€300M Investment into Waterford City

Harry Palmr

That should be built regardless of what fills the NQ

Deiseen

Harry Palmr wrote: »

That should be built regardless of what fills the NQ

It should but would it be at this advanced stage without the current plans for the North Quays?

smellyoldboot

cactus jacks wrote: »

Sure there's nothing happening with the project.

https://waterford-news.ie/2020/09/27/design-contract-for-sustainable-transport-bridge-due-to-commence-shortly/#.X3ChT9vhRkw

Weatherspoons have a "coming soon" sign up for years now. It's only talk until they do it.

Wanderer78

Harry Palmr wrote: »

That should be built regardless of what fills the NQ

should it really?

914

Deiseen wrote: »

It should but would it be at this advanced stage without the current plans for the North Quays?

I think irrespective if the NQ's goes ahead the pedestrian bridge will be built.

One way or the other that bridge is badly needed for ferrybank residents.

Deiseen

Wanderer78 wrote: »

should it really?

This is arguably one of the most important parts of the development. So yes, it should be built without question.

Wanderer78

Deiseen wrote:

This is arguably one of the most important parts of the development. So yes, it should be built without question.

The public infrastructure is definitely important, the rest is highly questionable

cactus jacks

Harry Palmr wrote: »

That should be built regardless of what fills the NQ

Yes definitely, but other parts of the project are mentioned in the article and things do seem to be moving a long in the background regardless of what some people on here think. Hopefully we'll start to see some real progress in the next 6 months but obviously it all depends on the government approving the funding.

Deiseen

Wanderer78 wrote: »

The public infrastructure is definitely important, the rest is highly questionable

What, the train station, apartments, hotel, offices and retail?

Wanderer78

Deiseen wrote:

What, the train station, apartments, hotel, offices and retail?

The main reasons for the properties is more than likely for speculative activities, the term 'community', in relation to the funding for the apartments, is highly suspicious, by any chance will the offices be perfectly setup for high level jobs such as call centres, and then there's all the high end retail and service sector jobs that will be created! We need details now, to see what the full story is!

Deiseen

Wanderer78 wrote: »

The main reasons for the properties is more than likely for speculative activities, the term 'community', in relation to the funding for the apartments, is highly suspicious, by any chance will the offices be perfectly setup for high level jobs such as call centres, and then there's all the high end retail and service sector jobs that will be created! We need details now, to see what the full story is!

I'd imagine the offices are set up in a standard office format that would allow anyone to slot in whether they are a call centre or financial company. Why would they design the offices for a call centre and thus limit your appeal to other companies? That would he sheer lunacy.

Deiseen

Wanderer78 wrote: »

The main reasons for the properties is more than likely for speculative activities, the term 'community', in relation to the funding for the apartments, is highly suspicious, by any chance will the offices be perfectly setup for high level jobs such as call centres, and then there's all the high end retail and service sector jobs that will be created! We need details now, to see what the full story is!

Have you actually looked at the plans by the way yet? I really don't think you have and its getting boring listening to the same regurgitated material from you.

You can argue about the need for some elements of the development (I think they are all important) but you think that the restructuring of the entire world needs to begin in Waterford

If you actually read the plans then I am sure you would be happy with what is outlined. Its about as good and sustainable as you'd get anywhere.

Please read them and come back before introducing more irrelevance into this thread.

Wanderer78

Deiseen wrote:

Please read them and come back before introducing more irrelevance into this thread.

Can you please read up on things such as rent seeking behaviour, particularly in relation to the fire sectors (finance, insurance and real estate) and credit creation etc etc, and you will find out why we actually experienced a catastrophic financial crash, not too long ago, and why we are currently experiencing serious problems in some of our most critical of needs, in particular housing and accommodation. These are the fundamentals of why we are experiencing these issues, this is directly affecting your kids and grandkids, particularly in relation to housing and accommodation, and our economically conservative governments are driving this insanity, but they don’t realise the damage they are doing, they're not deliberately doing this, it's just flawed ideology and thinking.

This is a truly astonishing vision for the region, it has the abilities to drag us into the modern era, in so many ways, but with limited information about the fundamentals, deep within the idea, could be a somewhat disturbing reality. we cannot keep effectively giving away critical assets such as land, which is just being used for pure wealth extraction, as we're just lumping more sh1t onto the backs of younger generations, as we have always done.

The reality is, we don't know the full story here, we re not privy to such critical information such as, who the hell bought all the apartments, and what do they intend doing with them? Who the hell has access to such money? With the implementation of such restrictive lending criteria since the last crash, one of the main driving forces of property prices, the availability of credit, still exists, only that average joe and Mary can't get access to this money, but large businesses and investment groups can, and with record low rates, win win, for them! And you d be wondering why we re experiencing increased activities from groups such as vulture funds etc, particularly in relation to property! These groups are effectively monopolising critical markets, such as property, landlords are running out of the market, and average joe and Mary can't even get access to the market, while they're stuck in mammy and daddy's home, or in the rental sector, while their landlord permanently sh1ts the bag, which helps with everyone's security!

Again, the aim of the game is monopolisation and particularly by foreign entities, and they don't truly give a bollcoks about your kids and grandkids. These activities are crushing our largest employers of the state, sme's, out of our most critical of markets, and we re being stripped in the process. this isn't a personal dig at people such as rob cass either, its actually not a personal dig at anyone involved, both direcly and indirectly, we truly do need such visionaries, this is probably the finest proposal I've ever seen for the region, it opens the possibilities for the region, but.....

Irrelevance to the thread, I think not! We re all entitled to our opinions here! And once again, if you don't like others opinions, boards has facilitated your needs, with an ignore function

Asdfgh2020

And what difference will all the info you are listing above make to you or the average person.....do you have the ability or means to change anything at this stage....? I suppose it will give you plenty to debate and complain and moan about on this thread and others

Wanderer78

Asdfgh2020 wrote: »

And what difference will all the info you are listing above make to you or the average person.....do you have the ability or means to change anything at this stage....? I suppose it will give you plenty to debate and complain and moan about on this thread and others

so, we should just sit back, and allow these activities to continue?

Asdfgh2020

Wanderer78 wrote: »

so, we should just sit back, and allow these activities to continue?

Outline what you could/would do with the info.....???

Wanderer78

Asdfgh2020 wrote: »

Outline what you could/would do with the info.....???

theres loads of proposals out there, to try counteract these negatives, my own pick:

- introduce a land value tax

- give all employees from this development, a small extra bonus of stocks and
shares, many are struggling to get access to asset markets, particularly the
property market, having a small investment portfolio might just help give
them access to it, low end workers generally work damn hard anyway, as
those that have experienced the retail and service sectors well know!

- accept a small percentage of local and national business(corporate) taxes as
stocks and shares, utilise wealth funds from here, to invest in critical public
needs, i.e. its a revenue stream, that could last beyond the life of the project

- encourage sectors into the development, that will utilise the office spaces,
that create higher quality jobs that lower end service sectors dont do, calls
centers etc. some start ups realise the dangers of rising wealth inequality
issues in the workplace, including some start ups here in waterford, and are
somewhat counteracting this by giving new recruits shares immediately upon
starting in their positions.

im sure theres plenty of other ideas im aware of, im just too tired to think of them right now, but please add your own

Jamie2k9

If its not included next week it will never happen:

The Government is set to dust off much of the Project 2040 development plan of former Taoiseach Leo Varadkar in order to get Ireland working again.

Major spending on capital works is due to be announced in the Budget next week, despite the paralysing economic effects of Covid-19.

Public Expenditure Minister Michael McGrath confirmed the move yesterday, saying: "We will be increasing our capital investment programme next year because we think it is the right time to invest in infrastructure.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/major-spending-plan-for-capital-works-in-budget-to-boost-jobs-39588184.html

Harry Palmr

Shovel ready!
(shovel the earth on to Waterford's grave if this isn't backed)

Johnboy1951

Given all the cirsumstances present at this time, I cannot see how this project cannot be funded as required and as promised.

If I am wrong then there has to be extremely serious doubts about ALL of our politicians who are elected to run the whole country equally, and not just to keep their own back yard functioning correctly.

Oscar Madison

The petrol station next to the river is being demolished!

At the rate it's going it will be the 22nd century before it's completed if at all!

Harry Palmr

Good to see. Every little helps.

Flow Motion

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

If its not included next week it will never happen:



https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/major-spending-plan-for-capital-works-in-budget-to-boost-jobs-39588184.html

Is anyone forgetting the small matter of the ongoing pandemic which is eating into the public finances?? The Dublin Mafia are highly unlikely to sanction wads of much needed cash to such a project. The pressing needs will be the Health Service, funding the PUP and employment supports etc. The longer the pandemic goes on the higher the budget deficit and the not too unlikely scenario of entering bailout territory once again should things deteriorate over the next year. There is only so much money to go around. And unlike the crash in 08 the whole world is in the same boat this time round. Also there is the small thing of Brexit to consider also. We will all be lucky to be in jobs this time next year!

smellyoldboot

Flow Motion wrote: »

Is anyone forgetting the small matter of the ongoing pandemic which is eating into the public finances?? The Dublin Mafia are highly unlikely to sanction wads of much needed cash to such a project. The pressing needs will be the Health Service, funding the PUP and employment supports etc. The longer the pandemic goes on the higher the budget deficit and the not too unlikely scenario of entering bailout territory once again should things deteriorate over the next year. There is only so much money to go around. And unlike the crash in 08 the whole world is in the same boat this time round. Also there is the small thing of Brexit to consider also. We will all be lucky to be in jobs this time next year!

Best time to spend is during a crash. Enough of this austerity ****e. Buy and buy big when materials, land, labour costs and borrowing rates are going through the floor.

You're right though: Our uber-conservative yes man wouldn't dream of acting in this manner.

Wanderer78

Flow Motion wrote: »

Is anyone forgetting the small matter of the ongoing pandemic which is eating into the public finances?? The Dublin Mafia are highly unlikely to sanction wads of much needed cash to such a project. The pressing needs will be the Health Service, funding the PUP and employment supports etc. The longer the pandemic goes on the higher the budget deficit and the not too unlikely scenario of entering bailout territory once again should things deteriorate over the next year. There is only so much money to go around. And unlike the crash in 08 the whole world is in the same boat this time round. Also there is the small thing of Brexit to consider also. We will all be lucky to be in jobs this time next year!

once again, its important to remember, rising public debt has caused far less economic crashes, and far less serious ones to, rising private debt is truly the major one to watch out for, as we learned once again in 08, i.e. rising deficits arent truly a problem, even the imf is getting in on the game now, recommending governments to take on the debt, to try pull us through this one, and its a far safer option. funnily enough, theres effectively infinite money available, as central banks can never run out of it, but, we need to do that carefully, but since its looking like we re heading into a deflationary period, rare events such as hyperinflation, is very unlikely.

Flow Motion

Wanderer78 wrote: »

once again, its important to remember, rising public debt has caused far less economic crashes, and far less serious ones to, rising private debt is truly the major one to watch out for, as we learned once again in 08, i.e. rising deficits arent truly a problem, even the imf is getting in on the game now, recommending governments to take on the debt, to try pull us through this one, and its a far safer option. funnily enough, theres effectively infinite money available, as central banks can never run out of it, but, we need to do that carefully, but since its looking like we re heading into a deflationary period, rare events such as hyperinflation, is very unlikely.

Sure does seem like at the moment a Govt can borrow an unlimitless amt cash at low rates. However politicians throwing money at problems is as old as politics. However this time they are throwing enormous amounts at an enormous problem in line with other Govt's across the globe. The problem is what if this does not work? There are a few other background things we should be cognisant of, namely Brexit and the US Election, both have the potential to destabilize the world economy.

hardybuck

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Best time to spend is during a crash. Enough of this austerity ****e. Buy and buy big when materials, land, labour costs and borrowing rates are going through the floor.

You're right though: Our uber-conservative yes man wouldn't dream of acting in this manner.

We haven't had austerity in over five years.

Despite the country expecting to have a surplus in 2020, we'll actually be running a deficit of around €25bn this year while spending more than was previously envisaged as part of our COVID response.


You are right though about the merits of counter-cyclical fiscal policy - i.e. spending more on capital projects when the economy is slowing down to try and stimulate recovery. I think you'll see a lot of that in Ireland next year utilising borrowed money.

Wanderer78

Flow Motion wrote: »

Sure does seem like at the moment a Govt can borrow an unlimitless amt cash at low rates. However politicians throwing money at problems is as old as politics. However this time they are throwing enormous amounts at an enormous problem in line with other Govt's across the globe. The problem is what if this does not work? There are a few other background things we should be cognisant of, namely Brexit and the US Election, both have the potential to destabilize the world economy.

theres no question some of the money created in previous times, was wasted, which is probably impossible not to, but its the only game in town right now, the velocity of the money supply is slowly collapsing, increasing the supply, increases this velocity, but its critical that this newly created money is put to good use, and not have it land in accounts and just sit there, which tends to happen, a lot. this is why i advocate for things such as full covid payments to be reinstated, it increases this likelihood of the velocity of the money supply to continue from this creation of the money, i.e. people spending. we re slowly running out of options to kick start our economies, this has to work, or we could all end up in serious trouble, but our fiscally conservative governments are extremely reluctant to do so, theyre currently defaulting to their normal position, theyre simply hardwired to do so, this is potentially absolutely lethal. enough private debt will be created from this project, which a lot of doesnt truly benefit us, for many different reasons, its always important to always keep in mind, as previously mentioned, it was ultimately private debt that caused 08.

id completely agree with you in regard the election and brexit, these are other fly's in the ointment, this is looking like an extremely rocky road.

hardybuck wrote: »

We haven't had austerity in over five years.

Despite the country expecting to have a surplus in 2020, we'll actually be running a deficit of around €25bn this year while spending more than was previously envisaged as part of our COVID response.


You are right though about the merits of counter-cyclical fiscal policy - i.e. spending more on capital projects when the economy is slowing down to try and stimulate recovery. I think you'll see a lot of that in Ireland next year utilising borrowed money.

again, its important to remember, implementing austerity measures was absolutely lethal, and was never gonna address the issues that were ultimately created within global private sector financial institutions, but it was made a sovereign debt problem, it wasnt! it stripped our most critical public services, and now this is truly showing, as we struggle to deal with this virus. it has left us in an extremely vulnerable situation, particularly in relation to our health care system.

we truly need to move on from all this deficit nonsense, rising sovereign debt is fine, it truly is, its far safer than pushing it into the private sector.

i think we ll all be forced to do this type of borrowing and subsequent spending, in order to save our economies, and thankfully, we still have this option available to us

vriesmays

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Given all the cirsumstances present at this time, I cannot see how this project cannot be funded as required and as promised.

€240,000,000,000 in debt and you think the Government will fund this white elephant.

Johnboy1951

Originally Posted by Johnboy1951 
Given all the cirsumstances present at this time, I cannot see how this project cannot be funded as required and as promised.

vriesmays wrote: »

€240,000,000,000 in debt and you think the Government will fund this white elephant.

I guess you must be able to understand, at least some of, what you read!