EV Charger Install

cros13

We've got a bit of a rock and hard place thing going on at the moment with EV chargepoints.

1. ESB grant aid installation of only a 16A untethered chargepoint for buyers of new EVs from Irish dealers only

2. ESBs contractors are quoting unreasonable prices to fit 32A chargepoints instead despite the fact the OEMs charge the same for both 16A and 32A. This is dovetailing with 30kWh+ EVs effectively requiring a 32A chargepoint to complete a charge from empty inside nightsaver hours.

3. "Specialist" chargepoint installers are quoting up to €2.5k for fitting what is effectively just a glorified 32A outdoor socket (RRP €300), a bit of 6sq SWA and usually a 40A C-curve (D curve for a Renault Zoe) MCB or RCBO. Not including any other works required.

4. A lot of the local sparks hear "chargepoint" and seem to think this is some kind of specialist job.

5. Sterling is making imports more attractive, more people are importing and have to find a reasonably priced way to get a chargepoint installed.

Then there are the well founded concerns about exceeding MIC etc. etc.

The current advice on the EV forum is to source the chargepoint online, tell your friendly local REC you want a 32A outdoor socket installed and explain the chargepoint when they come out to scope the job.

goz83

cros13 is spot on. The person I had in mind for the installation is not available for a couple of weeks. So I rang a couple of installers and emailed one of them with what I needed. I told him I was supplying the charger and he was to supply the cable (less than 10m) and priority switch.

The price was quoted is almost €900. Robbery

Risteard81

goz83 wrote: »

cros13 is spot on. The person I had in mind for the installation is not available for a couple of weeks. So I rang a couple of installers and emailed one of them with what I needed. I told him I was supplying the charger and he was to supply the cable (less than 10m) and priority switch.

The price was quoted is almost €900. Robbery

Not really robbery - you are attempting to take all profit out of the job by buying some materials so the price has been adjusted accordingly.

Tuco88

I'd imagine that if you have two showers (a priority/non unit) installed it will get messy. What's the norm.with this situation?

goz83

Risteard81 wrote: »

Not really robbery - you are attempting to take all profit out of the job by buying some materials so the price has been adjusted accordingly.

Are you seriously saying that €900 is an acceptable price to have an external socket/power supply and priority switch installed, where the socket is being supplied? I'm in the wrong trade if so. With every conceivable overhead and tax, there's profit of well over €400 in a job that would take a couple of hours.

goz83

Tuco88 wrote: »

I'd imagine that if you have two showers (a priority/non unit) installed it will get messy. What's the norm.with this situation?

One shower only. When I get a second shower, it won't be an electric shower. Nothing out of the ordinary with the install.

alan4cult

Imagine in about 5-10 years time when people try and charge two cars from one chargepoint and disagreements over who gets to charge their car, inevitably somebody ending up with an unusable car in the morning.

I mean isn't there still a lot to be said for the petrol engine?

goz83

alan4cult wrote: »

Imagine in about 5-10 years time when people try and charge two cars from one chargepoint and disagreements over who gets to charge their car, inevitably somebody ending up with an unusable car in the morning.

I mean isn't there still a lot to be said for the petrol engine?

Would be pretty rare to need to charge every night, but to overcome that, you just pick a suitable charge point. The one I chose has a tethered cable for the 32Amp connection and it also has a standard 13Amp socket, so 2 cars could be plugged in if need be.

There's plenty to be said for the petrol engine alright, especially when you're pumping over €60 a week into it. For me, it just made more sense to lose one of the gas guzzlers and get something that costs less to run.

alan4cult

Yep but the electric will jack it in at about 120 miles, then another run to the charging point.

goz83

alan4cult wrote: »

Yep but the electric will jack it in at about 120 miles, then another run to the charging point.

Take a spin over to the electric vehicles and hybrids sub forum for that conversation. This thread is about the installation (and cost) of getting a charge point installed.

Calahonda52

goz83 wrote: »

Take a spin over to the electric vehicles and hybrids sub forum for that conversation. This thread is about the installation (and cost) of getting a charge point installed.

goz83:
Your response reminds me of some lines from Thomas Grey's wonderful ELEGY WRITTEN IN
A COUNTRY CHURCH-YARD
"Full many a gem of purest ray serene
The dark unfathom'd caves of ocean bear:
Full many a flower is born to blush unseen,
And waste its sweetness on the desert air."

http://www.blupete.com/Literature/Poetry/Elegy.htm

As for the post that gave rise too it: perhaps:

"The boast of heraldry, the pomp of power,
And all that beauty, all that wealth e'er gave,
Awaits alike th' inevitable hour:-
The paths of glory lead but to the grave."

cros13

alan4cult wrote: »

Imagine in about 5-10 years time when people try and charge two cars from one chargepoint and disagreements over who gets to charge their car, inevitably somebody ending up with an unusable car in the morning.

For that situation you use two load sharing chargepoints. The chargepoints split the available load. Load sharing is a pretty normal feature on a lot of mid-range (€450) to high-end chargepoints. You can also hook them to a building energy management system, follow local microgeneration production or use weather forecasting to predict energy pricing or local production.

Tesla's Wall Connector (€450-€500 | works with any vehicle using the european standard type 2 plug (except the Zoe)) allows daisychaining up to four chargepoints with comms over simple bell wire between the chargepoints. You set the current to be divvied up between them on a rotary dip switch on the master (or set them all to slave mode and have your home energy management system tell the chargepoints what to draw over RS485).

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/support/load-sharing-tesla-wall-connector?redirect=no

BMW is launching their 2nd generation smart chargers this month ( €600 -€1000 | the first gen launched in 2013 and has a similar featureset delivered via an app and LCD at the chargepoint)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBX6NWUW0Xk

There are 7 EVs now in my extended family... I've got plenty of easy solutions for multi-EV charging.

goz83 wrote: »

Are you seriously saying that €900 is an acceptable price to have an external socket/power supply and priority switch installed, where the socket is being supplied? I'm in the wrong trade if so. With every conceivable overhead and tax, there's profit of well over €400 in a job that would take a couple of hours.

I paid €100 for my last RECI, in my case the it was just popping in the MCB (Rolec, built-in RCBO) and wiring in the chargepoint. 10 minute job. I'd already disconnected and thrown the electric shower in the WEEE.

Risteard81

goz83 wrote: »

Risteard81 wrote: »

Not really robbery - you are attempting to take all profit out of the job by buying some materials so the price has been adjusted accordingly.

Are you seriously saying that €900 is an acceptable price to have an external socket/power supply and priority switch installed, where the socket is being supplied? I'm in the wrong trade if so. With every conceivable overhead and tax, there's profit of well over €400 in a job that would take a couple of hours.

What I actually said was that by you supplying some of the materials and attempting to reduce the profit for the Electrician he has duly adjusted the price upwards to penalise you. It's hardly surprising - you were trying to make the job unprofitable and therefore have received a high quote for doing the work.

Bruthal

It wouldnt seem all that unusual for electricians to connect expensive fixed appliances not supplied by themselves.

goz83

Risteard81 wrote: »

What I actually said was that by you supplying some of the materials and attempting to reduce the profit for the Electrician he has duly adjusted the price upwards to penalise you. It's hardly surprising - you were trying to make the job unprofitable and therefore have received a high quote for doing the work.

That's not what you actually said though, is it? And I wouldn't expect someone to work for free either. If a sparks can't make a profit from providing a service, rather than making a large markup on equipment, then he should be doing something else.

You actually said I was "attempting to take all profit out of the job by buying some materials".

This is not the case at all. I was supplying one specific item, primarily so I would get exactly the unit I wanted, rather than wait for an electrician to get the finger out and order the parts for me. I have found that things go more smoothly when I supply the parts....which sometimes is cheaper, sometimes not, but I know what I am getting. I've often done it with car parts...unless the garage had the parts handy, or could get them that day.

I paid over €500 for the charge point. I asked for 10sq armoured cable of up to 10 Metres. I asked for the priority switch to be supplied too. The job should be less than €900 with the equipment supplied by the reci......certainly no more than €1k. The job will take maybe 2 hours with a couple of tea breaks.

The price given has not penalised me at all. Quite the opposite actually. The guy has priced himself out of an easy job.....simple as that. It only took a couple of calls to get a fair quote. The job will be done next week for under €200. This includes disconnecting a feed into a shed, which is to be knocked next week. The priority switch will be covered separately, as I haven't decided what to get yet.

leroypatches

Interesting read! Sorry for reviving an old thread.

Similar the case mentioned briefly earlier - What would need to be done if a house wanted 2x Triton 9Kw showers and a 7.2kW charger.

Is it possible to have a priority switch with one leg to the car and the other leg to the showers (favouring the showers) - then a non-priority switch between the 2 showers?

quietsailor

Check out chargers that have load sensing or it can be called load sharing. THe Zappi brand is the one most often named.

As well as the three cable live, neutral earth wire there will be a second cable which has a sensor on the end.

That sensor clamps around the wire from the meter to the fuse box/distribution board (DB). When the Zappi senses the current going into the DB is too high it lowers the current going to the car, once the current going into the DB falls the Zappi raises the current going to the car.

We've a Zappi installed in our house as we already have two electric showers with a priority switch feeding them. The electrician said two showers plus a car charger would make the priority switching complicated so we went with the Zappi

leroypatches

Thanks a mil.

Am getting other work done and making a plan for down the road so that’s great to know there is a simple solution.

Planning on getting an electrician to lay an armour cable while we dig up the front. Will make sure there’s an extra few cores in the cable.

Thanks.

KCross

leroypatches wrote: »

Planning on getting an electrician to lay an armour cable while we dig up the front. Will make sure there’s an extra few cores in the cable.

The cable will need to be able to support 40A and it needs to be a dedicated circuit, not looped off something else, so I dont think you need extra cores.

The load sensing cable from the Zappi is a twisted pair, not a normal live core, so it will need to be run separately.

Maybe put in ducting now rather than cable? Easy to push a cable through after when you have a charge point.

leroypatches

Ok. That makes sense. Thanks a mil

Sleeper12

leroypatches wrote:

Similar the case mentioned briefly earlier - What would need to be done if a house wanted 2x Triton 9Kw showers and a 7.2kW charger.

You can get triple, quadruple and more priority switches. Regular priority switches are around 120/150 euros. It's been around 5 years since I bought a triple switch and if memory serves the price almost doubles as it can't be bought off the shelf. It's a special order.

HappyAsLarE

Loving all the promotion of RECs. I work as an engineer spec’ing large scale factory fit outs and the amount of shoddy electricians is staggering. Now I don’t want to seem like I’m tarnishing a good tradesman, my father was a sparks, but my god the notion that some registration automatically ensures workmanship is bull.

KCross

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

Loving all the promotion of RECs. I work as an engineer spec’ing large scale factory fit outs and the amount of shoddy electricians is staggering. Now I don’t want to seem like I’m tarnishing a good tradesman, my father was a sparks, but my god the notion that some registration automatically ensures workmanship is bull.

Unfortunately it’s a requirement for getting the grant.

HappyAsLarE

KCross wrote: »

Unfortunately it’s a requirement for getting the grant.

I know that but it is spouted out as a guarantee of quality work and knowledge in this forum.

The harsh reality is that the only sparks I would let near my house are too busy doing industrial work to bother.

2011

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

I know that but it is spouted out as a guarantee of quality work and knowledge in this forum.

Lol :):D

Yes we have had a dose of that here alright

In the past we even have had some suggest that RECI contractors were somehow superior to ECSSA registered contractors as though being registered was some sort of qualification :D:D

Interestingly most of the technical queries asked on this forum that require real understanding are answered by those that are not REC’s

yhejob

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You can get triple, quadruple and more priority switches. Regular priority switches are around 120/150 euros. It's been around 5 years since I bought a triple switch and if memory serves the price almost doubles as it can't be bought off the shelf. It's a special order.

not exactly on topic but i was talking to a rep from a company a few months ago and they said that they were getting new wall mounted ev chargers that used 2 cables a beldon cable for dynamic load management and 6 sq sy cable as this was more practical than prioritizing/priorty switches, not sure if this was from a cost point or ease of install

Twister2

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

I know that but it is spouted out as a guarantee of quality work and knowledge in this forum.

The harsh reality is that the only sparks I would let near my house are too busy doing industrial work to bother.

Its a myth IMO about the industrial sparks

Most knowledgeable ime is the all-rounder with a working knowledge of the rules

Want2know

Can anyone recommend an installer (Dublin Based)?

TIA

2011

Want2know wrote: »

Can anyone recommend an installer (Dublin Based)?

This is basic stuff, any electrical contractor can do this.