Racing 92 and Stade Francais to merge from next season

LeinsterDub

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/stade-francais-star-takes-facebook-scathing-attack-controversial-club-merger-116639

According to @lequipe Pascal Pape was particularly upset when the news was announced. Paper says SF may strike instead of playing Castres

irishbucsfan

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/stade-francais-star-takes-facebook-scathing-attack-controversial-club-merger-116639

Juicy

irishbucsfan

errlloyd wrote: »

I tried to clarify this.

The proD2 final takes place between the winners of the ProD2 semis (which is logical)

But the ProD2 semi finalists are teams 2,3,4,5. The team that tops the league gets promoted straight away and doesn't play the play off. So in this case. Teams going up would be.

ProD2 League Winner
ProD2 Play off Winner

Teams going down.

Top14 Loser.

Teams playing off

Top14 13th place
ProD2 playoff final loser.

Isn't Pro D2 changing its playoff system this year? Or is that next year...

Erik Shin

wp_rathead wrote: »

Remember the sh¡tfest when was rumored Biarritz and Bayonne were merging - can only imagine this gonna be bigger sh¡tfest

Exactly! Fans are hating this already

Erik Shin

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/stade-francais-star-takes-facebook-scathing-attack-controversial-club-merger-116639

He was quoted as saying he felt like he'd been kneed in the back

Richard Hillman

errlloyd wrote: »

Flights seem pricey enough, but I'd love to go see Stade's last home game against Racing.

Shame it's not at Racing's Ground. Stade will be winning by a point into the last minute and Dan Carter pops up with an overhead drop goal to win the game, whilst the crowd chant "Victoire, Victoire, Victoire"

https://twitter.com/gavinmortimer7/status/841303864414466048

Gotta love Mourad

pickarooney

Johan Goosen must me going through his contract with a magnifying glass.

Larbre34

The FFR are somewhat aghast. Small print may stop this madness yet.

Id have been slightly less surprised if I heard Celtic were merging with Rangers.

iroced

Whatever this is all about (merger, takeover, elite team cooperation), this is just plain RIDICULOUS! This is an insult to History. Racing & Stade Français are the 2 oldest French "professional" rugby clubs. The very first French championship was a one off game between these 2 clubs back in 1892 (Racing won 4-3). This is like Liverpool & Everton merging (or let's extend to 'Pool & Manchester United), Real & Atlético de Madrid, Lazio & AS Roma, Leinster & Munster :pac:...

Lorenzetti justification is so ridiculous. To win more why not "annexing" our closest enemy. Lorenzetti & Savarre making a rugby version of the Molotov-Ribbentropp pact :rolleyes:...

The Parisian clubs were not very popular in France (partly because of the ignorance of many who think South West is the cradle of our rugby ; partly because it's the capital city and its over-centralised powers in our country has triggered antipathy ; partly because they kinda bought back their rebirth in the last 20 years). They will become the target to knock down if that happens :pac:.


OR... Or... or. It's the first step of an Irishisation of Top 14 :pac:. We've just created the first province: Paris .

CMOTDibbler

iroced wrote: »

Whatever this is all about (merger, takeover, elite team cooperation), this is just plain RIDICULOUS! This is an insult to History. Racing & Stade Français are the 2 oldest French "professional" rugby clubs. The very first French championship was a one off game between these 2 clubs back in 1892 (Racing won 4-3). This is like Liverpool & Everton merging (or let's extend to 'Pool & Manchester United), Real & Atlético de Madrid, Lazio & AS Roma, Leinster & Munster :pac:...

Lorenzetti justification is so ridiculous. To win more why not "annexing" our closest enemy. Lorenzetti & Savarre making a rugby version of the Molotov-Ribbentropp pact :rolleyes:...

The Parisian clubs were not very popular in France (partly because of the ignorance of many who think South West is the cradle of our rugby ; partly because it's the capital city and its over-centralised powers in our country has triggered antipathy ; partly because they kinda bought back their rebirth in the last 20 years). They will become the target to knock down if that happens :pac:.

There have to be financial reasons for this. Personal financial reasons I've no doubt.

The obliteration of all that history is criminal. Not just one club's history, but two.

Zzippy

Is this a worrying sign that even with all the TV money supposedly flowing into the game in England and France after clubs were given control, and the benefit of rich benefactors, that clubs trying to compete at the top end and spending big money are running into such financial difficulties that they have to merge with their greatest rivals?

Following Simon Thomas on Twitter and he's mentioning serious consideration being given in Wales to downgrading Dragons +1 other region to development teams, and just keeping two fully-funded pro teams.

Are these isolated cases or a symptom of a bigger problem - has the game in general created an epidemic of over-spending that is proving to be unsustainable now?

iroced

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

The obliteration of all that history is criminal. Not just one club's history, but two.

It's even worse than that! It's the whole French championship history that is obliterated.

Very few southern Frenchies would dare admitting it but deep within they loved it when Guazzini "rejuvenated" Stade Français in the mid 90ies. Rivalries with Toulouse, Perpignan & Biarritz (among others) (re-)developped and it created a nice rugby emulation in the country.

And I'm not even mentioning that these 2 clubs are historical multisport French clubs. What about the other sports now?


Ah well... It all started with the Stade Français jersey... I've nothing against the pink and modern marketing stuff. But it should have only been tolerated for the away (or third) jersey (like football clubs are doing). Stade Français colours are blue and red (their blue jersey with red lightnings was just so great). These are the colours of Paris. The colours of France. You'd not expect Liverpool, Manchester United or Munster to abandon their trademark red (though different shade of red) for a new modern bullsh*t marketed pink one, would you?

CatFromHue

As an outside looking in I always liked the mad SF jerseys, they seemed so French and Parisian to me.

PTH2009

London Irish and Wasps
Zebre and Treviso
Munster and Connacht
Leinster and Ulster
Bath and Bristol
Saracens and Harlequins

What other rugby club merges cud happen ??

CatFromHue

Lanelli and Ospreys
Cardiff and Newport
or
Lanelli and Ospreys and Cardiff and Newport, there's only 100Km between Lanelli and Newport

pickarooney

CatFromHue wrote: »

As an outside looking in I always liked the mad SF jerseys, they seemed so French and Parisian to me.

Strange. You'd very rarely see a French adult wear any colour but black, grey or navy. Their kits seem much more archetypal London to me.

CMOTDibbler

iroced wrote: »

It's even worse than that! It's the whole French championship history that is obliterated.

Ah yeah, there's so much history there. Wasn't the first final between the sides reffed by Pierre de Coubertin who went on to found the modern Olympic Games?

iroced wrote: »

Ah well... It all started with the Stade Français jersey... I've nothing against the pink and modern marketing stuff. But it should have only been tolerated for the away (or third) jersey (like football clubs are doing). Stade Français colours are blue and red (their blue jersey with red lightnings was just so great). These are the colours of Paris. The colours of France. You'd not expect Liverpool, Manchester United or Munster to abandon their trademark red (though different shade of red) for a new modern bullsh*t marketed pink one, would you?

I liked the pink jersey, but I'd agree that dropping the traditional colours was wrong. As an away jersey it would have been fine.

iroced

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Ah yeah, there's so much history there. Wasn't the first final between the sides reffed by Pierre de Coubertin who went on to found the modern Olympic Games?

Yes he was!

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I liked the pink jersey, but I'd agree that dropping the traditional colours was wrong. As an away jersey it would have been fine.

Exactly. I never gave any credit to the whole stupid and close-minded "pink is a f*gg*t colour" crap (though Guazzini also did it for that kind of "seismic" response) but to establish it as the main jersey and dropping the historical secular colours of the club was a step too far for me.

And now this merger is the icing on the cake! Again, the worse things are Savarre & Lorenzetti justifications for it :rolleyes:. Basically to be more competitive and be more at ease financially speaking. But these 2 clubs are the last 2 French champions. So they are competitive. If they couldn't/can't manage to stay competitive and not waste their money, that is their own problem.

What should La Rochelle think? If they can't be champion this season, what's next? Merge with Clermont such that they'll have a better shot at the Brennus next year?

I'd like the league or the federation or even the politicians to impede this nonsense. e.g. The Paris town hall funded the new Jean Bouin stadium and gave around 150 millions € to Stade Français. And now it's gonna be a ligue 2 (Red Star) football team stadium? What a joke!

Teferi

In true French fashion the Stade players have voted to strike indefinitely. No training and no match against Castes according to Gav Mortimer.

irishbucsfan

Juicy

.ak

La révolution

iroced

Teferi wrote: »

In true French fashion the Stade players have voted to strike indefinitely. No training and no match against Castes according to Gav Mortimer.

.ak wrote: »

La révolution

In fairness, I'd like all the teams to refuse playing to impede this nonsense!

"Aux armes citoyens! Formez vos bataillons!
Marchons! Marchons!
Qu'un sang impur! Abreuve nos sillons!"

pickarooney

iroced wrote: »

In fairness, I'd like all the teams to refuse playing to impede this nonsense!

"Aux armes citoyens! Formez vos bataillons!
Marchons! Marchons!
Qu'un sang impur! Abreuve nos sillons!"

So you want rid of all the Kiwis and Saffers?

Dravokivich

Teferi wrote: »

In true French fashion the Stade players have voted to strike indefinitely. No training and no match against Castes according to Gav Mortimer.

I can understand why they'd do it though. I've been in a company that has been split and then merged over the last few years. The merge was being planned throughout the split.

The last 10 months, I'd expect there were new signings and renewals. People who have essentially been hoarded into Stade Francias, to be cherry picked now by Racing Metro. Have Racing players shown discontent on it as well?

I'd be quite annoyed by it too myself to be fair.

Cookiemunster

So according to Gavin Mortimer this morning, for every match they refuse to fulfil they are docked 2 points and the opposition get 5. If they fail to fulfil 3 consecutive fixtures they'll be automatically relegated and the rest of their fixtures will be awarded as 5 point walkovers to the opposition.

pickarooney

How do you relegate a club that no longer exists? Will they apply it to Racing Stade Français 92 ?

Season ticket holders at all the clubs SF were due to visit will be robbed of a match, as well as the SF fans who will lose about 20 games.

Lorenzetti has to have seen all this coming.

.ak

iroced wrote: »

In fairness, I'd like all the teams to refuse playing to impede this nonsense!

"Aux armes citoyens! Formez vos bataillons!
Marchons! Marchons!
Qu'un sang impur! Abreuve nos sillons!"

Absolutely.

And if you haven't gone on strike atleast once in your life are you even French?

.ak

.ak wrote: »

Absolutely.

And if you haven't gone on strike atleast once in your life are even French?

Put that on a t shirt now!!!!

iroced

pickarooney wrote: »

So you want rid of all the Kiwis and Saffers?

France has always been a welcoming and sheltering land .

Now, more seriously, we need to find a balance for the amount of foreigners that can play in our league. But it ain't easy. Let's say you go back to some kinda pre-Bosman ruling football equivalent (max 3 foreigners per team). The richest clubs will buy the best French players. Is it better to have the French team spread over 2/3 club? In this debate, I think the academies should be the central point of focus. If you have XV French players but none from your academy, how much better is it than XV foreigners? In a way you're still buying potential success, aren't you? Now, of course, the less foreigners, the more chances young Frenchies will get to play games. But then if it's less competitive, how much more benefitial will it be?

Anyway, top14 has reached some kinda vicious circle point in its competitivity. Clubs are denying their own roots to stay competitive. Montpellier grew and developped thanks to its academy. But when the mess with Galthié exploded, Altrad decided to swith to a South-Africa "B" team to stay at top level. Now SF & RM92 decide to merge. Clubs are terrified by Pro D2 relegation. They saw what happened and is happening to historical rugby places (Narbonne, Béziers, Colomiers, Bourgoin, Perpignan, Biarritz, etc...) and are ready to do anything to avoid it.

I've been calling for a Top14 reform for almost 10 years now and I keep thinking my idea is righter than what is currently happening. A top20 with 2 seeded pools of 10. Less pressure to go down. Less games for the international players which means more working time for Novès (or any Les Bleus coach). More games on TV so broadcaster and sponsors should also be happy. TV rights would be shared between more teams and each team would have less exposure than now (since fewer games) but if the league is competitive and attractive (and if we adapt to modern rugby there's no reason why it shouldn't be) there will be a bigger TV right "jackpot" to share.

pickarooney

You'd have basically two divisions within each pool though with the bottom five clubs of each composed of cross like Albi and Oyonnax and Mont de Marsan getting thumped every second week. If there was no relegation the big teams might even take a chance on trying to win the away games and further the divide.

irishbucsfan

https://twitter.com/gavinmortimer7/status/842033908027928576

Juicy

iroced

pickarooney wrote: »

You'd have basically two divisions within each pool though with the bottom five clubs of each composed of cross like Albi and Oyonnax and Mont de Marsan getting thumped every second week. If there was no relegation the big teams might even take a chance on trying to win the away games and further the divide.

1. It's already the case. Bayonne & Grenoble have never been in contention for the whole season. I called it very very early.
2. It's up to those teams to work well and try to progress. Oyonnax made the top6. UBB or la Rochelle this season are showing that you don't need to buy a dream team to perform.

Currently the problem is that the small teams that perform over-expectations are struggling to confirm the following season(s). Playing both Europe & Top14 is too much for their squad.. With 8 games less played in Top14, they should be able to much better handle the European games.

It's not all about the money. Biarritz & Perpignan have shamefully pointed their lack of financial power when they got relegated. What a fraud! They should have looked at themselves and at all the nonsense within their club before daring speaking about money. Look at Brive. They were close to "explode" at some point and now they're comfortably a mid-table team. A good run and the play-offs aren't unreachable too. There's no fatality.

There are decisions to be taken about the amount of foreigners in the squads, in the playing teams. There is something to be done nationally about our academies. Argentinians came to France to learn and develop. Now it could be our turn to learn from them and work on a national plan for our academies.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

https://twitter.com/gavinmortimer7/status/842033908027928576

Juicy

FFR is unhappy about the substance and furious about the form this fusion attempt took. I don't like Serge Simon but I'll have a lot more esteem for him if he was to impede this nonsense.

irishbucsfan

http://www.lnr.fr/ligue-nationale-rugby/actualites-ligue-nationale-rugby/cp-lnr-report-des-matches-castres-olympique

translation wrote:

The NRL Bureau took into account the unprecedented nature of the situation and decided exceptionally to postpone the Castres Olympique / Stade Français Paris and Montpellier Hérault Rugby / Racing 92 matches this weekend to a later date.
Game postpone dates will be announced by Monday evening.

Juicy

stadedublinois

L'Équipe saying the "merger" has been cancelled.

thomond2006

Confirmed: http://www.racing92.fr/fr/Equipe_Pro/La_fusion_n_aura_pas_lieu-Actualite-49-4924.html

irishbucsfan

aww, end of the drama...

Squidgy Black

Disappointing.

Not that I wanted to see them merged which would have been a travesty, just that we don't get to witness all of the chaos that would've gone on if it progressed.

LeinsterDub

Leaves Stade with few new signings in the last few months and a owner who wants out .