Fine Gael closing down Rural Ireland??

LeinsterDub

Widdershins wrote: »

Obviously. But I was talking about posting letters AND packages. I'm pretty sure not all village shops sell stamps, either, as weird as it sounds. I could be wrong but I know I was told in at least one of them that I'd have to buy stamps at the PO.

Well I wasn't discussing packages as I made clear

Widdershins

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Well I wasn't discussing packages as I made clear

So anything bigger than an padded envelope will have to be posted in a town. I think it is relevant. Unless you think people in the country deserve to have more hardship, to pay for not living in a town.

LeinsterDub

Widdershins wrote: »

So anything bigger than an padded envelope will have to be posted in a town. I think it is relevant. Unless you think people in the country deserve to have more hardship, to pay for not living in a town.

The majority of posted mail isn't packaged. And of course hardship goes both ways regarding town v country

Del2005

Widdershins wrote: »

I'm not sure where people think their meat and dairy comes from? There is a reason farmers on or near their farms.

It's strange how Ireland is the only country which has rampant ribbon development on our roads, good job other countries don't have farms. If it was only farmers it wouldn't be an issue, but there are wayyyy more houses build along our roads than there are farms.

Widdershins wrote: »

An Post banking would have been great, but they do offer AIB banking services, and have opened AddressPal.

I'm sure people are posting fewer letters but I still send and receive letters. And all the online sellers have to have a way to post their items. Couriers are not always the best option.

Most of the letters I receive are from the government and they could all be replaced by email and I can't remember the last time I posted a letter. And for the people who say they can't get email, if you lived in your local town or village it would be easier to supply email and yout local post office would have a chance to survive.

MeTheMan

More people need to move to rural Ireland! At least a few miles from the nearest town. Then we would get better services!

LeinsterDub

MeTheMan wrote: »

More people need to move to rural Ireland! At least a few miles from the nearest town. Then we would get better services!

And where in rural Ireland do you live?

Widdershins

Del2005 wrote: »

It's strange how Ireland is the only country which has rampant ribbon development on our roads, good job other countries don't have farms. If it was only farmers it wouldn't be an issue, but there are wayyyy more houses build along our roads than there are farms.

Actually I partly agree. Too many one off houses and my issue is more about them spoiling big chunks of countryside, as well as arable land. I would like to see our agricultural potential being reached. I believe we could be a sort of green gem in organic farming. But that's a different thread. And most of my neighbours here are farming families.

[/QUOTE]Most of the letters I receive are from the government and they could all be replaced by email and I can't remember the last time I posted a letter. And for the people who say they can't get email, if you lived in your local town or village it would be easier to supply email and yout local post office would have a chance to survive.[/QUOTE]

Well, that's you. And personally when it comes to important letters, I like to have a paper copy as I have lost stuff on computers before.I realise there are ways around this but personal preference and I do not find setting things like that up more convenient. Some of the legal and financial stuff I can think of would not be sent by email, so they can't *all* be replaced by email. And, many older or less computer literate people would not find that easy at all. I don't believe they can just be dismissed.
What works for you won't work for everyone.

It's not just about posting a letter. People send packages and parcels via an post too.


And lastly, Going to a town thirty minutes or an hour away, spending time and money on finding and paying for parking if you can find it at all, because unlike some cities there just isn't the space in a lot of towns to plonk big car parks and multistories, and then queuing in a large busy post office is impractical, very onerous and for some, not an option.

LeinsterDub

Widdershins wrote: »

Actually I partly agree. Too many one off houses .

Complains about one off houses, lives in a one off house half an hour away from the nearest town

Widdershins

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Complains about one off houses, lives on a one off house half an hour away from the nearest town

I live in a very old house that was built a long time before I was born. If I didn't live in it chances are someone'd have bought it, knocked it and built one three times the size. And I didn't in fact specify what type of house or how far from anywhere else, I was illustrating the difficulties facing some people in rural areas. Hardly any need for the snide response, was there?

Nor did I complain about the,m, just prefer if farming families could stay in their area and make a go of their farms rather than people building mansions on the land.

LeinsterDub

Widdershins wrote: »

I live in a very old house that was built a long time before I was born. If I didn't live in it chances are someone'd have bought it, knocked it and built one three times the size. And I didn't in fact specify what type of house or how far from anywhere else, I was illustrating the difficulties facing some people in rural areas. Hardly any need for the snide response, was there?

Nor did I complain about the,m, just prefer if farming families could stay in their area and make a go of their farms rather than people building mansions on the land.

You claimed to be half an hour or an hour from town. Was this hyperbole? Will the closure of a post office make an difference to the day to day life's of farming families? No it won't make a jot of difference

Widdershins

LeinsterDub wrote: »

You claimed to be half an hour or an hour from town. Was this hyperbole? Will the closure of a post office make an difference to the day to day life's of farming families? No it won't make a jot of difference

I was addressing a number of points in my posts but you have mashed them all together. I was using what is known as examples.

LeinsterDub

Widdershins wrote: »

I was addressing a number of points in my posts but you have mashed them all together. I was using what is known as examples.

I live in Dublin and am an hour away from half the country. Who is an hour away from their nearest town? Give me an actual example.

People in rural Ireland seem to have no issue driving ten or fifteen minutes up the road to get the latest bargains from Lidl or Aldi perhaps they could post their mail then

Jawgap

Widdershins wrote: »

Obviously. But I was talking about posting letters AND packages. I'm pretty sure not all village shops sell stamps, either, as weird as it sounds. I could be wrong but I know I was told in at least one of them that I'd have to buy stamps at the PO.

Apparently An Post cut down the margin offered on stamps so a lot of shops stopped selling them, and they did away with the few vending machines they had from which you could buy stamps - which is a bit crazy, but I'm sure makes logical sense to An Post.

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

The post office where I am opens when I'm in work. It closes when I'm on my lunch break. If I need to send a parcel, I work around it.
I use parcel motel.

I drive to the local parcel motel to drop of my parcel in one of its lockers. I can do that 24/7.

There's nothing stopping an post putting a 10 box parcel and over sized mail depot in every village in the country. Unmanned and incredibly easy to use.
But no, instead they come up with addresspal where I can only collect a parcel when the post office is open. Which is when I'm working. Except on Saturday's, which is feck all use to me if it arrives the previous Monday


If the post office network was sustainable, they wouldn't be looking to shut 200 of them down. They're not. They're going the way of the carrier pigeon

An Post's AddressPal and Parcel Box services pale in comparison to something like Parcel Motel. My own view is that Parcel Motel is a service designed to make my life easier, whereas AddressPal and Parcel Box are designed to make An Post's life easier - I think they need to recognise that they are in a service business and people have choices.

I also wonder how much of the failure to deliver a service comparable to Parcel Motel is down to union pressure? They're much better placed than Nightline to deliver a more comprehensive service and yet they don't?

Likewise, the increase in the stamp price was a crazy move. Sure, prices need to rise, but maybe if they got a bit creative with the marketing and encouraged us to send more letters, pieces of post etc it would help boost their bottom line and make rural services more viable.

As is typical of Irish businesses they seem overly focused on unit rather than gross profits, then they wonder why their operations consistently fail to remain viable.

Widdershins

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I live in Dublin and am an hour away from half the country. Who is an hour away from their nearest town? Give me an actual example

Yes, that's clear from your username, interesting choice. Obviously your location is important to you for some reason.

West Clare. And it was an approximate distance.

What is the problem with pointing out that some rural people will not find it as easy to do without the village PO than non rural people might think? Having already conceded that if the PO's arent financially viable, I can't argue with that, you seem to have taken exception to my comments anyway.

Victor

Widdershins wrote: »

And lastly, Going to a town thirty minutes or an hour away,

Name any post office that serves locations an hours travel from it.

murphaph

Widdershins wrote: »

I live in a very old house that was built a long time before I was born. If I didn't live in it chances are someone'd have bought it, knocked it and built one three times the size. And I didn't in fact specify what type of house or how far from anywhere else, I was illustrating the difficulties facing some people in rural areas. Hardly any need for the snide response, was there?

Nor did I complain about the,m, just prefer if farming families could stay in their area and make a go of their farms rather than people building mansions on the land.

Every one of those houses is built on land sold by a farmer for financial gain. Every house is one house fewer in the nearest village. These properties are all car dependent, so it's just as handy to bypass the local village and shop in the next retail park. Village dies and people then blame the state for closing the post office. You honestly couldn't make it up.

murphaph

By the way. I live in a commuter town on the outskirts of Berlin. 13k population. Post office closed and moved to sub post office in a shop. There's just much less demand at the retail level for postal services nowadays. One of the banks also closed the retail operation and just left an unmanned ATM offering.

Jawgap

murphaph wrote: »

Every one of those houses is built on land sold by a farmer for financial gain. Every house is one house fewer in the nearest village. These properties are all car dependent, so it's just as handy to bypass the local village and shop in the next retail park. Village dies and people then blame the state for closing the post office. You honestly couldn't make it up.

......add to the fact that it's local planning policy and zoning decisions that allow said farmer to sell of plots of land......and those policies are determined by local politicians......elected by the people who complain about villages dying......then they buy into all that guff about it being the gubbiment's fault!!!

Rural Ireland......here's a tip......don't vote gombeen politicians on to county councils!! Or do, but don't be that surprised when they screw up by zoning land far in excess of what's required and in wholly unsuitable locations.

At one point in 2008 we had enough land zoned to provide housing for approximately 4 million people!!!

The worst three areas for residential over-zoning were Clare, Co Cork (2,500 hectares) and Donegal (2,250 hectares), which between them accounted for 20% of the national stock of residentially zoned land in 2010.

LeinsterDub

LeinsterDub wrote: »

You claimed to be half an hour or an hour from town. Was this hyperbole? Will the closure of a post office make an difference to the day to day life's of farming families? No it won't make a jot of difference

As a country dweller from birth, I know a number of farmers who retired and would drive to the next town to collect their pensions rather than go to the local one - in case they met someone they know! I've a feeling that it couldn't be paid into a bank back in the 80s. While collecting the pension, they also did their weekly shopping. So who is closing down Rural Ireland? The rural dwellers themselves!

MeTheMan

I use my local village just as much as someone who lives in the village does. Why do we need to live in the village for it to survive?

I more concerned about the garda stations closing and the lack of cars for the area they are covering.

An old lady wrote a letter to a local councillor about how at night she leaves her bag and money on the kitchen table and locks herself and her dog in the bedroom. She knows if someone breaks in the garda won't be there to help and hopes who ever does break in just takes the money and goes.

Very sad to think this is happening.

LeinsterDub

Widdershins wrote: »

, I can't argue with that, you seem to have taken exception to my comments anyway.

I've taken exception to the clearly inflated travel times you've invented to make your case seem somewhat reasonable

Widdershins

Victor wrote: »

Name any post office that serves locations an hours travel from it.

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I've taken exception to the clearly inflated travel times you've invented to make your case seem somewhat reasonable

Victor, at the moment most villages probably have a post office. Do you mean, name the ones who will be serving people from villages whose PO's will be closed?
Well tell me which Clare/Limerick PO's will be closed and I might try to work it out for you ? Are you familiar with the geography of these regions? And the type of roads out there? I ask because I have often known urban dwellers to underestimate travel times due to inexperience of these things.

Leinster Dub:

To clarify. You're disputing that there are rural regions that are between a half an hour and an hour from their nearest town?

Do you realise a ten, fifteen or twenty minute drive would still be impossible for non drivers like some elderly and disabled people who I mentioned a couple of times and you ignored, along with most of the content of my post?

Balf

Widdershins wrote: »

Do you realise a ten, fifteen or twenty minute drive would still be impossible for non drivers like some elderly and disabled people who I mentioned a couple of times and you ignored, along with most of the content of my post?

But, sure, rural living would be intolerable anyway for non drivers.

It's not like the post office is a crucial service, marking the boundary between life and death.

Bottom line is, if these services were necessary and used by people, they wouldn't need to be closed. If there was some new role for post offices, it would have been found by now.

Can I also observe that rural folk tend to overestimate the extent to which their lives are different, and the extent to which their localities are strange to urban folk. Most urban folk have close family links in rural areas. It's really not so special or mysterious.

Widdershins

Balf wrote: »

But, sure, rural living would be intolerable anyway for non drivers.

Not if there are basic services in nearest village. Many of them walk or cycle that far. It was a way of life for the older people.

It can be difficult but there are basic local minibus services in some remote areas, once a week or something. People manage because they're not suited to town/city living and they accept the tradeoff. That doesn't mean people can just say''tough. You like living in the country, you must accept every reduction in services.'' Living in the wrong environment would be bad for a person's mental health, I have friends who couldn't cope with rural isolation, and I couldn't cope with city life.


[/QUOTE]It's not like the post office is a crucial service, marking the boundary between life and death.[/QUOTE]

And it doesn't have to be Life and Death to matter.

[/QUOTE]Bottom line is, if these services were necessary and used by people, they wouldn't need to be closed. If there was some new role for post offices, it would have been found by now.[/QUOTE]

It's needed. Just apparently not utilised by enough people because they're not thinking about the effect of bypassing local business.

[/QUOTE]Can I also observe that rural folk tend to overestimate the extent to which their lives are different, and the extent to which their localities are strange to urban folk. Most urban folk have close family links in rural areas. It's really not so special or mysterious.[/QUOTE]

I haven't noticed. Examples?
I've seen people with a grudge against rural dwelling, though.

end of the road

LeinsterDub wrote: »

You claimed to be half an hour or an hour from town. Was this hyperbole? Will the closure of a post office make an difference to the day to day life's of farming families? No it won't make a jot of difference

how would you know. you won't be able to provide proof of that claim as you won't know. you have no argument, no point, no nothing.

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I live in Dublin and am an hour away from half the country. Who is an hour away from their nearest town? Give me an actual example.

People in rural Ireland seem to have no issue driving ten or fifteen minutes up the road to get the latest bargains from Lidl or Aldi perhaps they could post their mail then

or they can post it where they currently post it.

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I've taken exception to the clearly inflated travel times you've invented to make your case seem somewhat reasonable

so you have taken exception to something that wasn't said. bravo sir. bravo.

end of the road

Balf wrote: »

It's not like the post office is a crucial service, marking the boundary between life and death.

if it wasn't a vital service it would have gone decades ago.

Balf wrote: »

Bottom line is, if these services were necessary and used by people, they wouldn't need to be closed.

wrong. sometimes services dispite being used have to go as part of a greater cost cutting program. the services are being used otherwise they wouldn't have existed in the first place.

Balf wrote: »

If there was some new role for post offices, it would have been found by now.

no it wouldn't.

Balf wrote: »

Can I also observe that rural folk tend to overestimate the extent to which their lives are different, and the extent to which their localities are strange to urban folk. Most urban folk have close family links in rural areas. It's really not so special or mysterious.

no they don't over estimate anything. it's some urban folk who claim they do as part of their victim complex.

Some small towns have both a bank and a post office. Personally, I don't think there is need for both. Let the towns with both close one and those that have only eg a post office, let them keep it open.

jimmycrackcorm

Widdershins wrote:

So anything bigger than an padded envelope will have to be posted in a town. I think it is relevant. Unless you think people in the country deserve to have more hardship, to pay for not living in a town.

The last office could be replaced by an expanded autonomous post box that could take sizeable parcels. Parcelmotel have the model that works well both for sending and receiving.

Widdershins wrote:

Well, that's you. And personally when it comes to important letters, I like to have a paper copy as I have lost stuff on computers before.I realise there are ways around this but personal preference and I do not find setting things like that up more convenient. Some of the legal and financial stuff I can think of would not be sent by email, so they can't *all* be replaced by email. And, many older or less computer literate people would not find that easy at all. I don't believe they can just be dismissed. What works for you won't work for everyone.

Like it or not mail is being replaced by online services. You don't need to post in firms for the revenue now. E.g. who wants to go back to queuing up to pay for motor tax in an office.

flutered

Victor wrote: »

About 135 out of about 700 Garda stations closed. Several Dublin ones closed.

Norway and Scotland, each with a similar population to Ireland, each have about 10% of the number of police stations.


http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/population/populationofeachprovincecountyandcity2011/

Limerick City 57,106
Limerick County 134,703


http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=10607

Shanagolden and Doon closed in March 2012.

The following were closed as of 31st January 2013.
* Galbally
* Kilfinane
* Castletown Conyers
* Kilmeedy
* Tournafolla

Mary Street in Limerick City closed in February / March 2013.

Total seven closed in the county and one in the city.



Limerick County
Abbeyfeale
Adare
Askeaton
Athea
Ballingarry
Ballylanders
Ballyneety
Bruff
Bruree
Caherconlish
Cappamore
Castleconnell
Croom
Dromcollogher
Foynes
Glin
Hospital
Kilmallock
Murroe
Newcastle West
Oola
Pallasgreen
Pallaskenry
Patrickswell
Rathkeale

Limerick City
Henry Street
Mayorstone
Roxboro Road

That's 25 in the county and 3 in the city.

and how many hours are the small county ones open weekly, until recently bruff had ony three squad cars, to cover a massive area

flutered

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

The last office could be replaced by an expanded autonomous post box that could take sizeable parcels. Parcelmotel have the model that works well both for sending and receiving.



Like it or not mail is being replaced by online services. You don't need to post in firms for the revenue now. E.g. who wants to go back to queuing up to pay for motor tax in an office.

there are still q's at the motor tax office

end of the road

flutered wrote: »

and how many hours are the small county ones open weekly, until recently bruff had ony three squad cars, to cover a massive area

that's a horific number of closures. inexcusable and an insult to the people.

Victor

flutered wrote: »

and how many hours are the small county ones open weekly, until recently bruff had ony three squad cars, to cover a massive area

Why don't you go to www.garda.ie and tell us? You can't make claims and then tell other people to back up your claims.

So, I made a map of all the Clare post offices (in red) and some Galway ones (in black), based on http://www.anpost.ie/AnPost/at+your+local+Post+Office.htm Ennis has two post offices within 350 metres of each other in the town centre and another two at Clonroad and Clarecastle (not strictly Ennis) and a delivery office on the Gort Road. You could reduce the entire county to Ardnacrusha, Ballyvaughan, Ennis, Ennistymon, Kilrush, Scariff and everywhere in the county would be within 30 minutes drive of a post office. By that standard, it could survive on 15% of its current post offices. The reality is that An Post are only suggesting closing 20%.

Conclusion, Widdershins is making stuff up.

end of the road wrote: »

that's a horific number of closures. inexcusable and an insult to the people.

What is an acceptable number of closures? Are resources better deployed tying gardaí to stations or allowing them to patrol.

Widdershins

Victor wrote: »

Why don't you go to www.garda.ie and tell us? You can't make claims and then tell other people to back up your claims.

So, I made a map of all the Clare post offices (in red) and some Galway ones (in black), based on http://www.anpost.ie/AnPost/at+your+local+Post+Office.htm Ennis has two post offices within 350 metres of each other in the town centre and another two at Clonroad and Clarecastle (not strictly Ennis) and a delivery office on the Gort Road. You could reduce the entire county to Ardnacrusha, Ballyvaughan, Ennis, Ennistymon, Kilrush, Scariff and everywhere in the county would be within 30 minutes drive of a post office. By that standard, it could survive on 15% of its current post offices. The reality is that An Post are only suggesting closing 20%.

Conclusion, Widdershins is making stuff up.

What is an acceptable number of closures? Are resources better deployed tying gardaí to stations or allowing them to patrol.

That's hilarious. But whatever! I don't know where to even start with that. Maybe visit Clare and Limerick someday.
That's the comment that keeps on giving. Clarecastle is ''not strictly Ennis''.

I don't mean to be rude petal, your little map is lovely. When you let me know which villages/towns will have their PO closed I'll let you know which areas will be affected and how far away of a drive from a town with a PO they are.

Victor

Widdershins wrote: »

That's hilarious. But whatever! I don't know where to even start with that. Maybe visit Clare and Limerick someday.
That's the comment that keeps on giving. Clarecastle is ''not strictly Ennis''.

I don't mean to be rude petal, your little map is lovely. When you let me know which villages/towns will have their PO closed I'll let you know which areas will be affected and how far away of a drive from a town with a PO they are.

Close everything except Ardnacrusha, Ballyvaughan, Ennis, Ennistymon, Kilrush, Scariff and tell me which ones will be

Widdershins wrote: »

thirty minutes or an hour away,

from the locations they service.

Widdershins

Victor wrote: »

Close everything except Ardnacrusha, Ballyvaughan, Ennis, Ennistymon, Kilrush, Scariff and tell me which ones will be

from the locations they service.

Ok! For a start, I'm at least 30 minutes from the closest one of the above, that's on a good day without delays and with decent driving conditions. And you're still ignoring the points about having to find, pay for parking in towns, and then queuing, which will get really serious when the particular PO is coping with customers from the places whose PO's have closed. And you're still ignoring the situation the elderly, disabled and non drivers will find themselves in.
Let me think of the townland names and I'll compile a mental list for you. However, it would help to know the areas that really will be affected.

Why exactly are you ignoring those points?

Victor

Widdershins wrote: »

And you're still ignoring the situation the elderly, disabled and non drivers will find themselves in.

But most of them will be in that position already anyway.

However, it would help to know the areas that really will be affected.

How am I mean tot know the list when it hasn't been published?

Why exactly are you ignoring those points?

I'm not. I've provided back-up information for my posts, you haven't

Widdershins

Victor wrote: »

But most of them will be in that position already anyway.
How am I mean tot know the list when it hasn't been published?

I'm not. I've provided back-up information for my posts, you haven't

Well if you don't know where they're closing them down don't waste your time and mine making maps of hypothetical locations .

Did I miss a post of yours where you responded in any way to the issue I mentioned? Other than the ''30 minutes to an hour drive to a town with a PO'' which was based on guessing that the larger towns will be the ones allowed to keep the PO's, which reminds me that your own guesses might not even turn out to be the ones that stay open. Scariff and Ennistymon might not be the busiest PO's around, being very small towns/large villages, though they're the biggest towns serving their areas. Ardnacrusha too. Ballyvaughan seems doubtful. It's a quiet place.

Really, you're making more guesses that I did when I estimated the drive to a town that some people will have to make. And I'm familiar with the regions.

Victor

How about you come back when you substantiate your "thirty minutes or an hour away" comment?

end of the road

Victor wrote: »

But most of them will be in that position already anyway.

that's no justification to have more people joining them in that position.

Victor wrote: »

How about you come back when you substantiate your "thirty minutes or an hour away" comment?

she just did. post 86.

Widdershins

Victor wrote: »

How about you come back when you substantiate your "thirty minutes or an hour away" comment?

By telling you where I live? I already suggested you should familiarise yourself with this region because you're obviously going by google maps or something (all without knowing what areas won't have a PO) which won't give you a very accurate estimate. Ask a delivery driver who's worked in the region.

It's not rural people thinking we're different or something. You'll find we tend to underestimate distances at the best of times (''it's just down the road''= any number of KM away!)

Balf

Widdershins wrote: »

It's not rural people thinking we're different or something.

I'm afraid it is. There is a strong tendancy in much rural advocacy to unrealistic demands, backed by fanciful arguments.

Like your contention that rural Ireland is full of elderly people who still cycle everywhere. That would have been true in living memory. But, over the last couple of decades, rural folk (who aren't reciting advocacy mantras) are far more likely to observe that they can't cycle no more as the explosion in both one-off housing and car ownership means they just don't feel safe sharing the road with increased, speedy, traffic.

Put another way, I'll see your corny anecdote and raise you with actual contemporary experience.

Widdershins

Balf wrote: »

I'm afraid it is. There is a strong tendancy in much rural advocacy to unrealistic demands, backed by fanciful arguments.

Like your contention that rural Ireland is full of elderly people who still cycle everywhere. That would have been true in living memory. But, over the last couple of decades, rural folk (who aren't reciting advocacy mantras) are far more likely to observe that they can't cycle no more as the explosion in both one-off housing and car ownership means they just don't feel safe sharing the road with increased, speedy, traffic.

Put another way, I'll see your corny anecdote and raise you with actual contemporary experience.

It's you who has a fanciful way of reading and interpreting other peoples words, I think. Those who can't drive or get a lift either walk or cycle and there's plenty of walkers on the roads here every day, especially mums with pushchairs, not looking worried about the explosion in traffic. I never said the country's ''full of'' cyclists, elderly or otherwise.

Why you think your contemporary experience is more valid than mine is a mystery.

end of the road

Balf wrote: »

I'm afraid it is. There is a strong tendancy in much rural advocacy to unrealistic demands, backed by fanciful arguments.

Like your contention that rural Ireland is full of elderly people who still cycle everywhere. That would have been true in living memory. But, over the last couple of decades, rural folk (who aren't reciting advocacy mantras) are far more likely to observe that they can't cycle no more as the explosion in both one-off housing and car ownership means they just don't feel safe sharing the road with increased, speedy, traffic.

Put another way, I'll see your corny anecdote and raise you with actual contemporary experience.

i'm afraid it isn't. There is only a very small tendantsy in much rural advocacy to unrealistic demands, backed by fanciful arguments.
just like there is only a very small tendantsy in much urban advocacy to unrealistic demands, playing the victim, backed by fanciful arguments.

Balf

Widdershins wrote: »

Why you think your contemporary experience is more valid than mine is a mystery.

Oh, I don't. I simply don't believe you are sharing your actual experience, for reasons that are self-evident.

No mystery at all.

Widdershins

Balf wrote: »

Oh, I don't. I simply don't believe you are sharing your actual experience, for reasons that are self-evident.

No mystery at all.

What are my actual experiences then? That the locals who don't drive don't manage somehow and accept the tradeoff of convenience for the environment that makes them happy? Hmm yes I can see why that's so far fetched, no wonder you have difficulty believing it. :rolleyes:

I find your line of questioning and suspicion extremely peculiar and badminded. I merely said I think the local village PO's would be sorely missed by some people and pointed out that there's going to be a lot more driving, parking and time spent on using a PO further away, depending on which ones are closed down.

Del2005

Widdershins wrote: »

Not if there are basic services in nearest village. Many of them walk or cycle that far. It was a way of life for the older people.

It can be difficult but there are basic local minibus services in some remote areas, once a week or something. People manage because they're not suited to town/city living and they accept the tradeoff.

If they can get a mini bus to the nearest village then they can get a minibus to the nearest town. If the local village hasn't the services for them it's not urban peoples fault, it's other rural dwellers who drive past the local village to the nearest town.

When I was young in the early 90s my mothers local village had 3 shops, a chemist, a post office, 2 pubs and a church. It was always fairly busy. I drove through it late last year at 6pm on a Friday and there was no cars parked, no people to be seen and there's only 1 pub, which opens at 8pm, and the church left. A shop has reopened since. I've ridden through rural France and Switzerland and after 10-20 minutes of ridding through unspoiled countryside you'd arrive at a little village with shops, cafes, kids playing on the street. Were my father is from there's 2 kids of ~13 and ~8 who have to be driven anywhere to play with their friends, not that there's many kids their age around.

Widdershins wrote: »

Actually I partly agree. Too many one off houses and my issue is more about them spoiling big chunks of countryside, as well as arable land. I would like to see our agricultural potential being reached. I believe we could be a sort of green gem in organic farming. But that's a different thread. And most of my neighbours here are farming families.

1 family needs to live on the farm, the remaining families can live in villages.

Widdershins wrote: »

Nor did I complain about the,m, just prefer if farming families could stay in their area and make a go of their farms rather than people building mansions on the land.

The local village is their area and from my experience of rural East Mayo it's the locals building the mansions as no foreigner wants to live there. Every farmer you meet says that they are struggling, and if it wasn't for subsidies they definitely would, so how can multiple families make a go of a farm?

end of the road

Del2005 wrote: »

If they can get a mini bus to the nearest village then they can get a minibus to the nearest town.

wrong. they can only get it to the town if it goes to the town. which many of them don't go to the town, but the nearest village.

Del2005 wrote: »

1 family needs to live on the farm, the remaining families can live in villages.

they can live where they like. they will get their services as per entitlements and obligations as they pay tax.

Del2005 wrote: »

The local village is their area and from my experience of rural East Mayo it's the locals building the mansions as no foreigner wants to live there. Every farmer you meet says that they are struggling, and if it wasn't for subsidies they definitely would, so how can multiple families make a go of a farm?

they all chip in . more working hands = quicker work and more work done.

PeadarCo

Del2005 wrote:

The local village is their area and from my experience of rural East Mayo it's the locals building the mansions as no foreigner wants to live there. Every farmer you meet says that they are struggling, and if it wasn't for subsidies they definitely would, so how can multiple families make a go of a farm?

They won't be able to make a go. The number of people farming has been declining for decades and will continue to decline due to technology changes and pressure on farmers profit margins. The whole post office issue is a side show. What people are really complaining about is the continual decline if rural Ireland. That's been driven by the change in the jobs people do. Most jobs are located in towns and cities. People move to where their are jobs. Its something you see in nearly every country in the world.

Leaving a few post offices open won't have any effect on the health of rural Ireland. Its a system of the decline not the cause.

murphaph

Widdershins wrote: »

That's hilarious. But whatever! I don't know where to even start with that. Maybe visit Clare and Limerick someday.
That's the comment that keeps on giving. Clarecastle is ''not strictly Ennis''.

I don't mean to be rude petal, your little map is lovely. When you let me know which villages/towns will have their PO closed I'll let you know which areas will be affected and how far away of a drive from a town with a PO they are.

The post of someone who has had his argument thoroughly discredited. You don't​ like the map (thanks Victor) because it cuts through 10 layers of bull**** like a hot knife through butter.

I'd say that literally not one person living on the mainland is over 60 mins drive to a post office. I'd say the percentage over 30 mins drive is still low single digits!

murphaph

end of the road wrote: »

i'm afraid it isn't. There is only a very small tendantsy in much rural advocacy to unrealistic demands, backed by fanciful arguments.
just like there is only a very small tendantsy in much urban advocacy to unrealistic demands, playing the victim, backed by fanciful arguments.

Could you please try to put actual points forward, rather than respond to posts by just saying "no you're wrong, it's the opposite of that". You do it all the time, not just in this thread. Please try to substantiate your posts with some sort of argument.