Japan 2019 World Cup draw

exiledelbows

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

What's the difference between Repechage qualification and playoff winner, does anyone know? Last world cup Uruguay was the repechage winning team. Who was the playoff winner? Is it Oceania 3 Vs Europe 2 or something?

It's exactly that. It'll be something like Spain v Tonga. Just assume it's Tonga. may not have happened last time because of Japan's (and Georgia's) automatic qualification

awec

Great group but it's all set up perfectly for another QF exit.

bilston

Great draw, but tough Quarter Final draw. Although provided we are at full strength we can beat anyone. It remains to be seen how strong SA are in 2019.

WeleaseWoderick

If we have any designs on winning the tournament, then worrying about who we play in the quarter finals (and beyond) shouldn't come into it.

That group is the easiest we could have hoped for but it still doesn't mean that we couldn't slip up against either Scotland or Japan (particularly if it's the first game).

We are quite rightly top seeds based on the past year and we should be looking to win all our group games for the 3rd tournament in a row.

molloyjh

The QF will be tough regardless. You're talking about us facing the likes of South Africa, Argentina, France, Australia or Wales assuming we top the pool. None of those are easy. South Africa and Australia both have massive problems at the moment and there's no sign of either sorting their issues out. As it stands right now I'd take one of those two in the QF happily enough. For all the talk of how SA beat us twice last year the simple fact is that they were at home, we were missing several players and it was the end of a long season where we ended up playing one game with 14 and another at altitude. And in neither game did they beat us by more than a single score.

There's a lot can happen to a team in 2 1/2 years so where we are now is in no way a direct reflection on where we'll be then, but as it stands I'm pretty happy overall.

irishbucsfan

We're all going to be so embarrassed when Gregor Townsend wins a grand slam in 2018 and has Scotland ranked number 1 going into the tournament.

shuffol

New Zealand in particular have a very handy route to the semi's assuming we top our group, they could arrive there a bit undercooked. A lot depends on SA trajectory over the next 2 years but they'll walk their group and will likely be playing sides resting up for group decider/QF against us. Then a QF against Scotland/Japan won't provide too much competition.

sydthebeat

hopefully the difference in this RWC than the last 2 is that:

1. we will have a more consistent and equitable of standard travelling squad, and therefore not such a drop off from 1st to 2nd teamers
2. we wont suffer such catastrophic injuries by playing a teams that would be "less physically direct" than france last time out.

lets not forget that we topped both of the previous pools we were in only to go out to a second place team in the qfs

Japan will be a real threat, i really would not be under estimating them at all. The majority of their players will have had 4 years of super rugby experience at that stage. They will have Jamie Joseph at the helm for 3 years and Tony brown in there for 2. Joseph bringing the forward and defensive steel and Brown bringing the attack and back line guile.
the scotland japan game will be a cracker and hopefully the opening of the competition.

mfceiling

wp_rathead wrote: »

Well that's fairly self explanatory...

shuffol

Japan won't be a pushover at home you'd imagine and will at least be very competitive with Scotland. An ideal scenario for us would be to beat them in the curtain raiser and for them to meet Scotland before we do.

shuffol

mfceiling wrote: »

Well that's fairly self explanatory...

Looks like a circuit diagram.

razorblunt

The Scots in work here are licking their lips.
Not related to the Irn Bru delivery for the vending machine.

They're losing the run of themselves, though to be honest we could do without the ROG soundbites and Heaslip air punches.

sydthebeat

razorblunt wrote: »

The Scots in work here are licking their lips.
Not related to the Irn Bru delivery for the vending machine.

They're losing the run of themselves, though to be honest we could do without the ROG soundbites and Heaslip air punches.

ah in all honesty, ireland was the seed 1 team every 2nd and 3rd seed team wanted to get drawn against..... so they are right to be delighted too.

thelad95

What are your thoughts on playing Japan in the tournament opener? I think it could work in our favour as the weight of expectation will be massive on Japan in that game.

All told, it's the softest group we've ever gotten but the state of how Scotland and Japan will be in two years time is frighteningly unpredictable.

thomond2006

I don't think they will put Ireland as the tournament opener. Say Japan get hockeyed? It puts a downer on the tournament. I'll be shocked if it's not Japan versus a minnow

Buer

thomond2006 wrote: »

I don't think they will put Ireland as the tournament opener. Say Japan get hockeyed? It puts a downer on the tournament. I'll be shocked if it's not Japan versus a minnow

So Scotland?

Historically though, the opening game has often featured a strong side. Australia in 1995 and Argentina for the next 3 RWCs.

Buer

thelad95 wrote: »

What are your thoughts on playing Japan in the tournament opener? I think it could work in our favour as the weight of expectation will be massive on Japan in that game.

I'd rather have Scotland. Japan will be at home, massive support on the day and will be comfortably prepared.

We'll have just flown to the other side of the world and might still be adjusting. I'd rather get Scotland who will be in the same boat.

Lets get Japan in our 3rd or 4th game. Although I'd say the organisers would be eager to get Japan vs Scotland as the final game.

Auldloon

I think Scotland will be missing Vern Cotter a year from now.

ArmaniJeanss

Tournament opener would probably be bad for travelling fans, isn't there usually a sizeable price premium on tickets for it.

razorblunt

Auldloon wrote: »

I think Scotland will be missing Vern Cotter a year from now.

They could be missing him 2 months from now!

razorblunt

sydthebeat wrote: »

ah in all honesty, ireland was the seed 1 team every 2nd and 3rd seed team wanted to get drawn against..... so they are right to be delighted too.

Of course, but there's a time and place for everything, the Scots look for any excuse to get their back up, don't make it easy for them.

Chivito550

The playoff winner will be tonga/Fiji/Samoa. Not exactly an easy game for anyone in our pool.

Riskymove

Chivito550 wrote: »

The playoff winner will be tonga/Fiji/Samoa. Not exactly an easy game for anyone in our pool.

People are reacting way OTT in my view

Lots of articles about "dream draws". Seemingly only based on the fact that we didn't get France and Argentina

None of Scotland, Japan or Samoa/Tonga/Fiji will be easy games

should we be favourites? yes...but not easy games

We're going to win the world cup

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

We're going to win the world cup

I'm going to save this post for two years time when James Ryan lifts the trophy having dispatched England in the final.

Podge_irl

Riskymove wrote: »

People are reacting way OTT in my view

Lots of articles about "dream draws". Seemingly only based on the fact that we didn't get France and Argentina

None of Scotland, Japan or Samoa/Tonga/Fiji will be easy games

should we be favourites? yes...but not easy games

They're as easy as we could have gotten which is all that matters really.

Digifriendly

PTH2009 wrote: »

Could be another all blacks vs Australia final

We have a very good chance of topping our pool. Can't take Japan for granted and we get a taste of them next month

Australia would need to improve massively to be finalists. Their teams in Super Rugby look less than average at present.

leakyboots

What will put the cat among the pigeons is if South Africa beat NZ and ourselves and Scotland start falling over ourselves trying to finish second to avoid the ABs

pickarooney

Former Former wrote: »

I have never heard the word 'repechage' in any other context than the rugby world cup

Olympic rowing?

endabob1

I still fail to understand the logic of doing the draw over 2 years in advance of the competition, basing it on world rankings that are well over 2 years out of date when the tournament starts and before 40% of the final teams are even known.
It makes zero sense to me.
The football world cup qualifying only starts 2 years in advance of the actual competition and the draw is 6 months before it starts.

The Lost Sheep

Riskymove wrote:

None of Scotland, Japan or Samoa/Tonga/Fiji will be easy games

considerably easier than other teams/pools we could have got

endabob1 wrote:

I still fail to understand the logic of doing the draw over 2 years in advance of the competition, basing it on world rankings that are well over 2 years out of date when the tournament starts and before 40% of the final teams are even known. It makes zero sense to me. The football world cup qualifying only starts 2 years in advance of the actual competition and the draw is 6 months before it starts.

to sell tickets. Promote it more. Draw needs to be done earlier to make ticket sales easier.

endabob1

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

to sell tickets. Promote it more. Draw needs to be done earlier to make ticket sales easier.

Is that the genuine reason?
The open sale was a year in advance last time out, I know there were some sales prior to that I am guessing through the supporters clubs but 2 years....
Even a year out would make some sense, but this far in advance seems madness to me (from a competition point of view anyway). I guess it'll be a harder sell in Japan than it might have been in England but would expect a fair amount of Kiwi's & Aussies will travel

thomond2006

endabob1 wrote: »

Is that the genuine reason?
The open sale was a year in advance last time out, I know there were some sales prior to that I am guessing through the supporters clubs but 2 years....
Even a year out would make some sense, but this far in advance seems madness to me (from a competition point of view anyway). I guess it'll be a harder sell in Japan than it might have been in England but would expect a fair amount of Kiwi's & Aussies will travel

A lot more people will have to travel from afar versus England 2015.

The Lost Sheep

endabob1 wrote:

Is that the genuine reason? The open sale was a year in advance last time out, I know there were some sales prior to that I am guessing through the supporters clubs but 2 years.... Even a year out would make some sense, but this far in advance seems madness to me (from a competition point of view anyway). I guess it'll be a harder sell in Japan than it might have been in England but would expect a fair amount of Kiwi's & Aussies will travel

much harder sell this time round and new Zealand/Australia are still a considerable distance from Japan. No day trippers like last time in 2015. Why is it madness selling this early though? What problems are created from doing this?

swiwi_

shuffol wrote: »

New Zealand in particular have a very handy route to the semi's assuming we top our group, they could arrive there a bit undercooked. A lot depends on SA trajectory over the next 2 years but they'll walk their group and will likely be playing sides resting up for group decider/QF against us. Then a QF against Scotland/Japan won't provide too much competition.

Nothing beats friggin 2007:

Lounging on the Corsican coast + Italy (76-14) + Portugal (108-13) + Scotland B - the cowards (40-0) + Romania (85-8) = defeat to France in Cardiff.

See I didn't even mention Wayne Barnes.

Buer

swiwi_ wrote: »

Scotland B - the cowards (40-0)

Christ, I forgot about that. Absolute embarrassment. The game was in Murrayfield too!

It's not a wonder Frank Hadden hasn't coached anywhere notable since.

endabob1

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

much harder sell this time round and new Zealand/Australia are still a considerable distance from Japan. No day trippers like last time in 2015. Why is it madness selling this early though? What problems are created from doing this?

Actually my issue isn't with the tickets per se, it's really why the draw is so far in advance and based on the seeding from 2 and a half years before the competition starts. The reasoning behind this was that the draw needs to made over 2 years in advance to sell tickets.
So would the solution would be to sell tickets in advance before the draw, (which is what happens in the football world cup) and hold back a percentage to sell to the countries involved? Or are RWC thinking that they need the big names allocated early to put bums on seats??
I was in Oz for the 2003 RWC when Ireland Australia & Argentina were in the same pool, all 3 teams ranked in the top 7 in the world at the start of the tournament, it does seem to always throw up one stupid group.

irishbucsfan

endabob1 wrote: »

Actually my issue isn't with the tickets per se, it's really why the draw is so far in advance and based on the seeding from 2 and a half years before the competition starts. The reasoning behind this was that the draw needs to made over 2 years in advance to sell tickets.
So would the solution would be to sell tickets in advance before the draw, (which is what happens in the football world cup) and hold back a percentage to sell to the countries involved? Or are RWC thinking that they need the big names allocated early to put bums on seats??
I was in Oz for the 2003 RWC when Ireland Australia & Argentina were in the same pool, all 3 teams ranked in the top 7 in the world at the start of the tournament, it does seem to always throw up one stupid group.

They've actually moved the draw closer to the competition. It used to be earlier.

Podge_irl

endabob1 wrote: »

So would the solution would be to sell tickets in advance before the draw, (which is what happens in the football world cup) and hold back a percentage to sell to the countries involved? Or are RWC thinking that they need the big names allocated early to put bums on seats??

Yeah, but rugby ain't football and never will be.

Is that actually what they do in the football world cup? Because I would never buy a ticket unless I knew who was playing (knock-outs aside)

thomond2006

Buer wrote: »

Christ, I forgot about that. Absolute embarrassment. The game was in Murrayfield too!

It's not a wonder Frank Hadden hasn't coached anywhere notable since.

Remind me, what was the idea there? It's not as if you can't rest players against the minnow teams. Why throw a game against NZ?

Buer

thomond2006 wrote: »

Remind me, what was the idea there? It's not as if you can't rest players against the minnow teams. Why throw a game against NZ?

They saw it as playing for second place.

They had negotiated for a couple of games in Edinburgh and they chose the NZ game. Hadden put out an entirely second string team and they were beaten out the gate, 40-0 at home as they wanted to focus on securing second place.

They played Italy in the final game the following week and scraped a win. It was a farce.

sydthebeat

thomond2006 wrote: »

Remind me, what was the idea there? It's not as if you can't rest players against the minnow teams. Why throw a game against NZ?

well it was borne out to be a good decision as they went on to beat a good italian side by 2 points and secure second place in the pool.

swiwi_

Buer wrote: »

Christ, I forgot about that. Absolute embarrassment. The game was in Murrayfield too!

It's not a wonder Frank Hadden hasn't coached anywhere notable since.

It was such a wimpy thing to do. They basically conceded defeat by resting their A team in order to be better prepared for their quarter final. Which they lost of course.

I struggle to think of any other tier one side which would start a RWC pool game having already openly admitted defeat.

It has been shown multiple times that upsets are absolutely possible in the RWC.

Riskymove

swiwi_ wrote: »

I struggle to think of any other tier one side which would start a RWC pool game having already openly admitted defeat.

interesting view

Do NZ never rest first team players in pool games? I would have thought it was a fairly common approach

aloooof

Riskymove wrote: »

interesting view

Do NZ never rest first team players in pool games? I would have thought it was a fairly common approach

When was the last time NZ lost a pool game?

endabob1

Podge_irl wrote: »

Yeah, but rugby ain't football and never will be.

Is that actually what they do in the football world cup? Because I would never buy a ticket unless I knew who was playing (knock-outs aside)

I was in SA for 2010 and bought tickets in the first ballot when you had no idea who you would get. They sold them locally not quite 2 years in advance but close enough I guess, I can't remember exactly when.
When the draw was made for the finals which would have been 6 months out, they released another batch, but the bulk of the tickets at this point were long gone.

I do understand the advance ticket sales idea, I just think there must be a better way of determining the draw a bit closer to the actual event.

Podge_irl

endabob1 wrote: »

I do understand the advance ticket sales idea, I just think there must be a better way of determining the draw a bit closer to the actual event.

Quite possibly, but to be honest I would want to start planning my trip a year out and I would want to know I had access to Ireland game tickets at that point.

Buer

Riskymove wrote: »

interesting view

Do NZ never rest first team players in pool games? I would have thought it was a fairly common approach

Big difference in resting players as you know you're going to win anyway and resting players and essentially throwing the game....in front of your own fans in the RWC.

ArmaniJeanss

endabob1 wrote: »

Is that the genuine reason?
The open sale was a year in advance last time out, I know there were some sales prior to that I am guessing through the supporters clubs but 2 years....
Even a year out would make some sense, but this far in advance seems madness to me (from a competition point of view anyway).

A year out would be next to impossible.
From today they'll spend the next 4/5 months working out the schedule and only then can they start selling tickets. The schedule is quite complex to keep everyone happy, be fair to all teams and fans, take into account ground availability (e.g., the way Wembley was only available for the first 8 days of the 2015 comp), tv company demands for the more interesting games to be spread over the 4 weekends, package holiday requirements, lots of other stuff.
Only then can a hard core ticket selling campaign begin.

jmayo

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

A year out would be next to impossible.
From today they'll spend the next 4/5 months working out the schedule and only then can they start selling tickets. The schedule is quite complex to keep everyone happy, be fair to all teams and fans, ...

Actually a bone of contention for weaker teams is that the schedule isn't fair to the smaller teams who usually get less time between games to suit the higher profile teams.

I seem to remember Georgia playing games 4 and 5 days apart whereas other teams got 6 and 7.