Am I suitable for an EV....honestly?

fennor72

Deleted User wrote:

There's no way I'd buy a new Ioniq now with the new leaf so close , 6 months isn't a long time to wait and you could be waiting to 3 possibly more months to Get the Ioniq.

Your point does make good sense. I might hold on and see what the new Leaf is like. We are already 3 months into the year so it might be worth waiting. Is September a definite confirm for the Leaf

isnottheword

unkel wrote: »

I'm not worried about charging for charging. In fact, bring it on if that means better availability / reliability of public charging points and just more of them.

I'm not 'worried' about it either as such - and of course, I see a need (so long as it's implemented sympathetically to begin with) - which will result in the advantages you mention.
However, I won't kid anyone (and truth be told, $ is the primary consideration in this type of buying decision. I'm sure there are a few who lead with environmental concerns as the primary motive but as per a query posted on one of the EV groups on FB - the primary reason for most people in buying EV was cost consideration).
Therefore, 'charging for charging' presents both opportunities and threats. Cost considerations fall into the latter category. I need to move to a motor that can do 80miles roundtrip regardless of season or driving conditions (in fact, my commute could go from n-road to motorway - and extend beyond 80 miles - naturally with the temptation of driving at higher speed within 12 months).
I thought the Iconiq is capable of same? Is it your feeling that the 30kW Leaf is likely to be the savvy purchase in the 2nd hand arena - say end of this year or next year (with a 2014 Acenta 6.6kW (24kW) to offload)?

unkel wrote: »

I've no doubt we will laugh at EVs not able for 200 mile round trips in 5 years time...

Of that we are in complete agreement. But who knows - perhaps in 5 years time, I'll want to take the bus

fennor72

fennor72 wrote: »

Your point does make good sense. I might hold on and see what the new Leaf is like. We are already 3 months into the year so it might be worth waiting. Is September a definite confirm for the Leaf

September is as of a few days ago is the official announcement from Nissan, however, there could be some kind of delay, anything can happen between now and then but it's just so close to buy now.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

The only EV for sale these days that can't do a 80 mile round trip is the Leaf BTW

The 30 Kwh Leaf has more than 80 miles range...... :P

The Zoe is another and the BMW I3, E-Golf all fall into the same range. Though the updated battery in these electrics will push them well past the 80 mile zone especially the 40 Kwh Zoe.

unkel

isnottheword wrote: »

Is it your feeling that the 30kW Leaf is likely to be the savvy purchase in the 2nd hand arena - say end of this year or next year (with a 2014 Acenta 6.6kW (24kW) to offload)?

I'd say now would be a good time. Your car is holding its value quite well and 2016 30kWh Leafs can be brought in spectacularly cheap (see slave1's car). As always though with the best bargains, your wish list needs to be small / non-existent wrt colour / spec / speed of AC charger, etc.

isnottheword

unkel wrote: »

I'd say now would be a good time. Your car is holding its value quite well and 2016 30kWh Leafs can be brought in spectacularly cheap (see slave1's car). As always though with the best bargains, your wish list needs to be small / non-existent wrt colour / spec / speed of AC charger, etc.

hmm...interesting.

So...2014 (one day off a 142) Acenta -24kW with 6.6kW OBC, 90k KM , clean - no scratches/blemishes - private sale.

What do you think can be achieved?

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

The 30 Kwh Leaf has more than 80 miles range...... :P

EPA range of the 24kWh Leaf is 73 miles. That was the original one, I believe it's a bit more for the current 24kWh Leaf. Still a very limited range, by far the shortest range of any EV for sale today.

isnottheword wrote: »

So...2014 (one day off a 142) Acenta -24kW with 6.6kW OBC, 90k KM , clean - no scratches/blemishes - private sale.

What do you think can be achieved?

I really wouldn't know. Sounds like a decent car. There are obviously a lot of unknowns coming our way and if you are really concerned about range of your car I'd say upping it sooner rather than later would be your best bet.

isnottheword

unkel wrote: »

I really wouldn't know. Sounds like a decent car. There are obviously a lot of unknowns coming our way and if you are really concerned about range of your car I'd say upping it sooner rather than later would be your best bet.

Well, that's the imponderable.

Right now, range is of no concern. When (fee)charging comes into play, the savvy scenario with my usage pattern is to be in a position to do (practically) all my charging on nightrate at home.

Perhaps I wait it out and see what gets implemented. At the end of the day, this car may better suit someone with a much lower usage/mileage profile at that point....

I guess this isn't a precise art - albeit that human nature dictates that we all want to make savvy choices....(whether we actually do or not remains to be seen ...that said I also accept that different circumstances and preferences apply to each individual).

unkel

Waiting to see what happens might very well prove to be the best choice!

isnottheword wrote: »

human nature dictates that we all want to make savvy choices....

I wonder about that. Many, even most people I observe around me seem to make terribly unsavvy choices. Choices based on hearsay, the man in the pub, the sales man, etc. And limiting their view / choice to what everyone else around them is doing. If people were a bit more open minded and had more respect for their own choice making, I guess for one, EV ownership would be more wide spread

isnottheword

unkel wrote: »

Waiting to see what happens might very well prove to be the best choice!

I think you're probably right.

unkel wrote: »

I wonder about that. Many, even most people I observe around me seem to make terribly unsavvy choices. Choices based on hearsay, the man in the pub, the sales man, etc. And limiting their view / choice to what everyone else around them is doing. If people were a bit more open minded and had more respect for their own choice making, I guess for one, EV ownership would be more wide spread

Well, I don't think that we all get it right all of the time. I think it's normal for us all to wonder at the decision making of others - but then there isn't always a one-size-fits-all answer. Some folk place higher values on certain features. For me, value for money is first and foremost - but that doesn't make me smart (nor does it mean that I end up achieving the best deal in terms of 'value for money' either).
As an example, I'd baulk at the idea of buying new (i guess unless I suddenly became very financially secure). However, whilst that may still not be the best option for my particular circumstances, you sniffing out a bargain in a new EV (based on the premise that what you've bought is cheaper here than elsewhere in europe) is pretty impressive.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

EPA range of the 24kWh Leaf is 73 miles. That was the original one, I believe it's a bit more for the current 24kWh Leaf. Still a very limited range, by far the shortest range of any EV for sale today.

Not really, E-Golf, Zoe, I3 all similar range. All due battery upgrades soon and the New Leaf on the way.

You didn't count the 30 Kwh Leaf in your original post...... which has more range than the current Zoe, I3, E-Golf.

Your original post "The "only" EV for sale these days that can't do a 80 mile round trip is the Leaf BTW" could be quiet misleading for people who do not know the different 24 Kwh + 30 Kwh (107 EPA miles) battery options in the leaf. So haha to you Sir Unkel ! :P

cros13

fennor72 wrote: »

Your point does make good sense. I might hold on and see what the new Leaf is like. We are already 3 months into the year so it might be worth waiting. Is September a definite confirm for the Leaf

While the announcement will be September, the first cars won't hit the road in Ireland until late December / early January.

Deleted User wrote: »

Not really, E-Golf, Zoe, I3 all similar range. All due battery upgrades soon and the New Leaf on the way.

You didn't count the 30 Kwh Leaf in your original post...... which has more range than the current Zoe, I3, E-Golf.

*cough* the current Zoe is the 41kWh, current i3 is the 34kWh and since there's no stock in Ireland we can consider the 36kWh eGolf to be the current version. All have EPA rated (or equivalent) ranges well over the 172km of the 30kWh Leaf. 270km for the Zoe, 184km for the i3 and 200km for the e-Golf.

Calahonda52

fennor72 wrote: »

Thanks for all the encouraging posts. My trip each day is 55km each way so range was a concern as was obviously cost so again thank you for your honest opinions.
To be honest I haven't considered the leaf as I kind of fell for the ioniq as soon as I saw it.

Wish you well in your decision making:
will share a few thoughts here on mine so as they might help.

I took Leaf SVE for a 24 hr test drive and liked it from the off: nice high seat, plenty headroom and not banging my head on entry/exit
Sat in the Ioniq, banged the head etc so it was dismissed.

Liked the front charging point as opposed to the one on the Ioniq, which has a flap which stays open along the side of the car. Makes access to the public charging system easier, as well as my home charging point.
Liked the deep boot in the leaf vs the Ioniq.

Sat in the BMW i3 but the Cuckoos Nest-esque back doors killed it, as well as the drivers seat was not that comfy vs the Leaf.
However it is a substantial build.
I was a bit anti-BMW anyway after very bad experiences with servicing costs on a K1100

So why the middle Leaf and not the top of range:
audio box in the boot.
don't like leather.

When test driving, the garage will give you the top of the range product so don't get unwittingly sucked in by the extras: e.g. the SVE has a all look around camera.
HTH

Evd-Burner

Deleted User wrote:

OP, what I'd want to know is the actual cost over five years.

This is what I did with my mondeo when buying a 132 second hand leaf. Including all loans and running costs over the 5 years I will save €5000. But at the end of the 5 years the leaf will be worth more then the mondeo. And every month after the 5 years I will save close to €400.

There is only one thing that would make me but new and that would be autopilot.

Calahonda52

Evd-Burner wrote: »

This is what I did with my mondeo when buying a 132 second hand leaf. Including all loans and running costs over the 5 years I will save €5000. But at the end of the 5 years the leaf will be worth more then the mondeo. And every month after the 5 years I will save close to €400.

There is only one thing that would make me but new and that would be autopilot.

It may be worth more than the mondeo but won't be a lot as the technology improves.
I bought new last week, knowing that Nissan were about to announce a new one for later this year or early 2018.
I reckon when the new one is released here, coupled with the move to CCS charging my one with be worth about half what I paid for it, if even that.

However I have zero concerns in that regard.

unkel

isnottheword wrote: »

For me, value for money is first and foremost .

Value for money is the only God I worship

unkel

Calahonda52 wrote: »

coupled with the move to CCS charging

I don't think that takes away value from your Leaf at all. CHAdeMO still has better coverage in this country and they are hardly going to take CHAdeMO chargers away with the Leaf by far the most common EV in Ireland at the moment and probably for the next few years to come too.

Will your car suffer big depreciation in the first year or two? Probably, but who cares. You don't, you've done your sums, you're gonna keep the car for much longer than a year or two and the car is already saving you money. And doing your bit for the environment and against cancer. It's all good

unkel

unkel wrote: »

And just 73 miles for the earlier 24kw Leaf

Someone asking about the total cost of buying a new Ioniq (I paid €25k) compared to keeping your old car? Well I'm driving an old car worth nothing with zero depreciation and I do the maintenance myself, so almost zero maintenance. Comparing this car to a new Ioniq (keeping for 6 years):

Fuel + tax + depreciation current car: 3000 + 1700 + 0 = 4700 per year
Fuel + tax + depreciation brand new Ioniq: 200 + 120 + (25000-5000)/6 = 3653 per year

Buying a brand new car is saving me €1,000 per year compared to keeping my old worthless banger...

Maybe I miss something This doesn't include the cost of the new car?

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe I miss something This doesn't include the cost of the new car?

Yes it does! Cost of the new car is €25k. Worth €5k after 6 years, so depreciation is €3,333 per year

Far, far cheaper to buy a brand new EV car than to keep driving my old petrol banger

And for all of you out there driving cancer causing diesels, please, please, do the right thing, scrap your diesel and buy an EV.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

And for all of you out there driving cancer causing diesels, please, please, do the right thing, scrap your diesel and buy an EV.

Your like one of those smokers who quit and then they go crazy being around other smokers!

DrPhilG

KCross wrote: »

Your like one of those smokers who quit and then they go crazy being around other smokers!

Yep, none more anti-smoke than an ex smoker.

Same for fatties. None with less sympathy for fatties than an ex-fatty.

I speak as an ex-fatty. Once you've put your mind to it and lost nearly 5 stone it's hard to have sympathy for people who moan that they have tried all the diets and "just can't lose weight".

Back on EVs... I was talking to a friend yesterday who works in Hyundai. He was laughing at the attitude of others he works with who swear they would never go electric because it's too much hassle to plug it in at home overnight!

Calahonda52

DrPhilG wrote: »

Back on EVs... I was talking to a friend yesterday who works in Hyundai. He was laughing at the attitude of others he works with who swear they would never go electric because it's too much hassle to plug it in at home overnight!

Maybe the cars have a headache

unkel

KCross wrote: »

Your like one of those smokers who quit and then they go crazy being around other smokers!

Haha, I am an ex-smoker but I'm not like this at all with people who still smoke. In fact I still love the smell of it

BoatMad

fennor72 wrote: »

Hi
I'm seriously considering changing from my very reliable 10 year old focus petrol to a EV, currently it's costing between 50 and 60 euros a week on fuel. I really like the look of the new ioniq but I would like some honest advice on whether such a car would suit my driving needs.
My daily commute to work is 110 km return, 5 days a week all motorway. At the weekend the car is hardly ever used.
I know the range on the ioniq is supposed to be nearly 300km but ioniq owners what's the real range?
Also running costs? I would have to charge the car every night for 5 or 6 days a week and are home charge points still installed free? And how much would say a nightly charge cost?
I'm sorry about all the questions but I'm trying to weigh up the pros and cons.

ideal candidate for a 30 Kw Leaf or Iconic, we do 130Km each day all on motorways ( we drive at 105Kmph) . We have a charger at work , but the car can do the round trip without it

we are saving in excess of 500 euros a month on fuel.

BoatMad

Back on EVs... I was talking to a friend yesterday who works in Hyundai. He was laughing at the attitude of others he works with who swear they would never go electric because it's too much hassle to plug it in at home overnight!

I timed mine, 18 seconds average to plug in at home ( I have a tethered EVSE). Most non electric people just have no idea what they are talking about

DrPhilG

BoatMad wrote: »

Most non electric people just have no idea what they are talking about

Precisely.

The only delay for me is that I have to reverse into the garage as my charger is mounted inside.

But it is ridiculous. There are many drawbacks to EV driving. Range anxiety, functional charger anxiety, reliance on the network for long trips etc. I acknowledge those issues, but for me the saving of over €2k a year, plus the pleasure of driving an EV is more than worth it.

Having to plug in at home every night is the worst excuse ever for not having an EV.

I wonder do these people still use Nokia 3210s to reduce the arduous slog of having to charge their smart phone every night.

oppenheimer1

Deleted User wrote: »

Indeed, if saving money is the object then keep the Focus, however if buying new or nearly new the EV makes perfect sense.

I'd be a bit cautious about buying a Diesel now because you just don't know what will happen the 2nd hand market in a few years with new emissions regulations to take effect and possible restrictions on diesels in towns and cities though probably wouldn't happen in Ireland as most politicians probably drive diesel themselves and probably think of electric cars as RC Toys. But it's more than possible the Manufacturers themselves will have to increase the cost of diesels or just abandon them, E.U regulation may even dictate it.

If you can't wait until the Release of Leaf II in September, then a 2nd hand 30 Kwh Leaf is a good bet and also charges faster from the fast chargers, though not as fast as the Ioniq it's still faster than the 24 Kwh leaf.

You could say the exact same about an EV to be honest. Second hand EV values in Ireland are still a relative unknown but more importantly if EV's have widespread adoption then there will be a corresponding increase in taxation. This will be through road pricing, electric car tax or some other means (such as battery leasing and mileage figures have to be declared quarterly and billed accordingly).

There is simply no way the EV low cost motoring regime will continue for long if there is real uptake as it will hurt government revenue and lead to choking levels of road congestion. At the moment EV is niche and can do a lot, but it is very much a compromised driving experience.

Diesel and petrol will be around until there is an EV that can do 8hrs driving at motorway speed with all the toys turned on.

isnottheword

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

You could say the exact same about an EV to be honest. Second hand EV values in Ireland are still a relative unknown

Quite true - albeit it depends at what price-point you buy in at.

Current EV's will still have a certain residual value as they are going to be a good prospect to the right segment of customers.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

but more importantly if EV's have widespread adoption then there will be a corresponding increase in taxation. This will be through road pricing, electric car tax or some other means (such as battery leasing and mileage figures have to be declared quarterly and billed accordingly).

Absolutely guaranteed. However, we are nowhere near having to worry about that for a few years at least.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

There is simply no way the EV low cost motoring regime will continue for long if there is real uptake as it will hurt government revenue and lead to choking levels of road congestion. At the moment EV is niche and can do a lot, but it is very much a compromised driving experience.

Once again, you have nothing to worry about in this regard. There isn't even a full 1% of the national fleet on EV yet.

KCross

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Diesel and petrol will be around until there is an EV that can do 8hrs driving at motorway speed with all the toys turned on.

^ You were doing so well until you said this!

What have you based the 8hrs on? Who does 8hrs of motorway driving in one day in this country? Even if there is such an individual its very rare.

I predict diesel will be "gone" long before your yardstick is achieved.

oppenheimer1

KCross wrote: »

^ You were doing so well until you said this!

What have you based the 8hrs on? Who does 8hrs of motorway driving in one day in this country? Even if there is such an individual its very rare.

I predict diesel will be "gone" long before your yardstick is achieved.

I never said in this country!

EV will remain niche here until the likes of a Dublin Cork return spin is possible at motorway speed, without stopping, or the cost of alternates is prohibitively expensive. Range anxiety will remain a barrier and hold back mass uptake.

EV is great if you only do short commuting and makes complete sense for those people. It does negate one of the huge advantages of car ownership and that is freedom. You do not have the same freedom in an EV as you do in an ICE but the lower running cost is compensation for this.

I couldn't have a vehicle that couldn't take me on a long journey at top speed at short notice. Yes it's something I might never need, but it's better to have and not want than to want and not have.