Metro/Tram Service in Cork City

MrDerp

marno21 wrote: »

I am delighted someone else has come out with this.

By the time this system is up and running, there will be a North Ring Road hopefully built from Blarney through to Ballincollig ending at J1 on the N40 (soon to be M40). There is quite a lot of space here for a park and ride, and with there being a possibility of a new motorway M71 from Ballinhassig to meet the M40 at J1, it would be ideal for a park and ride.

If a light rail service did come about, you could see severe restrictions on cars on streets to facilitate the service. The reason there is no room for bus lanes is due to the road space given over to cars

I didn't allow for the M40 NRR West angle actually, would reasonably be in scope. All the more reason for a mega P&R.

It's the first time I've taken a hard look at this - I think Carrigaline is pie in the sky and Ballincollig would be a future line. We'd all like a single light-rail journey from our doorstep to our place of work, but I think the most cost effective solution will be P&R driven. The city has done its best to to grow south east and south west - we need to push growth to docklands the under-used north to east rail corridor.

CityGate/MP is regrettable from a planning perspective, and UCC/CUMH are legacy problems. My proposed line would be about 13km long and while it would make accessing the city from the West a pain, this is also the corridor it would serve. I'm not sure if there's still room for a P&R at Victoria Cross given the Kingsley development, but perhaps a mixed use office / parking development like at Ballaly LUAS could be pushed.

I would hope that at least the water st bridge would be available to redirect some traffic from the Albert st area - the most problematic crossing.

namloc1980

MrDerp wrote: »

Perhaps?
- CityGate [Old Backrock Line]
- Skehard Rd [Line]
- Blackrock [Line]
- Pairc Ui Chaoimh (Marina)
- Marina Park
- Monahan Rd
- South Link* OR Custom House Quay**

South link feels like a dead end without a tunnel. Could go up Copley st and Sullivan's quay to South Gate bridge, then to event centre but no way to hard turn west from here. Gets messy if it continues to St Finbarr's too in terms of fully closing roads to traffic.

From Custom House Quay [Change here for Irish rail, via new footbridge to Horgan's Quay]
- South Mall (via lapps quay)
- Grand Parade
- Washington St (Is left turn possible? Traffic restrictions?)
- UCC (Western Rd)
- Victoria X
- CUH (Serious garden CPO trimming required length of Wilton Rd)
- Bishopstown
- Curraheen P&R
- Ballincollig (promised later)

*From Kennedy park turn through marina terrace and cut through Shalom park. CPO areas either side of south link (OB Bathrooms, Modern Tyres etc and bits of crap on the other side) Cross the link or attempt a simple under pass with a portal from shalom park to other side (horrific to build, but link has to be crossed somewhere), or do it on stilts!

In the 2010 report the route crossed the Lee by way of a new public transport bridge crossing from the south docklands at Mill road over to Kent station. It then went westbound down Alfred Street and McCurtain Street and across Patk bridge. The eastbound tracks went down Merchant's Quay and crossed over a revamped Brian Boru bridge and joined up with the westbound section by way of the short pedestrian walkway at Brian Boru street. I believe this is the option that the docklands transport study will also recommend when released later this year.

It then went down Patk Street and turned into Grand Parade and then Washington St. Again the east and west bound segments split. Westbound carried on out the western road. Eastbound would go via dyke parade/sheares st. Then Victoria X, Wilton Rd, CUH, Bishopstown, future Cork technology Park @ Curraheen with provision to extend to Ballincollig.

MrDerp

namloc1980 wrote: »

In the 2010 report the route crossed the Lee by way of a new public transport bridge crossing from the south docklands at Mill road over to Kent station. It then went westbound down Alfred Street and McCurtain Street and across Patk bridge. The eastbound tracks went down Merchant's Quay and crossed over a revamped Brian Boru bridge and joined up with the westbound section by way of the short pedestrian walkway at Brian Boru street. I believe this is the option that the docklands transport study will also recommend when released later this year.

It then went down Patk Street and turned into Grand Parade and then Washington St. Again the east and west bound segments split. Westbound carried on out the western road. Eastbound would go via dyke parade/sheares st. Then Victoria X, Wilton Rd, CUH, Bishopstown, future Cork technology Park @ Curraheen with provision to extend to Ballincollig.

Cheers Must dig that out from somewhere, sounds cleaner than crossing/joining victoria road. Was Patrick st fully pedestrianised in that scenario? Perhaps shared bus/tram lanes? Messy turn at grand parade but doable I guess.

I guess the Markdyke and Western Road could then run on segregated sections. Western Road would have to forego a bus lane and have a fully signalised left turn onto dyke parade inbound. Would have to forego bus lanes on this route but the no.8 to bishopstown would be defunct anyway at this point.

The crayons make more sense now with the bridge you mentioned - and provides a harder link to kent station as well as breathing a bit of life into the 'victorian quarter'

AugustusMinimus

namloc1980 wrote: »

In the 2010 report the route crossed the Lee by way of a new public transport bridge crossing from the south docklands at Mill road over to Kent station. It then went westbound down Alfred Street and McCurtain Street and across Patk bridge. The eastbound tracks went down Merchant's Quay and crossed over a revamped Brian Boru bridge and joined up with the westbound section by way of the short pedestrian walkway at Brian Boru street. I believe this is the option that the docklands transport study will also recommend when released later this year.

It then went down Patk Street and turned into Grand Parade and then Washington St. Again the east and west bound segments split. Westbound carried on out the western road. Eastbound would go via dyke parade/sheares st. Then Victoria X, Wilton Rd, CUH, Bishopstown, future Cork technology Park @ Curraheen with provision to extend to Ballincollig.

So the line crossed the Lee at Mill street to continue Westbound along McCurtain Street and then across Patrick Bridge. Why would it then turn left to go eastbound again?

You also note that there would be a short pedestrian walkway at Brian Boru bridge. Would there actually be 2 lines?

namloc1980

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

So the line crossed the Lee at Mill street to continue Westbound along McCurtain Street and then across Patrick Bridge. Why would it then turn left to go eastbound again?

You also note that there would be a short pedestrian walkway at Brian Boru bridge. Would there actually be 2 lines?

I didn't say it would turn eastbound again. See attached

AugustusMinimus

namloc1980 wrote: »

I didn't say it would turn eastbound again. See attached

Get ya. The westbound and eastbound lines split apart for a while.

namloc1980

MrDerp wrote: »

Cheers Must dig that out from somewhere, sounds cleaner than crossing/joining victoria road. Was Patrick st fully pedestrianised in that scenario? Perhaps shared bus/tram lanes? Messy turn at grand parade but doable I guess.

I guess the Markdyke and Western Road could then run on segregated sections. Western Road would have to forego a bus lane and have a fully signalised left turn onto dyke parade inbound. Would have to forego bus lanes on this route but the no.8 to bishopstown would be defunct anyway at this point.

The crayons make more sense now with the bridge you mentioned - and provides a harder link to kent station as well as breathing a bit of life into the 'victorian quarter'

As you mention the pedestrianisation of Patrick Street, that is due to begin in March. The ultimate goal is that Patrick Street will be a pedestrian/public transport corridor only.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Patricks-Street-car-ban-to-begin-in-March-ced49c79-59d1-408e-b527-01944d457aed-ds

namloc1980

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Get ya. The westbound and eastbound lines split apart for a while.

Yeah like the new Luas line extension in Dublin around O'Connell Street.

j8wk2feszrnpao

namloc1980 wrote: »

As you mention the pedestrianisation of Patrick Street, that is due to begin in March. The ultimate goal is that Patrick Street will be a pedestrian/public transport corridor only.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Patricks-Street-car-ban-to-begin-in-March-ced49c79-59d1-408e-b527-01944d457aed-ds

So it'll be buses/cyclists/pedestrians/taxis/emergency-vehicles only on Patrick's Street from 3pm to 6.30pm each day (not sure if this includes Sundays).

Enforcement may be a big issue though.

• No physical barriers.
• CCTV is in place on the street, but won't be used against those who breach the new rules.
• Signage will be rolled out as part of an information campaign.
• Enforcement will be down to the Gardaí.

Interesting to see if this works out long term. It'll def cause some chaos short term as people will have to get used to it. I'm sure they'll be plenty who'll breach the rule given the lack of Gardai you see about the place.

namloc1980

munstermagic11 wrote: »

So it'll be buses/cyclists/pedestrians/taxis/emergency-vehicles only on Patrick's Street from 3pm to 6.30pm each day (not sure if this includes Sundays).

Enforcement may be a big issue though.

• No physical barriers.
• CCTV is in place on the street, but won't be used against those who breach the new rules.
• Signage will be rolled out as part of an information campaign.
• Enforcement will be down to the Gardaí.

Interesting to see if this works out long term. It'll def cause some chaos short term as people will have to get used to it. I'm sure they'll be plenty who'll breach the rule given the lack of Gardai you see about the place.

Absolutely. Enforcement has to be part of it. I'm sure some measures will be in place. But a pedestrianised Patk st will be a great asset to the city. hi

j8wk2feszrnpao

namloc1980 wrote: »

Absolutely. Enforcement has to be part of it. I'm sure some measures will be in place. But a pedestrianised Patk st will be a great asset to the city. hi

Well, in terms of measures, City Hall are doing nothing (informational only, and I wonder how well they'll communicate this); they seem to be passing the buck to the Gardai. I'd like to see the limited resources the Garda appear to have, to not be wasting time on this.

I think this will definitely help the bus services along Patrick Street. But with traffic now diverted to other routes, I'm not sure how well they'll move once off Patrick Street.
Not sure it'll be a great asset yet. Need to see how it all works out. But def worth giving it a shot.

yogmeister

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Well, in terms of measures, City Hall are doing nothing (informational only, and I wonder how well they'll communicate this); they seem to be passing the buck to the Gardai. I'd like to see the limited resources the Garda appear to have, to not be wasting time on this.

Surely the city council traffic wardens should be enforcing this . If not questions need to be asked .

BullBlackNova

As I understand it, the City are essentially treating the road like a bus lane during those hours. Who is responsible for keeping people out of bus lanes - guards or traffic wardens? Genuine question!

I imagine this could work long term but, as has been said, it has the potential for total chaos in the short term - especially if there's no physical change to the streetscape. People who have always driven that way will still expect to be able to unless it's very clear that they can't so will be interested to see how that all works.

unhappyBB

Saw this online last night from https://pbpcork.org/cork-light-rail-system/
Interesting take on it but as usual the north side of the city gets ignored. How is it ever supposed to grow and prosper when even in imaginary transport plans it gets ignored?

Come to think of it, would light rail even be possible up there? It's quite hilly...

AugustusMinimus

unhappyBB wrote: »

Saw this online last night from https://pbpcork.org/cork-light-rail-system/
Interesting take on it but as usual the north side of the city gets ignored. How is it ever supposed to grow and prosper when even in imaginary transport plans it gets ignored?

Come to think of it, would light rail even be possible up there? It's quite hilly...

You answered your own question on the North side.

That route isn’t much good. Misses The event centre, UCC, CUH and CIT.

No need to put it along the Carrigrohane straight either. Plenty of green fields between CIT and Ballincollig which should be used.

Rebelbrowser

unhappyBB wrote: »

Saw this online last night from https://pbpcork.org/cork-light-rail-system/
Interesting take on it but as usual the north side of the city gets ignored. How is it ever supposed to grow and prosper when even in imaginary transport plans it gets ignored?

Come to think of it, would light rail even be possible up there? It's quite hilly...

North side can be serviced somewhat by the long talked of plan to put stations at Blackpool and Monart on the Cork Dublin line.

Otherwise, is there really a need to service Cork airport with its traffic, especially when its line isn't really servicing much else population wise? Of course it would be great for the airport and would be wonderful future proofing but it seems a bit much for now. Servicing actual population densities like Douglas might make more sense?

GavRedKing

I think if it included links to Douglas and Carrigaline it would make more sense given the population in both areas.

whisky_galore

namloc1980 wrote: »

Absolutely. Enforcement has to be part of it. I'm sure some measures will be in place. But a pedestrianised Patk st will be a great asset to the city. hi

Knowing the nature of people here, I think the odd person will chance their arms and attempt to sneak through Pana anyway, the cops will be seen as a paper tiger threat. I think they have quite enough to do already without acting as glorified traffic wardens. There's far bigger fish to fry, actual danger to life and limb on the South Ring which has turned into a demolition derby in the evenings.

bogman

Like the Events Center its not going to happen anytime soon, later even, 10 years down the line it will still be in the discussion phase.

snotboogie

bogman wrote: »

Like the Events Center its not going to happen anytime soon, later even, 10 years down the line it will still be in the discussion phase.

It'll be downgraded to BRT when the study is released over the summer. There isn't the density for an East-West tram and we won't future proof. The future of light rail in Cork will depend on how the BRT is implemented.

MrDerp

unhappyBB wrote: »

Saw this online last night from https://pbpcork.org/cork-light-rail-system/
Interesting take on it but as usual the north side of the city gets ignored. How is it ever supposed to grow and prosper when even in imaginary transport plans it gets ignored?

Come to think of it, would light rail even be possible up there? It's quite hilly...

That routing is nuts. It goes out of its way to miss the city population, the hospitals, and several main centres of employment.

Connecting the airport is pie in the sky too given its proximity to the city and the fact that it's only really busy 3-4 times a day.

I feel like it connects the airport business park by accident and all but misses UCC.

I don't Ballincollig or Carrigaline are priorities. It's cars out of the city, transit between Curraheen (will be a much bigger centre of employment then) and Mahon via the docklands business district.

Curraheen with a P&R is much more beneficial than connecting sprawling satellite towns.

zetalambda

The only viable light rail route in Cork is east/west and the east/west route proposed on this site between the south docks city side and Ballincollig is just bizarre.

theboringfox

zetalambda wrote: »

The only viable light rail route in Cork is east/west and the east/west route proposed on this site between the south docks city side and Ballincollig is just bizarre.

Someone from ballincollig involved there. Glanmire is closer than ballincollig. Don't know why it would go out that far.

Stephen15

I always thought Ballincollig was kind of the Swords of Cork. Both seem kinda similar.

chalkitdown1

theboringfox wrote: »

Someone from ballincollig involved there. Glanmire is closer than ballincollig. Don't know why it would go out that far.

Probably because it would be easy to do. Plenty of room and fields out there to connect it with the city with relative ease.

the beer revolu

chalkitdown1 wrote: »

Probably because it would be easy to do. Plenty of room and fields out there to connect it with the city with relative ease.

Relatively big population there too.

AugustusMinimus

Having a tram run along the Carrigrohane straight and avoid UCC, CUH, CIT, proposed Science Park and the Dog Track is one of the most stupid layouts I’ve seen.

cgcsb

I wonder why the official statement avoids calling it luas? surely every light rail line in the country should be baring the same name?

snotboogie

cgcsb wrote: »

I wonder why the official statement avoids calling it luas? surely every light rail line in the country should be baring the same name?

Not necessarily. Read a future of Cork puff piece in the Examiner and it was all about bus corridors incorporating the docklands. I don't see the study recommending Light Rail, I just hope that there are proposals for a proper BRT and not more of the same poxy bus lanes.

Lord Glentoran

cgcsb wrote: »

I wonder why the official statement avoids calling it luas? surely every light rail line in the country should be baring the same name?

That's like calling all crisps Taytos.