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Push scooters in cycle lanes question

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    #32
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    OP, I wouldn't advise it. Scooter wheels are too small to deal with the potholes, ridges, manhole covers and other irregularities that are common on cycle paths.

    Bells: I have one of those ting-ting-ting bells on the good bike, and while pretty and a beloved gift, it's a pain in the ass and I don't know that people really recognise the sound as a bike bell; it also doesn't penetrate very well through earbuds or earphones. I have the brring-brring kind on the workhorse bike - but it's just not very good, and I'm constantly having to unscrew the lid a bit to make it louder. I think since bicycle bells started being made of aluminium rather than steel, the sound is not loud or clear enough.


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    #33
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,769 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    You can still get brass bicycle bells. They're a bit more expensive, but they're louder and sound nicer. Don't think any bell can be heard over very loud headphones though, and I don't think they're any good for warning people in cars.


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    #34
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    You can still get brass bicycle bells. They're a bit more expensive, but they're louder and sound nicer. Don't think any bell can be heard over very loud headphones though, and I don't think they're any good for warning people in cars.

    The ting-ting kind. Really only designed for cuteness, not warning. The kind I want is the kind I had on my 1960s bike, with a brrrrringggg that would make people leap shrieking out of the way, wild-eyed with terror.


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    #35
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I see a few train commuters using scooters. I've only seen them on the pavements.


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    #36
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,432 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Hills may be an issue.

    You could try a pedal scooter

    Note that if it has a motor and does have pedals you can cycle with, it may be a Pedelec and will be considered a pedal cycle, if the maximum power and maximum speed are restricted to certain levels.

    Note that if it has a motor and doesn't have pedals you can cycle with - a motorised scooter- it's a mechanically propelled vehicle and you need the full works - type approval, registration, tax, insurance, NCT, embarrassment ...


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    #37
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,939 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    I have a confession to make; since I got the cargo bike, which came with a bell, I now like bells.
    I got one free at the Irish cargo bike championships 3 years ago. It is big and purple. It sounds like an old fashioned, wake the house up, doorbell. I love it.

    I'd have no issue with the scooter on that path, plenty of people using it already. For anyone using that path, if a scooter on it is your biggest issue of the day, then either everyone is dead, or you are one of the bigger problems with that path.


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    #38
    TooObvious
    Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭TooObvious


    CramCycle wrote: »
    I got one free at the Irish cargo bike championships 3 years ago.

    I've heard it all now - There's an Irish Cargo Bike Championship??? How does that work?


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    #39
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    CramCycle wrote: »
    I'd have no issue with the scooter on that path, plenty of people using it already. For anyone using that path, if a scooter on it is your biggest issue of the day, then either everyone is dead, or you are one of the bigger problems with that path.

    The issue is whether they should be or can be used on cycle paths. IMO - no. That's not saying I fit your theory as outlined above but the clue is in "cycle lane". They are not footpaths (except where the powers that be had mixed the two), running tracks, dog walking tracks, scatrboard tracks or scooter lanes...they are cycle lanes. The footpath is the place for the scooter.

    By the way I seen a mother and child on an electric one this am. They nearly hit a car as they could not stop before the end of the path at the junction. The only reason they did not was because the car pulled away just in time to avoid a collision. Really responsible parenting!


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    #40
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,939 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    TooObvious wrote: »
    I've heard it all now - There's an Irish Cargo Bike Championship??? How does that work?
    In the pheonix park every year for the last 3. Run in conjunction with different cargo bike shops, bike week and some embassies of more cycle friendly nations. They close off a section of the park and have races along it with a league table. There is a collect the groceries race, sprint with passengers, pick up passengers while U turning, somethingg akin to a jousting competition (to collect rings, not knock off other bike users). Its a bit of craic and a nice family day out.
    Kaisr Sose wrote: »
    The issue is whether they should be or can be used on cycle paths. IMO - no. That's not saying I fit your theory as outlined above but the clue is in "cycle lane". They are not footpaths (except where the powers that be had mixed the two), running tracks, dog walking tracks, scatrboard tracks or scooter lanes...they are cycle lanes. The footpath is the place for the scooter.
    I have no idea what the legalities are, nor could I imagine that the powers that be thought about legislating for adults on push scooters. As a guess, they are closer to bicycle than any other form of transport, and probably should be treated as such. They certainly should not be on footpaths, and I would treat them no different than meeting a slower cyclist. They certainly can be on the bike path, whether they should be, is a matter of debate, not sure it is a big enough issue that members of the Senate are going to debate it although considering the menace of seagulls was considered worthy, who knows.
    The footpath is not the place for an adult scooterer either though, and I certainly would prefer them in the bike path rather than the footpath.


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    #41
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I doubt there will ever be enough scooters for it to cause a problem.


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    #42
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,762 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    TooObvious wrote: »
    I've heard it all now - There's an Irish Cargo Bike Championship??? How does that work?

    Ye, in the Phoenix Park. Gone there myself a few times - got to trial lone out with the little fella up front. Great craic.


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    #43
    Arcade_Tryer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    CramCycle wrote: »


    I have no idea what the legalities are, nor could I imagine that the powers that be thought about legislating for adults on push scooters. As a guess, they are closer to bicycle than any other form of transport, and probably should be treated as such. They certainly should not be on footpaths, and I would treat them no different than meeting a slower cyclist. They certainly can be on the bike path, whether they should be, is a matter of debate, not sure it is a big enough issue that members of the Senate are going to debate it although considering the menace of seagulls was considered worthy, who knows.
    The footpath is not the place for an adult scooterer either though, and I certainly would prefer them in the bike path rather than the footpath.
    A push scooter is closer to a skateboard or roller blades (except safer) in my estimation, taking into account size, speed and potential danger to pedestrians. The place for a push scooter is on the footpath. Cycle lanes are for bicycles, and should remain specifically for that purpose.

    Link to an article about a guy who commutes via push scooter in London. Note the part about using the footpath.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/travelling-to-work-by-scooter-is-faster-than-walking-and-less-sweaty-than-cycling-so-why-aren-t-we-9874017.html


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    #44
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »
    A push scooter is closer to a skateboard or roller blades (except safer) in my estimation, taking into account size, speed and potential danger to pedestrians. The place for a push scooter is on the footpath. Cycle lanes are for bicycles, and should remain specifically for that purpose.

    Link to an article about a guy who commutes via push scooter in London. Note the part about using the footpath.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/travelling-to-work-by-scooter-is-faster-than-walking-and-less-sweaty-than-cycling-so-why-aren-t-we-9874017.html

    Did you just assume his gender


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    #45
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,167 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Problems with push scooters:
    • Low turning radius/momentum - impossible to safely overtake, a cyclist wont do a 90* turn in 50cm
    • Relatively slow compared to a collumn of cyclists
    • No existing legislation controlling them for use on a roadway
    • Appear to drivers like peds - If a driver sees an upright person over a row of slow cars they'll assume they're on the path

    They really dont fit either, but adding more to our roads which are already congested and mis managed is probably not a great idea.

    Passed a Boosted Board using the cycle lane in the opposite direction last week, technically could be done for No Tax, No Insurance, No NCT, Uncertified etc though Im not sure a Garda would know/bother.


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    #46
    Arcade_Tryer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    Tigger wrote: »
    Did you just assume his gender
    Not sure? And sure as hell don't care.
    ED E wrote: »
    Problems with push scooters:
    • Low turning radius/momentum - impossible to safely overtake, a cyclist wont do a 90* turn in 50cm
    • Relatively slow compared to a collumn of cyclists
    • No existing legislation controlling them for use on a roadway
    • Appear to drivers like peds - If a driver sees an upright person over a row of slow cars they'll assume they're on the path

    They really dont fit either, but adding more to our roads which are already congested and mis managed is probably not a great idea.
    .
    Push scooters are fine on footpaths. Restricting their use to cycle lanes and roads would be ridiculous for a variety of reasons. Firstly, it would be incredibly dangerous to use one on the road. Cyclists of all people should understand this. Secondly, it would make them impractical, given the main advantage of a push scooter is the increased mobility it offers as opposed to even a bike; short city commutes at relatively low speeds without the need for expensive and cumbersome bicycles and gear.


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    #47
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »
    Not sure? And sure as hell don't care.
    Push scooters are fine on footpaths. Restricting their use to cycle lanes and roads would be ridiculous for a variety of reasons. Firstly, it would be incredibly dangerous to use one on the road. Cyclists of all people should understand this. Secondly, it would make them impractical, given the main advantage of a push scooter is the increased mobility it offers as opposed to even a bike; short city commutes at relatively low speeds without the need for expensive and cumbersome bicycles and gear.

    The writer is called Jane


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    #48
    Arcade_Tryer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    Tigger wrote: »
    The writer is called Jane
    Did you just assume their gender?


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    #49
    triggermortis
    Registered Users Posts: 2,684 ✭✭✭triggermortis


    When I lived in Zurich it was common to see loads of people using push scooters between their bus/tram/train journeys.
    My 5 year old insists on taking hers in the car every morning to pre-school to skate from the car into the school. I rode it back to the car one morning and still have nightmares from the abuse and catcalls directed at me from a yard full of 5 - 10 year olds! I will only ride it around the garden now (usually after dark, just to be safe)


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    #50
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Annie get your Run wrote: »
    Please don't use your scooter on a cycle track. Had one of these on my route today, the path beside the cycle track was completely clear, the 'rider' or whatever you call scooter folks was going the same direction as me so couldn't see that I was coming up behind him, had to let a shout for him to move :rolleyes:

    Would you have the same approach as a slow moving cyclist? Or are they exempt from experiencing your behavior? Why exactly should the scooter move out of your way? Why didn't you wait to overtake safely?

    They really dont fit either, but adding more to our roads which are already congested and mis managed is probably not a great idea.

    Are you referring to motorized vehicles or the scooter? If the vehicle is capable of 20 Kmph+ then you could say why would they not be allowed on the road too?

    In Germany all wheeled transport (without motor) uses the cycle lane, there's no issues at all. Inline skates, scooters, skateboards etc.

    Like motorists, cyclists need to adjust their mentality to cater for the "new" form of transport. This idea that cycle lanes are exclusively for cycles is no different to what a lot of car/van/bus/truck/motorbike drivers think about roads. Scooters are fantastic, and very convenient for people using public transport. Dublin is not very well connected at all, let alone the rest of Ireland.


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    #51
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,617 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    was passed by one of those retrofitted garden gate bikes with a two stroke engine earlier. my main issue with them is the noise; it was several times louder than a motorbike.


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    #52
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    was passed by one of those retrofitted garden gate bikes with a two stroke engine earlier. my main issue with them is the noise; it was several times louder than a motorbike.

    I really don't see why these should be in cycle lanes; they're motorised…


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    #53
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    was passed by one of those retrofitted garden gate bikes with a two stroke engine earlier. my main issue with them is the noise; it was several times louder than a motorbike.

    They aren't legal in Ireland. AFAIK.


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    #54
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,769 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    I like the notion that scooters are "less sweaty" than bicycles. Yes, I'd be fresh as a daisy after my 15km commute in the morning if only I had the wisdom to do it using only one foot.


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    #55
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Rayne Better Scraper wrote: »
    ...In Germany all wheeled transport (without motor) uses the cycle lane, there's no issues at all. Inline skates, scooters, skateboards etc.

    Like motorists, cyclists need to adjust their mentality to cater for the "new" form of transport. This idea that cycle lanes are exclusively for cycles is no different to what a lot of car/van/bus/truck/motorbike drivers think about roads. Scooters are fantastic, and very convenient for people using public transport. Dublin is not very well connected at all, let alone the rest of Ireland.

    I don't see the problem, live and let live.

    As cyclist I have a problem with cyclists who cycle at a reckless speed in a cycle lane. Especially if its a lane that's very likely to be used others moving slowly. Give respect and empathy to other users, get it in return.


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    #56
    Parchment
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭Parchment


    Why would you go in a cycle lane? These scooters were a huge deal in Aberdeen when i lived there. Parents took their kids to school on them then the parent traveled on to work on the scooter. Never once saw one being used on a road/cycle lane - always on the footpath.


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    #57
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Parchment wrote: »
    Why would you go in a cycle lane? These scooters were a huge deal in Aberdeen when i lived there. Parents took their kids to school on them then the parent traveled on to work on the scooter. Never once saw one being used on a road/cycle lane - always on the footpath.

    I assume because its clearer of pedestrians.


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    #58
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,769 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    It's a curious attitude that scooters are safer than bicycles too. You're much more likely to take a spill on a scooter, with the small wheels, high centre of gravity (nearly over the front wheel too) and terrible brakes.

    Nothing against scooters myself. They're just not suitable for anything but very short, unladen journeys.


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    #59
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Who thinks they are safer?


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    #60
    Fian
    Registered Users Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭Fian


    Chuchote wrote: »
    The ting-ting kind. Really only designed for cuteness, not warning. The kind I want is the kind I had on my 1960s bike, with a brrrrringggg that would make people leap shrieking out of the way, wild-eyed with terror.

    http://www.airzound.co.uk/

    I use this (sensibly and never at pedestrians!) to alert cars which are crowding me or being oblivious to me. I think it is genuinely valuable as a safety device for my commute. I need to pump it every month or so, so not even most times i am pumping up my tyres.

    It is loud, it is not appropriate to warn pedestrians because it would scare them. Though when i had it first i did succumb to the temptation to blast a teenager who was showing off to some girls by sauntering along in the bike lane beside the canal holding up the traffic there. He jumped two feet in the air then took a swing at me when i cycled past him laughing. Anyway i have been more sensible since and have never beeped a pedestrian again.

    It sounds like a car horn, though possibly a little bit higher pitched which means it penetrates louder. If someone is drifting into the cycle lane the react pretty immediately when they think that there is a vehicle rather than a cyclist inside them.


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    #61
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,769 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    beauf wrote: »
    Who thinks they are safer?


    Parents. You see families going along, and the child on the bike has a helmet and the child on the scooter doesn't.


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