Untethered or tethered

Gumbo

So my 2014 24kwh Leaf with 3.3 OBC, will a 32a home charge point charge it faster than a 16a point?

cros13

The current Smart fortwo is 3.3, the new one is 7kW with an upgraded version later in the year getting a 22kW onboard charger.

iMiEV is 3.3kW and still technically offered for sale.

The new Leaf is supposed to charge around 7kW as standard.

The rest of the vehicles with 3.3kW chargers are PHEVs.... but even some of those are going 6.6kW+

cros13

kceire wrote: »

So my 2014 24kwh Leaf with 3.3 OBC, will a 32a home charge point charge it faster than a 16a point?

nope, you are limited by your single 3.3kW onboard charger (which only draws 15A... not even the full 16A).

Since you are into the aftermarket... you could buy a 6.6kW charger board from a breaker (it's one big PCB for either version) and fit it yourself. No software changes... swap the board and it will just work.

The difficulty is getting at the charger board involves a bit of disassembly.

cros13

If you are interested in trying it:

All Spares Kildare Ltd

Ballysax,
The Curragh,
Kildare.
Opening Hours

Monday - Friday: 9.00-17.00 Saturday: 9.30-13.00
Contact

Phone No: 045 456702

They have a 6.6kW equipped Leaf... you may have to go there yourself as I doubt they have any ideas about touching the high voltage system. Gloves... remember electrical gloves....

Guy in florida documented it:

http://imageshack.com/a/img633/8311/7l4baw.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img903/3580/GvddMv.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img910/6471/PkFNnc.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img908/8543/XiW5be.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img910/6402/H4Bkbl.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img907/9616/qPHkJ5.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img905/8569/swnUwo.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img633/2105/hdWz4W.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img910/8756/hjnPAA.jpg

It's not an amateur job.... it's for those comfortable working with high voltage electrics... the cautious careful type.

Gumbo

Been offered a used Chargemaster Polar 32A Type 1 Tethered Charge point for €220.

Good deal?

peposhi

kceire wrote: »

Been offered a used Chargemaster Polar 32A Type 1 Tethered Charge point for €220.

Good deal?

Yes

peposhi

cros13 wrote: »

If you are interested in trying it:

All Spares Kildare Ltd

Ballysax,
The Curragh,
Kildare.
Opening Hours

Monday - Friday: 9.00-17.00 Saturday: 9.30-13.00
Contact

Phone No: 045 456702

They have a 6.6kW equipped Leaf... you may have to go there yourself as I doubt they have any ideas about touching the high voltage system. Gloves... remember electrical gloves....

Guy in florida documented it:

http://imageshack.com/a/img633/8311/7l4baw.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img903/3580/GvddMv.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img910/6471/PkFNnc.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img908/8543/XiW5be.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img910/6402/H4Bkbl.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img907/9616/qPHkJ5.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img905/8569/swnUwo.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img633/2105/hdWz4W.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img910/8756/hjnPAA.jpg

It's not an amateur job.... it's for those comfortable working with high voltage electrics... the cautious careful type.

Jeesus Cros... how do you know all those things?!? You are a machine, I am telling you!

slave1

cros13 wrote: »

nope, you are limited by your single 3.3kW onboard charger (which only draws 15A... not even the full 16A).

Since you are into the aftermarket... you could buy a 6.6kW charger board from a breaker (it's one big PCB for either version) and fit it yourself. No software changes... swap the board and it will just work.

The difficulty is getting at the charger board involves a bit of disassembly.

Would this not impact the battery warranty? if it's a 2014 then the warranty covers through to some time 2019.
I'd only contemplate this if out of warranty

unkel

+1

Madness!

If you really, really need 6.6kW charging, you should buy a car with a 6.6kW charger

Or just pay the extra €0.25 for the occasional one hour charging outside the night rate...

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

Hate to point this out... but 16A is 3.68kW not 6.6.... and you have to leave time for ramp up and down and cell balancing.

A 3.3kW 30 kWh Leaf takes just over 9.5 hours to charge from bone dry under ideal conditions. A 6.6kW 30kWh Leaf on a 16A just squeaks in at 9 hours. So.... yup 30kWh is the dividing line.

Hmmm , this is not the case in reality

leaving aside cell balancing time , which is not charging time as the main battery is ready to go anyway

on my 30Kw, the lowest we have been is 10% remaining , full recharge at 32A was achieved in 4 hours , hence I would expect the 24Kw to be about 6 hours

But I dont disagree with your conclusions, 30 kwh is about the dividing line for 16-32 charging. Its also too limiting to assume you have 8 hours or more of nite rate, Im often home late ( as in 1-2am ) and with the 3Kw or a 16A circuit , the car would not be ready at 8:00am for its daily commute

The one thing I felt was the best decision was the 6Kw charger in the leaf. I was coming back through Bunclody and felt that I was pushing it tight to get home ( in the event I would have done it ) and I was in need of a coffee. ( long day driving ) . stopped at Micks the chipper beside the SCP and plugged in .

One mini-snack box later ( OK it went up from a coffee ) , PS plug for Micks , for €4.50 you get a breast of chicken and so many chips , I brought half home to SWMBO .

during that time the SCP put about 10% into the car, and my trip home was worrying free of concerns. with the 3Kw , Id have to eaten two mini-boxes !!!!!

cros13

kceire wrote: »

Been offered a used Chargemaster Polar 32A Type 1 Tethered Charge point for €220.

Good deal?

Almost cheaper than the cable alone.

slave1 wrote: »

Would this not impact the battery warranty? if it's a 2014 then the warranty covers through to some time 2019.
I'd only contemplate this if out of warranty

Oh... sure... it voids the warranty. Though in real life nobody is going to notice unless they check the spec for the VIN... even then they are more likely to assume the factory made an error. The only way they'd find out for sure is if they were suspicious enough to check the serial number on the charger itself (in which case it would show up as a part fitted to the written off Leaf).... which they wouldn't do unless they had reason to remove all the surrounding metalwork.

Nissan's diagnostic stuff in the garage would mark it all off as kosher.

Gumbo

cros13 wrote: »

Almost cheaper than the cable alone.

This is the thing, do I stump up for that charger (have until 6 today to decide) or just wait and get a 16a fitted when doing the home renovations.

The 16a will cover me in my current Leaf.
The 30kwh Leaf is probably the sweet spot for the 32a version.
If I upgrade the Leaf in a few years, it will be to at least a newer version so that car at that time will probably be greater than 30kwh so my 32a charger will be wasted and I'd have to upgrade then in anyway???

Maybe I'm missing something here and adding 1 and 1 to get 36!

BoatMad

kceire wrote: »

This is the thing, do I stump up for that charger (have until 6 today to decide) or just wait and get a 16a fitted when doing the home renovations.

The 16a will cover me in my current Leaf.
The 30kwh Leaf is probably the sweet spot for the 32a version.
If I upgrade the Leaf in a few years, it will be to at least a newer version so that car at that time will probably be greater than 30kwh so my 32a charger will be wasted and I'd have to upgrade then in anyway???

Maybe I'm missing something here and adding 1 and 1 to get 36!

domestically short of installing 3 phase , 32A EVSE is about the practical limit, so putting in a 32A EVSE is about as future proof as you can make it

not sure how your 32A EVSE ( its not a charger by the way ) will be " wasted " in a few years

slave1

Per the last post, go for the correct cable (6sq for up to 20m and 10sq for longer runs), 32A at the board and 6.6kw-7.0kw untethered charger and you are effectively as future proofed as possible right now.
The only way you will not be future proofed is if you upgrade your domestic supply which we are a long way off from IMHO.

If a 6.6kw 30kWh Leaf is charged from zero to hero in 4.5hrs then in a few years time night rate of 8hrs will fully charge a 6.6kw 53kWh (quick/dirty math)battery pack and in reality more because the chances of a charge from a zero state is next to none....

I have a 3.3kw on-board charger for my leaf but installing 7kw charger, priority switch and fuses etc. to cater for future needs...

cros13

BoatMad wrote: »

Hmmm , this is not the case in reality

leaving aside cell balancing time , which is not charging time as the main battery is ready to go anyway

True... I was fudging the details. I didn't go into efficiency for that reason either.

BoatMad wrote: »

domestically short of installing 3 phase , 32A EVSE is about the practical limit, so putting in a 32A EVSE is about as future proof as you can make it

I have a soft spot for the Tesla Wall Connector, it has a rotary DIP switch in it you can use to select allowed load from 1A to 48A. Supports three phase, single phase and load sharing with one SKU. 40A or 48A may not a problem depending on the other loads in the house.

BoatMad wrote: »

not sure how your 32A EVSE ( its not a charger by the way ) will be " wasted " in a few years

ditto. go for the 32A.

Gumbo

BoatMad wrote: »

domestically short of installing 3 phase , 32A EVSE is about the practical limit, so putting in a 32A EVSE is about as future proof as you can make it

not sure how your 32A EVSE ( its not a charger by the way ) will be " wasted " in a few years

32a EVSA is the limit a typical domestic house can add, ok that clears that up, so in theory, buy the 32a now and you'll never have to upgrade.

The wasted comment was based on the 32a unit charging a 30kwh Leaf and a comment that this was the max it would be good for so I assumed that if for instance I bought a 40kwh EV in 10 years time, a 32a evse was the max that could be installed anyway.

slave1 wrote: »

I have a 3.3kw on-board charger for my leaf but installing 7kw charger, priority switch and fuses etc. to cater for future needs...

Now I'm just as confused. What's the 7kw charger? Is this an additional item?

Thanks and sorry for these questions, but I bought the horse before researching stables

slave1

The 7kw charger is my Podpoint wall charger, the on-board Leaf charger is 6.6kw, I assume the difference is down to efficiency of the charger (or should that be phrased inefficiency of Leaf).
In either case you should think 32amp charger...

KCross

The confusion is in the terminology.

The EVSE on the wall is a charge point, not a charger.
The charger is in the car and is either 3.3kW or 6.6kW... for the Leaf at least.

The charge points are either rated 16A (~3.6kW) or 32A (~7kW) as their max output.

If you have a 32A charge point but a 3.3kW charger(in the car) you are limited to the 3.3kW in the car. It will only pull 3.3kW from the charge point eventhough the charge point can deliver more.

ei9go

Does anyone know what the switch behind the 30amp Chargemaster unit is for?

It's one that would accept a screwdriver blade to move it.

stesaurus

ei9go wrote: »

Does anyone know what the switch behind the 30amp Chargemaster unit is for?

It's one that would accept a screwdriver blade to move it.

Pic? Not sure I've ever seen a switch

ei9go

s.welstead wrote: »

Pic? Not sure I've ever seen a switch

On further reflection and looking at photos I think it just a plug where the cable would go on the tethered model

BoatMad

kceire wrote: »

32a EVSA is the limit a typical domestic house can add, ok that clears that up, so in theory, buy the 32a now and you'll never have to upgrade.

The wasted comment was based on the 32a unit charging a 30kwh Leaf and a comment that this was the max it would be good for so I assumed that if for instance I bought a 40kwh EV in 10 years time, a 32a evse was the max that could be installed anyway.



Now I'm just as confused. What's the 7kw charger? Is this an additional item?

Thanks and sorry for these questions, but I bought the horse before researching stables

I have a prototype EVSE , that is switchable , in reality however its not much of an option , I have added load sharing which is far more useful and in theory would allow higher then 32A EVSE as the EVSE senses house loads and throttles back the car charging.

Shefwedfan

Gone very technical :-) If I was putting in tethered 32amp Type 2 unit I guess I am fairly sure I am future proofing myself....

BoatMad

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Gone very technical :-) If I was putting in tethered 32amp Type 2 unit I guess I am fairly sure I am future proofing myself....

yes , but you need to characterise your house loads first and also ensure you have a modern wiring installation etc . you made need priority switches etc

BoatMad

ei9go wrote: »

On further reflection and looking at photos I think it just a plug where the cable would go on the tethered model

Ive looked inside the 16A Chargemaster, there is a facility to fit a thethered cable, but you'd need to disconnect the socket

goz83

I went for a 32A tethered type 1 pod with a 13A plug. I have a 24kw 6.6 Leaf. When I get an ev that needs a type 2 cable, I will just change out the existing type 1 cable, or add a type 2 cable to the pod. It's got a built in RCBO, so in the unlikely event of 2 cars getting plugged in, the circuit would trip. A sparks might have a better solution.

BoatMad

goz83 wrote: »

I went for a 32A tethered type 1 pod with a 13A plug. I have a 24kw 6.6 Leaf. When I get an ev that needs a type 2 cable, I will just change out the existing type 1 cable, or add a type 2 cable to the pod. It's got a built in RCBO, so in the unlikely event of 2 cars getting plugged in, the circuit would trip. A sparks might have a better solution.

the easiest is to swap the complete Type 1 cable to a type 2 cable

unless you have a dual port EVSE , it is not advisable to parallel a type 1 and type 2 cable together. There is an issue with the resistors setting the cable current ( as these get paralleled) and also contary to EU/IEC specifications , the cable not being used, gets powered up when the other one is plugged into a car, not a great idea.

just remove the type 1 and replace with a type 2 when needed - simples ( or buy a convertor cable type 1 to type2 ) , a type 2 tethered cable is around £90

Water John

In the market for a 32A untethered charger Type 2 socket.

Eco cars seem to have removed their's from their website.

Any suggestions please. PM me if you'd prefer.

Shefwedfan

Water John wrote: »

In the market for a 32A untethered charger Type 2 socket.

Eco cars seem to have removed their's from their website.

Any suggestions please. PM me if you'd prefer.

http://theevcompany.com/product/rolec-charging-unit-32amp/

I just got the following, not installed yet

Water John

Thanks Shef, looks good to me.

goz83

https://evonestop.co.uk/shop/audi/audi-r8-e-tron/wallpodev-commercialcharge-type-2-socket/