Illegal parking in Limerick

kingtut

I have been working in Limerick for the past few months (Monday to Friday) and I often just wander around in the evenings.

I have noticed that people literally park wherever they like (footpaths, double yellow lines, street corners, pedestrian crossings, taxi ranks etc) and so far I have only ever seen one person getting a ticket.

Don't the council (or whoever is responsible care ??)

I spend the weekends in Cork and while there is also a lot of illegal parking (especially after 5pm) it's not to the extent that it is in Limerick.

Cookiemunster

Quite simply it's not policed. All the wardens seem to do is look for cars parked in designated parking zones that have either expired or no parking tickets and the guards don't seem to card about things like the double parking on William St.

When people know they're going to get away with it they'll continue to do it.

kingtut

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Quite simply it's not policed. All the wardens seem to do is look for cars parked in designated parking zones that have either expired or no parking tickets and the guards don't seem to card about things like the double parking on William St.

When people know they're going to get away with it they'll continue to do it.

As I suspected thanks

Tis annoying when the illegally parked cars block half the road though! They'd make a fortune in Limerick if every illegally parked car got a ticket lol

zulutango

People also know they can get away with it because many of our streets are designed such that it's possible to double park for a few minutes without holding up the whole show. Parnell Street and O'Connell Street are good examples. People will stop and put on the hazard lights and expect other cars to drive around them because they know that this can be done. If the lanes for vehicles weren't as wide (Parnell Street), or if we didn't have so many one-way streets with two lanes (O'Connell Street), then this practice wouldn't happen.

As well as this, we live in a very car-dependent city because of the way it has sprawled out in the last 50 years particularly. I would imagine the rate of car ownership in the Metropolitan area is higher than in the other Irish cities. When large amounts of people who are car-dependent want to access a small area (such as the city centre) then parking becomes an issue and illegal parking is more likely.

kingtut

zulutango wrote: »

People will stop and put on the hazard lights and expect other cars to drive around them because they know that this can be done.

In fairness hazards make everything legal :P :cool:

...... or so the muppets who use them in the example you gave think!

Jofspring

A Garda on a bike got a car towed away on Parnell street today that was double parked.

pigtown

zulutango wrote: »

People also know they can get away with it because many of our streets are designed such that it's possible to double park for a few minutes without holding up the whole show. Parnell Street and O'Connell Street are good examples. People will stop and put on the hazard lights and expect other cars to drive around them because they know that this can be done. If the lanes for vehicles weren't as wide (Parnell Street), or if we didn't have so many one-way streets with two lanes (O'Connell Street), then this practice wouldn't happen.

This doesn't explain those people who stop/park on Anne Street or Upper Thomas Street, holding up the whole place.

Kimbot

If you think parking is bad in Limerick you should take a trip to Longford to see how to properly park bad. It wouldnt be uncommon to find cars double parked all along the main street.

zulutango

pigtown wrote: »

This doesn't explain those people who stop/park on Anne Street or Upper Thomas Street, holding up the whole place.

True, it doesn't. You'll always have a certain amount of gob****es no matter how well you design the streets.

phog

The reason people double park is the driver's attitude and the low risk of a penalty.

zulutango

phog wrote: »

The reason people double park is the driver's attitude and the low risk of a penalty.

You don't think there'd be less double parking on Parnell Street if the vehicle lane was narrower?

Cookiemunster

zulutango wrote: »

You don't think there'd be less double parking on Parnell Street if the vehicle lane was narrower?

Has the lane width stopped people double parking on William St?

zulutango

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Has the lane width stopped people double parking on William St?

It's two lanes in one direction. That pretty much facilitates double parking (just like O'Connell Street).

Vanquished

Ah sure if we reduced or narrowed the lanes on Parnell Street. How would the poor lazy, double chinned brigade collect their snackboxes from Luigi's or Rio's?!

zulutango

Vanquished wrote: »

Ah sure if we reduced or narrowed the lanes on Parnell Street. How would the poor lazy, double chinned brigade collect their snackboxes from Luigi's or Rio's?!

Indeed! I wonder how much of the business in the chippers on Parnell Street (and O'Connell Street too) comes from people who walk to the premises and how much is due to those who park (legally or illegally) outside.

Cookiemunster

zulutango wrote: »

It's two lanes in one direction. That pretty much facilitates double parking (just like O'Connell Street).

You honestly thing they wouldn't still double park if it was two way? There almost no risk of sanction so they would continue to do it.

phog

zulutango wrote: »

You don't think there'd be less double parking on Parnell Street if the vehicle lane was narrower?

Well obviously you need a min width to have double parking but I think it happens because drivers are ignorant enough to park there and the cops/wardens generally ignore them.

The council narrowed O'Callaghan Strand near the junction of Sarsfield Bridge and it hasn't reduced the illegal parking.




This is William St, they narrowed that too

zulutango

Cookiemunster wrote: »

You honestly thing they wouldn't still double park if it was two way? There almost no risk of sanction so they would continue to do it.

There'd still be some of it, and there are others factors at play too, but one of the main reasons people double park is that they can justify it on the basis that any cars can simply go around them. That is far less likely on a two way street with narrow lanes for vehicles. The other advantage of narrowing lanes is that you slow traffic right down and make the streets safer for pedestrians and cyclists which is a very good thing to do in a city centre. You can actually do away with the need for cycle lanes if the traffic is slow enough and allocate even more space for pedestrians.

zulutango

Phog, the William Street design facilitates poor parking. It's two lanes in one direction. Drivers happily park in the right hand lane knowing that cars can use the left one.

The poor parking on O'Callaghan Strand is pretty much down to the users of the gym there. This is always in the evenings when there is no enforcement and the drivers know that other cars can get around them easily enough.

I'm not arguing that enforcement isn't required, but street design comes into it in a big way too. I think that's fairly clear.

phog

zulutango wrote: »

There'd still be some of it, and there are others factors at play too, but one of the main reasons people double park is that they can justify it on the basis that any cars can simply go around them. That is far less likely on a two way street with narrow lanes for vehicles. The other advantage of narrowing lanes is that you slow traffic right down and make the streets safer for pedestrians and cyclists which is a very good thing to do in a city centre. You can actually do away with the need for cycle lanes if the traffic is slow enough and allocate even more space for pedestrians.

How do you know this?

phog

zulutango wrote: »

Phog, the William Street design facilitates poor parking. It's two lanes in one direction. Drivers happily park in the right hand lane knowing that cars can use the left one.

The poor parking on O'Callaghan Strand is pretty much down to the users of the gym there. This is always in the evenings when there is no enforcement and the drivers no that other cars can get around them easily enough.

I'm not arguing that enforcement isn't required, but street design comes into it in a big way too. I think that's fairly clear.

No, enforce it, penalise the drivers and it will stop, regardless of flow of traffic or width of street.

zulutango

phog wrote: »

How do you know this?

I've done it lots myself!! Has anyone here not double-parked on any of these streets to rush in to get something in a shop? We know we're causing an inconvenience to other motorists but we also know that they can route around us so we justify it on that basis. The vast majority of us wouldn't do it if we knew we were bringing traffic to a standstill (although some still would).

zulutango

phog wrote: »

No, enforce it, penalise the drivers and it will stop, regardless of flow of traffic or width of street.

An enforcement only approach can only work if you throw a huge amount of money at the problem and have wardens and traffic cops all over the city at all times. Better street design can play a very effective role, cost a lot less and bring a heap of other benefits too.

jsd1004

zulutango wrote: »

An enforcement only approach can only work if you throw a huge amount of money at the problem and have wardens and traffic cops all over the city at all times. Better street design can play a very effective role, cost a lot less and bring a heap of other benefits too.

In other countries (Spain). There is mandatory fines for entering a bus lane or parking on a footpath or prohibited area. It is enforced by camera. No room for discretion. You break the law and you get a fine in the post with a picture, same as speeding fine. And the fine is 200 euro..

seachto7

I found out the hard way in Australia that you can't park your car so that it's pointing "against" the flow of traffic, which is a good idea and should be enforced here.

Saying that, they also fined my mate for pulling up to let me put my bag in his boot. Engine still running, he was in the car. $250 fine.

zulutango

jsd1004 wrote: »

In other countries (Spain). There is mandatory fines for entering a bus lane or parking on a footpath or prohibited area. It is enforced by camera. No room for discretion. You break the law and you get a fine in the post with a picture, same as speeding fine. And the fine is 200 euro..

I agree with all of that. The Spanish are very good at street design too and this plays a significant part in tackling the issue.

OfTheMarsWongs

The one that always amazes me is the cars parked on the double yellow, in the bus lane outside the jail.

I've only seen it on evenings the LCFE have classes.

seachto7

Cars parked illegally at the doors of UL Regional hospital. "Wad ar u gonna do aboud id bud?"

phog

zulutango wrote: »

An enforcement only approach can only work if you throw a huge amount of money at the problem and have wardens and traffic cops all over the city at all times. Better street design can play a very effective role, cost a lot less and bring a heap of other benefits too.

You throw out a whole load of "facts" with very little back up.

I think zero tolerance from wardens and or gardai and it illegal parking would disappear in a few weeks/months.

I've never seen double parking on the Champs Elysees and it's a lot wider than any street in Limerick.

Attitude and policing is the difference.

zulutango

phog wrote: »

You throw out a whole load of "facts" with very little back up.

I think zero tolerance from wardens and or gardai and it illegal parking would disappear in a few weeks/months.

I've never seen double parking on the Champs Elysees and it's a lot wider than any street in Limerick.

Attitude and policing is the difference.

Phog, I can tell you it's a fact that more enforcement costs more money than less enforcement.

And the Champs Elysee point is just silly.

It's ridiculous to say that street design doesn't influence driver behavior.

riverrocked

zulutango wrote: »

I've done it lots myself!! Has anyone here not double-parked on any of these streets to rush in to get something in a shop? We know we're causing an inconvenience to other motorists but we also know that they can route around us so we justify it on that basis. The vast majority of us wouldn't do it if we knew we were bringing traffic to a standstill (although some still would).

I have never double parked on any of these streets. There are plenty of places to park nearby to "rush in". How long is a "rush in"?

Patrick Street outside the Red Hen is awful in the evening and on Sunday for this.

I think if we had a spree over the course of a few weekends/evenings where people were ticketed or their cars were towed then this would decrease drastically. Re-do that once a year (sporadically) and people will be less likely to risk it.

You will always get a few people who think that the rules don't apply to them but they can just keep paying the fines.

It's not that complicated to enforce it.