Too poor to buy sanitary towels

snowflaker

hungry hypno toad wrote: »

And leaving the vulnerable children with the parents is not fixing the problem.

If the issue at hand is lack of sanitary supplies, it is.

ancapailldorcha

snowflaker wrote: »

lobby for it support campaigns.

So do you intend to financially contribute or just click "Like" on a Facebook page. Why not buy some for locally disadvantaged people?

snowflaker

I agree -- but unlike some on this thread, I don't suspect that right-wing Tories are rubbing their hands together and delighting in the prospect of teenage girls having no sanitary protection.

If that comment is aimed at me, its distorting what I said. Tories and new labour are responsible as this has occurred under their governments. If the people that vote them in don't see it as a priority or just a personal failure, the government would feel the need to prioritise it.

snowflaker

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

So do you intend to financially contribute or just click "Like" on a Facebook page. Why not buy some for locally disadvantaged people?

Again, Im going to to lobby, and continue to financially support orgs that provide help.

If you think lobbying is just liking a fb page then I can't help you

stefanovich

BlinkingLights wrote:

You can literally be cut off.

How else can they ensure that the rules around receipt of social welfare are followed?

hungry hypno toad

snowflaker wrote: »

If the issue at hand is lack of sanitary supplies, it is.

A parent allowing their child to mitch is an indication of wider issues in the household that need to be addressed. Free sanitary products is papering over the problem.

hungry hypno toad

hungry hypno toad wrote: »

The alternative is probably to remove the child from the parents care then if they aren't capable of looking after the child properly.

Because that would be more cost effective than providing the sanitary ware?

hungry hypno toad wrote: »

How would this family handle the first bra and sex education?

There is no aunt or family friend to approach?

Not necessarily, no.

I think you have little understanding of how some young girls can find the subject embarrassing.

I'm sure you're aware that sex education is now provided in schools. I've personally had my daughter donate bras, that allegedly didn't fit, to a young girl in that situation.

I only became aware of it because she mentioned an episode in P.E. class, though.
I didn't actually know the child - and she obviously didn't feel she had anyone she could ask....

These situations do actually happen.
We're just usually unaware of them.

Thoie

Something that strikes me is the number of women on this thread who are apologising for "TMI" when giving details about periods. These are grown women (for the most part). When grown women apologise for mentioning periods in public, how do you expect teenagers to be able to demand hygiene products from parents who may not have much money?

So, to clear things up for the few men out there who may not be aware:

Often the first sign of your period having started is when you go pee, wipe and notice that the toilet tissue is now stained red. Or that your knickers are already stained. Sometimes you'll get a damp feeling in the knickers, but not always. There are some physical symptoms in the run up (tender breasts, thicker vaginal mucous, for example), but there's no major signal that the bleeding has actually started. Other advance warning signs are sudden cravings for salt (like crisps/popcorn) or chocolate, even among people who don't usually eat those kind of things. I rarely add salt to cooked food - my advance notice is when I suddenly decide out of the blue to put salt on my vegetables or eggs.

The "blood" is not all blood. It's not the nice crimson of a fresh cut on your finger. It's not a watery liquid. It's a thick, fairly viscous fluid, often brownish (as the blood oxidizes), sometimes with varying sizes of "clots", which are bits of the endometrial lining.

It usually doesn't smell bad, but can do if you haven't had a chance to change your towel/tampon regularly enough. You're inclined to sweat more during your period (especially in the early days), so overall hygiene is more important. For the first few years of getting periods I used have to have a wash at lunchtime and change my school shirt - I was fortunate that we could afford extra school shirts, not everyone is so lucky.

The flow usually changes during your period. Some people start heavy and taper off, others start light, get heavy and taper off again. There's no defined length of time your period will last. Many people are pretty regular, but for others periods can come at almost random times, and last for varying durations. Some people might get away with using less than one pack of towels per period, some might need two or more packs. This can also vary month to month.

Some people get no pain at all, others get a variety of different pains. Common pains are a dragging feeling low in your tummy, general cramps, and a sharp, random pain where it feels like someone has stuck a very long knife up your vagina. People with conditions such as endometriosis will have additional pains.

It's not uncommon to get a bit constipated in the run up to your period, then slightly looser movements when it starts. This, combined with more gunk than just pee, leads to needing extra toilet paper (for all those men wondering about the amount of paper that women use).

Due to the lack of general conversation about periods, young teenage girls can get very embarrassed even admitting they have periods. I had an older sister and a mother, and I used still whisper if I needed sanitary towels, on the off chance that my father or someone out on the street might hear. (As I grew up, I realised my father wouldn't faint at the mention of periods). Most girls have had the experience in secondary school of needing to go to the toilet in the middle of a class, and trying to hide hygiene products up their sleeve in case someone might know why you were suddenly going to the toilet 5 seconds after class starts.

Half the population will probably have a period at some stage in their life. To help stop it affecting girls' education, we need to demystify it, and realise it's not a big deal. It shouldn't be any more embarrassing to have period leak stains on your jeans (or school skirt) than it is to realise you've sat on chewing gum, or have a coffee stain on your shirt.

Are there any "gory" details I've left out that we should share?

the_pen_turner

snowflaker wrote: »

So extending it to also include sanitary towels would seem fair? I mean why toilet paper and not sanitary towels?

I would have no problem with that. The maintance people still have to empty those bins anyway so why not.
They are a basic requirement

hungry hypno toad

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Because that would be more cost effective than providing the sanitary ware?



Not necessarily, no.

I think you have little understanding of how some young girls can find the subject embarrassing.

I'm sure you're aware that sex education is now provided in schools. I've personally had my daughter donate bras, that allegedly didn't fit, to a young girl in that situation.

I only became aware of it because she mentioned an episode in P.E. class, though.
I didn't actually know the child - and she obviously didn't feel she had anyone she could ask....

These situations do actually happen.
We're just usually unaware of them.

So where there is a will there is a way. State intervention not really needed.

Permabear

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I don't know if many are blaming the government really, I'm not anyway.

I'd be totally in favour of essential items being made available via voucher, though I don't think all benefits should be voucher only. I don't think it's a particularly dignified way to treat people in need and I wouldn't want to see the honest majority who've fallen on hard times to be penalized by the actions of the opportunists.

The problem with vouchers is how to make sure the intended beneficiary is the one who actually gains. It's not like you can make young enough children responsible for getting and using them themselves, and then the danger is that they become currency, as has been said.

If the school becomes the dispensary - and I think it's unfair to schools to make them responsible for this kind of thing - then the kids who aren't sent to school still suffer, and these are the ones who I suspect are most likely to suffer from not having the original needs met anyway.

It's a nightmare to navigate, but I think it's important to try. To misuse those Bible quotes, while the poor will always be with us, I don't think they're ever going to inherit the earth.

ancapailldorcha

Candie wrote: »

It's a nightmare to navigate, but I think it's important to try. To misuse those Bible quotes, while the poor will always be with us, I don't think they're ever going to inherit the earth.

Of course. A problem has been identified and needs tackling.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

reallyrose

Thoie wrote: »

Other advance warning signs are sudden cravings for salt (like crisps/popcorn) or chocolate, even among people who don't usually eat those kind of things. I rarely add salt to cooked food - my advance notice is when I suddenly decide out of the blue to put salt on my vegetables or eggs.

omg, I've never noticed this before but thinking about it now, this might explain the urge to eat chips/bacon/burgers.
I'll sub in something salty but less calorie laden this month and see what happens.

(I never add salt to anything either)

Thoie wrote: »

Are there any "gory" details I've left out that we should share?

The sense of smell of 1000 bears.

jimgoose

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Because Idiot. You'll have that. You'll find very little of that £13bn was spent by children, though.

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Of course. A problem has been identified and needs tackling.

I'm not convinced it's a widespread problem, I don't know much about the issue in the UK/Irl. Obviously the numbers affected need to be accurately identified, though one child is one too many and it needs to be sorted.

The greater problem surrounding sanitary hygiene is in developing countries where the health consequences are much greater and it's much more difficult to address.

stefanovich

jimgoose wrote:

Because Idiot. You'll have that. You'll find very little of that £13bn was spent by children, though.

I didn't think children had periods, by definition.

hungry hypno toad

hungry hypno toad wrote: »

So where there is a will there is a way. State intervention not really needed.

What "way"?

My daughter came in from school, and told me about an incident where a young girl was unmercifully mocked in P.E. class.

So, I did something about it.

That child had already suffered!:mad:
How much more do you think she should have endured if my daughter hadn't told me about it? By pure chance, I might add!

Do you honestly think young girls tell the whole neighbourhood/school community when they're having these problems!:rolleyes:

They're more likely to avoid P.E class, and other "solutions", rather than ask for help, particularly, as in this girl's case, from someone you don't even know....

SILVAMAN

JupiterKid wrote: »

I was on a UK web discussion forum this afternoon and there was a thread about situations where teenage girls weren't going to school because their parents couldn't afford to buy them sanitary towels. Thoughts? And would it happen here?

Sound like a concerted effort to add yet something else to the "entitlement" list.
Use a fist full of grass.

ancapailldorcha

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Speaking anecdotally from my own experience as a betting shop cashier, well over 90% of these people would be men who very likely hadn't dependents who needed the money for sanitary products.

hungry hypno toad

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What "way"?

My daughter came in from school, and told me about an incident where a young girl was unmercifully mocked in P.E. class.

So, I did something about it.

That child had already suffered!:mad:
How much more do you think she should have endured if my daughter hadn't told me about it? By pure chance, I might add!

Do you honestly think young girls tell the whole neighbourhood/school community when they're having these problems!:rolleyes:

They're more likely to avoid P.E class, and other "solutions", rather than ask for help, particularly, as in this girl's case, from someone you don't even know....

Enough with the faux outrage.

jimgoose

stefanovich wrote: »

I didn't think children had periods, by definition.

It usually starts at around the age of 12, occasionally as young as 9 or 10. Are these not children? Are we gone Bush all of a sudden? :pac:

snowflaker

stefanovich wrote: »

I didn't think children had periods, by definition.

Is my 11 year old niece not a child???

snowflaker

Those Fixed odds betting terminals are a scourge on our society.

Thoie

stefanovich wrote: »

I didn't think children had periods, by definition.

jimgoose wrote: »

It usually starts at around the age of 12, occasionally as young as 9 or 10. Are these not children? Are we gone Bush all of a sudden? :pac:

While starting your period is colloquially referred to as "becoming a woman", in Ireland we don't generally tell 11 year olds "well, you're an adult now you've got your period, so feck off and get a job and rent a flat for yourself".

Thoie

Thoie wrote: »

Are there any "gory" details I've left out that we should share?

I went to an all-girls boarding school, and everyone in our house of fifty something girls had synced up menses.

Fifty odd girls with simultaneous PMS, fifty odd girls needing the bathrooms and extra paper and hot water, fifty odd girls getting extra bread rolls from the dining hall to keep them going between meals, fifty odd girls asking for hot water bottles, and fifty odd girls running out of paracetamol at the same time.

Ah, those were the days :P

Also plus one on the salty food, the consequent thirst, and the craving for carbs, carbs, carbs, all the live-long day!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

mrsdewinter

hungry hypno toad wrote: »

So where there is a will there is a way. State intervention not really needed.

Whose will? The will of the nice friend who had the cop-on to mention it to her mum? The will of the sensible woman who could empathise with a young girl? It was only happenstance that the nice woman, who happened to have the means to buy extra bras - which isn't a given, heard about the girl's situation. The young girl was lucky this had a fairly satisfactory outcome.
What do you propose? That young girls, not nature's most outgoing creatures, disclose a deeply personal aspect of their lives and bodies to all and sundry in the hope that a kind lady somewhere on the fringes of their social world will throw an extra box of Lillets her way??
(To be clear, the poster who joined the dots when she heard her daughter talking about her classmate's problem is a hero. But we can't depend on heroes being around every 28 days, for 5 days or so...)

mrsdewinter

Candie wrote: »

I went to an all-girls boarding school, and everyone in our house of fifty something girls had synced up menses.

Fifty odd girls with simultaneous PMS, fifty odd girls needing the bathrooms and extra paper and hot water, fifty odd girls getting extra bread rolls from the dining hall to keep them going between meals, fifty odd girls asking for hot water bottles, and fifty odd girls running out of paracetamol at the same time.

Ah, those were the days :P

Also plus one on the salty food, the consequent thirst, and the craving for carbs, carbs, carbs, all the live-long day!

Off topic but although I'd heard about synchronisation of periods, I always thought it was a process that would take weeks or months to take hold. Until I went on a girlie holiday and within days, my period had arrived, in sync with the other women in the shared accommodation. It was bizarre!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Thoie

reallyrose wrote: »

omg, I've never noticed this before but thinking about it now, this might explain the urge to eat chips/bacon/burgers.
I'll sub in something salty but less calorie laden this month and see what happens.

Candie wrote: »

Also plus one on the salty food, the consequent thirst, and the craving for carbs, carbs, carbs, all the live-long day!

Ah yes, how could I forget to mention the carbs? I think this is why people reach for crisps - salty carbs in a convenient bag, with some bonus fat!

mrsdewinter

mrsdewinter wrote: »

Off topic but although I'd heard about synchronisation of periods, I always thought it was a process that would take weeks or months to take hold. Until I went on a girlie holiday and within days, my period had arrived, in sync with the other women in the shared accommodation. It was bizarre!

That does seem fast!

We had a big wall calendar in our house den and our house mistress used to circle the dates in red and write BATTEN DOWN THE HATCHES! on it.

jimgoose

Candie wrote: »

That does seem fast!

We had a big wall calendar in our house den and our house mistress used to circle the dates in red and write BATTEN DOWN THE HATCHES! on it.

Fifty-odd of ye all going Alien Big-Bitch simultaneously? Best take off and nuke the site from orbit - it's the only way to be sure! :pac:

steddyeddy

Candie wrote: »

I went to an all-girls boarding school, and everyone in our house of fifty something girls had synced up menses.

Fifty odd girls with simultaneous PMS, fifty odd girls needing the bathrooms and extra paper and hot water, fifty odd girls getting extra bread rolls from the dining hall to keep them going between meals, fifty odd girls asking for hot water bottles, and fifty odd girls running out of paracetamol at the same time.

Ah, those were the days :P

Also plus one on the salty food, the consequent thirst, and the craving for carbs, carbs, carbs, all the live-long day!

I always found it fascinating the the cycles sync Candie. I wonder is there any evolutionary reason for that.

Thoie

Thoie wrote: »

Ah yes, how could I forget to mention the carbs? I think this is why people reach for crisps - salty carbs in a convenient bag, with some bonus fat!

I forgot the spots! Fifty something girls with hormonal teen spots!

As if we weren't in bad enough humour to begin with :P

hungry hypno toad

hungry hypno toad wrote: »

Enough with the faux outrage.

What "faux outrage"?
The only outrageous thing around here is the total lack of sympathy for children in difficult circumstances.

mrsdewinter wrote: »

Whose will? The will of the nice friend who had the cop-on to mention it to her mum? The will of the sensible woman who could empathise with a young girl? It was only happenstance that the nice woman, who happened to have the means to buy extra bras - which isn't a given, heard about the girl's situation. The young girl was lucky this had a fairly satisfactory outcome.
What do you propose? That young girls, not nature's most outgoing creatures, disclose a deeply personal aspect of their lives and bodies to all and sundry in the hope that a kind lady somewhere on the fringes of their social world will throw an extra box of Lillets her way??
(To be clear, the poster who joined the dots when she heard her daughter talking about her classmate's problem is a hero. But we can't depend on heroes being around every 28 days, for 5 days or so...)

Oh lord!:o:o
I'm far from a hero! I just happened to be in the right place, at the right time, coupled with the fact that I have a couple of daughters - so, it was easy to do a 2+2=4.

A couple of years earlier, and I wouldn't have copped a thing, tbh!:o

REBELSAFC

Candie wrote: »

I went to an all-girls boarding school, and everyone in our house of fifty something girls had synced up menses.

Fifty odd girls with simultaneous PMS, fifty odd girls needing the bathrooms and extra paper and hot water, fifty odd girls getting extra bread rolls from the dining hall to keep them going between meals, fifty odd girls asking for hot water bottles, and fifty odd girls running out of paracetamol at the same time.

Ah, those were the days :P

Also plus one on the salty food, the consequent thirst, and the craving for carbs, carbs, carbs, all the live-long day!

Myth

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37256161

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

ancapailldorcha

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I know. I just thought I'd shed some light though I'd imagine that John and Mary are using Paddy Power's app to place bets than one of his brick and mortar shops.

steddyeddy

If girls are saying they're too poor to afford sanitary towels I have no reason not to believe them. When people use a food bank I've no reason to think they're lying about being hungry. When people are struggling with cuts to healthcare I have no reason to doubt them.

It's all very well saying "I had X experience with the poor and came to conclusion Y". Unless you've lived it you don't know it.

jimgoose

jimgoose wrote: »

Fifty-odd of ye all going Alien Big-Bitch simultaneously? Best take off and nuke the site from orbit - it's the only way to be sure! :pac:

One of the houses at our school had a house master. I'm sure a similar issue arose in that house, he probably wondered if he'd landed on an alien planet at times. A brave man.

steddyeddy wrote: »

I always found it fascinating the the cycles sync Candie. I wonder is there any evolutionary reason for that.

Well, in spite of my experiences syncing isn't a universal given. Some studies suggest it's not just the proximity of menstruating females but also the closeness of their relationship to one another that are factors, and some studies suggest that the younger the girls are, the more synchronicity is likely, and others suggest that the ability to discern the pheromone 5 alpha-androstenol is likely to be a major factor and that the ability to smell it differs with age. There isn't really any conclusive evidence as to why it happens or how prevalent it really is. Evolutionary theories are thin on the ground because it simply wasn't the case that women used to menstruate much at all over their lives, being either pregnant or breastfeeding - which supresses menstruation - for most of their reproductive lives.

My own experience in school was echoed during a Masters in the US where I lived in dorms and the same issues of carbs, temper, spots and paracetamol arose every month! In fact it was so marked in school and at uni that I'm surprised the literature isn't more conclusive.

jimgoose

Candie wrote: »

One of the houses at our school had a house master. I'm sure a similar issue arose in that house, he probably wondered if he'd landed on an alien planet at times. A brave man...

I'm picturing Gordon Brittas.

REBELSAFC

REBELSAFC wrote: »

Myth

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37256161

I'm afraid all the literature is inconclusive, it can't be either dismissed or proven. Myself I think it's slightly more than just chance, but not something you can consider a given.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Candie

Candie wrote: »

One of the houses at our school had a house master. I'm sure a similar issue arose in that house, he probably wondered if he'd landed on an alien planet at times. A brave man.



Well, in spite of my experiences syncing isn't a universal given. Some studies suggest it's not just the proximity of menstruating females but also the closeness of their relationship to one another that are factors, and some studies suggest that the younger the girls are, the more synchronicity is likely, and others suggest that the ability to discern the pheromone 5 alpha-androstenol is likely to be a major factor and that the ability to smell it differs with age. There isn't really any conclusive evidence as to why it happens or how prevalent it really is. Evolutionary theories are thin on the ground because it simply wasn't the case that women used to menstruate much at all over their lives, being either pregnant or breastfeeding - which supresses menstruation - for most of their reproductive lives.

My own experience in school was echoed during a Masters in the US where I lived in dorms and the same issues of carbs, temper, spots and paracetamol arose every month! In fact it was so marked in school and at uni that I'm surprised the literature isn't more conclusive.

I'd second that. Three of my daughters "synced". Cue, one very tense household for those few days!:D:D

steddyeddy

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

So? Does that affect their ability to afford sanitary towels. If their parents aren't prioritising correctly then what are teenage girls supposed to do about it?

Thoie

steddyeddy wrote: »

So? Does that affect their ability to afford sanitary towels. If their parents aren't prioritising correctly then what are teenage girls supposed to do about it?

Some parents just aren't very clued in. Growing up, we had a calendar in the kitchen where my mother used mark our periods, and when grocery shopping she'd usually pick up a packet, so we rarely ever ran out. Sanitary towels/tampons were kept in the main bathroom, so anyone could help themselves.

It came as a surprise to me that not everyone had a mother that was that organised. In many families, hygiene products were kept hidden away in people's bedrooms, out of sight. Parents depended on daughters to let them know when they needed products. Young teenagers aren't particularly organised (and their periods aren't very regular for the first few years), so it wasn't unusual for friends to say "I realised I'd started my period and had to run to the shop".

Kids can have odd ideas about money. I once asked my mother to buy me a pair of basketball boots (showing my age), and she refused on the basis "we're not made of money". I then got in trouble a week later for not bringing £1 to school for something or other. I knew the value of money, but still didn't quite grasp the difference between a pound for school vs £50 for an unnecessary fashion accessory.

While it would be great if everyone had a mother like mine who anticipated periods and made sure everything was to hand, the majority don't. If girls don't feel able to freely talk about periods, all they may be aware of is "mammy and daddy were fighting about the ESB bill, I can't go ask them to buy me something". More open conversations about periods over the dinner table may help an adult at the table think "sanitary towels are running low, I better pick some up tomorrow".

Widdershins

Candie wrote: »

I'm afraid all the literature is inconclusive, it can't be either dismissed or proven. Myself I think it's slightly more than just chance, but not something you can consider a given.

I've experienced syncing and asked a group of friends, most of them have, too. I don't know what the studies say but we were all living in together with the people we synced with for a good while.

Fratton Fred

steddyeddy wrote: »

If girls are saying they're too poor to afford sanitary towels I have no reason not to believe them. When people use a food bank I've no reason to think they're lying about being hungry. When people are struggling with cuts to healthcare I have no reason to doubt them.

It's all very well saying "I had X experience with the poor and came to conclusion Y". Unless you've lived it you don't know it.

Hi good sir, I am a Nigerian prince and I have ten millions dollars in a bank account.........

Permabear

This post has been deleted.