BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

Graham

paulboland wrote: »

Are you even affected by the bus eireann strike at all
Yes or No

I'm not going to tell you. It's not relevant either way.

n97 mini

paulboland wrote: »

If you drive a car you got no understanding of the impact of a bus strike on commuters that rely on public transport.

All you have to deal with is some extra traffic on roads during a strike which is nothing.

I just even more curious as to how many other posted in this thread posting away not even affect by any transport strike.

Good luck later in life when you can no longer drive a car and totally rely on public transport I will listen to you then.

Goodnight and bye

Equally if you never learned to drive you don't understand the freedom it gives you. You're always a potential victim. But hey you makes your choices, so don't blame others when they don't work out!

paulboland

n97 mini wrote: »

Equally if you never learned to drive you don't understand the freedom it gives you. You're always a potential victim. But hey you makes your choices, so don't blame others when they don't work out!

You don't get it posting away in the thread about a bus eireann strike and your not even affected by the strike.

You would not even be affected if Dublin Bus Dart and Irish Rail went on strike

Do you get it now

A lot of the public are affected by transport strikes try and see from their side please.

Look at it from a point of view you did not drive a car

Graham

paulboland wrote: »

You don't get it posting away in the thread about a bus eireann strike and your not even affected by the strike

You would not even be affected if Dublin Bus Dart and Irish Rail went on strike

Do you get it now

This thread isn't restricted to BE users.

howiya

Graham wrote: »

This thread isn't restricted to BE users.

You can't win. The unions weren't happy when nobody was talking about the strike...

paulboland

Graham wrote: »

This thread isn't restricted to BE users.

This thread is about the BE strike

If your not affected by the strike then please look at as to how it's affecting those who do use BE transport and the impact it's causing them.

If Dublin bus or dart or Irish rail went on strike as in all out strike
Me as someone affected by a bus strike would understand those in Dublin if they ended up experience the same left with no public transport to use


Maybe it might be good idea to let Dublin experience this a bit more than the wildcat strike but if you drive a car you would still not be affected.

The whole point of the thread is BE strike and the biggest part of this is the impact it's causing on the public who use public transport

That would also apply to Dublin if it was a all out transport strike

The wildcat Dublin Bus/Dart/Irish Rail strike and yes it was not cool with no notice put the outcry was lot louder yet it was only for 5 hours compared to 18 days of Bus Eireann customers have being experiencing


There is a lot of the public affected by the strike try look at this strike and how it's affecting them please

Graham

paulboland wrote: »

This thread is about the BE strike

Correct. Any chance of returning to the subject rather than focusing on your opinion of who should be posting?

paulboland

Graham wrote: »

Correct. Any chance of returning to the subject rather than focusing on your opinion of who should be posting?

Yes and that is what I have posted and is also a member of the public who been directly impacted by the strike.


What have you to say on the BE strike and it's impact it causing the public affected

Cookie_Monster

paulboland wrote: »

I rather you never driven a car and totally relied on public transport

It's not one or the other you know...
I drive but I cycle to work... and I used to get the bus back in the day despite owning a car then too.

A weeks worth of taxi fares would by you a decent bike you know. No one is forcing you to take taxis, that's just your preference in the situation

Bass Reeves

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I think that O'Leary and Noone took a punt and it would appear, have lost badly.

I still cannot understand why they went 'All out indefinite' given the precarious position of the company!

There was almost zero public support given the circs.

O'Leary and Noone have major questions to answer as a result of this, in my opinion.

Could be career ending stuff for those two lads, in my opinion .

I think there was a bit of intra union riverily as well the NBRU tried to interfeare in the LUAS where SIPTU have sole reperesentive rights. SIPTU really has to cop itself on and show leadership in dispute situations. Noone may have taught he was going places, O@leary has a presonel feifdom

howiya wrote: »

Did they not give in to the Gardai recently. Technically they're not a union but the government did cave into their demands

And I think they learned from there lesson

Voipjunkie wrote: »

If you swallow everything whole, that you have been told, but alternatively you could wait and see what happens, looks to me like BE will be ditching the worst performing parts of its expressway service, and voluntary redundancy for the staff involved, given that it is possible that the terms of the remaining staff who apparently aren't in a loss making situation won't have to be as severely cut as they would have been to maintain the expressway service.

The rest is dressing to large extent, the litter picking is a headline grabber that doesn't yield any kind of real saving, and increased driving hours will happen defacto with the demise of the expressway as it appears the nature of the way that service operated was where the big overtime and driver hours were being lost, not on the school runs or the urban services in the cities.

The first use check is EU regulation, again not a cost saver if anything a drag on driving hour average, but it has to come in one way or the other already in Dublin bus.

The fuel saving thing, again more of a headliner than an actual saving, they only have it on 200 odd buses and most of them are probably the more recent buses used on expressway which will probably be sold on anyway, DB pushed for this a few years back but still haven't brought it in afaik.

I afraid you are clueless. Things like litter pick are more than headline grabber on even small to medium haul bus journeys. There is nothing more off putting than to be going down through a bus and having rubbish on the floor and seats.

Why did they want the school buses out because it was seen as a possible get out of goal card. However it was unlikely part time drivers would scarfice wages to support fulltime workers. Fuel saving is large cost to the transport industry in most sectors it equivlent to wages.

Voipjunkie wrote: »

Where is the money coming from for voluntary redundancies ? BE claimed they didn't have it, now apparently they do ? I wouldn't be so quick to presume Ross hasn't been involved behind the scenes.

An alternative view would be that BE workers flexed their muscles the last Friday in March within​ 2 days their unions were brought in for talks at the WRC without calling off the strike, something the WRC usually insist on for talks, and money has been found to fund voluntary redundancies, i wouldn't go patting him on the back yet til we see what the actual details of this and how it is being funded.

Statuary redundancy is 1.5/year of service but includes OT payments.I imaginre that any deal will be capped at 2 years of pensionable pay. OT will not be included. It will not be much higher than normal entitlements.

Another interpetation would be DOL went on a solo run and was handed his h*l# on a plate

paulboland wrote: »

Ask the 110,000 commuters each day affected what answer you expecting from them

The business that are now close to going out of business due to the strike ask them also

There is a lot of the public with no choice of private transport to use at the moment and Bus Eireann is the only transport provider

Rubbish Independents small business rowed in behind the government as well as ordinary workers. This was total defeat

n97 mini wrote: »

The redundancy money has been found? A few hours ago it hadn't.

18 days on strike and the union aren't getting all their demands. A minor victory against the unions, but a victory nonetheless.

In real terms it will bea bit with statuary. more than a minor victory.

ThisRegard wrote: »

State pays statutory, no mention yet of what's in addition to that, although I don't imagine it'll be too little.

If it base on basic pay and allowances and capped ta two years not a whole pile.

Voipjunkie wrote: »

Well I'm only going on the media reports that the company and unions have agreed to voluntary redundancy, are you suggesting the company is entering into a commitment they have no prospect or no idea how they will fund it ?

They surely clearly know the money is there otherwise the agreement is a waste of time, so ask yourself where has the money come from ? I'm sure it won't come directly from the DOT as payment for redundancies it will probably come through CIE but where will they be getting it from ? They didn't find it down the back of a couch up in Heuston station.

Read what I posted above it will mainly be higher paid and older drivers that exit. If it capped at 2 years max in effect it statuary

ThisRegard wrote: »

Might have given you a great pension package at one time though when looking to reduce headcount.

Opps CIE/BE fund is a shambles

Voipjunkie wrote: »

Logic ?

Logic is we need 3 million ask for 6, don't believe all the head lines you read, very little of it is true from either side.

The only clear saving is redundancies from the total or partial closure of expressway,

Consolidated pay doesn't necessarily mean less pay it can just mean pay is no longer basic+ shift + Sunday premium, plus bank holiday etc just a larger basic that takes account of all of those, afaik that's how Luas employees are paid.

Picking up empty coke cans and papers is not a multi million euro saver.

I remember Siptu and the NBRU banging heads about this a few months back, O'Leary said some expressway would probably have to go, Siptu said no, so not exactly a new or novel suggestion

https://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1211/838134-bus-union-routes/

That's from December last year,

Rubbish the savings required were 12 million, unions offered 500k. Nobody expect workers to work B/H and Sundays for nothing. This is common across all private sector employment except retail where students work. Litter pick is not about savings it about attracting business and adding value. This really show how narrow your vision is and unions in general

Voipjunkie wrote: »

I love an optimist, this is the same NTA that have been tendering the 10% of bus eireann and Dublin bus for the last 4 years.

Tendering only begins from next year on into 2019 when all routes are tendered

paulboland wrote: »

I got into work each day but at a very expensive cost
It's cost me 480.00 Euro since March 24th to get to work and home again using a Taxi

Some are only slightly affected by the strike but there is a lot like me who have been also serious affected

It's easy for some to post in the thread who are not affected or even close to understanding what some of the public experiencing

Some paying 20 for a taxi is nothing to my 80 a day it's costing me as well as others who have had high costs and no private bus to use

If the strike affected lot more like me and others they would have different take on things

If the strike starts to include Dublin Bus and Dart and Irish Rail the opinions and post will change in a big way

Dublin Bus and Dart and Irish Rail is also funded by the tax payers

That life some of us have to live in the real work and arrange to get to work without a bus service. we cannot even depend on BE to take our kids even part of the way to college and pay through the nose for it until recently. As John Hume said the Good Friday agreement was Sunningdale for slow learners. You cannot expect the taxpayer to always pick up your transport bills

paulboland wrote: »

Dublin public still had Dart and Dublin Bus and Irish Rail
The loss of the Luas service was minor compared to what the public who live outside dublin been experiencing

Even the Dublin Bus strike was only the odd day

A lot could walk or cycle to work or get a taxi but not the level of costs it costing those outside Dublin


I lived in Dublin for years and giving my age away saw the effect of the Dublin Bus strike in the 70's

Dublin has a lot more transport options than the rest of Rep of Ireland
You need to experience full shutdown of all transport services then you will look at things lot different

Could you cope with no transport options at all if all transport services was on strike in Dublin as in you had no options beside a Taxi and your location of work cost you 80 a day in taxis
Could you cope with this I'm curious

This is what we are telling you all week long Monopolys are bad if there was multiple providers only a fraction of the country would be at risk

end of the road wrote: »

nope. there really is no victory against the unions here. both sides in a dispute will always put up more demands then what they are actually looking for and negotiate from there.

Incorrect we will await the long to medium term savings

end of the road wrote: »

i disagree, the union's claim that a lot of people would be effected has been proven correct. 110000 people is still a lot of people effected. i'd suggest pauls situation may not be quite the exception to the rule you claim.

Rubbish rural Ireland refused to be held to ransom. Paul has to start to live in the real world like the reast of us and adapt to reality. We need a Public bus service that serves the public not the workers

end of the road wrote: »

the tax payer has a duty to save a public service. i as a tax payer am prowd that my money is used for public services. there is absolutely no reason not to hire bus eireann employees, their experience would be welcome in a company, and experienced drivers are what companies most likely tend to go for. the PSO should be publically owned to insure that politicians can still be held responsible for downgrades or cuts if they were ever to happen. bus eireann also should be involved in commercial services to bring more competition to routes.

Incorrect public service is to serve the public not the workers. At a basic of 35K there are nearly double the minimum wage and that before consilidated pay and extra's. If we tender politicans are still accountable it jsut inefficiencies are eliminated.

end of the road wrote: »

if it takes 4 years and counting to tender 10% of routes, then i'd suggest a weak to have a temporary anything would translate to being a lot longer, possibly years longer.

No rush they are only allowed to tender that amount its a learning curve

paulboland wrote: »

Dublin Bus strike was nothing compared to Bus Eireann Strike
Dublin bus was not on strike for 18 days it was a minor inconvenience of 1 day or 2 days on and off

The last long bus strike was in the 70's it was 65 days that was a pain and back then we had no dart or luas service and very limited train service

I lived in Dublin for 40 years I do know Dublin very well

I am not sure you do I think you live in an alternate world

[

Cookie_Monster

paulboland wrote: »

This thread is about the BE strike

If your not affected by the strike then please look at as to how it's affecting those who do use BE transport and the impact it's causing them.

EVERYONE is affected; directly or indirectly. Either as a transport user or as a taxpayer seeing their money wasted on such a company instead of being efficiently spent.

paulboland

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

It's not one or the other you know...
I drive but I cycle to work... and I used to get the bus back in the day despite owning a car then too.

A weeks worth of taxi fares would by you a decent bike you know. No one is forcing you to take taxis, that's just your preference in the situation

The distance is 16 miles each way as in 32 miles round trip with most of it uphill try cycle that after a 12 hour night shift at age 51 and do it with less than 4 hours sleep each day

Graham

paulboland wrote: »

What have you to say on the BE strike and it's impact it causing the public affected

It's unfortunate that the management, staff and union leaders of a monopoly service provider encouraged by decades of political interference have allowed, encouraged and fought for Bus Eireann to become the non-viable operator it is today teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.

paulboland

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

EVERYONE is affected; directly or indirectly. Either as a transport user or as a taxpayer seeing their money wasted on such a company instead of being efficiently spent.

What would you feel about Dublin Bus also PSO routes also funded by the tax payer and Dart also funded by the Tax Payer

Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann are part of the same company called CIE

Yes I can understand those who drive a car but it's not the same as a member of the public who relies on public transport your view is different and the impact of the use of public transport is also different if your not affected by a strike or need to use public transport.

It's a different experience

Public transport is essential public service and is best funded by the public for the public

Cookie_Monster

paulboland wrote: »

The distance is 16 miles each way as in 32 miles round trip with most of it uphill try cycle that after a 12 hour night shift at age 51 and do it with less than 4 hours sleep each day

26km is just over an hour. It's hardly mostly uphill both ways either now is it? In fact it's a 100m rise over 26km...
What has age got to do with it or the number of hours you sleep at night?
Clearly it suits you to take a taxi, pay for it and dismiss the potential alternatives, you've no one to blame but yourself here IMO.

Graham

paulboland wrote: »

Public transport is essential public service and is best funded by the public for the public

Most people have no issue with socially necessary public transport being subsidised by the state. The issue is generally how/where the subsidy is spent.

Cookie_Monster

paulboland wrote: »

What would you feel about Dublin Bus also PSO routes also funded by the tax payer and Dart also funded by the Tax Payer

what would I feel about DB what? If they went on strike? I'd cycle or walk or get a lift or deal with it one way or the other.

Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann are part of the same company called CIE

And?
Don't forget IE too

Yes I can understand those who drive a car but it's not the same as a member of the public who relies on public transport your view is different and the impact of the use of public transport is also different if your not affected by a strike or need to use public transport.

Why would you soley rely on PT without any other provision though? Need to take a bit of self responsibility here and have plans in place. Needn't be strike related, what if bus breaks down without a replacement available for instance?

Public transport is essential public service and is best funded by the public for the public

What has that got to do with BE striking?

paulboland

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

26km is just over an hour. It's hardly mostly uphill both ways either now is it? In fact it's a 100m rise over 26km...
What has age got to do with it or the number of hours you sleep at night?
Clearly it suits you to take a taxi, pay for it and dismiss the potential alternatives, you've no one to blame but yourself here IMO.

Its lot more than 1 hour it's 1 hour 40 min and that includes the few downhill parts.

You ever work 4 or 5 (12 hour night shifts ) week by any chance with average only 4 hours sleep each day

I gather your not my age 51

There is a big difference been 20 and 51
You also need to take into account the job must be wide awake and alert at all times as in never ever be asleep on the job.

I have nothing to blame in myself I like many others of the population have a right to rely on public transport.


If you don't like public transport that's your choice but you will at some stage rely on public transport as you get older or rely on others to bring you from A-B

Don't forget there is a number of reasons as to why some of the public cant drive a car or be in a position to do this and this can be to lot of age groups.

FA Hayek

Sorry but if it takes you 1 hour 40 minutes to cycle 26 km, are you really cycling at all. 20kph is an easy cycle, at an easy pace.
If you cannot cycle faster then that then you are either lying, or grossly overweight/unfit, which should make you think of cycling a bit more.

paulboland

FA Hayek wrote: »

Sorry but if it takes you 1 hour 40 minutes to cycle 26 km, are you really cycling at all. 20kph is an easy cycle, at an easy pace.
If you cannot cycle faster then that then you are either lying, or grossly overweight/unfit, which should make you think of cycling a bit more.

The actual time with all cycle maps routes is 1 hour 30 min
A lot is uphill by the way
11 miles per hour average
I done it in 1.40
That is only 10 min extra
The 10 min extra is not cycling time
My actual cycle time is 1.28 min

Do you work 12 hour night shifts and how old are you

Do you cycle that distance after a 12 hour night shift
Thats 26km each way as in 52km round trip
4 night shifts a week with only 4 hours sleep a day

Special Circumstances

paulboland wrote: »

The actual time with all cycle maps routes is 1 hour 30 min
A lot is uphill by the way
11 miles per hour average
I done it in 1.40
That is only 10 min extra
The 10 min extra is not cycling time
My actual cycle time is 1.28 min

Do you work 12 hour night shifts and how old are you

Do you cycle that distance after a 12 hour night shift
Thats 26km each way as in 52km round trip
4 night shifts a week with only 4 hours sleep a day

Is more than half of the round-trip uphill? That's very very unfair.

kiaronh

end of the road wrote: »

nope. there really is no victory against the unions here. both sides in a dispute will always put up more demands then what they are actually looking for and negotiate from there.

Except BE didn't do that. They said: "We lost 6 million last year. We need to plug that gap".

The drivers offered savings of 0.5 million.

BE aren't going to split the difference and agree to lose 3 million a year because then they will still be insolvent.

The unions approached this like these savings were an option that could be negotiated, rather than a necessity so that the company had money to pay wages.

the tax payer has a duty to save a public service.

The taxpayer has no duty to fund BE. It's fair and sensible that the country invests in a public transport network but if the same service can be done cheaper privately then we should go for that.

i as a tax payer am prowd that my money is used for public services. there is absolutely no reason not to hire bus eireann employees, their experience would be welcome in a company, and experienced drivers are what companies most likely tend to go for.

They also like employees who turn up for work.If the drivers force BE into insolvency rather than accept losses whoever eventually replaces BE might be a bit wary of just rehiring the same staff again.

Legally that could be very tricky, but it would be a worry that we could be here again and again if they just kept hiring the same people who kept striking and forcing the country to a standstill.

the PSO should be publically owned to insure that politicians can still be held responsible for downgrades or cuts if they were ever to happen.

Politicians can always be held responsible because the NTA sets the PSO routes. It doesn't mean the operator needs to be a public company.

Transdev can't decide to stop running the green line for example.

bus eireann also should be involved in commercial services to bring more competition to routes.

No issue with that. But if they can't compete they won't get routes. And demands that the government get involved and five them extra cash to "compete" aren't going to fly.

Voipjunkie

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Voipjunkie wrote: »

If you swallow everything whole, that you have been told, but alternatively you could wait and see what happens, looks to me like BE will be ditching the worst performing parts of its expressway service, and voluntary redundancy for the staff involved, given that it is possible that the terms of the remaining staff who apparently aren't in a loss making situation won't have to be as severely cut as they would have been to maintain the expressway service.

The rest is dressing to large extent, the litter picking is a headline grabber that doesn't yield any kind of real saving, and increased driving hours will happen defacto with the demise of the expressway as it appears the nature of the way that service operated was where the big overtime and driver hours were being lost, not on the school runs or the urban services in the cities.

The first use check is EU regulation, again not a cost saver if anything a drag on driving hour average, but it has to come in one way or the other already in Dublin bus.

The fuel saving thing, again more of a headliner than an actual saving, they only have it on 200 odd buses and most of them are probably the more recent buses used on expressway which will probably be sold on anyway, DB pushed for this a few years back but still haven't brought it in afaik.

I afraid you are clueless. Things like litter pick are more than headline grabber on even small to medium haul bus journeys. There is nothing more off putting than to be going down through a bus and having rubbish on the floor and seats.

Why did they want the school buses out because it was seen as a possible get out of goal card. However it was unlikely part time drivers would scarfice wages to support fulltime workers. Fuel saving is large cost to the transport industry in most sectors it equivlent to wages.

Voipjunkie wrote: »

Where is the money coming from for voluntary redundancies ? BE claimed they didn't have it, now apparently they do ? I wouldn't be so quick to presume Ross hasn't been involved behind the scenes.

An alternative view would be that BE workers flexed their muscles the last Friday in March within​ 2 days their unions were brought in for talks at the WRC without calling off the strike, something the WRC usually insist on for talks, and money has been found to fund voluntary redundancies, i wouldn't go patting him on the back yet til we see what the actual details of this and how it is being funded.

Statuary redundancy is 1.5/year of service but includes OT payments.I imaginre that any deal will be capped at 2 years of pensionable pay. OT will not be included. It will not be much higher than normal entitlements.

Another interpetation would be DOL went on a solo run and was handed his h*l# on a plate

n97 mini wrote: »

The redundancy money has been found? A few hours ago it hadn't.

18 days on strike and the union aren't getting all their demands. A minor victory against the unions, but a victory nonetheless.

In real terms it will bea bit with statuary. more than a minor victory.

ThisRegard wrote: »

State pays statutory, no mention yet of what's in addition to that, although I don't imagine it'll be too little.

If it base on basic pay and allowances and capped ta two years not a whole pile.

Voipjunkie wrote: »

Well I'm only going on the media reports that the company and unions have agreed to voluntary redundancy, are you suggesting the company is entering into a commitment they have no prospect or no idea how they will fund it ?

They surely clearly know the money is there otherwise the agreement is a waste of time, so ask yourself where has the money come from ? I'm sure it won't come directly from the DOT as payment for redundancies it will probably come through CIE but where will they be getting it from ? They didn't find it down the back of a couch up in Heuston station.

Read what I posted above it will mainly be higher paid and older drivers that exit. If it capped at 2 years max in effect it statuary

Voipjunkie wrote: »

Logic ?

Logic is we need 3 million ask for 6, don't believe all the head lines you read, very little of it is true from either side.

The only clear saving is redundancies from the total or partial closure of expressway,

Consolidated pay doesn't necessarily mean less pay it can just mean pay is no longer basic+ shift + Sunday premium, plus bank holiday etc just a larger basic that takes account of all of those, afaik that's how Luas employees are paid.

Picking up empty coke cans and papers is not a multi million euro saver.

I remember Siptu and the NBRU banging heads about this a few months back, O'Leary said some expressway would probably have to go, Siptu said no, so not exactly a new or novel suggestion

https://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1211/838134-bus-union-routes/

That's from December last year,

Rubbish the savings required were 12 million, unions offered 500k. Nobody expect workers to work B/H and Sundays for nothing. This is common across all private sector employment except retail where students work. Litter pick is not about savings it about attracting business and adding value. This really show how narrow your vision is and unions in general

Voipjunkie wrote: »

I love an optimist, this is the same NTA that have been tendering the 10% of bus eireann and Dublin bus for the last 4 years.

Tendering only begins from next year on into 2019 when all routes are tendered

You missed the point completely, litter picking and first use are like the captain of the Titanic announcing the new arrangement for the deck chairs and the breakfast menu for tomorrow morning, not bad things but they won't stop the ship from sinking.

Statutory redundancy is 2 weeks per year of service capped at €600 a week, voluntary is likely to be far more favorable than that.

All services are not up for open tender in 2019 and tendering was meant to have started by now, still nothing announced after 4 years.

kiaronh

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/0411/866841-bus-eireann-wrc/
RTE saying no deal last night, unlikely to be a deal. Looks like it's heading to the Labour Court if BE can last that long

amcalester

kiaronh wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/0411/866841-bus-eireann-wrc/
RTE saying no deal last night, unlikely to be a deal. Looks like it's heading to the Labour Court if BE can last that long

I'm not all that surprised. If the attitude of some posters on here mirrors that of the unions and drivers then a deal was probably never going to get done.

Gael23

How soon is a Labour court hearing likely to happen?

L1011

BE will be going to the ordinary courts for examinership before they get to the Labour Court.

Voipjunkie

L1011 wrote: »

BE will be going to the ordinary courts for examinership before they get to the Labour Court.

News says to the labour court likely today both  sides have agreed to attend so unlikely i would imagine.

trellheim

Typical NBRU intransigence - would not even take the deal and put it to the members , I swear I do not know what goes through peoples heads .

We are now in serious danger of losing BE - do people not see that - is it wanting to watch the world burn ? There was always going to be a paycut Willie ....

Waterford Crystal here we go.


You will not get LC arbitration that quickly when at some point a paycut has to be taken.

Patser

Gael23 wrote: »

How soon is a Labour court hearing likely to happen?

Set for 3pm today

ThisRegard

The 2 unions don't want to face their members with the only deal they could come up with, so are using the LC to take the decision out of their hands and lay the blame at others.

bk

paulboland wrote: »

One private bus operator covering off peak what about all the other private bus operators

Majority of the private bus operators don't cover off peak hours

Easy to point out one operator

I'm sorry, have you not been reading my posts, did you ignore my list of multiple private operators who operate off peak services, here I'll give you a detailed list, as you can see far more then just one company, in fact most privates operate off peak services:

- Aircoach Route 700: Dublin Airport to Dublin City Centre/Leopardstown/Sandyford (24/7)
- Aircoach Route 702: Dublin Airport to Greystones/Bray (24/7)
- Aircoach Route 703: Dublin Airport to Killiney/Dalkey (24/7)
- Aircoach Route 704 X: Cork - Dublin City - Dublin Airport Express (22/7)
- Aircoach Route 705 X: Belfast - Dublin Airport - Dublin City Express (23/7)
http://aircoach.ie/timetables
- Dublin Coach N7 Service: Portlaoise to Dublin Airport (24/7)
- Dublin Coach M7 Service: Limerick - Dublin (21/7)
- Dublin Coach Dublin Airport - Dundrum (20/7)
http://dublincoach.ie/timetables-fares/dublin-coach-routes.php
- Citylink: Galway - Dublin (21/7)
- Citylink/Eireagle: Limerick to Dublin Airport, only runs at night, off peak!
http://www.citylink.ie/timetables
- GoBus: Galway to Dublin (operates 19/20 hours a day)
http://www.gobus.ie/timetable.php

And the above doesn't include JJKavangh, Swords Express and a bunch of other routes and companies, who while not 24/7, certainly operate off peak services (for instance Swords Express operates to midnight, JJKavangh have 4am departures, etc.).

Actually you see most of the private operators in Ireland operate off peak services, in fact they seem very enthusiastic about it.

I have to say, taking the time to go through all the various timetables, it is now obvious why the BE strike hasn't had such a big effect, these private operators operate a massive amount of routes and departures, many more then even I knew!

Brendan Bendar

ThisRegard wrote: »

The 2 unions don't want to face their members with the only deal they could come up with, so are using the LC to take the decision out of their hands and lay the blame at others.

Yes, that's how I see it too.

After dragging their members out for 19 days, O'Leary and Noone seem to have hit the buffers.

A possible scenario could be to use the closure of BE as a reason to bring out DB and IE ?

Would that be possible I wonder? Would there be an appetite for that?

mickmmc

On Morning Ireland this morning, the reporter mentioned that BE offered €19.20 as a consolidated pay rate per hour (ie. €748.80 for 39 hour week or €39,937.60 per annum). The unions sought €22 per hour (ie. €858 for 39hr week or €44,616 per annum). The difference between the sides is €109.20 per week or €5,678.40 per annum. That is a significant gap for both sides to bridge.

Brendan Bendar

mickmmc wrote: »

On Morning Ireland this morning, the reporter mentioned that BE offered €19.20 as a consolidated pay rate per hour (ie. €748.80 for 39 hour week or €39,937.60 per annum). The unions sought €22 per hour (ie. €858 for 39hr week or €44,616 per annum). The difference between the sides is €109.20 per week or €5,678.40 per annum. That is a significant gap for both sides to bridge.

Good points there, but maybe with the 'efficiencies' promised a 'split the difference' might be an option?

According to Noone there are no concessions at all from management on their pay and conditions.

I find that very difficult to understand,given that it would appear that vs private companies there is an imbalance on the admin side in BE.

Hopefully sense will prevail and a workable solution will be found.

jamesbere

So what will happen now that its gone to the labour court

CIARAN_BOYLE

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I find that very difficult to understand,given that it would appear that vs private companies there is an imbalance on the admin side in BE.

Hopefully sense will prevail and a workable solution will be found.

Do you think there is an imbalance? How have you quantified it? To be honest given the number of members on strike claimed by the press and the number of staff members per the last bus eireann annual report I have been wondering how the company gets by with so so few management (probably outsources a lot of services).

Brendan Bendar

jamesbere wrote: »

So what will happen now that its gone to the labour court

It's a bit like the dispute resolution forum here.

The two 'protagonists' cannot come to agreement so an 'independent ' body looks into it and issues reccommendations.

Non binding in this case.

But it removes some of the heat from the issues

ixoy

Are the unions concerned about losing face more than the people they represent? Surely they should be letting their members decide on the deal one way or the other.
I also find it difficult to believe that they found €18 million in actual savings.

Cookie_Monster

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Good points there, but maybe with the 'efficiencies' promised a 'split the difference' might be an option?

we all know how that will end though. Pay rise immediately, 5 years later we'll still be waiting for full implementation of the efficiencies.

sunbeam

Any idea of how long the labour court hearing might last-hours, days, weeks?

I was really hoping I wouldn't have to miss a second hospital appointment because of this fiasco.

L1011

ixoy wrote: »

I also find it difficult to believe that they found €18 million in actual savings.

There's an "over X years" left out of that statement.

trellheim

Unless the LC is prepped they will need plenty of time - This is perfectly reasonable as you need to do adequate justice to both sides ( and tbh I cannot see what they can do that the WRC cannot )

Its worth remembering that LC talks typically drag on for a long time - I recall last years LUAS LC talks taking months to decide on.

Now - unless the fix is in - and it may well be a case of the union saving face here instead -

Surprised SIPTU haven't let their members decide - must be some interesting politics going on.

But - staying out this long is letting the fire catch .... are we at the point where its easier to let it burn ?

ixoy

L1011 wrote: »

There's an "over X years" left out of that statement.

Most likely. If they're so proud of their savings plan, surely the union should be telling us more about it?

Are their members now not seriously questioning the approach their union reps are taking? If this is a political game it's ultimately not the union heads who will lose anything other than their ego. Not sure what they're even hoping for anymore (I like to think they've given up on Mr Cheque Book showing up).

bk

L1011 wrote: »

There's an "over X years" left out of that statement.

Actually, they are looking at 9+ million from just this strike and counting, on top of the 6 million last year and the projected 7 million for this year, not including the strike. Then yes, you would be looking at about 18 million in savings for this year alone, plus about 7 to 8 * million worth of ongoing savings for future years.

* Remember you also have to fix the loses they made in previous years too.

Voipjunkie

You can't see what the labour court can do because you can't see what is happening, the unions are taking it out of their own hands, and handing it to the labour court to present the proposals rather than the union saying this is what we negotiated.

It removes flak from the union negotiators and leaves it up to the members to decide to accept or not, and the union can say we didn't agree to this but the members accepted or rejected it.

They may also hope that the labour court can up the offer on pay a little and management will accept it because it is coming from the labour court.

It also gives management a little ass covering as they didn't concede they just accepted what the labour court proposed.

Voipjunkie

bk wrote: »

L1011 wrote: »

There's an "over X years" left out of that statement.

Actually, they are looking at 9+ million from just this strike and counting, on top of the 6 million last year and the projected 7 million for this year, not including the strike. Then yes, you would be looking at about 18 million in savings for this year alone, plus about 7 to 8 * million worth of ongoing savings for future years.

* Remember you also have to fix the loses they made in previous years too.

bk wrote: »

L1011 wrote: »

There's an "over X years" left out of that statement.

Actually, they are looking at 9+ million from just this strike and counting, on top of the 6 million last year and the projected 7 million for this year, not including the strike. Then yes, you would be looking at about 18 million in savings for this year alone, plus about 7 to 8 * million worth of ongoing savings for future years.

* Remember you also have to fix the loses they made in previous years too.

The 500,000 a day is bull, it is lost income and fines from the NTA, it doesn't take account of the money they have saved on wages, fuel, maintenance etc

n97 mini

Voipjunkie wrote: »

The 500,000 a day is bull, it is lost income and fines from the NTA, it doesn't take account of the money they have saved on wages, fuel, maintenance etc

How do you know? The 50,000 a day included everything.

There are 700 staff still at work.

quadrifoglio verde

Voipjunkie wrote: »

The 500,000 a day is bull, it is lost income and fines from the NTA, it doesn't take account of the money they have saved on wages, fuel, maintenance etc

The non striking staff members will still need to be paid. There's around 1000 of them. Add in services that they've sub-contracted out like maintenance and it won't be long before it all adds up to 500k a day

bk

Voipjunkie wrote: »

The 500,000 a day is bull, it is lost income and fines from the NTA, it doesn't take account of the money they have saved on wages, fuel, maintenance etc

Lost revenue + NTA fines + wages for the 1/3rd of staff not on strike + payments to sub contractors + various other bills (Electricity, security, etc.).

I don't know if the 500k a day also takes into account not paying the other 2/3rds of wages or not, but either way I think we can all logically assume that BE's loses this year are going to be substantially more then last year.