 bikes in the group.

Then I noticed they were being assisted by a van, fully marked up like a recovery vehicle, with "cycle support" written on it. As we followed, its driver and a cyclist with a Marshal's tabard were actively encouraging motorists to overtake on solid white lines.

I overtook legally, but a number of people overtook me, the van and the group of bikes on a solid white line and on a dangerous bend, because of the driver's waving - all while I was getting ready and indicating to overtake myself. Genuinely thought I was going to be sideswiped, at one point.

This got me to another group up ahead, again supported, this time by a marshal and a 4x4 on northern plates with undercover-style red strobes.

Now, I'm all for keeping the cyclists safe - it's commendable. They have to cycle somewhere and they are entitled to use the road, regardless of how much we might complain as motorists. But this whole incident was ridiculous - this little posse essentially took over the road, caused a huge tailback, openly encouraged dangerous overtaking and almost caused at least one accident - not to mention the clearly illegal lighting. It took the idea of militant cyclists to a whole new level.

Generally speaking, I don't drive in rural Ireland too much. Is this widespread? Do these groups or clubs not have a way of having the Gardaí involved, for events of a certain size?

Cee-Jay-Cee

It is legal to pass on a continuos white line in certain circumstances i.e. Slow moving tractors and cyclists as they are classed as obstructions and you are entitled to drive around them even on a white line so long as there is nothing coming in the opposite direction or your not entering a blind bend and the manoeuvre isn't dangerous to other road users.

The problem is people don't know this and so sit behind very slow moving vehicles or cyclists when it is perfectly legal to pass them if there is nothing coming from the opposite direction.

Eric Cartman

cycling in groups of more than 10 bikes should require the same permit as a slow moving parade would require. Its an obstruction to the road, and these cycling groups are a menace.

Theres one particular group in the Lucan area wearing neon yellow and blue lycra, they are an absolute terror, forever cycling 3 abreast, blocking up roads and making driving around lucan / leixlip very difficult on weekends.

easygoing39

Its a pity the OP does'nt know the rules of the road.You can pass a slow moving vehicle/horse/cyclist on a solid white line.I'd be worried about what other rules of the road the OP does'nt know???

Eric too does'nt seem to know the rules of the road either.Cyclist are allowed to cycle 2 abreast.And I've cycled with a Lucan based club, I'd wager any amount of money that they were'nt 3 abreast as Eric states.I think Eric needs to go the Specsavers or stop driving,as he clearly has trouble observing events on the road.

OldMrBrennan83

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easygoing39

I've done many a race/charity events with lead vehicles with strobe lights and Garda outriders,never have I seen the vehicles pulled over by the Garda outriders.So if the Guards dont have a problem why do you????

hungry hypno toad

Road tax would soften their coughs.

OldMrBrennan83

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punisher5112

I've seen private vehicles doing such with blue lights on the dash but gardai were also in convoy assisting.

People need to realize bikes were there before cars and we all need to share the road as safe as possible.

I have no problems them cycling two a breast but only on suitable roads as it can be very dangerous as people inevitably get impatient which of course is no excuse but its more a safety observation.

jimmycrackcorm

sdanseo wrote: »

Now, I'm all for keeping the cyclists safe - it's commendable. They have to cycle somewhere and they are entitled to use the road, regardless of how much we might complain as motorists. But this whole incident was ridiculous - this little posse essentially took over the road, caused a huge tailback, openly encouraged dangerous overtaking and almost caused at least one accident - not to mention the clearly illegal lighting. It took the idea of militant cyclists to a whole new level.

A girl was killed cycling at the back of a group of cyclists very recently so it would seem to be necessary.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

cycling in groups of more than 10 bikes should require the same permit as a slow moving parade would require. Its an obstruction to the road, and these cycling groups are a menace.

Theres one particular group in the Lucan area wearing neon yellow and blue lycra, they are an absolute terror, forever cycling 3 abreast, blocking up roads and making driving around lucan / leixlip very difficult on weekends.

They shouldn't be cycling more than two abreast but as taxpayers they should be just as entitled to use the read infrastructure as motorists. Most of the people in these groups likely own cars and pay motor tax.

But I can understand the frustration. I'm a commuting cyclist who rarely drives my car as a result but I also found it frustrating when I came across a group on a country road in Donegal where some were cycling on the road centre almost on the opposite side in an effort to keep traffic slow and intimidate overtaking.

Only I had somewhere to get to I would have relished stopping to have a go at their ignorance and to tell them I cycle more km commuting every week than their leisure spin and would never dream of being so ignorant. What they were doing was over the top.

07Lapierre

hungry hypno toad wrote: »

Road tax would soften their coughs.

That didn't take long! What's this "road tax" you speak of? Maybe your talking about Motor tax? Even if you do mean Motor tax, where in the OP's post does the amount of tax paid make any difference???

Fighting Tao

hungry hypno toad wrote: »

Road tax would soften their coughs.

It might soften motorists coughs too if added on top of motor tax.

hungry hypno toad

07Lapierre wrote: »

That didn't take long! What's this "road tax" you speak of? Maybe your talking about Motor tax? Even if you do mean Motor tax, where in the OP's post does the amount of tax paid make any difference???

It is a new tax I am proposing for all road users that would replace 'motor tax'.

Eric Cartman

easygoing39 wrote: »

Its a pity the OP does'nt know the rules of the road.You can pass a slow moving vehicle/horse/cyclist on a solid white line.I'd be worried about what other rules of the road the OP does'nt know???

Eric too does'nt seem to know the rules of the road either.Cyclist are allowed to cycle 2 abreast.And I've cycled with a Lucan based club, I'd wager any amount of money that they were'nt 3 abreast as Eric states.I think Eric needs to go the Specsavers or stop driving,as he clearly has trouble observing events on the road.

http://www.beshoffmotors.ie/viewanad.php?ad_id=1686929&r=%26z%3D-9

give them a shout in the morning, I have footage of it, can post it if you like.

07Lapierre

hungry hypno toad wrote: »

It is a new tax I am proposing for all road users that would replace 'motor tax'.

And?? Again I'll ask...how would this "tax" change anything?

easygoing39

@ Patww79,Im a motorist as well as a cyclist,but the lack of knowledge some motorists have towards the rules of the road and cyclist amazes me.Plus in a incident involving a 80kg cyclist and a motorist in a 1600kg car/2000kg jeep there's only going to be 1 death,and it wont be the motorist!!!

hungry hypno toad

07Lapierre wrote: »

And?? Again I'll ask...how would this "tax" change anything?

Might reduce the number of cyclists on the roads.

punisher5112

hungry hypno toad wrote: »

Might reduce the number of cyclists on the roads.

Having more cyclists is a good thing as it means 1 less motor in the way of you in traffic during your commute.

Jack the Stripper

Eric Cartman wrote: »

cycling in groups of more than 10 bikes should require the same permit as a slow moving parade would require. Its an obstruction to the road, and these cycling groups are a menace.

Theres one particular group in the Lucan area wearing neon yellow and blue lycra, they are an absolute terror, forever cycling 3 abreast, blocking up roads and making driving around lucan / leixlip very difficult on weekends.

I know that group, next to impossible to pass them with the truck especially with this new rule.

Effects

hungry hypno toad wrote: »

Might reduce the number of cyclists on the roads.

Why don't we just increase tax on cars 1000% and everything should be fine.

07Lapierre

hungry hypno toad wrote: »

Might reduce the number of cyclists on the roads.

Again, how would that change the situation described by the op??

hungry hypno toad

07Lapierre wrote: »

Again, how would that change the situation described by the op??

Might have been easier to pass a smaller bunch of cyclists perhaps?

OldMrBrennan83

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jimmycrackcorm

hungry hypno toad wrote: »

It is a new tax I am proposing for all road users that would replace 'motor tax'.

Will this reduce the 800 odd euro I pay on annual motor tax even though I might only drive my car two or three times a month?

Will bus passengers be paying this tax also?

07Lapierre

hungry hypno toad wrote: »

Might have been easier to pass a smaller bunch of cyclists perhaps?

Might have been easier if the op left the house 5 minutes later.
Might have been easier if the cyclist started their cycles 5 minutes earlier
Might have been easier if both parties took a different route!

is it easier to overtake a car paying €170 tax per year than a car that pays €750 per year?..

hungry hypno toad

Effects wrote: »

What don't we just increase tax on cars 1000% and everything should be fine.

Makes sense.

Del2005

easygoing39 wrote: »

Its a pity the OP does'nt know the rules of the road.You can pass a slow moving vehicle/horse/cyclist on a solid white line.I'd be worried about what other rules of the road the OP does'nt know???

Eric too does'nt seem to know the rules of the road either.Cyclist are allowed to cycle 2 abreast.And I've cycled with a Lucan based club, I'd wager any amount of money that they were'nt 3 abreast as Eric states.I think Eric needs to go the Specsavers or stop driving,as he clearly has trouble observing events on the road.

I've passed groups of cyclists around the Wicklow gap riding 3 or more abreast and following groups swinging out to over take without checking for following traffic. They've swung in front of me when I'm overtaking and my motorbike isn't quite.

Eric Cartman

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

+1, especially since a bike is far more manoeuvrable, smaller and has a far shorter stopping distance than a car. All these laws and rants about infantilising cyclists and completely removing any burden of responsibility from them are mental. They have to acknowledge the dangers of their chosen hobby and work around the motorists who are going about their day, not just impede them with laws and rules to suit a niche.

hungry hypno toad

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Will this reduce the 800 odd euro I pay on annual motor tax even though I might only drive my car two or three times a month?

Will bus passengers be paying this tax also?

All road users. Even pensioners.

jimmycrackcorm

hungry hypno toad wrote: »

And one more cyclist breaking lights at pedestrian crossing when I walk through the city centre on my commute. So not a good thing.

Have a look any day of the week on the corner of Westmoreland street and Aston quay at the sheer numbers of pedestrians crossing the road when the lights go green for traffic turning left.

Judging by how often this happens daily, I'd say Dublin bus actually train their drivers to take a wide berth on to the second lane because of the numbers still crossing long after the pedestrian lights go red.

easygoing39

Well Pat,when Im in my 1600kg car I never pull out in front of a 40,000kg artic cause I know I'll be the loser.Same when Im on me bike,I never pull out in front of motorised vehicles.Its just a pity some motorists like to pass me within inch's,any miscalculation by them will result in my death! And all because those motorists wont wait till its safe to pass me.

Tenzor07

sdanseo wrote: »

So I had the misfortune of driving through Maynooth . There were probably 30 or 40 bikes in the group.

Then I noticed they were being assisted by a van, fully marked up like a recovery vehicle, with "cycle support" written on it. As we followed, its driver and a cyclist with a Marshal's tabard were actively encouraging motorists to overtake on solid white lines.


This got me to another group up ahead, again supported, this time by a marshal and a 4x4 on northern plates with undercover-style red strobes.

- this little posse essentially took over the road, caused a huge tailback, openly encouraged dangerous overtaking and almost caused at least one accident -

not to mention the clearly illegal lighting. It took the idea of militant cyclists to a whole new level.

Generally speaking, I don't drive in rural Ireland too much. Is this widespread? Do these groups or clubs not have a way of having the Gardaí involved, for events of a certain size?

Most likely this was the Newbridge GP bike race. Hence the marshals, support van etc.

So hardly "Militant cyclists" as you so impartially put it!? :rolleyes:

And for your further knowledge, the Gardai are aware of this as the organising club would have to consult with them regarding the route and provisions for the event...

hungry hypno toad

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Have a look any day of the week on the corner of Westmoreland street and Aston quay at the sheer numbers of pedestrians crossing the road when the lights go green for traffic turning left.

Judging by how often this happens daily, I'd say Dublin bus actually train their drivers to take a wide berth on to the second lane because of the numbers still crossing long after the pedestrian lights go red.

Relevance?

07Lapierre

hungry hypno toad wrote: »

And one more cyclist breaking lights at pedestrian crossing when I walk through the city centre on my commute. So not a good thing.

How is this relevant to then OP's post?
It's clear your just trolling now and regardless of what reply you get, you just want to rant about cyclists! You don't like cyclists..fine we get it!

please don't mention Helmets, Lights, cycling on the path etc.etc.etc. It's been done to death! We all know some cyclists do these things and motorists break speed limits etc. But that's not what this tread is about.

Fighting Tao

hungry hypno toad wrote: »

Relevance?

I presume as much relevance as "road tax" in this discussion.

07Lapierre

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

It is legal to pass on a continuos white line in certain circumstances i.e. Slow moving tractors and cyclists as they are classed as obstructions and you are entitled to drive around them even on a white line so long as there is nothing coming in the opposite direction or your not entering a blind bend and the manoeuvre isn't dangerous to other road users.

The problem is people don't know this and so sit behind very slow moving vehicles or cyclists when it is perfectly legal to pass them if there is nothing coming from the opposite direction.

+1 happens a lot. An inexperienced motorists that refuses to overtake adds to the problem.

Beer Assistant

That group you came upon escorted by Northern registered vehicles would have been the Maynooth Galway cycle charity group, the vehicles and cycle Marchals are all in communication with each other by way of two way radios, so if the driver/cyclist at the back was waving you through it's because the lead vehicle/cyclist was relaying back to him that the road ahead was clear of traffic and was safe for vehicles to pass.

Unknown Soldier

Beer Assistant wrote: »

That group you came upon escorted by Northern registered vehicles would have been the Maynooth Galway cycle charity group, the vehicles and cycle Marchals are all in communication with each other by way of two way radios, so if the driver/cyclist at the back was waving you through it's because the lead vehicle/cyclist was relaying back to him that the road ahead was clear of traffic and was safe for vehicles to pass.

ohhh look at you with your fancy true facts!

This is a standard cyclist versus motors thread, makeupy generalisations only please!

knucklehead6

i've done support driver for a charity cycle event, and while i wasn't driving a northern reg vehicle i can absolutely assure you that i was at the same carry on as Beer Assistant alludes to, i was in constant communication with the Guy In Back, and where hard shoulders were provided we were in them.

biko

Bunch of offtopic removed.

Stay on the topic - which is road cyclists and support vehicles.
Don't post about cyclists breaking red light in some city centre or what you saw when you were in Holland.

coolbeans

Interesting the way the cyclists on this thread seem to more versed in the rules of the road than some of the motorists on here.

07Lapierre

coolbeans wrote: »

Interesting the way the cyclists on this thread seem to more versed in the rules of the road than some of the motorists on here.

That's because a lot of cyclists are also Motorists...but a lot of motorists are not cyclists.

ThisRegard

OP, the issues you highlighted are all related to other motorists, and you not being aware of when you can cross a solid white line.

This shouldn't be a thread about cyclists.

OldMrBrennan83

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Cee-Jay-Cee

Patww79 wrote: »

And the support vehicle with foreign plates and strobe lighting? Is that all legitimate too or did you just forget about that part?

You're really showing your childish ignorance now! Foreign registered vehicle? Oh you mean the Northern Ireland registered vehicle! Just for your future reference, Northern Ireland cars are legally entitled to drive on the roads in the Republic and red lighting is perfectly legal. You obviously don't drive yourself such is the level of ignorance you've shown so far.

Patww79 wrote: »

Whatever about the white line I want to know how a crew with a foreign vehicle can start directing traffic here, regardless of whether it's for a group of cyclists or not.

<snip> they weren't directing traffic, they were trying to assist traffic to keep it moving. It's not illegal.

Just be honest you hate cyclists and take every opportunity to have a go and then. You've failed spectacularly in this case.

Tenzor07

Patww79 wrote: »

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Who says they were "directing" traffic? Only the Gardai can do that..

It was providing support for the event... most likely a professional company from N.I.

coolbeans

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I'd take that up with the Gardaí instead of using it as an opportunity to eviscerate all cyclists.

OldMrBrennan83

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biko

The people in Cycling forum can probably help best with specifics as they do a lot of road cycling with support vehicles but it's way too late now to move this thread there

BrianD3

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

It is legal to pass on a continuos white line in certain circumstances i.e. Slow moving tractors and cyclists as they are classed as obstructions and you are entitled to drive around them even on a white line so long as there is nothing coming in the opposite direction or your not entering a blind bend and the manoeuvre isn't dangerous to other road users.

The problem is people don't know this and so sit behind very slow moving vehicles or cyclists when it is perfectly legal to pass them if there is nothing coming from the opposite direction.

Link to show that slow moving cyclists and tractors are classed as obstructions and can be passed on a continuous white line? This is clearly stated in the UK Highway Code, mention of pedal cycles, horses and vehicles travelling at <10 mph. I have not seen this stated anywhere in Irish legislation.

knucklehead6

biko wrote: »

The people in Cycling forum can probably help best with specifics as they do a lot of road cycling with support vehicles but it's way too late now to move this thread there

Insert spoon, start stirring!! :D