Michael Conlan Pro Debut

Blanco100

walshb wrote: »

But he still won the gold medal, and in the SHW division, and at the home Olympics, and then went on to be a pro at HW. Can you imagine if we produced that? Superstar would be the biggest understatement ever. I made the point to show that him and Conlan are not comparable here. No way. Is AJ hyped? Yes, no doubt.

Conlan is Ireland's only male world amateur champion, he is being marketed in a part of the US that has cried out for a decent irish fighter.

You could say olympic gold medals are ten a penny in Britain, Audley Harrison, Luke Cambpell, James Degale.

Unjustified hype parallel to actual ability is the topic I thought. In that context, theres damn all between Joshua and Conlan in terms of critiquing the hype surrounding them when they started out.

Joshua won a gold medal despite some questionable decisions and his pro career was launched on the basis of being an olympic gold medalist. Conlan on the basis of being a world amateur champion who was screwed in Rio.

Without that world title under his belt, I don't think an outburst at Rio gets him a deal with Top Rank.

walshb

Blanco100 wrote: »

Conlan is Ireland's only male world amateur champion, he is being marketed in a part of the US that has cried out for a decent irish fighter.

You could say olympic gold medals are ten a penny in Britain, Audley Harrison, Luke Cambpell, James Degale.

Unjustified hype parallel to actual ability is the topic I thought. In that context, theres damn all between Joshua and Conlan in terms of critiquing the hype surrounding them when they started out.

Joshua won a gold medal despite some questionable decisions and his pro career was launched on the basis of being an olympic gold medalist. Conlan on the basis of being a world amateur champion who was screwed in Rio.

Without that world title under his belt, I don't think an outburst at Rio gets him a deal with Top Rank.

You can't dismiss the physical differences here either. A big monster of a man at HW who was an Olympic champion. It will always be that bit more appealing and sellable' to the masses compared to a skinny lighter weight fighter without a gold medal.

BTW, as great is is to win a world medal, to most fans and particularly casual fans it's all about gold at the Olympics. It's just far more prestigious.

I am not denying that AJ is hyped. He is.

snowflaker

If you think @MickConlan11's pro debut was something special, wait until you see what we have planned for @ShakurStevenson's debut on 4/22!

Bob Arum

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

Looking forward to seeing what he's got. It's a pity him and Conlan didn't get to share the ring in Rio.

Shakur and Robeissy would have been a step too far for MC in Rio. But yes, a shame!

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

You can't dismiss the physical differences here either. A big monster of a man at HW who was an Olympic champion. It will always be that bit more appealing and sellable' to the masses compared to a skinny lighter weight fighter without a gold medal.

BTW, as great is is to win a world medal, to most fans and particularly casual fans it's all about gold at the Olympics. It's just far more prestigious.

I am not denying that AJ is hyped. He is.

That's why Barry McGuigan never became a household name......... oh wait a second!!

snowflaker

pac_man wrote: »

Looking forward to seeing what he's got. It's a pity him and Conlan didn't get to share the ring in Rio.

Big shame, but Conlan shipped far to
Much against the Russian.

snowflaker

pac_man wrote: »

What does that mean?

The last round against the Russian Conlan took far more shots than necessary

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

Can't see how you could be so certain. 50/50 fights between the three of them.

I wouldn't be certain. I should have written "I feel." MC would be very competitive, but for me both would have been a step too far.

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

That's why Barry McGuigan never became a household name......... oh wait a second!!

What's your point?

I made a comparison as regards hype and how not always can we compare or equate accurately one fighter's hype against another's.

AJs hype is something very expected and something you could really see, not necessarily believe in, but see. MCs not near as much. I don't see them as all that similar.

Oh, and Barry became a household name through it being truly earned in the pro game. He was known before he hit the big time, but any hype around him was actually earned and delivered by his professional performances in the ring. So you're bringing up his name to make some point is rubbish.

megadodge

My feeling, having watched all three right through the Olympics, was that Michael would have been a 55/45 favourite against Stevenson and 50/50 against Robeissy.

But we didn't get to see that because of a WRONG decision.

snowflaker

pac_man wrote: »

Not sure the point you're trying to make, he still won the fight.

Well yes he did. But he did take a lot of unnecessary punishment from the Russian

I had him win R1&2 with the third tight

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

Not sure the point you're trying to make, he still won the fight.

Maybe the poster is trying to say that his lack of defence would have hurt him against Shakur and Robeissy?

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

Based on what?

Based on both being a little better...

Tidier and a bit more accurate and clinical.

snowflaker

walshb wrote: »

Maybe the poster is trying to say that his lack of defence would have hurt him against Shakur and Robeissy?

Yes. I didn't realise I had to spell things out so literally

walshb

snowflaker wrote: »

Well yes he did. But he did take a lot of unnecessary punishment from the Russian

I had him win R1&2 with the third tight

Unnecessary? Well, maybe. But he engaged and threw punches to score and win. When you do that there is a chance you will get hit. Had he decided not to go and win then yes, he takes less, but what good would that do in that moment? He was fighting on desire and instinct and split second action. A truly tremendous display I must say. I had him winning, but to me it was closer than many others saw it.

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

What's your point?

I made a comparison as regards hype and how not always can we compare or equate accurately one fighter's hype against another's.

AJs hype is something very expected and something you could really see, not necessarily believe in, but see. MCs not near as much. I don't see them as all that similar.

Oh, and Barry became a household name through it being truly earned in the pro game. He was known before he hit the big time, but any hype around him was actually earned and delivered by his professional performances in the ring. So you're bringing up his name to make some point is rubbish.

I thought my point was very obvious?

A "skinny lighter weight fighter, without a gold medal" can become a superstar.

Barry proved that. His amateur career wasn't even close to Michael's. He wasn't remotely as well known when he turned pro, yet he became a household name on these islands. The day after he beat Pedroza, ALL the broadsheet Irish Sunday papers entire front pages (and many more) had no other story on them. That was unprecedented for a sports event.

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

I thought my point was very obvious?

A "skinny lighter weight fighter, without a gold medal" can become a superstar.

Barry proved that. His amateur career wasn't even close to Michael's. He wasn't remotely as well known when he turned pro, yet he became a household name on these islands. The day after he beat Pedroza, ALL the broadsheet Irish Sunday papers entire front pages (and many more) had no other story on them. That was unprecedented for a sports event.

As usual you miss the post you are quoting. Nobody said a skinny lighter weight fighter cannot become a star. Hence why your point puzzled me.

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

More probability of him getting hurt off the Russian than with them two,completely different styles.

Stevenson was and is still is pretty much unknown. We can't really evaluate him based off the Olympics as his first competitive fight was the final.There is alot of noise coming from the US saying that he's the real deal,I'm looking forward to seeing what all the hype is about.

Sorry, by hurt I meant hit and punished. I didn't mean damaged/wobbled kind of hurt. More his open defence would hurt him.

And I'm sure the Americans are wondering what's all this hype about MC..

snowflaker

walshb wrote: »

Unnecessary? Well, maybe. But he engaged and threw punches to score and win. When you do that there is a chance you will get hit. Had he decided not to go and win then yes, he takes less, but what good would that do in that moment? He was fighting on desire and instinct and split second action. A truly tremendous display I must say. I had him winning, but to me it was closer than many others saw it.

As I had him winning 1 & 2 I gave 3 to the Russian

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

Yeah, he's only won next to everything in the amateurs, no big deal really.

Do you realky think the Americans give a fook what some Irish kid won in the amateurs? Considering amateur boxing for the Americans has been a complete failure the last few years and more. Don't be so naive. MC said it himself. He's being hyped because of his Rio rant! End of.

Next to everything but Gold at the Olympics. Maybe then the Americans would look.

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

As usual you miss the post you are quoting. Nobody said a skinny lighter weight fighter cannot become a star. Hence why your point puzzled me.

Here's what you wrote not long before your "skinny lighter weight" quote -

"Here's one: This marketability? Conlan to me is just an average run of the mill kid. Irish and white. Kind of ten a penny. I just don't see what's to get worked up or exited about. He said it himself that had he not erupted in Rio he likely wouldn't be getting near the attention that he is getting.

Remember. Thread opening suggests absolute superstar. Not saying that cannot happen, but to state it with such conviction based off what, is what we are discussing. "

So, remember, thread opening is about being a superstar and you make it clear that you don't see anything special about him, which in itself is laughable. I then gave a very obvious example of a similar fighter who became a superstar, except he came from an even unlikelier background than Conlan.

And what happens? You're "puzzled".

Not for the first time.

SHOVELLER

megadodge wrote: »

I thought my point was very obvious?

A "skinny lighter weight fighter, without a gold medal" can become a superstar.

Barry proved that. His amateur career wasn't even close to Michael's. He wasn't remotely as well known when he turned pro, yet he became a household name on these islands. The day after he beat Pedroza, ALL the broadsheet Irish Sunday papers entire front pages (and many more) had no other story on them. That was unprecedented for a sports event.

Unfair to compare Barry to Conlan. Completely different times politically and where we had NO success in international sports at the time bar the Triple Crown. I still have the colour front page of the Tribune.

Can Conlan repeat with a world title? Well he's got the backing and the confidence. I think he can but just short of elite. Like Andy Lee he can win a belt.

SHOVELLER

First the facts.

Conlan sold out the Theatre at Madison Square Garden on his pro debut. His attitude over here, like McGregor’s, is how tickets are sold and the locals appreciate that arrogance and confidence. It’s seen here as how winners perform.

The diddly aye ****e works here.

Arum knows what he’s doing signing Conlan on a six figure signing fee and booking this venue for the next 5 years. Duddy was down this road before but Conlan is way hungrier.

He said beforehand that he would finish it in the third and if people lumped on so be it.

Anyway in a local hostelry having a good time but keeping an eye on twitter accounts when one came in saying he was up next and this was a half hour before supposed ringwalk! Hasty exit as the other lads were already inside.

Got in on time to see some of the ringwalk through a forest of phones!

To say it was a heaving mass of green would be an understatement but I didn’t see anyone that messed up to be fair. Never saw my seat as everyone was standing at the start so as usual went down as near ringside as possible!

I estimated looking around that about one fifth of the crowd were actually watching the fight as opposed to watching it on the screen, looking at their phones or singing!

Of course with the build up and hype there was an inevitability that he would be rusty and wild. But he was a class above Ibarra who looked astonished at the mayhem around him!

Despite a slow start in the first round the second had Conlan concentrating on the body and so onto the third which was crunch time. I thought the ref was right. Ibarra was swarmed and out of his depth and it was the correct decision to step in. Impressed with the bodywork and switching styles was good for him too. Of course there is room for improvement but he did what he had to do. Being over critical is reading too much into tbh.

McGregor made the most out of it but smartly avoided the in ring question about the Mayweather fight.

Then to my surprise Sergey Kovalev walked by! Couldn’t believe it as nobody there recognized him so shook his hand and asked for the photo. He nodded and then I said that I had been in Vegas and he had won the fight but don’t know if he heard due to the noise!

On a high we left and made our way down to the after party but that was a ****show outside as a big crowd were outside and we had no wristbands so off we went. I know I helped closed Jimmy’s!

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

Here's what you wrote not long before your "skinny lighter weight" quote -

"Here's one: This marketability? Conlan to me is just an average run of the mill kid. Irish and white. Kind of ten a penny. I just don't see what's to get worked up or exited about. He said it himself that had he not erupted in Rio he likely wouldn't be getting near the attention that he is getting.

Remember. Thread opening suggests absolute superstar. Not saying that cannot happen, but to state it with such conviction based off what, is what we are discussing. "

So, remember, thread opening is about being a superstar and you make it clear that you don't see anything special about him, which in itself is laughable. I then gave a very obvious example of a similar fighter who became a superstar, except he came from an even unlikelier background than Conlan.

And what happens? You're "puzzled".

Not for the first time.

.

So go quote the correct sh1t then. Stop quoting one post with your points and then backtrack and use other posts to try and explain your being obtuse. Even this latest one is the same.

To put it simple as I can for you: Nobody said MC cannot become a star. Right now IMO all this hype seems ridiculously contrived and exaggerated. He will become a star IF he delivers in the ring. Kind of like how Barry did it.

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

I can't answer for all Americans.

The rant made him more recognisable.It's heightened his profile. It just so happens that he was a quality amateur aswell and that shouldn't be belittled.

Nobody is belittling his amateur success. Maybe you meant downplaying it?

Americans aren't buying anything into his amateur success. Plenty others with even better amateur results have passed through the ranks.

I'm no eejit. I am not buying this as anything other than hype being spun and thrown at people due to MCs Rio rant. With social media and the world so in tune and connected, as well as this silly attitude of being labelled something without needing to do sh1t, it's not at all surprising. I wouldn't at all blame MC for getting on board. It makes career and business sense. But it still doesn't change what is is. OTT unjustified hype.

When MC starts producing results and earning success I will be the first to say: Now, let's embrace and enjoy.

I just can't get carried away with contrived and substanceless hype.

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

.

So go quote the correct sh1t then. Stop quoting one post with your points and then backtrack and use other posts to try and explain your being obtuse. Even this latest one is the same.

To put it simple as I can for you: Nobody said MC cannot become a star. Right now IMO all this hype seems ridiculously contrived and exaggerated. He will become a star IF he delivers in the ring. Kind of like how Barry did it.

Jaysus Joe tis terrible...

Tis awful I'm telling ya...

He's just so inconsiderate...

This is very difficult for me Joe... very difficult...

I mean.... imagine this.... he didn't even use MULTI-QUOTE Joe. That's just badness Joe!!

And with my goldfish memory, how am I supposed to know what he's talking about if he doesn't quote every post in the thread Joe.



It's not 'acute' Joe, no, it's not even 'reflex' Joe, it's..... it's..... OBTUSE!!

Jaysus I'm off to watch another re-run of The Shawshank Redemption.

walshb

Your attempts at comedy doesn't explain your obtuseness either.

begbysback

walshb wrote: »

Your attempts at comedy doesn't explain your obtuseness either.

But it was funny

walshb

begbysback wrote: »

But it was funny

T'was. I concede!

Johner

https://twitter.com/therealscottlaw/status/868069462091628544

Conlan's opponent looking well. :pac: