Am I suitable for an EV....honestly?

fennor72

Hi
I'm seriously considering changing from my very reliable 10 year old focus petrol to a EV, currently it's costing between 50 and 60 euros a week on fuel. I really like the look of the new ioniq but I would like some honest advice on whether such a car would suit my driving needs.
My daily commute to work is 110 km return, 5 days a week all motorway. At the weekend the car is hardly ever used.
I know the range on the ioniq is supposed to be nearly 300km but ioniq owners what's the real range?
Also running costs? I would have to charge the car every night for 5 or 6 days a week and are home charge points still installed free? And how much would say a nightly charge cost?
I'm sorry about all the questions but I'm trying to weigh up the pros and cons.

Soarer

I don't own an Ev, but from what I've picked up from reading this forum....
The Ioniq is more suited to motorway driving than the Leaf. It more efficient.
I think, at motorway speeds, in the depths of winter with everything turned on, you'd get around 180kms from a full charge. Open to correction there.
Home charge points are still installed for free, but they're only 16A chargers. You'd need to pay for a 32A charger to allow for rapid charging at home. Again open to correction on the quick charging thing, but the normal chargers are still free.
As for night rate, I think people are paying around 9c per kWh. So even if you charged your Ioniq from 0% to 100% 7 nights a week, it'd be costing you less than €18 per week
(9c x 28kWh battery x 7 days)

DrPhilG

I don't think anybody ever claimed a 300km range on the Ioniq?

200km would be as good as you could expect. If your commute is 110km each way you would need a charge at some point each day.

If it's 110km total then no reason why not.

Personally I wouldn't touch a new car but if it works for you then go for it.

Bear in mind though that Nissan just confirmed their new model will be revealed in September and it's rumoured to have a 330km range. If I was going to buy new I would definitely be holding off until Nissan show their hand.

unkel

fennor72 wrote: »

I'm seriously considering changing from my very reliable 10 year old focus petrol to a EV, currently it's costing between 50 and 60 euros a week on fuel.

Hi Fennor, with your driving pattern an Ioniq will cost you about 200 euro on electricity. Per year. I'm not joking.

I've ordered a brand new Ioniq myself in January, hoping to pick it up before the end of the month. Here I go from spending €100 a week on petrol and tax to spending €20 a week on fuel and tax

fennor72 wrote: »

Hi
I'm seriously considering changing from my very reliable 10 year old focus petrol to a EV, currently it's costing between 50 and 60 euros a week on fuel. I really like the look of the new ioniq but I would like some honest advice on whether such a car would suit my driving needs.
My daily commute to work is 110 km return, 5 days a week all motorway. At the weekend the car is hardly ever used.
I know the range on the ioniq is supposed to be nearly 300km but ioniq owners what's the real range?
Also running costs? I would have to charge the car every night for 5 or 6 days a week and are home charge points still installed free? And how much would say a nightly charge cost?
I'm sorry about all the questions but I'm trying to weigh up the pros and cons.

peposhi

fennor72 wrote: »

Hi
I'm seriously considering changing from my very reliable 10 year old focus petrol to a EV, currently it's costing between 50 and 60 euros a week on fuel. I really like the look of the new ioniq but I would like some honest advice on whether such a car would suit my driving needs.
My daily commute to work is 110 km return, 5 days a week all motorway. At the weekend the car is hardly ever used.
I know the range on the ioniq is supposed to be nearly 300km but ioniq owners what's the real range?
Also running costs? I would have to charge the car every night for 5 or 6 days a week and are home charge points still installed free? And how much would say a nightly charge cost?
I'm sorry about all the questions but I'm trying to weigh up the pros and cons.

If your commute is 110km motorway only, you are perfectly safe buying the Ioniq.

I test drove it for 24 hours at the beginning of Feb and REALLY loved it. It is much more efficient than the Leaf and charges extremely quick at FCPs (in 26 min it sucked 26kW of electricity). The CCS chargers are not well spread around the country which might make it harder for you to travel around a lot. I would have gone for it if the cost of change was not seriously high (got offered silly money for my 24kW Leaf SV too).
I went for one year old 30Kw Leaf SVE with 6.6kW charger instead.
This car would still do the commute you have but with a lot less in the "tank" at the end of your journey.

If your plan is to use the car just to go to work and back - you can pick either.

You can save a lot of dosh by getting a year old Leaf (ensure you get the 6.6kW on board charger version)
or
If you really want newer, vast improved car - Ioniq would be a great choice.


As for charging - with a new Leaf or Ioniq you can still avail of a free charging point, even though it would be 16A only (sell it new and replace it with a 30A so you can get twice quicker home charging. Your weekly commute would cost you around €10 leccy a week at a night rate.

Hope that helps!

One more thing - once you jump on the EV wagon... hard to get off LOL

macnab

First off I think an EV would be the perfect car for your commute.
The range on the ioniq is probably about 200km in cold weather and I think it should be good for 240km in warmer weather.
YES home charge points are still installed free.
A nightly charge would cost approx €1.40 at 9c night rate, and approx €3 if you are paying 20c per unit.
So your weekly costs would be between €7 and €18 depending on whether you have night rate electricity or not.

Also you must factor into this,
€120 tax
Much lower maintenance costs
Less to go wrong ie no clutch, gearbox, head gasket, turbo, egr valves, exhaust/cat.

On the down side, my wife has become an EV convert so "my car" is no longer my own.......boo

fennor72

Thanks for all the encouraging posts. My trip each day is 55km each way so range was a concern as was obviously cost so again thank you for your honest opinions.
To be honest I haven't considered the leaf as I kind of fell for the ioniq as soon as I saw it.

fennor72

DrPhilG wrote:

I don't think anybody ever claimed a 300km range on the Ioniq?

The 300km range I think was in the brochure.

fennor72

unkel wrote:

Hi Fennor, with your driving pattern an Ioniq will cost you about 200 euro on electricity. Per year. I'm not joking.

unkel wrote:

I've ordered a brand new Ioniq myself in January, hoping to pick it up before the end of the month. Here I go from spending €100 a week on petrol and tax to spending €20 a week on fuel and tax

Good luck with the new car. Let us know how you get on with it.

peposhi

fennor72 wrote: »

Thanks for all the encouraging posts. My trip each day is 55km each way so range was a concern as was obviously cost so again thank you for your honest opinions.
To be honest I haven't considered the leaf as I kind of fell for the ioniq as soon as I saw it.

haha, with Leaf you either fall in love the first time you see it or hate it forever, when the Ioniq... If you do not tell your colleagues you bought a BEV the'd think you just went for a 171 car aka nothing unusual...

isnottheword

fennor72 wrote: »

The 300km range I think was in the brochure.

All manufacturers lie when it comes to this. That's regardless of ICE cars and their MPG figures or EV cars and their range figures.

Don't take the remotest of interest in that rubbish. To get an idea of real world range, refer to end users and base it on their feedback.

Dardania

isnottheword wrote: »

All manufacturers lie when it comes to this. That's regardless of ICE cars and their MPG figures or EV cars and their range figures.

Don't take the remotest of interest in that rubbish. To get an idea of real world range, refer to end users and base it on their feedback.

Actually an interesting point - for ICE I always referred to the averages in spritmonitor.de - wonder is anyone doing a similar site for EVs...

Edit: looks like some people are tracking on spritmonitor - does 17.05kwh/100km sound reasonable?
https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/33-Nissan/1296-Leaf.html?fueltype=5&powerunit=2

DrPhilG

fennor72 wrote: »

The 300km range I think was in the brochure.

Didn't realise they had claimed that, lol.

But yeah around 200 is more realistic going by reports. You might get a little more by driving sensibly, but that's boring.

EVs are a joy to drive so it's a shame to drive them like a granny.

slave1

In my Leaf I had 204km range at 98% yesterday morning, drove to work and back and everyone in work saw it, I ended up doing 6 test drives with guys, all were completely blown away with size comfort and speed, finished up last night with 112kms driven and 34% left on the battery.
This is a30kWh Leaf and the Ioniq is supposed to be better range so your driving pattern is well within EV range.
Ioniq's are basically new, 30kWh Leafs are in plentiful supply at half the price from the UK........decisions decisions.....
I've done 1,200 kms so far at a cost of less than a fiver as mostly free public charging as I await home charge point install....

peposhi

Yes, Dardania

If you're expecting the Ioniq to have 200 km range of motorway speeds then you will be disappointed, I test drove it a few weeks ago over 207 km and I averaged 15.3 kWh per hundred kilometres driving 100-110 kph with the last 60 or so kms at 80-100 kph. I actually drove around 280 kms in total but not in the one drive but efficiency was always around 15.3 kWh/100 kms and I wasn't trying to hyper mile either, I wasn't trying to drive efficiently nor rally it, just driving normally.

The first 65 kms were on wet roads and it was quiet breezy the rest was dry roads, definitely more efficient than the leaf but not really a 200 km range EV , perhaps in warmer weather at 80-100 Kph But the major advantage of the Ioniq is the speed of it charging in DC fast chargers. 35-90 % in 25 mins.

There's no way I'd buy a new Ioniq now with the new leaf so close , 6 months isn't a long time to wait and you could be waiting to 3 possibly more months to Get the Ioniq.

The new leaf will be available when my lease expires in 2018 perfect timing !

WattsUp

Sounds like a 30KW BEV would work fine for you although motorway speeds eat up the electrons at lot faster than the brochure numbers. I wouldn't discount a second hand leaf as the depreciation on EVs is very high in first year....Also don't overthink the "free 16A charger". You'd probably buy and have a 32A charger installed for 500-700 anyway.

NIMAN

To the OP,

I assume you own your own car? So it's only costing tax, insurance, fuel.

If so, weigh up how much it costs per year, then consider if the cost of splashing out on a new car, which won't be cheap, will return benefits to offset this cost.

The €25k you will spend on a new car will buy a lot of petrol.

Indeed, if saving money is the object then keep the Focus, however if buying new or nearly new the EV makes perfect sense.

I'd be a bit cautious about buying a Diesel now because you just don't know what will happen the 2nd hand market in a few years with new emissions regulations to take effect and possible restrictions on diesels in towns and cities though probably wouldn't happen in Ireland as most politicians probably drive diesel themselves and probably think of electric cars as RC Toys. But it's more than possible the Manufacturers themselves will have to increase the cost of diesels or just abandon them, E.U regulation may even dictate it.

If you can't wait until the Release of Leaf II in September, then a 2nd hand 30 Kwh Leaf is a good bet and also charges faster from the fast chargers, though not as fast as the Ioniq it's still faster than the 24 Kwh leaf.

Pkiernan

Unless you are going to get a new car anyway, from a purely cost savings point of view it makes no sense to spend 30k to save 3k a year in fuel.

isnottheword

Pkiernan wrote: »

Unless you are going to get a new car anyway, from a purely cost savings point of view it makes no sense to spend 30k to save 3k a year in fuel.

Who said anything about shelling out 30k being a necessity? Consumers can buy in at a price point that suits them best. In any event, the same point can be made about buying ANY new car - i.e. it loses 20% minimum value upon driving it off the forecourt.

As regards returns on fuel savings....

Purchase price on gen 1.5 Nissan Leaf (2014) - €9,300
20,000KM travelled over 7 months - with a saving of €1,120 before tax savings and servicing costs (as I'd have had to do just shy of 2 engine related services with my old ICE).
That's a return of 12% of the initial outlay. Bear in mind also that the last ICE I had was a Ford with a 1.4 TDCi engine - which ran on fumes.

There's your real life case study on fuel savings using an EV.

peposhi

It is costing me cheaper to buy and run a 161 30kW Leaf than only to run my old (would have been 13 years old this year) Audi A4 Avant, which was an excellent car. And to add more to it - my old '99 Nissan March Raw Project (all done up with big madafaka wheels, low stance, big exhaust and etc) was costing me more to run than my current Leaf... When you put the figures together, this is where you get hit by the realisation...

ei9go

EPA range on Hyundai is 124 miles.
EPA range on the 30kw Leaf is 107 miles.

OP, what I'd want to know is the actual cost over five years.

What is your annual spend on the focus, take last year as an example. Fuel, tax, repayments.

Do likewise for the Ioniq.

I suspect the Ioniq to be false economy.

No chance of getting 200 kms in the Ioniq in the cooler months at 100 Kph.

Perhaps in warmer weather with no heat. That's based on the efficiency results of my 207 KM trip. 15.3 Kwh/100 kms = 182 Kms to a dead stop. Still not bad, the faster "fast" charging is really convenient.

I'd get about 110 Kms in my 24 Kwh Leaf this time of year.

unkel

ei9go wrote: »

EPA range on Hyundai is 124 miles.
EPA range on the 30kw Leaf is 107 miles.

And just 73 miles for the earlier 24kw Leaf

Someone asking about the total cost of buying a new Ioniq (I paid €25k) compared to keeping your old car? Well I'm driving an old car worth nothing with zero depreciation and I do the maintenance myself, so almost zero maintenance. Comparing this car to a new Ioniq (keeping for 6 years):

Fuel + tax + depreciation current car: 3000 + 1700 + 0 = 4700 per year
Fuel + tax + depreciation brand new Ioniq: 200 + 120 + (25000-5000)/6 = 3653 per year

Buying a brand new car is saving me €1,000 per year compared to keeping my old worthless banger...

isnottheword

unkel wrote: »

Fuel + tax + depreciation current car: 3000 + 1700 + 0 = 4700 per year
Fuel + tax + depreciation brand new Ioniq: 200 + 120 + (25000-5000)/6 = 3653 per year
Buying a brand new car is saving me €1,000 per year compared to keeping my old worthless banger...

Have to hand it to you - very well thought through - kudos.

You mentioned previously that the Iconiq is cheaper in Ireland than the UK (or was it also Europe generally?). With that, when Iconiq 2nd hands hit the market, should there be an expectation that they will be cheaper here than a UK 2nd hand?

Just a point of curiosity based upon looking towards future options.....

unkel

Only time will tell. The one thing that is extremely unlikely to happen is that you will be able next year to bring in a 1 year old Ioniq (or buy it in Ireland) for half the Irish list price (as you can now buy a 1 year old 30kWh Leaf for about half the Irish list price)

My prediction is that it will take twice that time, or more. You can comment on how wrong / right I am on this in January 2019. If you can buy a non-white 2017 Ioniq EV then for less than €12k, my prediction fails. If you can buy a non-white 2017 Ioniq EV in January 2018 for less than €15k, n97mini's prediction wins

isnottheword

unkel wrote: »

Only time will tell. The one thing that is extremely unlikely to happen is that you will be able next year to bring in a 1 year old Ioniq (or buy it in Ireland) for half the Irish list price (as you can now buy a 1 year old 30kWh Leaf for about half the Irish list price)

My prediction is that it will take twice that time, or more. You can comment on how wrong / right I am on this in January 2019. If you can buy a non-white 2017 Ioniq EV then for less than €12k, my prediction fails. If you can buy a non-white 2017 Ioniq EV in January 2018 for less than €15k, n97mini's prediction wins

Thanks for your opinion on the matter. I won't dare to take a position that contradicts either you or n97mini - as I simply don't know (hence the question).

I'm quite happy with my purchase and it's saving me €160/month on fuel alone. However, the moment 'charging for charging' comes in, it's going to be smarter for me to have an EV that can do an 80mile roundtrip with ease (work have finally installed chargepoints but they're charging for the privilege of using same). That would enable me to juice up on night rate (with only the occasional use of the public network).

With that in mind, the value of my Leaf in mind - and the inevitable fee for charging in the mix, I'm weighing up the most cost effective move to make - and when to make it. A case of deciding when to 'stick or twist'.

fennor72

Deleted User wrote:

What is your annual spend on the focus, take last year as an example. Fuel, tax, repayments.

As far as my overall spend on the focus for the year. Fuel say 2500 approx tax about 400. Annual Nct and twice yearly (at least) service say 800 ( timing belt included). As regards repayments the loan is long gone. I bought the car when it was a year old, and I can honestly say it's been the best car I've owned.
But lately the mileage is taking its toil and a few knocks have developed so it's a case of a change is on the way all be it reluctantly.

unkel

isnottheword wrote: »

the moment 'charging for charging' comes in, it's going to be smarter for me to have an EV that can do an 80mile roundtrip with ease

I'm not worried about charging for charging. In fact, bring it on if that means better availability / reliability of public charging points and just more of them.

The only EV for sale these days that can't do a 80 mile round trip is the Leaf BTW

I've no doubt we will laugh at EVs not able for 200 mile round trips in 5 years time...