€300M Investment into Waterford City

Harry Palmr

Do we know if the intention is to build in distinct phases or as a whole? Logistically and financially you'd imagine staged build is the more sensible.

BBM77

imacman wrote: »

There has to be major question marks about it in the current form .As previously discussed the slow death of retail and the current movement to working from home which is leading to reduction of the demand for office space are major threats to its viability. Add to this inevitable recession thats coming post covid which is going to reduce the demand for all retail, office and residential spaces.
Maybe it needs to be a staged build where parts of the project are developed over a longer period of time based on market demand .Otherwise there is a real risk of going into white elephant territory here.

The problem with this argument is it has no creditability. People have been coming on here proclaiming to know the north quays project is unviable long before COVID-19. If COVID-19 had not happened they would have some other reason. Yet it has gotten past the planning stage and some work has already started.

Max Powers

Wanderer78 wrote: »

so doing what we ve been doing for the last few decades, encouraging fdi in, allowing them to pay little tax, forcing the citizens to pay it, and letting them extract the majority of wealth created from their activities here, is gonna work?

some small start ups are realising this, some operating here in waterford, and are addressing it by part paying new young recruits with stock options as soon as they start, theyre realising a large proportion of the wealth of their business is in its stocks and shares, and realise its best to share more equally amongst its employees

More tangents.
I'm happy FDI is here, without it we'd be up the creek. Maybe they could pay more taxes, maybe they could go elsewhere too. Again, this is more easy/fanciful/no consequences stuff best left in economic articles or indeed populist politicians and taken with a bucket of salt.
Small start ups are irrelevant here, best of luck to start ups that do stock issues, great idea.you'll find many old, established companies have been doing same for decades.

Max Powers

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Do we know if the intention is to build in distinct phases or as a whole? Logistically and financially you'd imagine staged build is the more sensible.

All big projects of similar scale, location are staged.

Gavlor

imacman wrote: »

There has to be major question marks about it in the current form .As previously discussed the slow death of retail and the current movement to working from home which is leading to reduction of the demand for office space are major threats to its viability. Add to this inevitable recession thats coming post covid which is going to reduce the demand for all retail, office and residential spaces.
Maybe it needs to be a staged build where parts of the project are developed over a longer period of time based on market demand .Otherwise there is a real risk of going into white elephant territory here.

Given the scale and location it’s hard to see it becoming a white elephant. I know people quite Ferrybank but that’s not within walking distance of the city nor is it of a significant scale that would appeal to shoppers/businesses etc.

Gardner

Still cant see this project going ahead. Few major projects in Cork being put on hold including upgrade of Mahon Point, City Gate Plaza, Sextant Tower, The Prism, Horgans Quay next phase and Custom House upon approval of planning just to name a few.

imacman

BBM77 wrote: »

The problem with this argument is it has no creditability. People have been coming on here proclaiming to know the north quays project is unviable long before COVID-19. If COVID-19 had not happened they would have some other reason. Yet it has gotten past the planning stage and some work has already started.

So are you saying the covid affect on the economy are going to have no implications on this development. I find the blind optimism about this project in Waterford very strange.As a country we have been here before , large developments that were started in 2008/09 which be over ambitious and not viable when the recession hit .Lets learn from the past and not make the same mistakes again.

hardybuck

imacman wrote: »

So are you saying the covid affect on the economy are going to have no implications on this development. I find the blind optimism about this project in Waterford very strange.As a country we have been here before , large developments that were started in 2008/09 which be over ambitious and not viable when the recession hit .Lets learn from the past and not make the same mistakes again.

Perhaps Mary Roche should ask the Council to review the project with a view towards turning it into a public park!

Aquos76

Lads, if ye want to start a thread about the housing market in Waterford, by all means do, but can ye let the discussion lie now in here and let’s get back on topic.

hardybuck

According to the North Quays project website one of the key visions for the NQP is to create a sustainable, compact extension to the City Centre, which will act as a regeneration catalyst for the City and the region.

As we sit in the worst depression in global history, I think discussion is now focusing on the fact that this mightn't be the case, and there are concerns that this project could be a total white elephant that will be counterproductive to the future development of the City.

I would be cautiously optimistic regarding the current Council leadership (officials rather than Councillors) who will hopefully take the necessary steps to make sure the risks of this project to the City are mitigated.

BBM77

imacman wrote: »

So are you saying the covid affect on the economy are going to have no implications on this development. I find the blind optimism about this project in Waterford very strange.As a country we have been here before , large developments that were started in 2008/09 which be over ambitious and not viable when the recession hit .Lets learn from the past and not make the same mistakes again.

I didn’t say that, you know what I meant. The fact of the matter is some people come on here seem to get off on saying the north quays won’t happen. Another fail scenario, COVID-19 or no COVID-19, hardly has much creditability at this stage. Of course there will be changes to the development. Rob Cass has already said the retail will most likely be reduced.

alta stare

imacman wrote: »

So are you saying the covid affect on the economy are going to have no implications on this development. I find the blind optimism about this project in Waterford very strange.As a country we have been here before , large developments that were started in 2008/09 which be over ambitious and not viable when the recession hit .Lets learn from the past and not make the same mistakes again.

Trust me you are wasting your time. No matter what you say you will be shot down by people who will endlessly suggest you are being negative and the likes. Blind optimism or not some people on here just cant accept this might not go ahead no matter what else is happening around the world. I wonder is it because they may seem to think Rob Cass and his pals are immune to a financial crash.

Harry Palmr

Every day this is less likely to not being going ahead, can you at least acknowledge that much?

Johnboy1951

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Every day this is less likely to not being going ahead, can you at least acknowledge that much?

I don't see how counting days has anything to do with it being progressed or not ....... unless you have some insider information you are not sharing?

alta stare

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Every day this is less likely to not being going ahead, can you at least acknowledge that much?

It might go ahead alright but what happens if it doesnt get finished? Just a hypothetical question is all and you can at least acknowledge that is a possibility.

Harry Palmr

Christ,this lot are not a twopenny operation. They won't suddenly run out of money or interest. If they start they'll finish at least phase one and I expect there will be legally enforceable clauses with regards to leaving the zone as a whole ready for further future development.

BBM77

alta stare wrote: »

Trust me you are wasting your time. No matter what you say you will be shot down by people who will endlessly suggest you are being negative and the likes. Blind optimism or not some people on here just cant accept this might not go ahead no matter what else is happening around the world. I wonder is it because they may seem to think Rob Cass and his pals are immune to a financial crash.

For god sake the developer has done everything they said they would do. There is full planning permission now and some work has started. How is that blind optimism? You know not everybody feels the need to be miserable and down-trodden about every proposed project.

Deiseen

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Christ,this lot are not a twopenny operation. They won't suddenly run out of money or interest. If they start they'll finish at least phase one and I expect there will be legally enforceable clauses with regards to leaving the zone as a whole ready for further future development.

I don't think any of us are blindly optimistic or blindly supportive of the project. Cautiously optimistic maybe?

As you said, the developers/Rob Cass have done everything asked of them but some of the negative people here are like broken records and haven't changed their tune as the song has progressed.

Alta Stare seems to have a particular vendetta against Rob (maybe there's history there) and the impression I get is that he would be happy for the development to fail, just so he can say that Rob failed.

Pretty sick to desire a poor outcome for a project that might actually be able to lift your city/county/region up to a comparable level to the other cities in the country. But hey as long as Rob has egg on his face!

vriesmays

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Every day this is less likely to not being going ahead, can you at least acknowledge that much?

It will never go ahead. Small town thinking big syndrome.

alta stare

BBM77 wrote: »

For god sake the developer has done everything they said they would do. There is full planning permission now and some work has started. How is that blind optimism? You know not everybody feels the need to be miserable and down-trodden about every proposed project.

Yeah and good for them. They can build it for sure and i hope they do but lets be real it can still run in to difficulty. Would i like to see that happen....no but can i voice my opinion that it could happen....yes.

alta stare

Deiseen wrote: »

I don't think any of us are blindly optimistic or blindly supportive of the project. Cautiously optimistic maybe?

As you said, the developers/Rob Cass have done everything asked of them but some of the negative people here are like broken records and haven't changed their tune as the song has progressed.

Alta Stare seems to have a particular vendetta against Rob (maybe there's history there) and the impression I get is that he would be happy for the development to fail, just so he can say that Rob failed.

Pretty sick to desire a poor outcome for a project that might actually be able to lift your city/county/region up to a comparable level to the other cities in the country. But hey as long as Rob has egg on his face!

My god you are getting worse than Max.

Yes some of ye are blindly optimistic and anyone who says anything untoward this project gets shot down. Again i support this project i just dont believe everything i see or read....unlike some of ye.

Do i have a vendetta against Rob? No. Iv explained my reasons for my opinion on him a million times at this rate...just because you choose to ignore that is no fault of mine. I get it...you are a fanboy and that is ok.

A sick desire.....jesus some of ye just cant help yourselves.

Now can you please point out where i myself have said i hope it fails......i will patiently wait for your evidence. I bet you will come up with nothing and you will do so as i have not once said i hope it fails. Now be a grown up and stop making things up just because it makes you feel better about yourself.

BBM77

alta stare wrote: »

Yeah and good for them. They can build it for sure and i hope they do but lets be real it can still run in to difficulty. Would i like to see that happen....no but can i voice my opinion that it could happen....yes.

You make statements like

alta stare wrote: »

…this might not go ahead no matter what else is happening around the world...

So boom or bust this is not going to happen according to you! Even though all the signs at the moment are it is happening. Then you get touchy because people call you pessimistic!

alta stare

BBM77 wrote: »

You make statements like



So boom or bust this is not going to happen according to you! Even though all the signs at the moment are it is happening. Then you get touchy because people call you pessimistic!

So have a re read of it again and do it slowly for you might just catch the bit where i said it "might not happen"....no where have i said i hope it dont happen.....big big difference dont you think?

BBM77

alta stare wrote: »

So have a re read of it again and do it slowly for you might just catch the bit where i said it "might not happen"....no where have i said i hope it dont happen.....big big difference dont you think?

I never said you hoped it won’t happen. I said you and others are being pessimistic and ignoring the reality of the progress made. The Wikipedia definition of pessimism is “Pessimism is a negative mental attitude in which an undesirable outcome is anticipated from a given situation.” If the statement “this might not go ahead no matter what else is happening around the world” does not fit that definition I don’t know what does.

alta stare

BBM77 wrote: »

I never said you hoped it won’t happen. I said you and others are being pessimistic and ignoring the reality of the progress made. The Wikipedia definition of pessimism is “Pessimism is a negative mental attitude in which an undesirable outcome is anticipated from a given situation.” If the statement “this might not go ahead no matter what else is happening around the world” does not fit that definition I don’t know what does.

No i aint ignoring any progress which has been made. Any progress on this is welcome progress. Just because i say it may not happen doesnt mean i dont want it to happen or that i am being pessimistic. If you think quoting things from Wikipedia makes it better for you then fair enough ill do the same only i wont use Wikipedia........accepting things as they are in fact and not making decisions based on unlikely hopes for the future:

Teebor15

alta stare wrote: »

No i aint ignoring any progress which has been made. Any progress on this is welcome progress. Just because i say it may not happen doesnt mean i dont want it to happen or that i am being pessimistic. If you think quoting things from Wikipedia makes it better for you then fair enough ill do the same only i wont use Wikipedia........accepting things as they are in fact and not making decisions based on unlikely hopes for the future:

Put the shovel away!

Max Powers

All that we should be concerned with is the government putting up the money for bridge and train station, both badly needed and potential to unlock hundreds millions more investment. What happens after that, we'll see.

E38E3E38E3EE33

alta stare wrote: »

No i aint ignoring any progress which has been made. Any progress on this is welcome progress. Just because i say it may not happen doesnt mean i dont want it to happen or that i am being pessimistic. If you think quoting things from Wikipedia makes it better for you then fair enough ill do the same only i wont use Wikipedia........accepting things as they are in fact and not making decisions based on unlikely hopes for the future:

A parrot could replace you and no one would notice.

E38E3E38E3EE33

Taoiseach says North Quays has great potential for Waterford

Wanderer78

E38E3E38E3EE33 wrote: »

A parrot could replace you and no one would notice.

the internets does indeed give people the impression they can just bully and vilify others, get on with life lads