Mar 2017 proposal: park & ride to be charged. Jun 2017 WCC vote no charge

Annasopra

cocker5 wrote: »

In all honesty €2... it's €2 per day let's keep it in perspective it's less than a coffee.

I used the luas park and ride everyday -5 days per week and it's double that.. that's before my petrol driving there (red cow) and luas fee...

€2 this year. Remember when college fees were €150. They are €3000 now.

loyatemu

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Or a radical suggestion. Another station and park and ride at Charlesland.

that's more aerial pie - there are at least 50 transport projects that would be considered higher priority. It wouldn't add any extra capacity to the system either.

Annasopra

loyatemu wrote: »

that's more aerial pie - there are at least 50 transport projects that would be considered higher priority. It wouldn't add any extra capacity to the system either.

With the growth in the town (and new estates along farrankelly road) it may have to happen in 15/20 years.

cocker5

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

€2 this year. Remember when college fees were €150. They are €3000 now.

It's not even comparible infairness...

The colllege fees is another discussion altogether and also incomparsion to other countries €3,000 is reasonable.

Park and ride for the luas and for other dart station - prices have remained the same for years.

Regardless of what people think these car parks need to maintained, ie lighting , resurfacing, lining out of spaces - all of which costs money - a lot of money, which the users of this part should contribute to IMO. I can't believe it was free for so long.

Honestly people it's €2.. for a whole day!

loyatemu

cocker5 wrote: »

It's not even comparible infairness...

The colllege fees is another discussion altogether and also incomparsion to other countries €3,000 is reasonable.

Park and ride for the luas and for other dart station - prices have remained the same for years.

Regardless of what people think these car parks need to maintained, ie lighting , resurfacing, lining out of spaces - all of which costs money - a lot of money, which the users of this part should contribute to IMO. I can't believe it was free for so long.

Honestly people it's €2.. for a whole day!

they're also having to pay for wardens to patrol the carpark now that it full every day and people are trying to park on the roadways etc. In the village the parking fees pay for the wardens, not so in the P&R (they're probably making some money from fines at the moment, but that'll only reduce and a lot of fines don't get paid anyway).

This could be the reason they're proposing fees at this time - possibly they've decided to hire an extra warden and this is how they're paying for it.

76544567

2011 wrote: »

I don't think that illegal parking should be addressed by introducing parking fees.

If you look what they did at all the stations in Dublin you can see how it will go.

Charge for parking saying you have no choice but to charge.

Mark the spaces and remove any grey area parking, so you have less spaces and so you can clamp the people who use those after the charges come in. You can say you did maintenance for that as another excuse for the charges.

Introduce a monthly ticket, where you pay but it doesnt guarantee you a space, because if you are a little bit late one day you wont get a space you paid for.

Wait a little while and double the charge, or more.

Before you know it everyone is paying about €1000 a year to park their car, so they can get to work to earn €2000 in order to pay that €1000 extra, and rail prices probably increased in the meantime too.

recedite

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Or a radical suggestion. Another station and park and ride at Charlesland.

Good idea, or even start it at Kilcoole and have it stop off at Charlesland. Certainly a lot more useful and functional than having two Luas stops in Sandyford Industrial Estate, and calling one of them Stillorgan!

loyatemu wrote: »

that's more aerial pie - there are at least 50 transport projects that would be considered higher priority. It wouldn't add any extra capacity to the system either.

Well there is that whole single track problem, but to increase capacity I'm sure there would be a way of running an extra train at rush hours, and having both trains running in close proximity.

As for "pie in the sky", well this discussion is not really about what will happen. We all know (whether we care to admit it or not) that parking charges will come in. But its still amusing to think about what should or could happen.
As John Lennon said "Maybe I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one..":)

Annasopra

cocker5 wrote: »

It's not even comparible infairness...

The colllege fees is another discussion altogether and also incomparsion to other countries €3,000 is reasonable.

Park and ride for the luas and for other dart station - prices have remained the same for years.

Regardless of what people think these car parks need to maintained, ie lighting , resurfacing, lining out of spaces - all of which costs money - a lot of money, which the users of this part should contribute to IMO. I can't believe it was free for so long.

Honestly people it's €2.. for a whole day!

It's an illustration that once there is a charge for something the charge can increase quite a lot over time. Yes it is perfectly comparable in that sense. €2 might seem miniscule to you. But it's not to many others when it adds up. Thats an extra €500 a year that not everyone can afford. It's €6.50 a day in Bray by the way.

76544567

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

It's an illustration that once there is a charge for something the charge can increase quite a lot over time. Yes it is perfectly comparable in that sense. €2 might seem miniscule to you. But it's not to many others when it adds up. Thats an extra €500 a year that not everyone can afford. It's €6.50 a day in Bray by the way.

Probably started at €2 in bray a few years ago too.

Boaty

Services cost money but 6.50 in Bray is extortion.
A lot of Greystones is within 1,5 km of the station, if secure bicycle storage was provided maybe people would cycle thus reducing the need for more spaces.
A dart extension to Kilcoole with a station at Charlesland would cost several million to service a small number of people in comparison to a new N11 park n ride with bus lane which would cost a similar amount.

cocker5

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

It's an illustration that once there is a charge for something the charge can increase quite a lot over time. Yes it is perfectly comparable in that sense. €2 might seem miniscule to you. But it's not to many others when it adds up. Thats an extra €500 a year that not everyone can afford. It's €6.50 a day in Bray by the way.

I never said it was minuscule to me as per my previous post I pay double that .. each day, plus petrol, plus luas ticket. It's not by choice I have to get to work.. regardless of how I feel paying for it.

However people using the service and travelling by dart.. presumably to go to work or to go into town maybe shopping then I'm sorry but they can afford it - they just don't want to.

People using to shop in greystones.. same as above.. they can afford €2.

Let's face it's €2 won't even buy you a tea let alone a coffee or sandwich.

I actually think anything up to €5 for an entrie days parking is not mental money!

8-10 hours parking for €2.. even €5??

I parked in jury's inn on Christchurch in town for 1 hour and 5 mins on Monday and it cost me €7.20!!!

Let's keep it in perspective! It's not unreasonable to expect to pay something for a parking facility.

As I already mentioned the maintenance of this area costs money - this has to be paid for... and I stand by at the current proposed rate of €2 that's pretty cheap.

At the end of the day this has to factored into all costs for a person using it..

76544567

cocker5 wrote: »

I never said it was minuscule to me as per my previous post I pay double that .. each day, plus petrol, plus luas ticket. It's not by choice I have to get to work.. regardless of how I feel paying for it.

However people using the service and travelling by dart.. presumably to go to work or to go into town maybe shopping then I'm sorry but they can afford it - they just don't want to.

People using to shop in greystones.. same as above.. they can afford €2.

Let's face it's €2 won't even buy you a tea let alone a coffee or sandwich.

I actually think anything up to €5 for an entrie days parking is not mental money!

8-10 hours parking for €2.. even €5??

I parked in jury's inn on Christchurch in town for 1 hour and 5 mins on Monday and it cost me €7.20!!!

Let's keep it in perspective! It's not unreasonable to expect to pay something for a parking facility.

As I already mentioned the maintenance of this area costs money - this has to be paid for... and I stand by at the current proposed rate of €2 that's pretty cheap.

At the end of the day this has to factored into all costs for a person using it..

All well and good if they make a legally binding commitment that €2 stays at €2 for say a minimum of 10 years.

Otherwise it will be €2 to get it in the door and then €6 in two years.
But hey, cheaper than Bray.

Kat1170

cocker5 wrote: »

I never said it was minuscule to me as per my previous post I pay double that .. each day, plus petrol, plus luas ticket. It's not by choice I have to get to work.. regardless of how I feel paying for it.

However people using the service and travelling by dart.. presumably to go to work or to go into town maybe shopping then I'm sorry but they can afford it - they just don't want to.

People using to shop in greystones.. same as above.. they can afford €2.

Let's face it's €2 won't even buy you a tea let alone a coffee or sandwich.

I actually think anything up to €5 for an entrie days parking is not mental money!

8-10 hours parking for €2.. even €5??

I parked in jury's inn on Christchurch in town for 1 hour and 5 mins on Monday and it cost me €7.20!!!

Let's keep it in perspective! It's not unreasonable to expect to pay something for a parking facility.

As I already mentioned the maintenance of this area costs money - this has to be paid for... and I stand by at the current proposed rate of €2 that's pretty cheap.

At the end of the day this has to factored into all costs for a person using it..

Ah right, so your argument is basically based on the "if I have to do it, everyone should have to" field of thought.

cocker5

Kat1170 wrote: »

Ah right, so your argument is basically based on the "if I have to do it, everyone should have to" field of thought.

Yes thats exactly what i said above.. word for word :rolleyes:

Its a service that COSTS the council money to run... its not maintaned for free... so yes therefore everyone should pay - simple fact

and ill go back to my actual point €2??? even €5 come on people its hardly first world problems here!!!

Kat1170

cocker5 wrote: »

Yes thats exactly what i said above.. word for word

Glad you agree

cocker5 wrote: »

Its a service that COSTS the council money to run... its not maintaned for free... so yes therefore everyone should pay - simple fact

When people move back to using their cars to get to work every day it is going to COST more in road maintenance, as well as extra congestion and pollution, so they are only trading one COST for another. Simple fact !!!!!!!

cocker5

Kat1170 wrote: »

Glad you agree



When people move back to using their cars to get to work every day it is going to COST more in road maintenance, as well as extra congestion and pollution, so they are only trading one COST for another. Simple fact !!!!!!!

eh no not really we pay for the roads through other taxes, and our car tax looks after our roads / emissions..
so no their not trading anything really, they get taxes for them anyway!

Annasopra

cocker5 wrote: »

Yes thats exactly what i said above.. word for word :rolleyes:

Its a service that COSTS the council money to run... its not maintaned for free... so yes therefore everyone should pay - simple fact

and ill go back to my actual point €2??? even €5 come on people its hardly first world problems here!!!

Such patronising arguments that because you can afford an extra €10 a week everyone else can. I'd love to see your proof of this! You seem to be asserting it as a fact with nothing backing the fact up other than your opinion.

Not only that but you seem to ignore everything in this discussion apart from the cost.

Kat1170

cocker5 wrote: »

eh no not really we pay for the roads through other taxes, and our car tax looks after our roads / emissions..
so no their not trading anything really, they get taxes for them anyway!

'Motor tax' just goes into general taxation and is not used specifically for 'upkeep of the roads'.

If people don't use P&R it creates extra traffic. There will be EXTRA wear and tear on the roads which will cost EXTRA to fix.



I underlined and bolded the word EXTRA because despite your use of the word earlier I don't think you understand it.

How is extra traffic on the roads a good thing.
It creates extra costs for upkeep of infrastructure, creates extra pollution, and extra congestion.
All the things P&R is supposed to reduce.

2011

Please keep the discussion civil.
Thanks.

jobless

The point of park and rides are to get people to use public transport not price them out of it..... 500 quid on top of people's already expensive transport costs is a lot!..
If the government was serious about reducing car usage then these should be subsidised..

As for the costs of maintaining the car park.....very minimal i would say...
assuming a full car park Mon-Fri (500 spaces) thats 5k a week or 20k a month, or 240k a year.... employing an extra warden and upkeep id say 60k max (and thats being generous).... its shows that it is purely a revenue raising exercise...

If they wanted to break even on the car park, charge people 50 cent a day...

cocker5

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Such patronising arguments that because you can afford an extra €10 a week everyone else can. I'd love to see your proof of this! You seem to be asserting it as a fact with nothing backing the fact up other than your opinion.

Not only that but you seem to ignore everything in this discussion apart from the cost.

Ill just say the people who are "freaking out" over a possible charge of €2 for an entire days parking fee :rolleyes: must really have little else going on in the life. I'm sorry but the reality it is €2 - end of...

jobless

cocker5 wrote: »

Ill just say the people who are "freaking out" over a possible charge of €2 for an entire days parking fee :rolleyes: must really have little else going on in the life. I'm sorry but the reality it is €2 - end of...

its not just 2 euro if you use it everyday, it all adds up over the year..... 500 a year is a lot of money to some people....

recedite

jobless wrote: »

its not just 2 euro if you use it everyday, it all adds up over the year..... 500 a year is a lot of money to some people....

And all those 500's add up to a lot of money for WCC.
All this petty squabbling over the money, and no real attempt at a creative solution.
They do say people get the politicians they deserve

Wicklow Will

I'd be very interested to know just how many of the people who've contributed here, have actually submitted objections to the proposed introduction of parking charges?

We can all complain here as much as we like, but unless we submit objections to WCC, it'll all count for nothing!

Annasopra

recedite wrote: »

And all those 500's add up to a lot of money for WCC.
All this petty squabbling over the money, and no real attempt at a creative solution.
They do say people get the politicians they deserve

I am not sure what your point is really. There is a discussion here on local government policy. There was a call for a public consultation on parking bye laws. Some agree with the proposal to charge at the park and ride. Others don't.

loyatemu

people were handing out fliers about this at the station this morning.

CramCycle

cocker5 wrote: »

and ill go back to my actual point €2??? even €5 come on people its hardly first world problems here!!!

For you maybe, for others it is the fine line between eating well and barely surviving.

recedite wrote: »

All this petty squabbling over the money, and no real attempt at a creative solution.
They do say people get the politicians they deserve

I am not a town planner and have no idea what is feasible, allowed or would be welcomed by the community. I know that the current suggestion is not a suitable one, maybe the town planners and engineers employed by the tax payer might make some alternative suggestions? Constructive engagement with Irish Rail would be a good start, what are they willing to provide if moves are made to make it more attractive? Could they partially co fund any solution, or provide rebate based on increasing numbers over time?

Wicklow Will wrote: »

I'd be very interested to know just how many of the people who've contributed here, have actually submitted objections to the proposed introduction of parking charges?

I have, I presume most people who have responded aginast, I know several friends in the area have also written in.

patrickpc

CramCycle wrote: »

For you maybe, for others it is the fine line between eating well and barely surviving.
I am not a town planner and have no idea what is feasible, allowed or would be welcomed by the community. I know that the current suggestion is not a suitable one, maybe the town planners and engineers employed by the tax payer might make some alternative suggestions? Constructive engagement with Irish Rail would be a good start, what are they willing to provide if moves are made to make it more attractive? Could they partially co fund any solution, or provide rebate based on increasing numbers over time?
I have, I presume most people who have responded aginast, I know several friends in the area have also written in.

@Cramcycle -

Do you mind me asking what points you put in your objection. I am going to email today but I think it would be best if we sang off the same hymn sheet.

While €2 a day may not seem much it adds up to about €500 / year after tax or about a €1,000 before tax. I can't see why anyone should accept a €1000 pay cut without putting up a protest or at least send an email to parkingbyelaws@wicklowcoco.ie to complain. The more people complain the less likely this new tax will be introduced.

eigrod

patrickpc wrote: »

@Cramcycle -

Do you mind me asking what points you put in your objection. I am going to email today but I think it would be best if we sang off the same hymn sheet.

I think the opposite. You should put forward your own objections as to how it will affect you, not ones you've plagiarised from someone else or from the internet.

patrickpc

eigrod wrote: »

I think the opposite. You should put forward your own objections as to how it will affect you, not ones you've plagiarised from someone else or from the internet.

Fair enough putting forward your own objections but I'm sure that there are plenty of grounds for objection (or other solutions to propose) that I won't think of but wish I had so no harm in hearing what other people think.

I notice you didn't mention what your own objections are - care to share and not just knock?