€300M Investment into Waterford City

alta stare

Teebor15 wrote: »

Put the shovel away!

Amazing.

alta stare

E38E3E38E3EE33 wrote: »

A parrot could replace you and no one would notice.

Probably. Whilst a donkey could masquerade as you and we would be none the wiser.

Harry Palmr

E38E3E38E3EE33 wrote: »

Taoiseach says North Quays has great potential for Waterford

Well he acknowledged it's existence and that's something I suppose. He is such a wet paper bag of a speaker. If he said it was raining and it was I'd still have to check (off topic). Impossible to draw any inspiration from his words.

Bards

E38E3E38E3EE33 wrote: »

Taoiseach says North Quays has great potential for Waterford

Read... “Great potential but that's all as long as I'm Taoiseach and have 2 senior ministers from Cork too “ Haa ha ha ha ha...

I personally would like to see this succeed as I believe it will be the beginning of something good for the City

gscully

alta stare wrote: »

Probably. Whilst a donkey could masquerade as you and we would be none the wiser.

If I look at this thread and see that there are two pages of updates, I would hope that it's because there has been a development or two and the posts are informative and/or reasoned.

Thank you to those that provide that. Unfortunately a lot of it gets lost in the noise of 'contributors' who just want to see who can shout the loudest. Kindly **** off.

Back on topic, I do hope that the Taoiseach's comments are indicative of a desire to see this project happen and funding be made available. To see cranes on the wharf and barges on the river would be uplifting.

Bhoy1967

gscully wrote: »

If I look at this thread and see that there are two pages of updates, I would hope that it's because there has been a development or two and the posts are informative and/or reasoned.

Thank you to those that provide that. Unfortunately a lot of it gets lost in the noise of 'contributors' who just want to see who can shout the loudest. Kindly **** off.

Back on topic, I do hope that the Taoiseach's comments are indicative of a desire to see this project happen and funding be made available. To see cranes on the wharf and barges on the river would be uplifting.

Couldn't agree more - the amount of BS and off topic **** been spouted by a**holes trying to get a dig or insult in is unbelievable - childish stuff from idiots hiding behind a keyboard with no interest in contributing anything of any value. Down with the begrudgers - lets hope this gets off the ground!!
Rant over:mad:

spaceCreated

gscully wrote: »

To see cranes on the wharf .... would be uplifting.

:pac::pac::pac:

alta stare

gscully wrote: »

If I look at this thread and see that there are two pages of updates, I would hope that it's because there has been a development or two and the posts are informative and/or reasoned.

Thank you to those that provide that. Unfortunately a lot of it gets lost in the noise of 'contributors' who just want to see who can shout the loudest. Kindly **** off.

Back on topic, I do hope that the Taoiseach's comments are indicative of a desire to see this project happen and funding be made available. To see cranes on the wharf and barges on the river would be uplifting.

Do you feel better now? It is amazing how easily people get so wound up by others on the internet. Is yer lives that sad that ye constantly get angry and bitter at complete strangers? Strange people.

Edit: I aint about shouting either i just like being able to express my own opinion. I wont be shut down by people like you, Deiseen, Harry and good ol Max although the latter tends to keep quieter than usual.

alta stare

Bhoy1967 wrote: »

Couldn't agree more - the amount of BS and off topic **** been spouted by a**holes trying to get a dig or insult in is unbelievable - childish stuff from idiots hiding behind a keyboard with no interest in contributing anything of any value. Down with the begrudgers - lets hope this gets off the ground!!
Rant over:mad:

Childish idiots behind a keyboard......you could be directing that at loads of fools here. Be a man and at least say who you mean.

Christy Browne

alta stare wrote: »

Childish idiots behind a keyboard......you could be directing that at loads of fools here. Be a man and at least say who you mean.

Embarrassing, grow up ffs.

alta stare

Christy Browne wrote: »

Embarrassing, grow up ffs.

Is it? Ok if you say so. Im allowed be attacked by idiots yet im being told to grow up

How about having a reasonable response and not the usual ****e ye go on with just like you have just done. Is it too hard for ye to do or something?

Teebor15

Thread has gone to the dogs!!!

Aquos76

I agree, I really don’t want to close it, but it’s looking increasing likely that I’ll have to close it unless all this bull**** stops now. Yes there are some who want it to fail and others who are convinced it will happen, but it’s getting to personal now. Either ye all cut out the bickering of the thread gets locked.

Dexpat

Aquos76 wrote: »

I agree, I really don’t want to close it, but it’s looking increasing likely that I’ll have to close it unless all this bull**** stops now. Yes there are some who want it to fail and others who are convinced it will happen, but it’s getting to personal now. Either ye all cut out the bickering of the thread gets locked.

Lads/lassies this is the internet aren't we all meant to get along! Would be a pity to close it.

Hopefully getting back on track. I've always been very supportive of this. I appreciate that there are risks with it, but the way things were done in the past clearly are not working for Waterford. It needs to have a critical mass to be successful in its aim of drawing people in from the region. A smaller north quays scheme paradoxically would probably have a more detrimental affect on the city centre. It could dilute the current amount of spending without bringing in much extra business.

The development now has the potential to create a new more dynamic city centre and to be a big draw for the SE region. It could actually now be more viable as a result of the changing work environment as a result of the pandemic. I know of a few people with very high paying jobs who have been told that their Dublin offices won't be open for the forseeable future and as a result have decided to return to live in Waterford and work from there.

If this goes ahead the existing city centre will change but this is happening anyway. There will probably be less retail but an opportunity for more cafes, restaurants etc. It is generally an attractive environment already with the improvements to the urban realm including pedestrianisation in the last few years. We can really capitalise on that.

As I said, it's time to take risks and be bold, otherwise I wouldn't like to see what the place will be like in a few years.

The big problem obviously is the government funding. I'd be very worried once the s**t hits the fan when it comes to the budget, it will again be put on the long finger or it will receive a drip drip of money to just about keep it alive. The next two months are critical.

I can't fault the developers or the council for their efforts they are have done what is required to get it this far and like the rest of us are waiting for proper government funding commitments.

Bhoy1967

alta stare wrote: »

Childish idiots behind a keyboard......you could be directing that at loads of fools here. Be a man and at least say who you mean.

That post just sums up what I was getting at :rolleyes:

robcass78

It's now 400m so maybe I create a new thread, that has a tighter brief; PROMOTE THE POSITIVES: THOSE WHO ACTUALLY WANT TO SEE WATERFORD & SOUTH EAST DEVELOP, WITH IDEAS ON HOW WE PROMOTE & GROW THE CITY, COUNTY & REGION.

Here's some facts for those who want to actually want to promote Waterford & South East, which is the basis of investment; 1. chronic undersupply opportunity due to lack of historical private investment & 2. Growth outlook for the long-term.

https://waterfordnorthquays.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Waterford_2040_Rikon_Report_Digital_AW.pdf

Wanderer78

robcass78 wrote: »

It's now 400m so maybe I create a new thread, that has a tighter brief; PROMOTE THE POSITIVES: THOSE WHO ACTUALLY WANT TO SEE WATERFORD & SOUTH EAST DEVELOP, WITH IDEAS ON HOW WE PROMOTE & GROW THE CITY, COUNTY & REGION.

Here's some facts for those who want to actually want to promote Waterford & South East, which is the basis of investment; 1. chronic undersupply opportunity due to lack of historical private investment & 2. Growth outlook for the long-term.

https://waterfordnorthquays.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Waterford_2040_Rikon_Report_Digital_AW.pdf

what about the negatives or potential negatives in this development, rarely, if ever do such economic activities create a win win for all?

azimuth17

Wanderer78 wrote: »

what about the negatives or potential negatives in this development, rarely, if ever do such economic activities create a win win for all?

Your posts on economic theory are on many thread's on this forum and are in general, dense, not clear or well expressed, although you may mean well. Why don't you simply open a Wanderer 78 economic view thread on this forum to enable those with a little less interest in economic theory than yourself to follow other threads without delving into Economics 101?

And while you are at it, have a read about Joseph Schumpeter's "creative destruction", it might keep you busy for a while.

Wanderer78

azimuth17 wrote: »

Your posts on economic theory are on many thread's on this forum and are in general, dense, not clear or well expressed, although you may mean well. Why don't you simply open a Wanderer 78 economic view thread on this forum to enable those with a little less interest in economic theory than yourself to follow other threads without delving into Economics 101?

And while you are at it, have a read about Joseph Schumpeter's "creative destruction", it might keep you busy for a while.

okay, reality check, how many parents and grandparents are reading this and watching their kids and grandkids futures becoming more uncertain, particularly in relation to housing and accommodation? how many of those kids and grandkids are now virtually stuck in the family home and rental sector unable to get access to the housing market? go on now, put your hands up!

you re all very quick to lambaste others easily on the internets!

oh bare in mind, mr cass has effectively admitted to believe there are negatives to this project!

azimuth17

Wanderer78 wrote: »

okay, reality check, how many parents and grandparents are reading this and watching their kids and grandkids futures becoming more uncertain, particularly in relation to housing and accommodation? how many of those kids and grandkids are now virtually stuck in the family home and rental sector unable to get access to the housing market? go on now, put your hands up!

you re all very quick to lambaste others easily on the internets!

oh bare in mind, mr cass has effectively admitted to believe there are negatives to this project!

For the record , I am not lambasting you, I am advising a course of action which might help.

Wanderer78

azimuth17 wrote: »

For the record , I am not lambasting you, I am advising a course of action which might help.

thank you, but i do think this does need to be discussed here, there are always losers in these situations, those losers could very well be your own kids and grandkids. please be aware, im not personally attacking rob here, i actually think the guy is extremely genuine, and wants the best for the region, and i want to thank him, this project is truly astonishing. but we need to be careful, theres many factors at play here, that could turn the whole thing upside down, not only for us the citizens, but for the investors also, we need fdi, we will always probably need it

mayordenis

Like there are negative with basically everything, nothing new there, completely agree with you.

But try as I might, the positives of this potential development appear to massively outweigh the negatives. I think genuinely connecting Ferrybank to the city centre is a lot bigger than people might expect. If we take the the Spar as our starting point it's about a 20-25 minute walk to town, that will become 5 minutes with a pedestrian bridge. We're talking about adding a suburb that is basically as far out of the city as Ardkeen to the city centre. I'd go further and say that sort of developmental effect is extremely rare.

There is also a cohort that look at the shopping centre in Ferrybank and think that somehow means its pre-determined to fail. We definitely need more accommodation of all sorts, more quality retail and office space, our train station is a kip and out of the city, and the north quays are currently ugly and barren (which isn't as facile as it might sound).

I'm willing to accept that some of my desire for this to happen is rooted in optimism and possibly even a chip on my shoulder about the status of Waterford. But it's hard to justify categorising this development as anything other than a net positive, and a fairly hefty one at that.

Dexpat

Wanderer78 wrote: »

thank you, but i do think this does need to be discussed here, there are always losers in these situations, those losers could very well be your own kids and grandkids. please be aware, im not personally attacking rob here, i actually think the guy is extremely genuine, and wants the best for the region, and i want to thank him, this project is truly astonishing. but we need to be careful, theres many factors at play here, that could turn the whole thing upside down, not only for us the citizens, but for the investors also, we need fdi, we will always probably need it

Fair enough, but I do think people are aware of the risks. I would be completely against this if it was in the suburbs but it is right in the city centre.

Sure, as well as hopefully faciliating high end jobs it will lead to some less well paid jobs such as cleaners and retail. However for a lot of people these can be a lifeline. My mother was a cleaner to help make ends meat and a lot of retail jobs can be fulfilling even if they are not too well paid. It's much better to have those types of jobs than the alternative which is having everyone running around an Amazon warehouse to get online orders out.

I agree that the current system is messed up to put it mildly but it can't be changed in Waterford alone by passing up on these 'capatilist' type of ventures. All we can do is to make sure that what is delivered mitigates any downsides. From an outsider at least this seems to have a decent chance of doing that.

Deiseen

mayordenis wrote: »

Like there are negative with basically everything, nothing new there, completely agree with you.

But try as I might, the positives of this potential development appear to massively outweigh the negatives. I think genuinely connecting Ferrybank to the city centre is a lot bigger than people might expect. If we take the the Spar as our starting point it's about a 20-25 minute walk to town, that will become 5 minutes with a pedestrian bridge. We're talking about adding a suburb that is basically as far out of the city as Ardkeen to the city centre. I'd go further and say that sort of developmental effect is extremely rare.

There is also a cohort that look at the shopping centre in Ferrybank and think that somehow means its pre-determined to fail. We definitely need more accommodation of all sorts, more quality retail and office space, our train station is a kip and out of the city, and the north quays are currently ugly and barren (which isn't as facile as it might sound).

I'm willing to accept that some of my desire for this to happen is rooted in optimism and possibly even a chip on my shoulder about the status of Waterford. But it's hard to justify categorising this development as anything other than a net positive, and a fairly hefty one at that.

I'm with you on the addition of Ferrybank to the city centre. People underestimate the boost this will have.

At the moment the end of town is the quay, it ends there. Theres nowhere to go when walking through john roberts square to the river. With the addition of the pedestrian bridge we are basically extending the main street, eliminating the dead end and I have a feeling this will enliven the town after 5pm when it usually become a dead-zone.

Add the new development into this and as you said, the positives far outweigh the negatives.

friendlyfun

We definitely need this development in the city. The North Side of the city has been ignored for far too long. Not only will it bring thousands of much needed jobs but think of the opportunities for tourism too! It will definitely attract more people to the southeast and solidify its position as the capital of the region. The last shopping centre in the city was built in 1993 ffs, city has to move in 21st century. Too far stuck in the past.

Deiseen

alta stare wrote: »

Do you feel better now? It is amazing how easily people get so wound up by others on the internet. Is yer lives that sad that ye constantly get angry and bitter at complete strangers? Strange people.

Edit: I aint about shouting either i just like being able to express my own opinion. I wont be shut down by people like you, Deiseen, Harry and good ol Max although the latter tends to keep quieter than usual.

If you want to talk about the potential negative effects on the existing city centre, parts where you think the development is lacking, what it has too much/not enough of, what the developers have done wrong so far, the councils shortcomings etc etc then I am totally willing to have that conversation and would enjoy having that conversation.

But your analysis hasn't extended beyond "Rob is a fool and the development will fail" so don't act all enlightened thinking that the rest of us are blind idiots. We know the risks to and from this development but you are far from enhancing the debate in any regard.

Rob is not my cup of tea but as I said, I judge a person by the results they achieve and so far Rob has done everything asked of him. Am I enamored by his personality? No. Could he be responsible for a project that will improve the quality of life for many people in Waterford and beyond? Absolutely and I don't care about his personality as long as he delivers, neither should any of us.

vriesmays

friendlyfun wrote: »

We definitely need this development in the city. The North Side of the city has been ignored for far too long. Not only will it bring thousands of much needed jobs but think of the opportunities for tourism too! It will definitely attract more people to the southeast and solidify its position as the capital of the region. The last shopping centre in the city was built in 1993 ffs, city has to move in 21st century. Too far stuck in the past.

Those jobs won't last long and it will turn into another eyesore to keep Waterford Walls busy. Ireland isn't even in the top 30 countries for tourism and Waterford isn't even in the top 10 counties to visit.

Deiseen

vriesmays wrote: »

Those jobs won't last long and it will turn into another eyesore to keep Waterford Walls busy. Ireland isn't even in the top 30 countries for tourism and Waterford isn't even in the top 10 counties to visit.

Wrong once again. Waterford is 10th based on tourist numbers, level with Donegal.

Donegal is marked 10th and we are 11th due to the higher tourist spend but we are 10th based on numbers.

Proof:

https://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/revealed-the-irish-counties-most-and-least-visited-by-tourists-37236244.html

imacman

imacman wrote: »

I have three real concerns I have about the North Quays as a development.
Number one is the retail element and how reliant is the project on getting large department stores and other retailers to setup there.Is the project a viable entity if that doesn't happen.
As we have seen even before Covid bricks and mortar stores were under pressure and that is only going to increase now. Is a 2 new shopping centers ( im including the Micheal street development which is part of this package) viable in Waterford when you have the city square with a massive unit empty after Debenhams closing and the other large new unit at the front still without an occupant.

Also included in the plans is a massive new cinema , can Wateford sustain three cinema , I dont think so which plays into my other concern which is the division of the city , if the north quays does become a shopping,residental and entertainment destination it can only hurt the city center which is struggling already.

Concern number three is the office space , there has been a lot of talk about how this space is going to draw big companies out of Dublin to setup offices in Waterford. Again pre-covid that may have worked but the move to large scale working from home has changed that whole landscape. I read in the paper last week that many companies in Dublin are downsizing their offices and pulling out of moves to new buildings as they let more people work from home and need less actual space.This is especially prevalent in the IT companies but lots of other sectors are moving that way too.That is a massive threat to the viability of the office space in the development

I dont want to be a downer on the project but these are legitimate concerns especially facing into the inevitable post covid recession .This looks like a boom time project and there are plenty of celtic tiger examples of these types of projects that ran into trouble when the recession hit.It seems to me that Waterord people are so desperate for some investment they are happy to close their eyes and hope for the best when it comes to this project

Nobody has addressed the concerns I mentioned above but it looks like this has become a cheerleader thread for the North Quays where no hard questions about its viability are allowed.

Johnboy1951

vriesmays wrote: »

Those jobs won't last long and it will turn into another eyesore to keep Waterford Walls busy. Ireland isn't even in the top 30 countries for tourism and Waterford isn't even in the top 10 counties to visit.

Where in Waterford can I get ......

a similar device or crystal ball that apparently is used to generate the above?