Untethered or tethered

ei9go

About to get a 30A home charging unit.

Do you think I should get tethered or untethered?

Unless, I have this wrong and I could have, the untethered type 2 allows any car to charge wheras the tethered one is car specific.

Just want to future proof as much as possible.

KCross

You'll get 10 replies and 10 different answer to that!

Its a personal decision.

Tethered... .means you dont have to get a cable in/out everytime you want to charge. If you buy a Leaf your tethered charge point will only charge a Leaf as it has a Type 1 connection and other cars(and probably all new cars in future) will have a Type 2 connector.

You can change the lead on a tethered charge point so its not like you'd have to throw it away if you got a Type 2 car in future.


Untethered.... means its just a type 2 socket and you use your own cable and so will work on every car even a leaf. You can leave the cable connected which effectively makes it a tethered charge point.


What car and cables do you already have?

peposhi

I vouch for a tethered.
Even though i have just gotten a standard 30A to replace my 16A tethered one (the plan is to modify the new one so I have a socket as well as а tethered cable all in one unit with a priority switch).

ei9go

KCross wrote: »

You'll get 10 replies and 10 different answer to that!

Its a personal decision.

Tethered... .means you dont have to get a cable in/out everytime you want to charge. If you buy a Leaf your tethered charge point will only charge a Leaf as it has a Type 1 connection and other cars(and probably all new cars in future) will have a Type 2 connector.

You can change the lead on a tethered charge point so its not like you'd have to throw it away if you got a Type 2 car in future.


Untethered.... means its just a type 2 socket and you use your own cable and so will work on every car even a leaf. You can leave the cable connected which effectively makes it a tethered charge point.


What car and cables do you already have?

Have a Zoe and the usual public charger cable

macnab

For future proffing it has to be untethered.

A tethered charger , in your case, means you can only charge cars with type 2 sockets.

Untethered means any car can use your charger.

You could also buy a 2nd cable and leave it plugged in which gives you the best of both.

ei9go

macnab wrote: »

For future proffing it has to be untethered.

A tethered charger , in your case, means you can only charge cars with type 2 sockets.

Untethered means any car can use your charger.

You could also buy a 2nd cable and leave it plugged in which gives you the best of both.

Thanks

That's the reply I was looking for.

Thought that but wanted to check

This seems to be the best price I can find
http://www.ecocars.ie/online-store.php#!/Chargemaster-Untethered-Unit-7kw-30amp/p/69113224/category=0

.

cros13

Since you have a Zoe, the plug would be Type 2. So I'd have no concern about going tethered in terms of future proofing. Your next EV will almost certainly be Type 2.

DrPhilG

I went untethered.

I got the standard cable with my Leaf but I was buying a 10m cable anyway so my original cable stays in the charger all the time meaning there is no faffing around with the cable but I'm future proofed too.

stesaurus

Tethered, you're unlikely to go from a Zoe to a Leaf so you're already future proofed with a type 2 tethered.

ei9go

s.welstead wrote: »

Tethered, you're unlikely to go from a Zoe to a Leaf so you're already future proofed with a type 2 tethered.

But who knows when the EV's have sufficent range to ditch the diesel.

Zoe is a second car so don't really care about the range.

Only used in a 30 mile circle.

slave1

I went untethered, my 32amp charger is now future proof unless the ESB step up their side

peposhi

19 metres DrPhil... Wow, that is some cable you got... nothing wrong with it though, it would of great help some days.

DrPhilG

peposhi wrote: »

19 metres DrPhil... Wow, that is some cable you got... nothing wrong with it though, it would of great help some days.

Lol, typo.

It's 10 metres.

peposhi

I thought so I would have loved to see one of that length ... it will probably take half of the boot

isnottheword

Untethered for me - to avoid additional expenses in the future. Those cables are damned expensive.

unkel

peposhi wrote: »

I thought so I would have loved to see one of that length ... it will probably take half of the boot

You can get 20m cables these days

stesaurus

isnottheword wrote: »

Untethered for me - to avoid additional expenses in the future. Those cables are damned expensive.

He already has a car with the same connection as all future cars will have, type 2. So he would be future proofed with tethered.
Only current Leaf owners with tethered type 1 chargers will need to change.

ei9go

s.welstead wrote: »

He already has a car with the same connection as all future cars will have, type 2. So he would be future proofed with tethered.
Only current Leaf owners with tethered type 1 chargers will need to change.

Does the Hyundai use type 2?

peposhi

Yes, type 2

ei9go

I wonder what the new Leaf will use?

Will they ditch the chademo and Type 1 and move to CCS and type 2 in Europe?

stesaurus

ei9go wrote: »

I wonder what the new Leaf will use?

Will they ditch the chademo and Type 1 and move to CCS and type 2 in Europe?

Pretty sure they will at least in Europe. It's the EU standard now and nearly all other manufacturers have committed to it.

ei9go

Thanks for all the replies.

Have ordered the night and day meter and the untethered unit.

stesaurus

Why untethered in the end?

Shefwedfan

Quick question

Is it only the Leaf that has a different connection? So every other type of electric car has Type 2?

So if you go tethered and use type 2 connection then you are safe unless you buy a Leaf?

cros13

The Type 2 didn't exist until the Leaf was almost on the market and wasn't the European standard until after the Leaf launched. Type 2 CCS for rapid charging didn't exist​ until the Leaf was on the market for over 2 years.

Nissan used the only two standards available... The American J1772 (2009 revision standardised the year before and already a requirement of CARB states in the US. This version of the J1772 standard was an update of J1772 (2001) high used the induction based avcon connector. And for rapid charging Japan's Chademo. When the IEC wrote their standards for EV charging in 2011 Type 1 became the standard for the US and Japan and most of Europe, Africa and Asia went Type 2.

Type 2 is a much more flexible connector:
It supports three phase (J1772 is single phase only)
It supports DC rapid charging up to 90kW (without the CCS pins, which is how Tesla uses just the Type 2 for superchargers)
It has a locking mechanism (J1772 lacked this but it was bodged in later)

In Europe the following cars have J1772:
Nissan Leaf
Mitsubishi Outlander
Mitsubishi iMiEV (and derivatives)
Kia Soul EV
Prius plugin (gen1, gen2 switched to type 2)
Renault Fluence
Renault Kangoo

Almost all of these vehicles were launched before 2011. It's not anticipated that any future vehicle in Europe will use J1772.

Shefwedfan

Thanks Cros13, still very very confused :-)

I have electrician in doing house, will be cheaper if I just get him to install point now and just get him to bundle in with other work

Just wondering if I go for tethered Type 2 will that cover Hyundai etc?

Gumbo

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Thanks Cros13, still very very confused :-)

I have electrician in doing house, will be cheaper if I just get him to install point now and just get him to bundle in with other work

Just wondering if I go for tethered Type 2 will that cover Hyundai etc?

What car have you got now?
I may go untethered 32A and that way you can connect whatever cable you get with whatever car in the future.

slave1

kceire wrote: »

I may go untethered 32A and that way you can connect whatever cable you get with whatever car in the future.

+1, that's my plan, cabling done but no major rush as Granny cable and public charging working perfectly at the minute

Shefwedfan

kceire wrote: »

What car have you got now?
I may go untethered 32A and that way you can connect whatever cable you get with whatever car in the future.

None, just was planning on sticking something in while electrician was onsite

Save me trying to get them back later

Trying to future proof. In the middle of renovating the house so if I put it in now that means when I do buy an electric car I wont have to worry about charge point

isnottheword

Shefwedfan wrote: »

None, just was planning on sticking something in while electrician was onsite

Save me trying to get them back later

Trying to future proof. In the middle of renovating the house so if I put it in now that means when I do buy an electric car I wont have to worry about charge point

Does that mean you're going to rush out and buy a charger at list price? Get the sparks to put wiring in place (to facilitate a 32amp unit). Use the time between now and when you end up buying an ev to source a charger on ebay or speakev classifieds.

Personally, I went untethered 32Amp for future proofing. Some don't like the idea of having to take the cable out each time but it's hardly a major deal.

Calahonda52

Shefwedfan wrote: »

None, just was planning on sticking something in while electrician was onsite

Save me trying to get them back later

Trying to future proof. In the middle of renovating the house so if I put it in now that means when I do buy an electric car I wont have to worry about charge point

Just make sure the cable is sized for 32A, so it depends on the run from the Consumer unit.
Put the 40Amp RCBO on the board now and leave the cable unconnected: if you end up only with 16A charger you can switch out the 40A RCBO for a 20A

KCross

Shefwedfan wrote: »

None, just was planning on sticking something in while electrician was onsite

Save me trying to get them back later

Trying to future proof. In the middle of renovating the house so if I put it in now that means when I do buy an electric car I wont have to worry about charge point

If you dont have one now and you dont know what you will have in the future you should get an untethered.

Alternatively(and what I would do), if you just want to wait and see I'd get the electrician to run the cable only(6sqmm or 10sqmm) from the Consumer unit and the point on the wall you want the EVSE and leave it at that. When you have an EV you can then quickly(less than an hour) connect both ends of that cable and you are up and running without chasing walls etc to get a cable in.


Do you have an electric shower? If yes, you need to talk to your electrician about whether you put in a 16A EVSE or a 32A EVSE with a priority switch on the shower. If you dont have an electric shower then 32A all the way.

slave1

From what I understand if the cable run is 20m or less then 6sq, if it's longer then 10sq.

Shefwedfan

KCross wrote: »

Do you have an electric shower? If yes, you need to talk to your electrician about whether you put in a 16A EVSE or a 32A EVSE with a priority switch on the shower. If you dont have an electric shower then 32A all the way.

Would 3 electric showers count? :P

DrPhilG

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Would 3 electric showers count? :P

You have 3 electric showers?

Holy crap, get the head down before Mad_Lad finds out.

Gumbo

slave1 wrote: »

From what I understand if the cable run is 20m or less then 6sq, if it's longer then 10sq.

These measurements are from the Esb meter yeah,
My home charger will be witching 3 feet of the Esb meter so should be the lower cable. My sparks is not EV clued up so he will just be installing what I tell him to.

BoatMad

tethered ( 5m cable ) 32A EVSE ,

my cost to change to type 2 , 60 euros , and about an hours work crimping in the new cable - future proofed by me !


note you cant fit both cables to one EVSE, unless it specifically supports multiple simultaneous types

ELM327

What is the issue with electric showers?
I have a 32a home charger which I paid for myself (second hand EV not covered by free chargepoint offer) and the installer never told me anything about not running my shower too?

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

What is the issue with electric showers?
I have a 32a home charger which I paid for myself (second hand EV not covered by free chargepoint offer) and the installer never told me anything about not running my shower too?

Do you have a 6.6kW on board charger in the car?

The potential to blow the main fuse is the issue.

Just having the two of them on might not be enough to blow the fuse but if you happen to have some other things on like an oven you could push it over the edge.

Its the same concept as having 2 electric showers. Its "not allowed" to have 2 electric showers on at the same time. You have to put a priority switch in so that only one can run at a time.

A 9kW shower and a 6.6kW car are in the same ballpark in relation to power being drawn. Everything else in the house is <3kW

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

Do you have a 6.6kW on board charger in the car?

The potential to blow the main fuse is the issue.

Just having the two of them on might not be enough to blow the fuse but if you happen to have some other things on like an oven you could push it over the edge.

Its the same concept as having 2 electric showers. Its "not allowed" to have 2 electric showers on at the same time. You have to put a priority switch in so that only one can run at a time.

A 9kW shower and a 6.6kW car are in the same ballpark in relation to power being drawn. Everything else in the house is <3kW

yes I have the 6.6 kW onboard charger.
If the car is taking say 6.6kW , does that mean for the rest of the house I have 6.4 kW available?

I think with a 6.6kW charger the car is not charging when I wake up and use the shower as it is finished a couiple of hours earlier, maybe thats why I have not seen any fuse issue?

unkel

6.6kWh charger plus a single electric shower (10kWh) = 32A + 48A = 80A

Which is far higher than the 63A fuse can handle, even if every other thing in your house is unplugged! ESB not happy if that blows and will force you into an extremely expensive upgrade :eek:

Ditch the crappy electric shower and get a proper one. Or install a priority switch. There. Taking the words out of Mad Lad's mouth

Shefwedfan

Why do you need to go 32A if Electric Ireland recommendation is 16A?

I guess 32A means it charges quicker? but if you are charging over night for potential is 8-10 hours why do you need it quicker?

isnottheword

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Why do you need to go 32A if Electric Ireland recommendation is 16A?

I guess 32A means it charges quicker? but if you are charging over night for potential is 8-10 hours why do you need it quicker?

Future proofing - bigger batteries to come - will take longer to charge. Otherwise, what happens if you want to do a fast turn around - get home on next to nothing left - and stick it on charge. How long are you prepared to wait?

It's a waste of the extra investment and hassle in buying a 6.6 OBC - based Leaf if you're not going to make full utilisation of the feature.

unkel

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Why do you need to go 32A if Electric Ireland recommendation is 16A?

It's not their recommendation, it was the norm when the free charger scheme started years ago. Now pretty much all EVs can charge at 32A so it would be silly being held back for no good reason. Not all that relevant to most people, not to me anyway. I'm spending as little as possible to get my free 16A charger upgraded to 32A. If I even bother.

Now obviously if you had an EV with a 60+ kWh battery, you need 32A charging, otherwise the car won't be full in the morning if you come home late at night...

Calahonda52

unkel wrote: »

I'm spending as little as possible to get my free 16A charger upgraded to 32A.

:D:D Now there is a surprise: I would never have guessed :D:D:D

cros13

It's also the case that with any EV over 30kWh you won't be able to complete charging from empty inside the 9 hours of the nightsaver tariff at 16A.

unkel

Calahonda52 wrote: »

:D:D Now there is a surprise: I would never have guessed :D:D:D

For most EV owners the total cost of ownership is a major factor in buying one. I'm no different and my monthly budget for it is low and has already to cater for my massive depreciation, so nothing left there for fuel, maintenance and luxurious extras like paying for a charging point :pac:

unkel

cros13 wrote: »

It's also the case that with any EV over 30kWh you won't be able to complete charging from empty inside the 9 hours of the nightsaver tariff at 16A.

Well 9 hours times 6.6kW = 60kWh, so any EV quite a bit over 30kWh

Calahonda52

unkel wrote: »

For most EV owners the total cost of ownership is a major factor in buying one. I'm no different and my monthly budget for it is low and has already to cater for my massive depreciation, so nothing left there for fuel, maintenance and luxurious extras like paying for a charging point :pac:

I was pulling you leg... of course I agree with you, its a bit like Tommy Cooper: Its the way you tell'em

cros13

unkel wrote: »

Well 9 hours times 6.6kW = 60kWh, so any EV quite a bit over 30kWh

Hate to point this out... but 16A is 3.68kW not 6.6.... and you have to leave time for ramp up and down and cell balancing.

A 3.3kW 30 kWh Leaf takes just over 9.5 hours to charge from bone dry under ideal conditions. A 6.6kW 30kWh Leaf on a 16A just squeaks in at 9 hours. So.... yup 30kWh is the dividing line.

unkel

I was looking ahead beyond 6.6kWh charging so it seems

Is the Leaf the only EV for sale in 2017 that can only charge at 3.3kWh (unless you upgrade)?

That said, when I looked into buying a Leaf last year, the 6.6kWh was part of the deal, Windsor were no longer selling 3.3kWh at that stage...