Meeting with HR - Minutes of meeting

leinster93

A family member called a meeting with their HR Dept due to a grievence situation with their manager that was on going for a long time. As I understand it there was a union rep present and both parties took notes.

My family member asked HR for the minutes of the meeting but was told that there was no agreed minutes of the meeting and they should revert to their union rep who will be able to provide them with a record of the meeting. I would have expected as this was an official meeting, HR would have a documented account of the meeting and provide on request. Is this not the case? I thought it a bit strange

davo10

leinster93 wrote: »

A family member called a meeting with their HR Dept due to a grievence situation with their manager that was on going for a long time. As I understand it there was a union rep present and both parties took notes.

My family member asked HR for the minutes of the meeting but was told that there was no agreed minutes of the meeting and they should revert to their union rep who will be able to provide them with a record of the meeting. I would have expected as this was an official meeting, HR would have a documented account of the meeting and provide on request. Is this not the case? I thought it a bit strange

Why not use the minutes taken by the union rep? Are they not accurate?

leinster93

davo10 wrote: »

Why not use the minutes taken by the union rep? Are they not accurate?

I asked the same question myself. I was told they wanted to see the version of the meeting from HR's point of view and compare it with the union reps. This was as a result of HR being very much in defence of the manager irrespective of blatant evidence of maltreatment by the manager. HR also tried to throw incidences of malpractice back to discredit the family member. Mind boggling.

Dial Hard

If the meeting wasn't officially minuted by an agreed (by all) minute-taker then your family member is essentially asking for people's own notes from the meeting which I'm pretty sure they've no entitlement to.

leinster93

Dial Hard wrote: »

If the meeting wasn't officially minuted by an agreed (by all) minute-taker then your family member is essentially asking for people's own notes from the meeting which I'm pretty sure they've no entitlement

Thanks. Didn't know that. I would have thought that where an official meeting takes place with HR relating to a work issue I would have expected that it would be their responsibility to minute the meeting where the function of HR is to manage staff including Industrial relations etc....hence have minutes officially documented

davo10

The point of having your own witness/minute taker is that you have a record of what was said at the meeting. If the minutes were not agreed, or if they were not recorded by an independent party, I'm not sure either why your family member feels entitled to their minutes.

Love2love

You can however request them under Data Protection. All information held by the company related to you can be requested. You can make an official request quoting the Data Protection Act. They have 40 days to comply. You may charged an administration fee to the organisation for €6.35. Look up Data Protection and you'all get all the relevant information. Anything related to the manager however will be redacted so bare that in mind

_Brian

Love2love wrote: »

You can however request them under Data Protection. All information held by the company related to you can be requested. You can make an official request quoting the Data Protection Act. They have 40 days to comply. You may charged an administration fee to the organisation for €6.35. Look up Data Protection and you'all get all the relevant information. Anything related to the manager however will be redacted so bare that in mind

While this is possible its a sort of nuclear option.
I think an employee doing this will get everyone bent out of shape, is the grievance serious enough to bring a career to a full stop over. Remember even if this person decides to leave they will require a reference of some sorts, burning all bridges won't help that.. Also remember, the union rep will move on with their carer but OP will be left with the fallout for the rest of their time at the company.

Personally I think working with HR would be a better approach to a resolution..

But also remember HR are a function of the very same company the manager works with and if possible they will likely side with the manager unless there has been some serious problems. In companies I've managed in where the company had a HR department it wouldn't be uncommon for the manager and HR rep to sit down in advance and decide on a course of action and how the meeting would progress. Even where there were dedicated employee reps with HR, we would sit with them before an employee meeting and have a general plan on how a meeting would progress..

livedadream

Love2love wrote: »

You can however request them under Data Protection. All information held by the company related to you can be requested. You can make an official request quoting the Data Protection Act. They have 40 days to comply. You may charged an administration fee to the organisation for €6.35. Look up Data Protection and you'all get all the relevant information. Anything related to the manager however will be redacted so bare that in mind

not necessarily, the Hr rep can easily say, these are personal notes, no agreed minutes were taken.
they were discarded after the meeting as the employee had a rep present who took their own notes.

FishOnABike

If there are no official minutes then was there ever oficially any meeting and could any action (however small or big) be taken based on a meeting that oficially never happened and for which there is no official documentation to support any possible action?

Love2love

livedadream wrote: »

not necessarily, the Hr rep can easily say, these are personal notes, no agreed minutes were taken.
they were discarded after the meeting as the employee had a rep present who took their own notes.

Any information held by the company in relation to an employee has to be given. As fish on a bike said, if they are personal notes, If they don't really exist , did the meeting ever officially happen. You are right though that they could have been discarded but again it would mean they cannot be referenced. Personal notes have been used in cases up in the WRC and they will be requested if it ever came to anything. It's best practice to keep notes for the length of time a claim can be made against an organisation.
I would also hope that HR would not use someone making a formal request for their own data as a means pénalise an employee. HR should remain inpartial to all issues and do what is best for the organisation and what is fair to both the employee and the manager.

livedadream

i agree with everything youve said love2love.
but that doenst mean the employee has a right to see them., they could be notes referring to the manager the grievance is about.

_Brian

livedadream wrote: »

i agree with everything youve said love2love.
but that doenst mean the employee has a right to see them., they could be notes referring to the manager the grievance is about.

Technically the HR rep has no "personal notes" as they were there on behalf of the company during a meeting held about company business.
OP is entitled to ALL material that has their name on or there they are mentioned, it would be likely they would however be heavily redacted and of little relevance or use..
It wouldn't be an approach I'd recommend.

livedadream

_Brian wrote: »

livedadream wrote: »

i agree with everything youve said love2love.
but that doenst mean the employee has a right to see them., they could be notes referring to the manager the grievance is about.

Technically the HR rep has no "personal notes" as they were there on behalf of the company during a meeting held about company business.
OP is entitled to ALL material that has their name on or there they are mentioned, it would be likely they would however be heavily redacted and of little relevance or use..
It wouldn't be an approach I'd recommend.

thats a common misconception, if you call me into a meeting and make allegations, yes of course I keep a record of that allegation and that you made that, and you am entitled to keep a copy (most Hr reps worth their salt will give you a copy anyway) BUT you are not entitled to notes about the person you are making the allegations about: ie: if i keep a list during that meeting of previous allegations make by other workers that you then corroborate, that you are not entitled to.
nor are you entitled under freedom of information or data protection to any commentary that i would have made regarding the basis of those allegations or the actions i took regarding them.

screamer

Usually the minutes are just a copy of what was said and usually you would be asked to sign off your statements especially with a grievance. Sounds like sloppy work on behalf of the HR department TBH.