Can a tenant withhold rent for repairs

allibastor

Quick one, I had previously posted about tenat not paying rent,

I was told by the EA that they have now said that as machine repiars were not done, that is why they withheld the rent.

Can someone withold the rent for repairs not be done.

Before anyone asks, we have tried a number of times to perform these, but tenant is not playing ball

Gatling

No ,

Simple put there in breach of lease

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Ms Doubtfire1

Gatling is right.They can't.They have other options but withholding rent is not one of them. If it's repairs you need to fix tenant must give you access after notification ( you have to give tenant notification). The tenant not giving access (repeatedly) is a breach of tenants obligation and you can put them on notice for that as well.

You need rid of these tenants asap OP.

allibastor

Ronald Bewildered Frame wrote: »

You need rid of these tenants asap OP.

I am trying, believe me!!!

It was just something which was said to me, tenants withholding rent to perform repairs themselves, but its over three months now !

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Ms Doubtfire1

and as a LL you can also open a dispute with the RTB. Just get that done and take further steps.

godtabh

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

Gatling is right.They can't.They have other options but withholding rent is not one of them. If it's repairs you need to fix tenant must give you access after notification ( you have to give tenant notification). The tenant not giving access (repeatedly) is a breach of tenants obligation and you can put them on notice for that as well.

On this note a family member had an incidence where a tenant never informed them of an issue. The issue was on going for about 12 months. During inspections tenants withheld access to this room (it was their bedroom and the rest of the house was fine so they let it go).

There was a dispute about notice.

The dispute escalated.

The tenants left early and when an inspection was made there was €1000s worth of damage done due to a leak. PRB ruled that if the teants had of given access straight away any liability would have been with the landlord. They didnt and got caught for this and breaking the lease.

Boater123

godtabh wrote: »

The tenants left early and when an inspection was made there was €1000s worth of damage done due to a leak. PRB ruled that if the teants had of given access straight away any liability would have been with the landlord. They didnt and got caught for this and breaking the lease.

And out of curiosity, how much money has the tenant actually handed over in compensation to the LL to date?

pilly

Boater123 wrote: »

And out of curiosity, how much money has the tenant actually handed over in compensation to the LL to date?

You can bet it's zero.

allibastor

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I did, they said No also, so I was just curios as to what others thought.

I find sometimes that what the actual law says and what people think are very different, but from the point of seeing a reason why they are now three months behind is driving me nuts.
Just waiting on a RTB hearing date now!

Ms Doubtfire1

It probably is. But I think at some point it's just more important to get a bad tenant out of the house and initiate the proper proceedings. I think LL need to initiate proceedings in regards to eviction as soon as a tenant has failed to pay rent and the deadline has passed. Even if there is a repayment agreement in place - just have the notice ready, you can always cancel it. I'm a tenant myself and I have had numerous fights and disputes with my landlord but not paying rent wouldn't even come up in my mind as I feel that is very very low and you may even put your landlord on the street because he might need your rent to pay off a mortgage. in my opinion there's nothing more despicable than not paying rent to a private Landlord.

Graham

Have you/your solicitor/EA started the process of terminating the tenancy?

Del2005

allibastor wrote: »

I find sometimes that what the actual law says and what people think are very different

It doesn't matter what people think the law says though, what matters is that you operate to the law and let them operate to Facebook.

Problem is that the LL will still end up out of pocket regardless of who breaks the law.

Ms Doubtfire1

Del2005 wrote: »

allibastor wrote: »

I find sometimes that what the actual law says and what people think are very different

It doesn't matter what people think the law says though, what matters is that you operate to the law and let them operate to Facebook.

Problem is that the LL will still end up out of pocket regardless of who breaks the law.

:D:D
Autocorrect you ****. lol

pilly

Have RTB given you any reasonable time frame for a hearing?

allibastor

pilly wrote: »

Have RTB given you any reasonable time frame for a hearing?

Last letter I got from them was three weeks ago, advising they are reviewing the case and will be in touch in the next 4 weeks.

Only sitting on my hands now at this stage,.

pilly

allibastor wrote: »

Last letter I got from them was three weeks ago, advising they are reviewing the case and will be in touch in the next 4 weeks.

Only sitting on my hands now at this stage,.

So frustrating. I'm sure you feel like just wrecking the place, I know I would. I think it's disgraceful what tenants get away with in this country.

Ms Doubtfire1

All i can advise now is relax.Don't think about it - there is nothing more you can do at this point in time and stressing about it won't help you and won't bother the tenant.Keep on the case of the board and get them to move.. Have you insurance for the property and tenant damage?

emeldc

allibastor wrote: »

Last letter I got from them was three weeks ago, advising they are reviewing the case and will be in touch in the next 4 weeks.

Only sitting on my hands now at this stage,.

A brother in law of mine went through an RTB process a few years ago. What I found most infuriating was almost every letter that was sent to the tenants finished with 'you have 28 days to reply'. That's another 28 days without rent. Is it any wonder it took nearly 2 years. Don't know if it's the same now. I hope not.

allibastor

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

All i can advise now is relax.Don't think about it - there is nothing more you can do at this point in time and stressing about it won't help you and won't bother the tenant.Keep on the case of the board and get them to move.. Have you insurance for the property and tenant damage?

Hey, no not stressing at this point. I was only asking the question about the repairs and withholding rent in case it came up. I know the legal point on it, but when has that ever gotten in the way.

Hopefully it gets resolved in the next few weeks as it is driving me round the bend at this point!

And yes, I do feel like going in and wrecking the place at times, but I think that will get me anywhere.

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allibastor

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Managed as in its in a housing estate. But not officially I think.

No one has some looking for money anyway in the few years

Bubbaclaus

Is the situation any different if the repairs that are required mean the house isn't up to the legally required standard? Our heating broke down over Winter and it took the landlord a full 7 weeks to get around to fixing it. It essentially made the house unliveable for the period.

We considered withholding rent until it got sorted but didn't bother in the end. Felt it would have been justified in such a situation however.

Samuel T. Cogley

While they can't withhold rent, they can pay for the repair and then claim it back (through the RTB if necessary). One wonders what the RTB might say about this process being short circuited, but I doubt a windfall in either direction.

Fol20

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

While they can't withhold rent, they can pay for the repair and then claim it back (through the RTB if necessary). One wonders what the RTB might say about this process being short circuited, but I doubt a windfall in either direction.

Where do you see that. I would never allow some contractor I don't know do work on my property. I don't know who they are and what their workmanship is like.

pilly

Fol20 wrote:

Where do you see that. I would never allow some contractor I don't know do work on my property. I don't know who they are and what their workmanship is like.

Yeah but would you leave heating not working for 7 weeks?

Samuel T. Cogley

Fol20 wrote: »

Where do you see that. I would never allow some contractor I don't know do work on my property. I don't know who they are and what their workmanship is like.

Section 12(g) RTA 2004. Sorry can't seem to link or copy paste on the computers at work.

Michael D Not Higgins

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Section 12(g) RTA 2004. Sorry can't seem to link or copy paste on the computers at work.

The argument against that would be the first condition:

"the landlord has refused or failed to carry out the repairs at the time the tenant requests him or her to do so"

The OP has attempted repairs but the tenant will not allow access to do it.

Samuel T. Cogley

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

The argument against that would be the first condition:

"the landlord has refused or failed to carry out the repairs at the time the tenant requests him or her to do so"

The OP has attempted repairs but the tenant will not allow access to do it.

I wasn't really suggesting anything specific just that the provision exists. It should also be noted that this provision does not allow rent to be withheld. Even the correct quantum, which I get the impression has not happened here, the whole rent as been withheld. It merely allows where 12(b) required repairs are not carried out with no fault on the side of the tenant, the tenant should be reimbursed under 12(g).