Flat pedales on road bike.

topcat77

I'd been riding my bikes using clipless pedals for years and then last year i started with the XC mountain bike, after a few falls on the bike due to being cliped in i turned to flats. I now use flats on all my bike apart from the race bike (called race bike cause i race on it). I found my pedal efficiency and overall enjoyment has improved.

So are we being told that clipless pedals are the be all and end all for road cycling incorrectly?

smacl

A GCN video posted here recently suggests the difference is possibly overstated. I don't race, nor am I a particularly strong cyclist, so can't say much about efficacy beyond that. Personally, I use SPDs with a platform on my cross bike which is my usual go to bike for most spins, as I find being lightly clipped in on long spins more comfortable and more stable on the road. Off road, I'm happier in flats largely down to pretty poor technical skills.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNedIJBZpgM

Wishbone Ash

topcat77 wrote: »

... last year i started with the XC mountain bike, after a few falls on the bike due to being cliped in i turned to flats....

I'd consider regular falls on an MTB while clipped in to be fairly normal (for me anyway) especially on difficult terrain.

If using flat pedals on a road bike, you'd be losing some efficiency of hard soled cycling shoes also.

Macy0161

topcat77 wrote: »

So are we being told that clipless pedals are the be all and end all for road cycling incorrectly?

Not an expert, but both in previous coached turbo sessions, and now following TrainerRoad, they both do drills emphasizing different parts of the pedal stroke that on pure flats you'd miss out on somewhat.

How important a factor that really is is above my knowledge though - I know on the TrainerRoad podcast they often refer to such form drills as "the cream" in their sessions, so obviously not the most important thing for them. They're always down as optional, and I suspect while valuable in terms of form they're partly to add interest to low intensity workouts.

Fian

Purely anecdotal but I have clipless on some bikes and clipped on others. I do notice significant extra fatigue form not being clipped in.

I am not really interested in speed when out on the bike, just in going for a decent spin, getting over whatever hills i need to get over and on enjoying my ride. I am not worrying about speed or trying to beat my previous personal best for the ride. So it is not that I am using the upstroke when clipped in so much as that I am not wasting any energy on keeping my foot attached/pressed to the pedal as it goes through the upstroke. Possibly some psychological element in a climb as well, where I do pull on the upstroke a little to take some pressure.

Clipless mean I am saving both mental and physical energy in not having to make sure my foot is positioned over the pedal.

Weepsie

I had more serious accidents and falls using flat pedals and runners than I ever did with clipless. That said, the week I tried SPDs on my commuter saw me fall a lot more than normal

tomasrojo

For utility cycling, I've always found BMX-style pedals and rubber-soled footwear just fine:
https://theeverydaycyclist.wordpress.com/2010/09/09/review-wellgo-lu987-flat-pedals/

I've never tried clipless, but those pedals I do find a lot better than simple platforms.

OleRodrigo

Flat pedals with toe clips are a good option for regular riding. So are SPD touring pedals and shoes.

Clipless are good for extra performance and energy efficiency, not so good if you're getting off the bike regularly as the cleats wear down quite quickly.

I use SPD pedals for commuting with normal shoes and have no problems. Have also used toe clips on bike tours with no issues.

Weepsie

Look released a touring shoe last year with the cleat recessed. I use them all the time as i couldn't get to grips with SPDs.

smacl

Weepsie wrote: »

Look released a touring shoe last year with the cleat recessed. I use them all the time as i couldn't get to grips with SPDs.

SPD SLs maybe, any SPDs I've ever used don't protrude past the sole of the shoe? One of the main reasons I prefer them to road cleats is being able walk properly in them.

Weepsie

smacl wrote: »

SPD SLs maybe, any SPDs I've ever used don't protrude past the sole of the shoe? One of the main reasons I prefer them to road cleats is being able walk properly in them.

No it was definitely SPDs that I had issues with. I actually think it was more the pedal. Tension was very high and not obvious how to reduce it. Also I never realised the black and silver cleats were different. I'm definitely going to give them another go sometime

smacl

Weepsie wrote: »

No it was definitely SPDs that I had issues with. I actually think it was more the pedal. Tension was very high and not obvious how to reduce it. Also I never realised the black and silver cleats were different. I'm definitely going to give them another go sometime

I use the SH56 muti-directional cleats with loose tension and they are very easy to clip out of, which I find handy for the light off road stuff I do and in traffic. Downside is you do get the very occasional unintended unclip, but it is never something that has bothered me. I find having the platform helps with hill starts and any other situations where you want to take a stroke or two to get moving without needing to be properly clipped in. MTB pedals on anything that isn't a MTB breaks the rules though....

CramCycle

For short distance stuff, very little difference when I look at my times. Over a longer distance, the fatigue and average speed as well as how i feel the next day makes a difference, my commute is about 35 - 40km a day, looking at my time with a non clipped shoe, it would be about 10% slower and I definitely feel more tired.

nordicb

Can speak from my own experience only... Flats are great for rough and gnarly terrains on a mountain bike, downhills and technical stuff where speed on flat terrain or uphills is not the main concern. They are also very beneficial for bike handling skills. However, if doing XC, climbing, being clipped in is a lot more efficient to me.

The problem I see in the GCN video earlier is that they switch from flats to clipless and test them without adaptation. It takes a while to adapt to clipless to get most out of them, also takes time to get used to using flats again. Lactic acid is not an indicator as they get higher concentration of it due to recruiting different and more muscles, meaning the load is shared better; watts is also not so relevant as the power can be applied efficiently and also wasted big time - in other words, less watts don't mean one traveled less distance.

They don't mention that clipless offer more ground and width clearance when cornering or going through tight places on MTB. They also don't mention, that it takes a bit more energy to keep your foot on the flat when going over a rough terrain as there must be a constant pressure on them, while clipless is usually attach and forget, focus on the trail. They don't mention that if you take a full suss bike and watch the rear shock, it bounces less when pedaling clipless. Flats do not allow to engage different muscle groups when your legs get tired - it's a game over pretty much.

Unless I plan to do a lot of walking, would never put flats on a road bike, but, perhaps, an SPD system where cleats are recessed in the sole...

Just a thought.

Mercian Pro

I certainly find the SPD pedals and shoes better than flats for longer spins, especially in the hills. On the commuter, I have Shimano M324 pedals, SPD on one side and flat on the other. If I'm using normal shoes on the flat side, I do find that being able to move my feet very slightly back can give more power for a short burst of speed. The downside is sometimes having to search for the right side of the pedal and obviously not being able to pull up on the pedal when starting off.

mp31

My weekly commute is 22km each way, 3-4 days a week on a variety of road surfaces. I normally use SPD-SL pedals with Northwave road shoes.

A few weeks ago, I switched to DMR V12 flats and wore lightweight hiking shoes which had quite hard soles. On the downside the shoe/pedal interface was a bit tricky at times and every now and then I had to re-adjust my foot position on the pedal. On the plus side I could position my foot a lot further forward on the pedal and reduce the stress on my calves.

After a week of commuting, I switched back to my regular SPD-SL cleats/shoes and noticed immediately how much more I was using my calves to stabilise my ankles. On the plus side there was no need to worry about the foot slipping off the pedal.

I think the key to flat pedals is to buy a decent set of shoes with a really grippy sole e.g. Five Tens or similar. I plan to buy a pair soon (when I have some money) and see if that theory holds.

CramCycle

My new SPD SL shoes are Giro Empires and the cleat is more mid sole than any other three bolt system I have ever used. Maybe it is for similar reasons. Haven't figured it out yet.

magicbastarder

i have these on the bike i bought from outfox:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/shimano-m530-spd-trail-clipless-mtb-pedals/rp-prod67249

and mentioned to derek in humphries that they'd much less float than the other SPD pedals (without a cage) i have, and he commented 'of course, as the sole of your shoe is pressed against the cage so your foot can't pivot as freely'.

doh.

sin_26

I couldn`t imagine climbing out of saddle in long period of time without clipless pedals so as sprints with 130rpm+. Just couldn`t.
Aggressive XC on flats is less efficient as well. Of course you can but it is different world.
BTW. I`ve fall more times on flats and with toe clips than with clipless.

Spudgun

I'm pretty new to clipless pedals I've tried and failed (and have the bruised arse to prove it) with normal road shoes so I've bought duel sided mtb ones and am waiting for the shoes to arrive so I'm using trainers they seem to grip well , hopefully I'll be able to use the spd and not fall on my arse as much

Rokta

I have Shimano Saint flat pedals on my commuter bike and they are great. The key is as mp31 mentions not to use "runners" but MTB shoes. I have a pair of FiveTen Freeriders and the pedals stick to the shoe giving you a similar feeling then being clipped in but you can be assured not to fall over at a red light and yes, that happened too me while being clipped in..... more than once....

That being said, I do believe flat pedals do look a bit odd on a road bike. I would opt for MTB clipless pedals and shoes, especially if you have to walk in them for more than 5 meters.

tomasrojo

I use hiking footwear too. I find other rubber-soled shoes ok too though. I might try those Five Ten things some time.

Type 17

topcat77 wrote: »

I'd been riding my bikes using clipless pedals for years and then last year i started with the XC mountain bike, after a few falls on the bike due to being cliped in i turned to flats. I now use flats on all my bike apart from the race bike (called race bike cause i race on it). I found my pedal efficiency and overall enjoyment has improved.

So are we being told that clipless pedals are the be all and end all for road cycling incorrectly?

I find that toeclips and SPDs give a confidence when out of the saddle and/or on rough descents. As a teenager, when I rode a BMX (racing and freestyle) I sometimes lost a footing and smacked my shin on the pedal (argh, the pain!! :eek:), but when I moved to a mountain bike with toeclips (for utility cycling and some off-road), I found my 'foot-confidence' was greatly improved.

Having mostly done utility cycling on flat-bar bikes since then, I have always used toeclips (foot-security with the advantage of not having to change footwear for most trips). For longer rides on the toeclip bikes, I actually have a pair of Shimano MTB shoes, for the stiffer sole, but use them with the toeclips (blanking plates on sole, no cleats).

Recently I bought a road bike with SPDs and suitable shoes, and have had no issues in using them, whilst continuing to ride the toeclip bikes on other days. I really like the clip-in concept, but wouldn't add it to my utility bikes, as it would mean a footwear change. The only issue with the SPDs was that, for the first 200km or so, the brand-new pedals didn't settle with their rears at the bottom, due to their newness/stiff grease, but now that they have worn in a little, they are even easier to use.

Each to his own, but I wouldn't be without some form of foot-securing system on a bike, unless it was the most casual/occasional cycling, or it was a BMX.