Am I suitable for an EV....honestly?

peposhi

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I wake up every morning and there is between 500 and 1400 km in my tank which gives me even more freedom. I will concede that it costs a lot more though.

Well it does cost you a lot more... but think how much it costs the Earth to run your car on diesel/petrol...

oppenheimer1

peposhi wrote: »

Well it does cost you a lot more... but think how much it costs the Earth to run your car on diesel/petrol...

There are not insignificant environmental costs associated with EV driving too, but that's not a debate to be brought into this thread.

pwurple

The hard-core hippies won't be swayed by the 'earth' thing. The cars are still made out of plastic (oil) and metal (mined) and shipped across the globe in diesel powered ships. Unless you're powering them off grid, with solar / wind, you're burning 12% coal to create the electricity. I know that's better than diesel or petrol, but it's still not leg / wind / solar.
True hippies have a bicycle or maybe a horse, or just stay put on their allotment. Defo not an EV.

And I say that as an EV driver for years, partial tree-hugger, powering off-grid from wind. 
My motivation was entirely financial.  Every way I did the figures, for my travel pattern, it was substantially cheaper to run a brand new EV than it was to maintain my petrol car on a monthly basis.
My main tool for travel assessment, was the location services on my phone. I can see every journey I've taken in the last 3 years from my location history. Only 1 journey had been outside the range of the car in that time period.  
We bought new, it cost ~20k because we included bells and whistles. As I paid for it from savings, the car is now "earning"/saving us 700 a year tax, 700 a year service / maintenance and somewhere between 3000 and 4000 fuel (yes, my car was a guzzler).  That worked out to an extra 400 euro coming into our monthly family budget, just from changing the car. What kind of pay rise is that equivalent to? It will have completely paid for itself with those savings, assuming a depreciation to zero,  4.2 years after purchase. We're at just over 2 years now.. if a 151 LEAF SV is currently worth anything more than 10k, it's in the black.   I intend to keep it for ~ten years, and maybe teach my kids to drive in it. 

Financially, it's a no brainer. 
Environmentally... middle of the road, it can't quite compete with a bicycle.

BoatMad

I intend to keep it for ~ten years

on an original battery , I suspect it will be very depleted by then , Li lifecycle tends too fall off a cliff after a certain point

BoatMad

There are not insignificant environmental costs associated with EV driving too, but that's not a debate to be brought into this thread.

I would point out that the issue with ICE is pollution delivered at the point of driving , thats the issue , the larger issue of total C02/pollutants over the lifecycle including fuel production , transport etc is really irrelevant

EVs deliver no pollution at the point of driving

Thats it for me

fennor72

Hi I test drove the ioniq today and was blown away by it. As a lifelong petrol and diesel car driver I could not get over how quiet it was and the speed of it was unbelievable.
But a few things the salesman said I'm not so sure about. Firstly can anyone tell
me how much the all electric version is. He quoted me nearly 40k with 5k off grant and then trade in which for me would still be in the region of 30k to change. I actually thought it was 34k new as then minus the deductions.
Also he said the home charge point could be a quick charge of less than an hour for 80% battery and I wouldn't have to leave it charging overnight. And that charge point was free installed. The battery was guaranteed for 8 years with unlimited milage. These are the few points I'm not sure about. Can anyone please confirm these?

unkel

He's looking for far too much money and he is completely wrong about the home charger. It will charge the car in 8 hours (free charger) or 4 hours if you pay for it to be upgraded

fennor72

Hi I test drove the ioniq today and was blown away by it. As a lifelong petrol and diesel car driver I could not get over how quiet it was and the speed of it was unbelievable. However I was told a few things by the salesman that I'm not so sure about. Firstly can anyone tell me how much the all electric version is he quoted me nearly 40k and then minus the 5k grant and a trade in I would still be looking at 30k. I thought the price was around 34k.
He told me a home charge point could be a quick charge point installed free of charge and that less than an hour charge would give me 80% battery life so I wouldn't have to leave the car charging overnight.
The battery was guaranteed for 8hrs unlimited mileage.
Can anyone confirm this as I was well impressed by the car

fennor72

unkel wrote:

He's looking for far too much money and he is completely wrong about the home charger. It will charge the car in 8 hours (free charger) or 4 hours if you pay for it to be upgraded

So am I about right in saying about 34k minus the 5k grant and trade in. I thought it was a higher spec version, it had heated seats, cruise control, gps etc but from what I understood that was the only spec for the electric version.
He said the hybrid was 34k.

Shefwedfan

fennor72 wrote: »

Hi I test drove the ioniq today and was blown away by it. As a lifelong petrol and diesel car driver I could not get over how quiet it was and the speed of it was unbelievable. However I was told a few things by the salesman that I'm not so sure about. Firstly can anyone tell me how much the all electric version is he quoted me nearly 40k and then minus the 5k grant and a trade in I would still be looking at 30k. I thought the price was around 34k.
He told me a home charge point could be a quick charge point installed free of charge and that less than an hour charge would give me 80% battery life so I wouldn't have to leave the car charging overnight.
The battery was guaranteed for 8hrs unlimited mileage.
Can anyone confirm this as I was well impressed by the car

I got quoted 11,500 for trade in and then 15,500 cash. So in total I was looking at 27k for electric Ioniq

It was white non metallic version

fennor72

Yes they seem to have it backwards in the showroom according to the hyundai website the hybrid costs more than the electric

unkel

fennor72 wrote: »

So am I about right in saying about 34k minus the 5k grant and trade in. I thought it was a higher spec version, it had heated seats, cruise control, gps etc but from what I understood that was the only spec for the electric version.
He said the hybrid was 34k.

Now you are confusing me. Were you looking at the hybrid or the fully electric? The fully electric has a full recommended retail price of €28,495. If you scrap your worthless banger, you get another €4k off this, so €24,495

Plus delivery and related charges. Plus metallic paint, if like me you don't like white. Minus any further discount you negotiate

There are no heated seats on the fully electric. Not even as an option

Sounds like the dealer hasn't a clue what he is talking about. Talk to another dealer. Most Dublin based ones seem to be more savvy. Do expect long, or very long delays though. Last I heard is if you don't get a cancellation and don't want white, we are talking October. And sales in the US start on 01/04/2017. This will make things worse, far worse as I expect it to be a very popular car there...

BTW the hybrid does cost more than the electric although the latter is far more expensive to make. You get €10k subsidy on the electric (€5k pure subsidy and €5k reduction of the VRT) :cool:

thelikelylad

unkel wrote: »

There are no heated seats on the fully electric. Not even as an option

Front heated seats are standard! They heat up nice and quickly too!

unkel

Damn you're right!

I would have preferred another €50 off the price if I'm honest

cros13

He's also wrong on the warranty. It's 8 years / 200,000km not unlimited.... Jeeesus do these lads have clue about the cars they are selling?

If you are in the midlands... one of the lads in Fitzpatrick's tullamore isn't bad... and they've got the right price up.

fennor72

unkel wrote:

Now you are confusing me. Were you looking at the hybrid or the fully electric? The fully electric has a full recommended retail price of €28,495. If you scrap your worthless banger, you get another €4k off this, so €24,495

I was looking at the full electric. When we came back from the test drive he showed me the price on display in the showroom. It had the electric version at €39995 and the hybrid at 34995. I'm going to double check at the weekend because he was so definate and he took me by surprise with the price.

cros13

fennor72 wrote: »

I was looking at the full electric. When we came back from the test drive he showed me the price on display in the showroom. It had the electric version at €39995 and the hybrid at 34995. I'm going to double check at the weekend because he was so definate and he took me by surprise with the price.

I'd report him to Hyundai Ireland for that. If you want to let me know over PM the dealer, I can make the complaint.

The real RRPs are on the Hyundai website (excluding the delivery fees):

http://www.hyundai.ie/ioniq/

€31,995 for the Hybrid
€28,495 for the EV

If they are advertising a different price Hyundai Ireland would be none too happy.

The grants and credits are the dealer's to claim, the price on the website + delivery and registration fees of a few hundred minus whatever scrappage/discount you get is the price you pay.

It's inconceivable anyone would have to pay €30k for an Ioniq EV under any circumstances including a commercial sale.

thelikelylad

cros13 wrote: »

I'd report him to Hyundai Ireland for that. If you want to let me know over PM the dealer, I can make the complaint.

The real RRPs are on the Hyundai website (excluding the delivery fees):

http://www.hyundai.ie/ioniq/

€31,995 for the Hybrid
€28,495 for the EV

If they are advertising a different price Hyundai Ireland would be none too happy.

The grants and credits are the dealer's to claim, the price on the website + delivery and registration fees of a few hundred minus whatever scrappage/discount you get is the price you pay.

It's inconceivable anyone would have to pay €30k for an Ioniq EV under any circumstances including a commercial sale.

One dealer actually quoted me €30,500 on the road after all incentives. Pretty sure that was without metallic paint too.

Anyone got an email address for Hyundai Ireland?

cros13

I'll PM you both the right place to hit to get results

fennor72

cros13 wrote:

I'd report him to Hyundai Ireland for that. If you want to let me know over PM the dealer, I can make the complaint.

cros13 wrote:

The real RRPs are on the Hyundai website (excluding the delivery fees):

cros13 wrote:

€31,995 for the Hybrid €28,495 for the EV

That's why I'm going to check again at the weekend. I'm doubting what I saw

slave1

I don't think dealers are interested in EV's, the wife was offered €2.5k trade in against a new Leaf despite the scrappage of €4k minimum, servicing and minor repairs are the bread and butter of a garage, EV's will hopefully reduce those costs considerably and garages will lose out...

listermint

slave1 wrote: »

I don't think dealers are interested in EV's, the wife was offered €2.5k trade in against a new Leaf despite the scrappage of €4k minimum, servicing and minor repairs are the bread and butter of a garage, EV's will hopefully reduce those costs considerably and garages will lose out...

Em.. did you ask about scrappage.....

goz83

slave1 wrote: »

I don't think dealers are interested in EV's, the wife was offered €2.5k trade in against a new Leaf despite the scrappage of €4k minimum, servicing and minor repairs are the bread and butter of a garage, EV's will hopefully reduce those costs considerably and garages will lose out...

I do agree with you and I do think garages are thinking solely about lack of servicing and upkeep. What they are failing to realise is that people are more likely to go to a main dealer for a service if the costs are low. So, while they might get less for a service, more people might choose to get a service at a main dealer, rather than doing it themselves, or getting the local indy to do it. In the long term, it should balance out for them.

pwurple

BoatMad wrote: »

I intend to keep it for ~ten years

on an original battery , I suspect it will be very depleted by then , Li lifecycle tends too fall off a cliff after a certain point

What's that point I wonder. It's a risk we have taken, we will see how it goes, but so far so good on a 151 car. Better than I expected anyway.  It's April of 2017 now, and we got it Feb 2015. Battery readout this morning on leafspy was showing 98% state of health and a balanced set of cells. If it was going to deplete completely by ten years, should I have seen a 20% or 10% reduction in capacity by now? Indicators are that Ireland's climate is surprisingly good for running EVs, as the battery does not experience massive temperature fluctuations. And I drive mostly in traffic, so there is no huge draw on the battery.

Time will tell anyway.

unkel

goz83 wrote: »

people are more likely to go to a main dealer for a service if the costs are low. So, while they might get less for a service, more people might choose to get a service at a main dealer, rather than doing it themselves, or getting the local indy to do it. In the long term, it should balance out for them.

I can't see that. People bring their new car to the main dealer for a service anywyay and with the typical service of an EV costing €99 and pretty much never needing much else, the main dealer is going to make feck all money on EV maintenance

If they are smart, they will have to think long and hard about this. It's going to change their business and they will have to think of other ways to get in revenue

BoatMad

pwurple wrote: »

What's that point I wonder. It's a risk we have taken, we will see how it goes, but so far so good on a 151 car. Better than I expected anyway.  It's April of 2017 now, and we got it Feb 2015. Battery readout this morning on leafspy was showing 98% state of health and a balanced set of cells. If it was going to deplete completely by ten years, should I have seen a 20% or 10% reduction in capacity by now? Indicators are that Ireland's climate is surprisingly good for running EVs, as the battery does not experience massive temperature fluctuations. And I drive mostly in traffic, so there is no huge draw on the battery.

Time will tell anyway.

yes time will tell, but habe a goggle at Li lifecycle graphs, they are nothing like linear, typically inverted hockey stick instead , i.e. there is a slow degradation , followed by a rapid loss of capacity

certainly were I looking at ten years, I would be factoring in a battery replacement of certain cells

goz83

unkel wrote: »

I can't see that. People bring their new car to the main dealer for a service anywyay and with the typical service of an EV costing €99 and pretty much never needing much else, the main dealer is going to make feck all money on EV maintenance

If they are smart, they will have to think long and hard about this. It's going to change their business and they will have to think of other ways to get in revenue

A change in the way they think is certainly needed. Maybe they should look to see what changes Norway have brought in. If they put in even a little effort, they could make it work in their favour. Motorists avoid main dealers after the warranty period because main dealers are seen as rip-off merchants.

lob020

Thoughts?
Changing from 1.2 petrol approx usage 10000 kms per annum to 2016 bmw i3 24k with rapid charger.heat pack not included..do not have chargepoint at home however comes with granny cable to charge from 3 pin domestic socket .which I will have to have installed outside.I do not use car everyday and wife will use for shops and local stuff.we would do approx 6 longer trips in a year (over 200 miles round).pickups at airport approx 90 kms (round).and at least 1or 2 80 kms (round) per week.there are rapid chargepoints locally .the car is a bit small for golf clubs.but with back seats down fits ok.I'm wondering about depreciation. Will the car be worth anything in 3/4 years?.maintenance costs as I have heard parts are costly.Software updatesNew tyres as I believe they do not last long on i3.insurance _is it more expensive. Sorry for rambling .I'm not in any way technical. How would i know if car had been in crash previously ?So I'm sure I have terminology wrong.appreciate comments feedback thanks

Shefwedfan

lob020 wrote: »

Thoughts?
Changing from 1.2 petrol approx usage 10000 kms per annum to 2016 bmw i3 24k with rapid charger.heat pack not included..do not have chargepoint at home however comes with granny cable to charge from 3 pin domestic socket .which I will have to have installed outside.I do not use car everyday and wife will use for shops and local stuff.we would do approx 6 longer trips in a year (over 200 miles round).pickups at airport approx 90 kms (round).and at least 1or 2 80 kms (round) per week.there are rapid chargepoints locally .the car is a bit small for golf clubs.but with back seats down fits ok.I'm wondering about depreciation. Will the car be worth anything in 3/4 years?.maintenance costs as I have heard parts are costly.Software updatesNew tyres as I believe they do not last long on i3.insurance _is it more expensive. Sorry for rambling .I'm not in any way technical. How would i know if car had been in crash previously ?So I'm sure I have terminology wrong.appreciate comments feedback thanks

God that is difficult to read....paragraphs and punctuation can be used on board

If you are getting external plug fitted why not just get a charge point installed? It will probably cost you similar money. Personally I would never rely on a system that is put in place to help electric car users not to fully support them.

For longer trips you just need to plan out journey and check charge points.

From what I can see the service costs are cheaper than standard petrol/diesel.

To check if car is crashed is the same as checking on any other car. You would hope to have a better chance of not getting crashed car with electric to be honest. Less cars on road and garages have to do service so should be picked up versus standard car that you can get fixed in any back street garage

No idea on tires. Insurance no idea as I just paid a swap fee. Renewal is not up till later this year and company would not give me indication of what cost would be.

Dont know the size of BMW so can't comment about the boot size.

goz83

I had to fix your post for the benefit and sanity of others

lob020 wrote: »

Thoughts?
Changing from 1.2 petrol. approx usage 10k kms per annum.

looking at 2016 BMW i3 (24k) with rapid charger. Heat pack not included.

I do not have chargepoint at home, however the car comes with granny cable to charge from 3 pin domestic socket. I will have to have a socket installed outside.

I do not use car everyday and wife will use for shops and local stuff. We would do approx 6 longer trips in a year (over 200 miles round). Pickups at airport approx 90 kms (round) and at least 1 or 2 80klms (round) per week.

There are rapid chargepoints locally. The car is a bit small for golf clubs, but with back seats down they fit.

I'm wondering about depreciation. Will the car be worth anything in 3/4 years?

Maintenance costs I also wonder about, as I have heard parts are costly. What about software updates and new tyres, as I believe they do not last long on i3.

Insurance, is it more expensive?

Sorry for rambling . I'm not in any way technical. How would i know if car had been in crash previously? So I'm sure I have terminology wrong. Appreciate comments and feedback. Thanks

i3 is a lovely car. Any reason you are considering it over a Hyundai Ioniq, or a 30KW Nissan Leaf?

If you can live with the longer charge times with a granny cable, then that's fine. I would recommend a Charge Point though, especially if you want faster charging at home. You will then possibly need a priority switch if you have an electric shower. All this will cost up to 1k, but is a good investment.

Aside from the 200 Mile rounders, you will manage the other trips without using any public chargers at all. The 200 mile trip will likely end up with you being able to plug in at your destination point anyway and you can charge the battery there. You can use a Fast Charge Point to get you 80% battery in a half hour or less.

Depreciation is high, but will usually be well off set by the fuel savings. I do similar miles to you and got a 2014 Leaf 2 weeks ago. I love it.

Maintenance will be less....as there is less to maintain. Tyres will wear down faster due to higher torque, but brakes will last longer. If you have crash damage, it will be just as expensive as a similarly priced car.

Insurance will be less. I got a refund of €48 on my insurance which was over halfway through....so was about 15% cheaper, but I expect cheaper on Renewal.

Don't worry about the rambling. Just try put your posts together more clearly for us next time.