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Has property gone mad again

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    #92
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    impr0v wrote:
    This is a good point. Is social practicality or snobbery that pushes people to pay tens, maybe even hundreds of thousands, more for one house over another a mile or so away, and possibly equidistant from their place of work?


    It's complete snobbery. Plenty of places in Tallaght for example, right on the Luas line, every amenities you could want on your doorstep. Cinemas, theatres, restaurants etc. Some people just don't like the address. There's no way I would pay 400-500k for a good address. You'd have no life paying that mortgage.


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    #93
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Dublin property snobbery is a great driver of the market. I love giving Kilbarrack as an example so I will again. In under 900m (as the crow flies) prices go from 200K for a terrace to 1.25million (Albeit a 281sqm. Mansion on the Howth road). In less than 500m a house with a similar enough square footage will go from 275k to 480K (100 v 116 sqm.). I hear the phrase 'location location location' and it always give me a chuckle. That would put me in Foxfield rather than Kilbarrack and cost me 200K. Same schools, same people, further from the DART station.

    There was a great thread here about developers/EA's renaming areas. The OP seemed earnest enough, not a single post backing up his position. Literally everyone on the thread acknowledged it as par for the course.


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    #94
    Milly33
    Registered Users Posts: 8,651 ✭✭✭Milly33


    Well said it it never property going mad it is people.. They want and want and want and are getting to lazy


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    #95
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,995 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    pilly wrote: »
    It's complete snobbery. Plenty of places in Tallaght for example, right on the Luas line, every amenities you could want on your doorstep. Cinemas, theatres, restaurants etc. Some people just don't like the address. There's no way I would pay 400-500k for a good address. You'd have no life paying that mortgage.

    For me and my partner for the age we are at, its schools. And the areas with the good schools usually go for more money.


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    #96
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    For me and my partner for the age we are at, its schools. And the areas with the good schools usually go for more money.

    I'd be interested to know - genuine question I really don't know - what the cost of an education at a top school in Dublin is. It has to be getting to the point you're better off buying in Kilbarrack and sending them to a top private school on the DART than living in Sandymount and sending them to the local comprehensive (or the Irish equivalent).


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    #97
    Hollister11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Hollister11


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    I'd be interested to know - genuine question I really don't know - what the cost of an education at a top school in Dublin is. It has to be getting to the point you're better off buying in Kilbarrack and sending them to a top private school on the DART than living in Sandymount and sending them to the local comprehensive (or the Irish equivalent).

    There isn't much of a choice currently in Kilbarrack. There's 3 for sale on Daft.


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    #98
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,995 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    I'd be interested to know - genuine question I really don't know - what the cost of an education at a top school in Dublin is. It has to be getting to the point you're better off buying in Kilbarrack and sending them to a top private school on the DART than living in Sandymount and sending them to the local comprehensive (or the Irish equivalent).

    Semi-Private is preferable. Top end schools are out of our price range I think. Well currently at least. There is a huge difference in primary schools and secondary schools in our current area. Very much a case of haves and have nots.


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    #99
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Hollister11 wrote: »
    There isn't much of a choice currently in Kilbarrack. There's 3 for sale on Daft.

    I was using it as an example, Baldoyle is a good secondary place to try :pac:

    The point being it's about 40K to put a kid through a good private education, lets say 125K to include two of the little sods, books, bribes etc. to get them in. To me it makes more sense to buy a house for 350K and give them that, rather than buying a house for 600K and sending them to the local.

    I'm sure I'm missing something.

    I sincerely hope the wife doesn't go through the computer and wonder why I'm looking at posh boys schools...

    Link to IT article


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    #100
    Hollister11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Hollister11


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    I was using it as an example, Baldoyle is a good secondary place to try :pac:

    The point being it's about 40K to put a kid through a good private education, lets say 125K to include two of the little sods, books, bribes etc. to get them in. To me it makes more sense to buy a house for 350K and give them that, rather than buying a house for 600K and sending them to the local.

    I'm sure I'm missing something.

    I sincerely hope the wife doesn't go through the computer and wonder why I'm looking at posh boys schools...

    Link to IT article

    I'm even getting sick of Baldoyle. It's a very lifeless town really.

    The dream is Howth.


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    #101
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Hollister11 wrote: »
    I'm even getting sick of Baldoyle. It's a very lifeless town really.

    The dream is Howth.

    Just get on the bloody DART man, it's like 5 minutes from you. :pac:


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    #102
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,969 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    Just get on the bloody DART man, it's like 5 minutes from you. :pac:

    I know but like ye totes want to tell folks your from the howe like.


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    #103
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    listermint wrote: »
    I know but like ye totes want to tell folks your from the howe like.

    Okay getting way OT here but is that where the Northside 'Valley Girls' come from. I was on the DART one morning, I assume they were going to UCD, pit of Americanised fashion victims it is, and if I heard the word 'like' one more time I swear to god was going to throw a thesaurus as them.


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    #104
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,969 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    Okay getting way OT here but is that where the Northside 'Valley Girls' come from. I was on the DART one morning, I assume they were going to UCD, pit of Americanised fashion victims it is, and if I heard the word 'like' one more time I swear to god was going to throw a thesaurus as them.

    Yes


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    #105
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    Dublin property snobbery is a great driver of the market. I love giving Kilbarrack as an example so I will again. In under 900m (as the crow flies) prices go from 200K for a terrace to 1.25million (Albeit a 281sqm. Mansion on the Howth road). In less than 500m a house with a similar enough square footage will go from 275k to 480K (100 v 116 sqm.). I hear the phrase 'location location location' and it always give me a chuckle. That would put me in Foxfield rather than Kilbarrack and cost me 200K. Same schools, same people, further from the DART station.

    There was a great thread here about developers/EA's renaming areas. The OP seemed earnest enough, not a single post backing up his position. Literally everyone on the thread acknowledged it as par for the course.

    Killbarrack is a clear anomaly though in being cheap. The real division north of the river is east West. Much of Killbarrack is on the right side of the tracks.


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    #106
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    Killbarrack is a clear anomaly though in being cheap. The real division north of the river is east West. Much of Killbarrack is on the right side of the tracks.

    Personally I think it's always been and East/West divide on both sides of the Liffey. Not that any of this is as easy as lines on a map.


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    #107
    Hollister11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Hollister11


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    Just get on the bloody DART man, it's like 5 minutes from you. :pac:

    I want to live there. I want the smell of the sea, the view, and to able to breath. I want amenities and a choice of shops, pubs and cafes within a 10 minutes walk.

    I live in Red Arches in Baldoyle. The place has deteriorated awfully in the last couple of years. It used to be a nice place, but now it's just loads and loads of building work, and potential building work going on. There was 50 units just sold beside us, with 200 more being built and and 550 potentially down the other side of the estate. What that means is that every were we turn there's apartments and houses blocking are views and it feels like we're being g boxed in. That's why I want out.


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    #108
    Danbo!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,942 ✭✭✭Danbo!


    impr0v wrote: »
    This is a good point. Is social practicality or snobbery that pushes people to pay tens, maybe even hundreds of thousands, more for one house over another a mile or so away, and possibly equidistant from their place of work?

    Yeah I saw a lot of this when we were buying. I was renting in ballycullen and was hoping to get closer to town to cut down the commute, but was priced out.

    The ballycullen road seemed to be a clear divide. Houses in firhouse for 300-350, while their equivalents across the road were often 100k+ more, even worse as you went further into knocklyon.

    I bought in firhouse in the end, lovely estate, great community, and far more house for my money. My commute is about the same but I'll be mortgage free a lot sooner.


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    #109
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Mod note

    A reminder that this thread is about the property market, not school fees or locality bashing. Thanks


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    #110
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    property has a long way to get back to 2007 prices .... I wouldnt worry about the prices just


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    #111
    trobbin
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭trobbin


    handlemaster wrote: »
    property has a long way to get back to 2007 prices .... I wouldnt worry about the prices just

    What exactly do you mean? Are you talking about tiny sites in Ballsbridge, or normal houses for working class families?

    Why would you use 2007 as a reference point? Was it not clear to everyone and their dog that prices where completely crazy back then?

    Also since then we've property tax and higher interest rates, no trackers, all making repayments higher. We've also got USC on wages, which we didn't have then. You can look at individual inflationary figures on utilities also. I would genuinely like to understand your comment, but I'm unable.

    You say "you wouldn't worry about prices" that surely means you're not looking to buy?


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    #112
    893bet
    Registered Users Posts: 8,980 ✭✭✭893bet


    handlemaster wrote: »
    property has a long way to get back to 2007 prices .... I wouldnt worry about the prices just

    What this means is prices are low enough in Leitrim and Roscommon and many other towns where far too many houses were built.

    In Dublin/cork/Galway/Limerick I.e. Urban centres where there are large populations and work then prices for rent and buying are gone bat **** crazy.


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    #113
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    trobbin wrote: »
    What exactly do you mean? Are you talking about tiny sites in Ballsbridge, or normal houses for working class families?

    Why would you use 2007 as a reference point? Was it not clear to everyone and their dog that prices where completely crazy back then?

    Also since then we've property tax and higher interest rates, no trackers, all making repayments higher. We've also got USC on wages, which we didn't have then. You can look at individual inflationary figures on utilities also. I would genuinely like to understand your comment, but I'm unable.

    You say "you wouldn't worry about prices" that surely means you're not looking to buy?[/QUOTE

    2007 was the peak. Long way off it.. prices will continue to go up . If you think there high now hold your ink.


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    #114
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    893bet wrote: »
    What this means is prices are low enough in Leitrim and Roscommon and many other towns where far too many houses were built.

    In Dublin/cork/Galway/Limerick I.e. Urban centres where there are large populations and work then prices for rent and buying are gone bat **** crazy.


    For rent yes has gone up alot to match demand. Property selling prices have a way to go yet.


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    #115
    trobbin
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭trobbin


    handlemaster wrote: »
    trobbin wrote: »
    What exactly do you mean? Are you talking about tiny sites in Ballsbridge, or normal houses for working class families?

    Why would you use 2007 as a reference point? Was it not clear to everyone and their dog that prices where completely crazy back then?

    Also since then we've property tax and higher interest rates, no trackers, all making repayments higher. We've also got USC on wages, which we didn't have then. You can look at individual inflationary figures on utilities also. I would genuinely like to understand your comment, but I'm unable.

    You say "you wouldn't worry about prices" that surely means you're not looking to buy?[/QUOTE

    2007 was the peak. Long way off it.. prices will continue to go up . If you think there high now hold your ink.
    But you're still not adding any substance to your thoughts. So you think because houses once cost x amount they'll definitely go back there?
    I could say the same thing about interest rates. So do you also think we'll se base rates of 18/20%?


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    #116
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    trobbin wrote: »
    handlemaster wrote: »
    But you're still not adding any substance to your thoughts. So you think because houses once cost x amount they'll definitely go back there?
    I could say the same thing about interest rates. So do you also think we'll se base rates of 18/20%?

    History has a habit of repeating itself. Not every human decision os rational. Property buying falls into this. When prices are back to the crash level. Then worry. In the mean time buy or pay high rent


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    #117
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Who knows with the instability of Europe and interest rates. Hopefully nowhere near that again but never say never.

    In regards to Dublin property prices some areas are very high but others not so much. It's not inconceivable and possibly even preferable that Dublin property continues to rise at c.2-4% per year inline with jobs and spending power. Supply needs to come on stream in the suburbs and offer reasonable homes in the c. 300K bracket but it's not 'madness' that homes within the M50 should be out of reach of the likes of me and households on average incomes. Living within the bounds of a major 'city centre' is not an average thing, most people live in suburbs and commute in.


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    #118
    myshirt
    Registered Users Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭myshirt


    Who is buying these 550-800k homes? Where are they getting that type of money?


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    #119
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    myshirt wrote: »
    Who is buying these 550-800k homes? Where are they getting that type of money?

    In a functioning property market those of 100K house hold incomes. They would sell a house in the suburbs they purchased in their twenties/early thirties and after paying down significant equity they sell for 350K in their 40s with teenagers and move to a 600K house with a 250K mortgage over 20-25 years finishing at retirement.

    The issue is we never seem to have had a functioning market.


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    #120
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    myshirt wrote: »
    Who is buying these 550-800k homes? Where are they getting that type of money?


    I would guess people who didnt spend their youth spending their money on drink and fags.got a good education. Bought in twenties . Now buying again in 40ies


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    #121
    myshirt
    Registered Users Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭myshirt


    Has to be a large portion of people in there getting gifts. Quite a significant chunk of change for a first time buyer


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