Premier League player of the year?

marklazarcovic

moses

Liam O

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Does Andersonisgod hate defending? Of course not, that'd be ludicrous, especially when 2 of my top 5 favourite ever players includes Sergio Busquets and Gerard Pique.

Does defending require a variety of skills to do effectively? Of course it does.

Am I saying that we should not appreciate defensive players? I say we celebrate the great defenders of the game.

Am I saying that there's a reason attackers cost comparatively more than defenders? Yes.

Am I saying that to be one of the great technical wizards of the game, which Hazard certainly is, requires more skill and a type of genius than that which the hard-running Kante possesses? I am

Am I saying that a culture that will celebrate a player whose main assets are stamina, power and graft over technical genius, imagination and quickness of thought is a football culture that lags behind its continental counterparts? I am.

I'd like to see this Chelsea team managed by Conte in the CL atm. I think it would match up quite well to it's continental counterparts tbh.

They'd have gotten further than Pep's score more approach managed to yield.

Andersonisgod

Liam O wrote: »

I'd like to see this Chelsea team managed by Conte in the CL atm. I think it would match up quite well to it's continental counterparts tbh.

They'd have gotten further than Pep's score more approach managed to yield.

Literally not the slightest clue what that has to do with my comment given that nobody is talking about Guardiola, or any City player. Given that I've already expeessed my admiration for defensive players and given that the two players I'm talking about both play for Chelsea and neither play for Man City. I wonder why you are trying to veer me onto an entirely different conversation?

Pete Moss

Not to totally derail the thread, but considering some of the players playing in 'lesser teams' in the league, rather than the typical headline grabbers playing for the top teams, the following have stood out for me.

I think Tom Heaton has had another really good season for Burnley. They're away form has been considerably poor, but he's salvaged some vital points for them over the season thus far.

Gylfi Sigurdsson has again proved essential to Swansea's attempt at survival. Probably the only player to churn out some decent performances under all three of Swansea's coaches this season and has looked rejuvenated under Clement.

Jermain Defoe has tailed off recently in terms of scoring, but still looks quite dangerous and his goal contribution throughout the season in a lacklustre Sunderland team which seems devoid of any creativity has been pretty remarkable. Regardless of Sunderland staying up or going down, I'd like to see him move to another Premiership club next season which has a bit more spark.

Also, shout out to Joe Allen who has carried on the work rate and energy he displayed during the Euros for Wales.

CantGetNoSleep

Joe Allen has done nothing for months

Shanotheslayer

Liam O wrote: »

I'd like to see this Chelsea team managed by Conte in the CL atm. I think it would match up quite well to it's continental counterparts tbh.

They'd have gotten further than Pep's score more approach managed to yield.

Talk about baiting holy jaysus.

GavRedKing

Liam O wrote: »

I'd like to see this Chelsea team managed by Conte in the CL atm. I think it would match up quite well to it's continental counterparts tbh.

They'd have gotten further than Pep's score more approach managed to yield.

Well we wouldnt have shipped 6 goals over 2 legs, that would 100% help anyway.

greendom

Anyone arguing that Kante should not be player of the season should take a look at how both Chelsea and Leicester have changed since he moved from one to the other. He made Morgan and Huth look World class last season and now they are back to being ordinary Premier League central defenders.

Likewise Cahill and Co were a bit of a mess last year and now they have the best defence in the league. Of course other factors were/are at play but I would argue that Kante is the most important one.

Pete Moss

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Joe Allen has done nothing for months

Nothing as in?? Scoring? Assisting? That's hardly his game. He fits the mould of someone who keeps play ticking over and retains possession. I'm not making comparisons to Kroos or Xavi, but he's performed well in a mediocre Stoke side and shown signs of how he impressed during his time at Swansea.

Iused2likebusts

Pete Moss wrote: »

Not to totally derail the thread, but considering some of the players playing in 'lesser teams' in the league, rather than the typical headline grabbers playing for the top teams, the following have stood out for me.

I think Tom Heaton has had another really good season for Burnley. They're away form has been considerably poor, but he's salvaged some vital points for them over the season thus far.

Gylfi Sigurdsson has again proved essential to Swansea's attempt at survival. Probably the only player to churn out some decent performances under all three of Swansea's coaches this season and has looked rejuvenated under Clement.

Jermain Defoe has tailed off recently in terms of scoring, but still looks quite dangerous and his goal contribution throughout the season in a lacklustre Sunderland team which seems devoid of any creativity has been pretty remarkable. Regardless of Sunderland staying up or going down, I'd like to see him move to another Premiership club next season which has a bit more spark.

Also, shout out to Joe Allen who has carried on the work rate and energy he displayed during the Euros for Wales.

Agree with you on those 3. Heaton probably deserves to be in the team of the year. Will probably never get a move to a bigger club as he isn't great with the ball at his feet which is ridiculous.

Andersonisgod

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Agree with you on those 3. Heaton probably deserves to be in the team of the year. Will probably never get a move to a bigger club as he isn't great with the ball at his feet which is ridiculous.

If he's good enough he could get a move to a bigger club that don't insist on playing out from the back. Been obvious for years that being able to play from the back was gonna be a big requirement for any keeper wanting to play for the very best clubs.

Iused2likebusts

Andersonisgod wrote: »

If he's good enough he could get a move to a bigger club that don't insist on playing out from the back. Been obvious for years that being able to play from the back was gonna be a big requirement for any keeper wanting to play for the very best clubs.

I think its gone too far the other way a keepers most important requirement is to keep the ball out of the net everything else is a bonus.

Andersonisgod

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

I think its gone too far the other way a keepers most important requirement is to keep the ball out of the net everything else is a bonus.

Of course the keeper should be able to save the ball, control the box, organise and make good decisions. Distribution is as important as those because so many teams now start their attack from a goalkeeper and if the first pass in the move is bad then the move breaks down instantly, most likely in a dangerous area too with your team not in a set shape to defend. For progressive football, the keeper must be able to play and most top clubs find keepers who fit all of those requirements.

CSF

I don't think there's anything wrong with Kante as a choice for POTY this year, although I feel last year would have been more appropriate to win it. I felt he was better last year.

Sanchez the winner for me. A truly magical player who has absolutely lit up the league with his form this year. God knows where Arsenal would have been this year without him.

Iused2likebusts

CSF wrote: »

I don't think there's anything wrong with Kante as a choice for POTY this year, although I feel last year would have been more appropriate to win it. I felt he was better last year.

Sanchez the winner for me. A truly magical player who has absolutely lit up the league with his form this year. God knows where Arsenal would have been this year without him.

Sanchez has probably been the best attacking player in the league. Has had a better season than hazard but won't be under consideration due to league position.

Barr

Kante , head and shoulders above anyone else , best in the business what he does.

I would love to see him acknowledged.

Liam O

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Am I saying that a culture that will celebrate a player whose main assets are stamina, power and graft over technical genius, imagination and quickness of thought is a football culture that lags behind its continental counterparts? I am.

Liam O wrote: »

I'd like to see this Chelsea team managed by Conte in the CL atm. I think it would match up quite well to it's continental counterparts tbh.

They'd have gotten further than Pep's score more approach managed to yield.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Literally not the slightest clue what that has to do with my comment given that nobody is talking about Guardiola, or any City player. Given that I've already expeessed my admiration for defensive players and given that the two players I'm talking about both play for Chelsea and neither play for Man City. I wonder why you are trying to veer me onto an entirely different conversation?

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Talk about baiting holy jaysus.

Not sure why you lads choose to ignore his talking about how the PL is lagging behind in Europe despite the best team in the league not being given the chance this season to play in the CL playing a game based around stamina, graft and power can somehow be construed as changing the conversation drastically...

CantGetNoSleep

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Sanchez has probably been the best attacking player in the league. Has had a better season than hazard but won't be under consideration due to league position.

The problem of Sanchez is that all year he has been a whiny little b1tch, acting as if he is too good for his team. Yes he might be their best player at the moment, but he got kicked out of Barcelona for being a nobody, and was happy to take Arsenal's money at the time.

Andersonisgod

Liam O wrote: »

Not sure why you lads choose to ignore his talking about how the PL is lagging behind in Europe despite the best team in the league not being given the chance this season to play in the CL playing a game based around stamina, graft and power can somehow be construed as changing the conversation drastically...

I was making a point about Kante (PL player of the year nominee) compared to Hazard (PL player of the year nominee) and how the culture in which the PL player of the year award (topic of the thread) takes place has a huge bearing on the result, and how the result of the PL player of the year award (topic of the thread) reflects the culture in which the award takes place. I can't imagine being not only more on topic but actually doing you the service of creating an interesting debate based on the topic.

What you were doing however was very obvious and not all too machievelian at all.

Liam O

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I was making a point about Kante (PL player of the year nominee) compared to Hazard (PL player of the year nominee) and how the culture in which the PL player of the year award (topic of the thread) takes place has a huge bearing on the result, and how the result of the PL player of the year award (topic of the thread) reflects the culture in which the award takes place. I can't imagine being not only more on topic but actually doing you the service of creating an interesting debate based on the topic.

What you were doing however was very obvious and not all too machievelian at all.

So in other words you were talking pointless bollox about culture of awards being a yardstick somehow for quality of a footballing culture? Interesting indeed.

Anyway there are far fewer players like Kante in the world of football than there is Hazards. I can't really think of anyone at his level doing what he does in midfield. None at any of the big clubs in England anyway. Whereas Hazard while being absolutely a great player is he that much different in style or ability to the likes of Sanchez, Mkhitaryan, Mahrez or Mane to name a few just from the PL?

Andersonisgod

Liam O wrote: »

So in other words you were talking pointless bollox about culture of awards being a yardstick somehow for quality of a footballing culture? Interesting indeed.

Anyway there are far fewer players like Kante in the world of football than there is Hazards. I can't really think of anyone at his level doing what he does in midfield. None at any of the big clubs in England anyway. Whereas Hazard while being absolutely a great player is he that much different in style or ability to the likes of Sanchez, Mkhitaryan, Mahrez or Mane to name a few just from the PL?

You got called on what you were doing, deal with it.

On topic(!) that's such a ludicrous statement to make. There's loads of Kantes, are they all as good at doing what Kante does as Kante himself is? Nope. You could go through each PL squad and find at least 2 or 3 players in the mould of a Kante. Are there also attacking players playing in the same position as Hazard? Sure there are, though I suspect very few with the skillset of Hazard. And of course you need the workhorses or else the whole thing breaks down, you need the Makelele's to do the dirty work for the Zidane's or the Lampard's of the world, you need the Busquet's to do the dirty work for the Messi's or the Neymar's of the world, you need the Kante's to do the dirty work for the Hazard's of the world and you can appreciate their contribution but it's the skilled players that make the difference, the skilled players that will always be prized more highly because, when you break it down to it's most basic layer, it's easier to run around a lot than it is to create, it's easier to work hard than it is to display genius. You don't like it, hell nobody on this Board will like it but all the great players you talk about and you treasure all had a Kante doing the ugly side of the game for them, but it's Pele, Maradona, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Zidane Ronaldinho and Messi that are remembered and are prized.

So ye, my pick is Hazard.

Arghus

Andersonisgod wrote: »

You got called on what you were doing, deal with it.

On topic(!) that's such a ludicrous statement to make. There's loads of Kantes, are they all as good at doing what Kante does as Kante himself is? Nope...

So there's "loads" of Kantes, but very few, perhaps none at this present moment, are as good as doing what he does as he is? Surely, that means he's actually an exceedingly rare player, no?

Andersonisgod

Arghus wrote: »

So there's "loads" of Kantes, but very few, perhaps none at this present moment, are as good as doing what he does as he is? Surely, that means he's actually an exceedingly rare player, no?

Not really. I like Kante, he's very good at running around and tackling. Hazard's skills are more rare and should be more valued.

Arghus

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Not really. I like Kante, he's very good at running around and tackling. Hazard's skills are more rare and should be more valued.

Hazard won the award two years ago, I think he's valued quite highly.

Since 2000 the only non attacking players to pick up either of the two main awards have been John Terry in 2005 and Scott Parker in 2011. I don't think the argument that creativity goes largely unacknowledged in British football culture - at least in terms of individual awards - stands up to much scrutiny, frankly

Liam O

Andersonisgod wrote: »

You got called on what you were doing, deal with it.

On topic(!) that's such a ludicrous statement to make. There's loads of Kantes, are they all as good at doing what Kante does as Kante himself is? Nope. You could go through each PL squad and find at least 2 or 3 players in the mould of a Kante. Are there also attacking players playing in the same position as Hazard? Sure there are, though I suspect very few with the skillset of Hazard. And of course you need the workhorses or else the whole thing breaks down, you need the Makelele's to do the dirty work for the Zidane's or the Lampard's of the world, you need the Busquet's to do the dirty work for the Messi's or the Neymar's of the world, you need the Kante's to do the dirty work for the Hazard's of the world and you can appreciate their contribution but it's the skilled players that make the difference, the skilled players that will always be prized more highly because, when you break it down to it's most basic layer, it's easier to run around a lot than it is to create, it's easier to work hard than it is to display genius. You don't like it, hell nobody on this Board will like it but all the great players you talk about and you treasure all had a Kante doing the ugly side of the game for them, but it's Pele, Maradona, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Zidane Ronaldinho and Messi that are remembered and are prized.

So ye, my pick is Hazard.

Loads of Kantes? He won the league with Leicester fúcking City. That's the basic layer. There are countless great defenders and midfielders who are remembered. The players you mention have the stylish job and have the most aesthetic skills, that's why they are remembered. Does that mean the Cannavaros, Keanes, Xavis ( ), Nestas, etc. aren't as important to their teams as those players? Ronaldinho and Roy Keane are my 2 favourite players of my lifetime. Are you going to tell me that what Ronaldinho did in 2006 was more important than what Keane did in 1999? Or what Vidic or Ferdinand did in 2008 was somehow less important on an individual level than Ronaldo.

The reason I brought up Conte's Chelsea and Pep's City earlier was to show that there are 2 sides of the coin. Not every great team has a world class attack or a world class defence. Individuals should be rewarded if they have been exceptional regardless of their style.