Landlord won't let me end tenancy?

KateHL

I began renting my flat in November 2015 and signed a new 12 month lease in August 2016. In February 2017 I gave my landlord 42 days notice of my intention to terminate my lease of the flat as I am moving away from the area. The landlord responded to me two weeks later saying that he did not accept my notice as I had signed a 12 month lease in August 2016. I was under the impression that as I had been renting the flat for more than six months I had acquired a Part 4 tenancy and accordingly that the mechanism for ending my tenancy was giving my landlord the requisite amount of notice under the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 i.e. 42 days' notice in my case.

Am I completely mistaken in my belief that I have a Part 4 tenancy?

Thanks in advance

runawaybishop

KateHL wrote: »

I began renting my flat in November 2015 and signed a new 12 month lease in August 2016. In February 2017 I gave my landlord 42 days notice of my intention to terminate my lease of the flat as I am moving away from the area. The landlord responded to me two weeks later saying that he did not accept my notice as I had signed a 12 month lease in August 2016. I was under the impression that as I had been renting the flat for more than six months I had acquired a Part 4 tenancy and accordingly that the mechanism for ending my tenancy was giving my landlord the requisite amount of notice under the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 i.e. 42 days' notice in my case.

Am I completely mistaken in my belief that I have a Part 4 tenancy?

Thanks in advance

You have part 4 but you also signed a lease.

Just get the remainer of the lease reassigned.

4ensic15

You have a part 4 tenancy. You also have a lease. The two can run together. Part 4 is about protecting you from the landlord terminating your tenancy, not about allowing you to break your agreement. You should assign your lease.

dudara

You have a Part IV tenancy but the 12 month lease also applies.

Speak to the landlord about reassigning the lease. In other words you will find a good replacement for you who will take over from you & not leave the landlord out of pocket

KateHL

Thanks for the response. So does a Part 4 tenancy not 'trump' a fixed term lease, so to speak? And by reassign do you mean sublet? Apologies for all the questions!

4ensic15

<deleted quote snipped >

If the op seeks to assign, the o/p is entitled to the deposit back. If the assignee is accepted, the new tenant pays the deposit back to the o/p. If the assignee is not accepted the tenancy ends and the o/p is entitled to the deposit.

KateHL

Is there a specific process for assigning a lease?

4ensic15

KateHL wrote: »

Thanks for the response. So does a Part 4 tenancy not 'trump' a fixed term lease, so to speak? And by reassign do you mean sublet? Apologies for all the questions!

No, it is the other way around. Part 4 is about security of tenure. You cannot have worse rights than Part 4 but you can have better. The landlord cannot use the grounds for terminating a Part 4 to avoid a fixed term lease. neither can you use part 4 to avoid your lease. Assign means to find another person to take over your lease. The procedure is you write to the landlord and say "I want X person to take over my lease from z date."

KateHL

Thanks for your help.

Boater123

4ensic15 wrote: »

... The procedure is you write to the landlord and say "I want X person to take over my lease from z date."

I thought the procedure was to write to the LL and ask permission to reassign the lease, and not to a specific person. If they say yes, it's up to the tenant to locate someone suitable that passes the LL checks.

Bit pointless getting a new tenant before asking and then find out they won't agree to reassignment.

If the LL refuses permission to reassign the lease, then the tenant can legally break the lease.

To reassign properly, a deed of re assignment is used to "transfer" the lease in to the new tenants name. Though most people just use a new lease with a new fixed term.

4ensic15

Boater123 wrote: »

I thought the procedure was to write to the LL and ask permission to reassign the lease, and not to a specific person. If they say yes, it's up to the tenant to locate someone suitable that passes the LL checks.

Bit pointless getting a new tenant before asking and then find out they won't agree to reassignment.

If the LL refuses permission to reassign the lease, then the tenant can legally break the lease.

To reassign properly, a deed of re assignment is used to "transfer" the lease in to the new tenants name. Though most people just use a new lease with a new fixed term.

How can there be a request to assign a lease unless it is to a specific person? If the landlord says "you can assign the lease to a person i approve of", that is not permission to assign. The tenant does not care if the person is acceptable to the LL. It may be better that the person is not.

Boater123

4ensic15 wrote: »

How can there be a request to assign* a lease unless it is to a specific person? If the landlord says "you can assign* the lease to a person i approve of", that is not permission to assign*. The tenant does not care if the person is acceptable to the LL. It may be better that the person is not.

Tenant:" Dear Landlord,
May I have permission to reassign (*not assign sic) the remainder of the term of my lease.
I have gone to considerable time and expense advertising, holding viewings, having people traipse through my dwelling at ungodly hours and for some reason unbeknownst to me have ended up with three prospective tenants for your consideration, who are mad enough to put up with this reassignment nonsense."

Landlord: "For some reason known only to me (probably to do with new tenant, higher rent or something), I am not in favour of reassignment . Therefore you are a silly little TT for not asking me first and putting yourself through this time wasting exercise.
For, by me refusing permission to reassign, you could have just legally broke the fixed term lease and gave the appropriate notice to leave and there is nothing I could have done."

If the LL, for some reason decides to give permission to reassign (*not assign sic) the shorter remainder of the lease, instead of a new tenant on potentially higher rent and definitely a longer term lease, then the tenant goes through the process of reassignment and puts forward potential tenants for the LL to consider.

That's how

4ensic15

Boater123 wrote: »

Tenant:" Dear Landlord,
May I have permission to reassign (*not assign sic) the remainder of the term of my lease.
I have gone to considerable time and expense advertising, holding viewings, having people traipse through my dwelling at ungodly hours and for some reason unbeknownst to me have ended up with three prospective tenants for your consideration, who are mad enough to put up with this reassignment nonsense."

Landlord: "For some reason known only to me (probably to do with new tenant, higher rent or something), I am not in favour of reassignment . Therefore you are a silly little TT for not asking me first and putting yourself through this time wasting exercise.
For, by me refusing permission to reassign, you could have just legally broke the fixed term lease and gave the appropriate notice to leave and there is nothing I could have done."

If the LL, for some reason decides to give permission to reassign (*not assign sic) the shorter remainder of the lease, instead of a new tenant on potentially higher rent and definitely a longer term lease, then the tenant goes through the process of reassignment and puts forward potential tenants for the LL to consider.

That's how

First of all, reassign is not correct. It is an assignment. Secondly, for an assignment to take place there must be an assignee. The letter must be "permission is proposed to assign the lease to x (proposed assignee). Enclosed are X's references and X is available to meet at >>>.
If I do not receive a positive reply within 7 days I will consider myself entitled to terminate the tenancy as per Section 186 RTA."

Boater123

4ensic15 wrote: »

First of all, reassign is not correct. It is an assignment. Secondly, for an assignment to take place there must be an assignee. The letter must be "permission is proposed to assign the lease to x (proposed assignee). Enclosed are X's references and X is available to meet at >>>.
If I do not receive a positive reply within 7 days I will consider myself entitled to terminate the tenancy as per Section 186 RTA."

We are talking about about asking for permission to reassign the remainder of the lease.

A tenant does not need someone lined up to ask for permission, be denied permission, or be given permission.

Only if the LL gives permission to reassign the remainder of the lease does a tenant need to get someone suitable to the LL.

If the LL refuses, what you suggest is the process, is completely unnecessary.

Why do you advise people to waste their time and money when it may not be necessary?

4ensic15

Boater123 wrote: »

We are talking about about asking for permission to reassign the remainder of the lease.

A tenant does not need someone lined up to ask for permission, be denied permission, or be given permission.

Only if the LL gives permission to reassign the remainder of the lease does a tenant need to get someone suitable to the LL.

If the LL refuses, what you suggest is the process, is completely unnecessary.

Why do you advise people to waste their time and money when it may not be necessary?

The Act does not mention reassign. It only refers to assignment. The tenant did not take an assignment in the first place.
What I am suggesting is the method which ensures compliance with the Act.
I know a tenant who wrote to his landlord asking for permission to assign his tenancy. the landlord replied saying that as he hadn't nominated a potential assignee, the question of permission couldn't arise. The tenant left and the landlord took the re-letting fee from his deposit. The tenant got nowhere with the RTB subsequently.

Boater123

4ensic15 wrote: »

The Act does not mention reassign. It only refers to assignment. The tenant did not take an assignment in the first place.
What I am suggesting is the method which ensures compliance with the Act.
I know a tenant who wrote to his landlord asking for permission to assign his tenancy. the landlord replied saying that as he hadn't nominated a potential assignee, the question of permission couldn't arise. The tenant left and the landlord took the re-letting fee from his deposit. The tenant got nowhere with the RTB subsequently.

So your "friend" requested permission to reassign, and the LL did not refuse permission.

The LL instead asked for more info before the LL would go through with it reserving their right to vet any potential new tenant. The LL therefore agreed to reassignment in principal ,without any new tenant. And the RTB agreed when your friend brought it to dispute.

Your point about needing details of a potential tenant for consideration at the time of asking for permission, is moot.

Thanks for the anecdote story.

4ensic15

Boater123 wrote: »

So your "friend" requested permission to reassign, and the LL did not refuse permission.

The LL instead asked for more info before the LL would go through with it reserving their right to vet any potential new tenant. The LL therefore agreed to reassignment in principal ,without any new tenant. And the RTB agreed when your friend brought it to dispute.

Your point about needing details of a potential tenant for consideration at the time of asking for permission, is moot.

Thanks for the anecdote story.

The landlord did not agree to anything.

Boater123

4ensic15 wrote: »

The landlord did not agree to anything.

By not refusing.

4ensic15

Boater123 wrote: »

By not refusing.

There was nothing to agree to, nor anything to refuse.

Boater123

4ensic15 wrote: »

I know a tenant who wrote to his landlord asking for permission to assign his tenancy.

4ensic15 wrote: »

There was nothing to agree to, nor anything to refuse.

Your words: the tenant asked for permission.

It was your "friend" that brought it to the RTB, you know roughly when it happened, maybe even the address of the rented property. How about backing it up with a link to the RTB determination?

4ensic15

Boater123 wrote: »

Your words: the tenant asked for permission.

He didn't have a proposed assignee so there was no request to consent to.

Boater123 wrote: »

It was your "friend" that brought it to the RTB, you know roughly when it happened, maybe even the address of the rented property. How about backing it up with a link to the RTB determination?

The claim was rejected by the RTB without a determination.

Boater123

4ensic15 wrote: »

The claim was rejected by the RTB without a determination.

Should have guessed.

Unfortunate though. If there had a determination that showed you weren't making it up as you go along, that would have shut me up.

athtrasna

Mod note

Posters are asked to remain civil when posting and to take personal disagreements to pm as they can make it off-putting to other posters who may wish to post.

4ensic15

Boater123 wrote: »

Should have guessed.

Unfortunate though. If there had a determination that showed you weren't making it up as you go along, that would have shut me up.

I'm not making anything up. Assigning of leases happens in the commercial world constantly. I know of one case where a tenant tried it, in the manner you suggested. When the RTB reject a complaint they don't issue a determination order if the complaint should never have been made to them in the first place.

davo10

4ensic15 wrote: »

I'm not making anything up. Assigning of leases happens in the commercial world constantly. I know of one case where a tenant tried it, in the manner you suggested. When the RTB reject a complaint they don't issue a determination order if the complaint should never have been made to them in the first place.

Why bring it up if it was a commercial case?

4ensic15

davo10 wrote: »

Why bring it up if it was a commercial case?

It was residential. What is being discussed is the mechanics of procuring an assignment of a residential lease. Assignments of commercial leases happen frequently, there are very few assignments of residential leases.

Boater123

4ensic15 wrote: »

I'm not making anything up. Assigning of leases happens in the commercial world constantly. I know of one case where a tenant tried it, in the manner you suggested. When the RTB reject a complaint they don't issue a determination order if the complaint should never have been made to them in the first place.

At the very best this was a story told to you and you are relaying it second hand, by a very biased and disgruntled tenant. Giving you leeway if things didn't ring true.

But now the story is the RTB rejected it because it wasn't within their remit. Not because of the reason you gave earlier.

I cannot comment further as this is most civility I can muster after reading this latest development.

athtrasna

Boater123 wrote: »

At the very best this was a story told to you and you are relaying it second hand, by a very biased and disgruntled tenant. Giving you leeway if things didn't ring true.

But now the story is the RTB rejected it because it wasn't within their remit. Not because of the reason you gave earlier.

I cannot comment further as this is most civility I can muster after reading this latest development.

Please take it to pm you guys.

Mod

Peregrinus

It's not possible to assign a lease unless you have someone to assign it to.

If you don't have an assignee in mind, you have no assignment to propose to the landlord, and the landlord cannot consent.

It makes sense to tell the landlord beforehand that you want to leave and you'll be looking for an assignee. If he indicates at that point that he won't agree to any assignment, regardless of who you find (he'd be very stupid to do that, but if he does) then, obviously, don't bother looking for an assignee. Terminate your lease and take the inevitable dispute to the RTB.

In the real world, the landlord will say "I await details of your proposes assignee" and may add something along the lines of "don't bother proposing anyone less financially sound than yourself". Then you go off and find your assigneee and carry on from there.

ec18

Question on re assigning a lease what happens if the landlord says that they want to find the new tenant and refuses to allow reassignment?

But also states that they will be keeping the deposit if they don't find someone.

Michael D Not Higgins

ec18 wrote: »

Question on re assigning a lease what happens if the landlord says that they want to find the new tenant and refuses to allow reassignment?

But also states that they will be keeping the deposit if they don't find someone.

RTB dispute. The landlord finding the replacement is not an assignment. They have refused an assignment and must allow the tenancy to be ended without penalty subject to correct notice.