How would YOU get more EVs on the road

discostu1

I'm a newbie, I have my Leaf for just under a month,heading for 1500 kms a great experience but mine is mostly driving around Cork City we have been as as far as Clonakilty and Fermoy but mostly its around the city.
I was wondering, given the powers what would you folk who have been on the EV game a lot long change to get more EVs on the road
Now you cant change cars or technology the type of things I am interested in is what could say a Government or a Local authority do...and why dont they do them
So for example should all EVs NOT pay toll charges, (Including the m50) should ESB give a commitment that all charging will be free for the next X years.
I got my card giving free parking in the Park and Ride in COrk the other day do other local authories do the same, is this applicable to the Luas

Any other ideas

unkel

Great idea for a thread! Some stuff that could easily be implemented and won't cost much (for now while there are few EVs)

- free motor tax
- free tolls
- free parking in designated charging / parking spots nationwide
- only grant planning for any housing if EV chargers for all units are included
- more public charging points (really on every single National road and motorway every 50km a dual / quadruple station)
- existing subsidies of €5k + €5k VRT discount are more than generous already
- extend free home charge point for another 5,000 new EV buyers

I don't feel the free public charging is such a big deal. Sure, keep it going for a bit if that gets more people to buy EVs, but personally I'd prefer more charge points with paid for charging than the existing setup.

Evd-Burner

Free tolls and on street parking for EV's for a defined amount of time.

Massive uptake in charger locations along motorways and multiple chargers at each location. With a cost per minute when the car starts to charge below a certain kwh rate. Eliminating the infrastructure being under utilised.

goz83

*Keep the existing subsidies in place.
*Rollout a better CP network.
-charge small fee for charging on motorway laybys (€1 for 30 mins).
-make it mandatory for petrol stations to have 1 CP for every 5 fuel pumps.
-make it mandatory for Management Companies to supply a certain number of CPs per unit and have reviewed every 3 years.
-give employers tax credits and subsidies for providing free/reduced fee CPs.
-subsidy for one home CP, where buying new, or used.
*No motor tax for first 3 years.



I know the following would encourage more EV purchases, but I disagree with them.

*No motor tax.
-I think it's ok for a while, but I do think some motortax should be paid and I also think motor tax should be spent on roads.
*Free parking at public CPs where ICE cars must pay.
-this encourages people to block CPs when they don't need a charge.
*Bus lane use.
-Should only be used by public transport and emergency vehicles.
-difficult to police as more EVs look like regular ICE cars.
-Sheep factor. EVs drive in bus lane. ICE cars follow, thinking its ok to.

ED E

Auto bollard protection for public CPs. eCars users get a fob they press, bollard drops giving access to the charge space. ICEing gone.

Atlantic Dawn

• Punishment and fines for people selfishly using charge points to charge their car
• No motor tax until market penetration reaches 20% of the fleet and then a flat €100
• All new car parks to have enough charge points to cover 10% of the number of cars parked in them.
• Allowed use the bus lanes
• Bring in clear policy on when or if public charging points will be fee paying
• Free tolls
• Free parking on all onstreet parking
• Have an app designed to analyse an ICE users driving to tell them what % of their driving could be done in an electric car

Calahonda52

Treat PHEV and hybrids like ICE cars for road tax.

slave1

Looking for everything here!

Already a very generous €5k + €5k Gov Subsidy.

The infrastructure is decent, it will improve with time so I'd let commercial lead the way there.

All I'd ask is..

EV's to get a low tax rate, say €30/year
Free parking WHILST CHARGING
Use of bus/taxi lanes

SteM

slave1 wrote: »

Looking for everything here!

Already a very generous €5k + €5k Gov Subsidy.

The infrastructure is decent, it will improve with time so I'd let commercial lead the way there.

All I'd ask is..

EV's to get a low tax rate, say €30/year
Free parking WHILST CHARGING
Use of bus/taxi lanes

Would be totally against this. Buses crawl in the city centre as it is, the last thing we need is more vehicles in bus lanes. It might encourage EV uptake but it will discourage public transport use.

Balmed Out

I think the biggest issue affecting low take up is lack of vehicle choice and range.
More vehicle types mpv's, estates etc longer range and a lot more would be driving them. If you need to carry two buggies in the booth then your unlikely to get an electric vehicle.

With anything so different most people want the reassurance of actually knowing someone with the car so as they slowly become more common there should be a tipping point, at the moment given how people are so much more vocal with bad experiences you are as likely to hear a friend of a friend had awful problems as something positive.

listermint

Mandatory charge points in all new builds.
Has to be on the list.

stesaurus

It's not just about getting new users on the road. It's about having a positive experience and keeping them in an EV also. We're at the tipping point now in regards infrastructure IMO. They are a lot busier lately and a lot of queuing on weekends. With a number of new Ioniqs due and nicer weather there's going to be a huge strain. Something needs to be brought in to discourage users unless they need it. It's so frustrating waiting at an FCP for a local to finish up getting their free juice when you are actually in need to get home.

PAKNET

Subsidy or grant for installing a 32A home charger and associated required electrical upgrades (advanced ESB supply, electrical shower priority switch, etc.).

Special electricity night rate - perhaps a separate e-car meter - for those charging their eCar.
I don't think there should be free or subsidised on-street parking, at least at peak time.
The electrical grid is relatively quiet at night versus during the day yet all of the baseload power stations must still stay online and generating through the night. Make use of that unused power that would otherwise end up burnt needlessly.

mickdw

I don't think government should be over subsidising ev use.
What is in place in terms of grants etc is fair. perhaps bring certainty to long teem charge costs for on street charging and some more charge points but other than that I believe the main issue is range. This is not the subject this thread so no point saying any more.
I do believe that promoting phev may do more for the cause than anything else. You will easily get drivers into a phev as it has none of the range issues. Those drivers may then find that most of their driving is in electric mode and be happy to go full electric next time.

goz83

PAKNET wrote: »

Subsidy or grant for installing a 32A home charger and associated required electrical upgrades (advanced ESB supply, electrical shower priority switch, etc.).

Special electricity night rate - perhaps a separate e-car meter - for those charging their eCar.
I don't think there should be free or subsidised on-street parking, at least at peak time.
The electrical grid is relatively quiet at night versus during the day yet all of the baseload power stations must still stay online and generating through the night. Make use of that unused power that would otherwise end up burnt needlessly.

Brilliant idea. Won't happen though

mickdw

It might but it will be special as in about 5 times the price.

grogi

discostu1 wrote: »

Any other ideas

The easiest and with the biggest environment impact free parking in the centres in designated spots.

niallb

Change in conditions for renewing an "Auto-Fuel Trader’s Licence".

The Auto Fuel trader must make available for use at the premises where fuel is sold Electric Charge points conforming to standards.

The cost of the installation and upkeep of these units will be reclaimable 100% from the duty paid on fuel vended.

If every garage in the country had charge points in 18 months, there'd be a lot less need to worry about range.

DrPhilG

To get people into the cars, I would have free road tax for 5 years and then a reduced fee long term.

To keep them on the roads there needs to be investment in the infrastructure and unfortunately the only way that is likely to be possible is to introduce charges. If charges are to come in, they must be fair and reasonable, i.e. not the nonsense proposal from the other year.

For every driver who is encouraged into an EV because of a more reliable infrastructure, more will be out off by outlandish charges like an €18 monthly subscription.

KCross

I think the free charging, free parking, free tolls, cheaper tax etc wont help enough to make any serious impact on the number of EV sales!

We already have very generous incentives for EV (€5k grant, €5k VRT exemption, free home charge point, free charging) and the uptake is dismal. Free parking, tolls and motor tax would have only a minor effect.

What is needed is more stick than carrot. Average Joe cares about his pocket ALOT more than any free charging or home charger point and they simply don’t understand/trust the savings. What Average Joe needs is the motor tax and VRT on his new ICE to go up progressively over the next 5 budgets. This sends a clear signal from the government that diesel is dead and will become more and more expensive to run and THEN Average Joe will look around and see what the alternatives are.

Its basically the same as the 2008 tax rate changes. That “immediately” changed behaviour and that’s whats required again.

All the other things like free tolls, use of bus lanes etc are just icing on the cake. They wont cause mass change. You have to make ICE “unaffordable”.

I don’t think we should allow EV’s into bus lanes. Its for public transport, leave it for that as that is what the government should be encouraging even before EV’s.

The only other thing that needs to change, which is somewhat outside the governments control, is to have more affordable EV’s with range of 200km+.



The top two that I would implement if I had the power is:
- Increase motor tax and VRT for new ICE. Possibly reduce motor tax for EV’s, but not absolutely required. The main thing is to increase it for ICE to create a gap between them.
- A government sponsored media campaign to debunk the myths and highlight the positives. Not sure if that would be considered interfering in the market and favouring one set of manufacturers to another?!

I'm hoping that the Low Emission Vehicle Taskforce will recommend the above two. The "Alternative Fuels for Transport" consultation suggested it also so hopefully it will happen.


I’d also support continuing with the current incentives and add free charging, free tolls, free parking, free charge point and, of course, more charge points but that’s a big ask while its still free. These incentives should remain in place until X% of the car fleet is EV. Not sure what X should be… budget dependent I suppose but surely 10% anyway.

Shefwedfan

This is from a person who is not a Electric Vehicle owner yet, what I would like to see

* Subsidized charge point installation for new owner, so not 2000 free, loads free but only 50% of cost
* Option to pay off charge point installation over set period 12-24 months. Whatever makes sense
* Lower toll charges at government tolls, not all tolls run by government but the ones they do have a lower fee(they will not go free)
* For older people more explanation of Electric Cars and free electricity option. So they could use instead of petrol/diesel when they cannot afford. Most journey by older/retired are less than 50km and they have bus pass for longer distance
* BIK for company vehicles should be changed to reflect greener cars. I think this is in UK. The stupid system is now out dated. If I wanted to go for electric car as new company car it would cost me more. First off they take the list price as BIK. Then you get diesel/petrol car so the more you use the more you get off BIK. Nuts.....

Before all of this there needs to be a better choice of electric cars.

You cant just blanket kill everyone on diesel/petrol. Some people need 7 seaters etc and there is no electric versions.

zilog_jones

There need to be better rights for charging installations for tenants and those with only street parking.

I also think there should be more effort from commercial entities to install public chargers, even if they're not free, e.g. at car parks, petrol stations, etc. Obviously the budget isn't there for the ESB, and we're not going to get very far if we rely solely on them.

Free motor tax would also help - even if it doesn't make that much difference financially, it's always something people are looking at when buying cars and would be a significant incentive.

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Treat PHEV and hybrids like ICE cars for road tax.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, but all passenger cars (post 2008) pay motor tax based on CO2 emissions - hybrids are not treated any differently, they just have lower emissions based on the standard tests, and they're not cheating on them like diesels are

KCross

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You cant just blanket kill everyone on diesel/petrol. Some people need 7 seaters etc and there is no electric versions.

I agree, which is why it should be done gradually over successive budgets. I'm in the 7-seater brigade so Im cutting my own throat there.

I'd also target diesel more than petrol and push the petrol PHEV agenda. That might get some 7-seater petrol PHEV's to appear on the market. I think we are a long way off(5-10yrs) having affordable BEV 7-seaters that have decent range.

boobycharlton

Ridiculous that people are actually looking for bus lane use, free tolls and free city centre parking. Just because your car is less environmentally​ damaging doesn't give you divine right to clog up already overburdened urban areas. If people really gave a fcuk about the environment they'd use PT.

Everything possible should be done to discourage private car use in cities.

Mooooo

Using Bus lanes, free tolls and parking I'd disagree with as they are congestion issues which will always be there with personal transport otherwise as stated above its about making the gap in cost significant between electric and ice. Would prefer if electric would be cheaper but of course the route taken would be to make ice dearer.

stesaurus

Nobody feels we have a divine right to anything. It's about encouraging users to a 'better' alternative and unfortunately a mix of incentives is needed for Joe Public to take interest. The point of the topic is to encourage users into EV's rather than locally polluting diesel and petrol cars. You can't remove private use vehicles from cities. That's just not possible. So the next best solution are EV's which don't pollute our cities.

SteM

s.welstead wrote: »

Nobody feels we have a divine right to anything. It's about encouraging users to a 'better' alternative and unfortunately a mix of incentives is needed for Joe Public to take interest. The point of the topic is to encourage users into EV's rather than locally polluting diesel and petrol cars. You can't remove private use vehicles from cities. That's just not possible. So the next best solution are EV's which don't pollute our cities.

Surely the next best is promoting public transport and ensuring it can move within the city?

stesaurus

SteM wrote: »

Surely the next best is promoting public transport and ensuring it can move within the city?

Public transport that suits everyone is pie in the sky stuff. Well until they invent matter transporters
To get a working PT network that served everyone's needs would cost billions and that's just for Dublin. What about outside of that?
Private vehicle ownership isn't disappearing anytime soon.

slave1

Actually, I think we're missing a beat here, based on my experience with dealers here they are brutal.
They openly admitted to my wife that if she had been researching on the internet then she'd know more than them.

How much confidence would this inspire, I did not do a Leaf test drive but asked my better half to ask some questions and they had not got a clue, not a clue. I don't think they were the slightest bit interested in selling her a Leaf, when she asked what trade in our Avensis would get they said €2.5k to €3k even though it's €4k/€5k for a Leaf, I often wondered if she asked about an ICE would the figure have gone up to €4k.

So, the dealers are part of the problem, I don't know if it's their mindset (no on-going maintenance at the same level so less long term revenue stream) or just lack of investment in training but they are brutal.
UK no better, the guys don't know the difference between a 3.3 or 6.6 Leaf...

SteM

s.welstead wrote: »

Public transport that suits everyone is pie in the sky stuff. Well until they invent matter transporters
To get a working PT network that served everyone's needs would cost billions and that's just for Dublin. What about outside of that?
Private vehicle ownership isn't disappearing anytime soon.

Who said a public transport system that suited everyone? They're your words. I just suggest having a public transport system that is usable.

So you're suggesting essentially killing the public transport system in Dublin in order to increase EV uptake? It's as unrealistic a proposal as me proposing a 95% subsidy for new EV sales imo. We should be trying to get taxis out of bus lanes, not trying to get more vehicles into them.

pawrick

The main reason I probably wont switch to EV soon is:
lack of vehicle choice - I need a large enough boot for my dog and carrying boxes in an average estate/suv form factor

Other than that some things which would help imo is:
Employers having to provide charge points on site - I'm sure something could be swung to make installation cost neutral by the gov if they wanted.
All new homes/apartment blocks to have a charge point or charge station
Maybe a similar scheme to the bike to work one offered there could be one for upgrading to EV from an ICE
More readily available for test drives at main dealers around the country.

Things i dont think will help:
Reducing tax - it's already very low compared to what most pay for diesel or petrol vehicles
Bus lanes access - means nothing to me living outside of the city + when I was living in Dublin I used public transport every day and this would have p*ssed me off if it caused me additional delays.