Anyone else got problems re Bank balance after using Visa Debit card?

vicwatson

Used it in a petrol station, it was an auto station and you had to choose which upper limit you wanted.

I chose €60.00, though only to purchase just over €40.00 (circa €41.00 was the actual amount) and €60.00 was debited from my available funds and put into pending transactions (Permanent TSB), for starters how do Maxol have legal right to take more/hold more than what I actually I agreed to purchase for without notifying me at the pump?

Anyhow, €60.00 is taken from my available funds and put on hold, therefore I have NO USE of the additional funds (€19.00) until Maxol decide to put through to PTSB the actual receipt.

Moreover, Maxol went and put through the actual charge to my account about 3 working days later and it was debited from my available funds also. At this point my account has been debited €60.00 (pending amount) PLUS €41.00 (actual amount)

On speaking with ptsb they advise that the pending amount (€60.00) will be returned to my account within 7 working days :eek:, and basically in the meantime tough sh*te.

On the pump you can authorise 20,40,60,80,100 euro, so as no one is made aware by Maxol and you decided just to hit €100.00 and then just got a fiver worth of fuel then your available funds on your current account will be debited €100.00 to which you cannot access for 7 working days, even though you might just have purchased €5.00 worth of fuel.

Anyone one else have such a difficulty and can anyone explain why the hell they can take what they like from my account when I've only authorised an amount of €41.00 ?


TIA

OU812

You authorised €60, they put a hold on €60.

You purchased €41, you'll get a €19 chargeback.

It's pretty standard the world over.

ppppurrrrrrr

vicwatson wrote: »

I chose €60.00
TIA

/thread

vicwatson

OU812 wrote: »

You authorised €60, they put a hold on €60.

You purchased €41, you'll get a €19 chargeback.

It's pretty standard the world over.

WRONG

I authorised UP TO €60.00 - I didn't authorise €60.00

My first sentence stated that clearly

Why does it take 7 working days, yet the correct amount was debited within 3 days?

OU812

I don't think you understand how it works VicWatson. The amount you authorised is the amount you chose, the difference between your transaction and your authorisation is the chargeback.

vicwatson

OU812 wrote: »

I don't think you understand how it works VicWatson. The amount you authorised is the amount you chose, the difference between your transaction and your authorisation is the chargeback.

I don't think you read my post.

It states clearly on the maxol pump choose the petrol LIMIT you require. Simple, the LIMIT of what fuel you want to purchase not the amount of fuel you wish to buy.

The merchant has changed this method as it used to be a case that you put the card in, took it out, pumped and what ever you pumped was on the receipt that was produced - and that amount was put in pending transactions - just as if I paid for my shopping in Tesco for example.

Now they are stopping whatever UPPER LIMIT IN FULL that you hit at the pump and not necessarily what you actually purchase. I've been told that VISA rules have changed and this is a requirement of VISA that as it's unmanned fuel dispenser it must operate in this manner. I was also told that VISA have given banks that aren't cooperating until May 1st to toe the line. I'll see if I can find something online about it and post it here.

OU812

vicwatson wrote: »

Now they are stopping whatever UPPER LIMIT IN FULL that you hit at the pump and not necessarily what you actually purchase. I've been told that VISA rules have changed and this is a requirement of VISA that as it's unmanned fuel dispenser it must operate in this manner. I was also told that VISA have given banks that aren't cooperating until May 1st to toe the line. I'll see if I can find something online about it and post it here.

That's the way it works all over the world with the exception of Ireland (& possibly the UK). I've driven in a lot of countries & have only ever come across that method. It's common sense to put a hard stop at a figure. If you're unsure how much you'll take, then the onus is on you to select less & take less or else go into the shop to pay.

vicwatson

OU812 wrote: »

That's the way it works all over the world with the exception of Ireland (& possibly the UK). I've driven in a lot of countries & have only ever come across that method. It's common sense to put a hard stop at a figure. If you're unsure how much you'll take, then the onus is on you to select less & take less or else go into the shop to pay.

No, you aren't reading my post - it's an unmanned petrol station

Ive no problem hitting €20.00 and taking €10.00 or even hitting €100.00 and taking €10.00 but my bank should not take 7 days to reconcile my account, I have a problem whereby my available funds are reduced and then the correct amount is taken again from my account and the original funds take 7 days to be relodged back to my account - all without knowledge this is was ever going to happen in the first place.

And there is the legal issue also, and the consumer issue.

vicwatson

EverythingGood, maki, Mrs OBumble, ppppurrrrrrr, rainbowtrout, Scraggs, Srameen

All thanked OU812's incorrect reply and only one gave a reply themselves. Interesting

Fighting Tao

The other posts are correct. Obviously the sign was referring to the maximum amount of fuel you agreed to purchase. You set that limit to €60. Therefore a hold is out on your account for that amount to ensure that you don't leg it. Since you took €41 the hold will be lifted whenever maxol state that they no longer need the gold on the funds or when a certain time limit passes (you'd need to ask your bank about that time limit).

There is no legal issue as it would be covered in your agreement to use the card. There is probably no consumer issue either as it would be most litkey in the terms and conditions of your card.

TheChizler

They are reading your post. They authorise the full €60 as they need to check that amount is in your account before you start filling. They have no way of knowing how much you'll actually need before you pump. This is to prevent driveoffs, accidental or otherwise.

The delay is down to how long it takes the garage to putting the actual payment through with their payment processor. They put the €41 through and this is what is actually debited. Sometimes this is put through as an entirely new transaction unfortunately. The hold on the remaining €19 (or full €60) expires some time later.

Your genuine grievance is how long it's taking the garage to complete process. It might be worth calling them to enquire on the status. The bank can't do anything bar tell you how long the authorisation is valid for.

This is one of the risks you take when using automatic machines where you have to prepay.

Terms & Conditions

Edit: It seems there are some issues with Permanent TSB holding onto authorisations longer than they should, so it's probably worth leaving feedback with them.

The Drunken Clam

It's part of a much wider problem.

I have a Banking App on my tablet and I check the balance often. Sometimes a Visa Debit transaction will appear, then disappear after a few days, then reappear again after another few days.

So, unless you remember the money you "spent" and realise it's still in the ether, the balance you see, may or may include it.

The system is obviously designed to cause as many missed payments as possible so that even more bank charges can be applied.

Won't a cashless society be great Ted?

OU812

vicwatson wrote: »

No, you aren't reading my post - it's an unmanned petrol station

I assure you I am.

vicwatson wrote: »

I've no problem hitting €20.00 and taking €10.00 or even hitting €100.00 and taking €10.00 but my bank should not take 7 days to reconcile my account, I have a problem whereby my available funds are reduced and then the correct amount is taken again from my account and the original funds take 7 days to be relodged back to my account

I agree with you that it shouldn't take 7 days, but that's how the banks work here. If you look at some of the newer fin tech companies, the transactions are immediate.

vicwatson wrote: »

all without knowledge this is was ever going to happen in the first place.

That's on you. You need to find out that information yourself, but now you know for the future.

vicwatson wrote: »

And there is the legal issue also, and the consumer issue.

There is no legal or consumer issue, absolutely none, nada, zip.

Everything is covered in the T&Cs of your card. Perhaps use a credit card in future & then pay it off immediately from your account - e.g. Hold placed for €60. Actual transaction is €40. Pay €40 to CC, remaining hold is charged back after.

ED E

Lets look at a little example:

Dave has €4 in his account and no overdraft.
Dave goes to the pump and sets a limit of €100
Dave fills his car with €90 of fuel
The pump tries to charge Dave, it fails
Dave drives off with fuel (he cant pump it back in), garage loses out

See why they need to take the funds before pumping?

The garage should submit the transactions a minute or two apart, your bank is just typically Irish. Get a N26 account and it'd likely reconcile within the hour.

Bob24

OU812 wrote: »

I agree with you that it shouldn't take 7 days, but that's how the banks work here. If you look at some of the newer fin tech companies, the transactions are immediate.

I am not sure which specific company you are referring to, but for reference with N26 even though the transactions are displayed immediately it doesn't mean they are cleared immediately or faster than with Irish banks.

My experience (confirmed by their customer service) is that if a merchant requests an autorisation of 10 euros on an N26 card, it will instantly show as a debit of 10 euros on your online banking (and reduce your actual balance by 10 euros). And within 10 working days (i.e. not faster than Irish banks), if the merchant hasn't actually done anything about that authorisation request, the hold will be released which will translate into a credit transaction of 10 euros on your online banking. So while no money is ever actually taken by the merchant and nothing appears on your statement (which only shows cleared transaction), the actual balance available on your account is indeed reduced by 10 euro for up to 10 working days (which is pretty similar to the scenario the OP encountered except Irish banks display the hold as a pending transaction on their website which disappears after one time, while N26 displays is as a regular debit transaction with a corresponding credit transaction a few days later).

nsa0bupkd3948x

Bob24 wrote: »

I am not sure which specific company you are referring to, but for reference with N26 even though the transactions are displayed immediately it doesn't mean they are cleared immediately or faster than with Irish banks.

My experience (confirmed by their customer service) is that if a merchant requests an autorisation of 10 euros on an N26 card, it will instantly show as a debit of 10 euros on your online banking (and reduce your actual balance by 10 euros). And within 10 working days (i.e. not faster than Irish banks), if the merchant hasn't actually done anything about that authorisation request, the hold will be released which will translate into a credit transaction of 10 euros on your online banking.

One thing I've noticed with N26 and I'm not sure if it is related. If I add my card to a website for example PayPal and they authorise €1 on the card to verify its a legit card, with AIB/BOI it takes a few working days to sort itself out. With N26 the refund transaction occurs normally within minutes/couple of hours.

Bob24

Vivaan Sparse Pea wrote: »

One thing I've noticed with N26 and I'm not sure if it is related. If I add my card to a website for example PayPal and they authorise €1 on the card to verify its a legit card, with AIB/BOI it takes a few working days to sort itself out. With N26 the refund transaction occurs normally within minutes/couple of hours.

Yes I have experienced what you are describing in some cases, as well as longer delays of about 10 working days in other cases (the longer ones are explained by N26 here).

I am only guessing but I think the settlement time depends both on the transaction type (autorisation request as for the OP, or actual charge followed by a refund which is likely what you are experiencing), and also on how long the merchant takes to either release the autorisation hold or process the refund.

markpb

vicwatson wrote:

I was also told that VISA have given banks that aren't cooperating until May 1st to toe the line. I'll see if I can find something online about it and post it here.

You're right, Visa accept that there's a problem with exactly the scenario you're describing. What happens today is that authorizations are usually online (so the money is held on your account immediately) but refunds are offline, i.e. the issuer only finds out when the funds are refunded in the settlement process which can be a few days later.

The new rules will force acquirers to support online refunds and force unattended fuel pumps to use them for the return of unused funds.

ED E wrote:

Lets look at a little example:
...
See why they need to take the funds before pumping?

So why don't forecourts require cash paying customers to pre-pay?