€300M Investment into Waterford City

Wanderer78

vriesmays wrote:

€240,000,000,000 in debt and you think the Government will fund this white elephant.

Growing public debt has caused far less problems than growing private debt, as we experienced in 08, I.e. Nothing to be worrying about, our private debt issues are probably just about to resurface again.....

karlitob

PremierDeise wrote: »

Fingers crossed. Hopefully it might open the governments eyes in terms of 24/7 cardiac care, airport and University status....

And sure maybe a soccer stadium bigger than the bernabeu or a building to rival the Burj Khalifa while you’re at it.

karlitob

Dum_Dum wrote: »

Funny how Waterford can be seen from 5000 miles away, but successive Dublin governments can't see beyond their own nose.

I, for one, will never forget the way this City has been treated by the rest of this pathetic country.

Cry me a river. I, for one, will never forget the moaning this one “city” does each and every day. We’re ye all born with this chip on your shoulder or did you learn it in school.

BBM77

karlitob wrote: »

Cry me a river. I, for one, will never forget the moaning this one “city” does each and every day. We’re ye all born with this chip on your shoulder or did you learn it in school.

Clearly, you have a lot of spare time seeing that you are reading posts form March 2017. Maybe you should try spending some of it understand the reason why Waterford people feel that way.

karlitob

BBM77 wrote: »

Clearly, you have a lot of spare time seeing that you are reading posts form March 2017. Maybe you should try spending some of it understand the reason why Waterford people feel that way.

First - you make it sound as though no one in Waterford want all of those things now.

Second - you, and this forum, obviously don’t represent the views of Waterford city - you only represents your view as someone who, presumably, is from and lives in Waterford. I cant wait to hear your view on how you feel about how I an Irish tax payer should fund a fourth international airport in Munster while there’s only one in other 3 provinces.

Harry Palmr

Please remind us again why your opinions should matter to us in Waterford.

karlitob

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Please remind us again why your opinions should matter to us in Waterford.

I don’t care whether my opinion does matter to you. Not sure why you think I would care - besides the big chip.

But as a citizen of this state and a taxpayer to boot I'm entitled to my opinion on any of the many white elephants that the city with the big chip expects me to pay for. There’s more important things on my list like Brexit, pandemic, homelessness - rather than an international airport .....in the middle of a global pandemic that will last years.....and will likely destroy Shannon, farronshone, and knock.

But you keep looking for your airport - ask Santa for a model airport for xmas.

Wanderer78

karlitob wrote:

But you keep looking for your airport - ask Santa for a model airport for xmas.

Errr emmm, you do realise this project isn't an airport!

Strangely enough, it seems you could be the one with the actual chip!

Deiseen

karlitob wrote: »

I don’t care whether my opinion does matter to you. Not sure why you think I would care - besides the big chip.

But as a citizen of this state and a taxpayer to boot I'm entitled to my opinion on any of the many white elephants that the city with the big chip expects me to pay for. There’s more important things on my list like Brexit, pandemic, homelessness - rather than an international airport .....in the middle of a global pandemic that will last years.....and will likely destroy Shannon, farronshone, and knock.

But you keep looking for your airport - ask Santa for a model airport for xmas.

As has to be explained time and time and time again.

The Public money is not to build the 'white elephant'.

It is for the work around the development, which is needed regardless of whether the development is built in it's current form or not i.e. new train station, pedestrian bridge and all associated works.

I suppose you don't think any of those should be built in Waterford either I suspect?

mooseknunkle

I can't wait to fly to New York from the new Waterford international airport!

karlitob

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Errr emmm, you do realise this project isn't an airport!
!

I do.

karlitob

mooseknunkle wrote: »

I can't wait to fly to New York from the new Waterford international airport!

You’d wanna learn the difference between a short haul and long haul international airport before you waste taxpayers money on it.

You can’t fly to New York from Kerry either - it’s still an international airport

mooseknunkle

What are you actually on about?,this investment has nothing got to do with Waterford airport.

killbillvol2

karlitob wrote: »

But you keep looking for your airport - ask Santa for a model airport for xmas.

There's an airport? Wouldn't that be noisy? Wouldn't fancy sitting outside a cafe with planes landing.

Deiseen

mooseknunkle wrote: »

What are you actually on about?,this investment has nothing got to do with Waterford airport.

Christ, I just realised they were talking about the airport......

BBM77

karlitob wrote: »

Cry me a river. I, for one, will never forget the moaning this one “city” does each and every day. We’re ye all born with this chip on your shoulder or did you learn it in school.

karlitob wrote: »

First - you make it sound as though no one in Waterford want all of those things now.

Second - you, and this forum, obviously don’t represent the views of Waterford city - you only represents your view as someone who, presumably, is from and lives in Waterford. I cant wait to hear your view on how you feel about how I an Irish tax payer should fund a fourth international airport in Munster while there’s only one in other 3 provinces.

Tax money should not be spent in Waterford according to you and we have a chip on our shoulder. I think you lovely Cork people need to grow up and realise Cork is nothing special, Waterford has just as much right to government investment.

Bhoy1967

Ah c'mon admin- this thread has hit rock bottom!

Harry Palmr

karlitob wrote: »

I don’t care whether my opinion does matter to you. Not sure why you think I would care - besides the big chip.

But as a citizen of this state and a taxpayer to boot I'm entitled to my opinion on any of the many white elephants that the city with the big chip expects me to pay for. There’s more important things on my list like Brexit, pandemic, homelessness - rather than an international airport .....in the middle of a global pandemic that will last years.....and will likely destroy Shannon, farronshone, and knock.

But you keep looking for your airport - ask Santa for a model airport for xmas.

Please list them and explain in what way they are a white elephant.

karlitob

BBM77 wrote: »

Tax money should not be spent in Waterford according to you and we have a chip on our shoulder. I think you lovely Cork people need to grow up and realise Cork is nothing special, Waterford has just as much right to government investment.

Well I’m not from cork - though it proves the point of your chip.

And I never said that more taxpayers money shouldn’t be spent in Waterford - clearly lots currently is being spent - but that it shouldn’t be spent on building a new Taj Mahal or whatever white elephant the deise heads think they deserve this week.

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Strangely enough, it seems you could be the one with the actual chip!

karlitob wrote: »

Well I’m not from cork - though it proves the point of your chip.

And I never said that more taxpayers money shouldn’t be spent in Waterford - clearly lots currently is being spent - but that it shouldn’t be spent on building a new Taj Mahal or whatever white elephant the deise heads think they deserve this week.

yup, i think so...

karlitob

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Please list them and explain in what way they are a white elephant.

You don’t need an international airport - there’s three in Munster already.
You don’t need a University - there’s 8 in ireland already and you have an IT.

A white elephant is an object, building project, scheme, business Venture, facility whereby the cost is out of proportion to its usefulness.

BBM77

karlitob wrote: »

Well I’m not from cork - though it proves the point of your chip.

And I never said that more taxpayers money shouldn’t be spent in Waterford - clearly lots currently is being spent - but that it shouldn’t be spent on building a new Taj Mahal or whatever white elephant the deise heads think they deserve this week.

Your are an actual joke. You did say taxpayers money shouldn’t be spent in Waterford. You just said it again. "it shouldn’t be spent on building a new Taj Mahal or whatever white elephant the deise heads think they deserve this week." So to you whatever project it is, it is a white elephant once it is in Waterford and shouldn’t get taxpayers money. You have proven nothing but your own arrogance.

karlitob

BBM77 wrote: »

Your are an actual joke. You did say taxpayers money shouldn’t be spent in Waterford. You just said it again. "it shouldn’t be spent on building a new Taj Mahal or whatever white elephant the deise heads think they deserve this week." So to you whatever project it is, it is a white elephant once it is in Waterford and shouldn’t get taxpayers money. You have proven nothing but your own arrogance.

Haha - read it again. You’re anger that someone is challenging the god given right to a university is clouding your reading.

mayordenis

This is amongst the most weaksauce wind-ups in history, I'd leave it go personally.

imacman

BBM77 wrote: »

Your are an actual joke. You did say taxpayers money shouldn’t be spent in Waterford. You just said it again. "it shouldn’t be spent on building a new Taj Mahal or whatever white elephant the deise heads think they deserve this week." So to you whatever project it is, it is a white elephant once it is in Waterford and shouldn’t get taxpayers money. You have proven nothing but your own arrogance.

To be fair , I don't think anyone can say there is no while elephant risk with this project. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be funding as any large development involves risk My worry would be that it guts the city center which has already struggling with debenhams closing and lots of empty units all over the place. I cant see any circumstance where it wont be damaged by a big shiny development across the river.

Wanderer78

imacman wrote: »

To be fair , I don't think anyone can say there is no while elephant risk with this project. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be funding as any large development involves risk My worry would be that it guts the city center which has already struggling with debenhams closing and lots of empty units all over the place. I cant see any circumstance where it wont be damaged by a big shiny development across the river.

it has major potential for monopolisation, in many ways, including in the local property markets

JimWinters

karlitob wrote: »

You don’t need an international airport - there’s three in Munster already.
You don’t need a University - there’s 8 in ireland already and you have an IT.

A white elephant is an object, building project, scheme, business Venture, facility whereby the cost is out of proportion to its usefulness.

I think you're just here to troll but I'll bite anyway, more fool me!


Waterford City is at the eastern side of Munster. To say there's three in Munster already doesn't address the geographics, the closest by distance is Cork airport but Dublin airport can be closer in terms of time, both almost 2 hours away. There is a business case for a runway EXTENSION, not to turn it into a full on international airport, but to give it a chance to work as a regional airport again. This will bring tourism to the region, and the potential to become an aircraft servicing hub.

Report after report fully backs not just the economic need for a full University in the Southeast but also that WIT is operating (or at least it was before more than 25% cuts in funding) at university level. On most metrics it is operating well ahead of where DCU were when they were given university status in 1989. The merger with Carlow for the TU is going to weaken the position of both and strain finances further.



With regards to your suggestion of a White Elephant. The government is being asked to fund much needed infrastructure that should be in place regardless of the private development of the North Quays. As you seem to be misinformed about this funding, here's the breakdown of some of the projects:

• relocate the train station (currently prone to flooding and rockfalls) to a much safer and more stable location closer to the city centre
• build a sustainable transport bridge to link the Ferrybank community to the city centre to remedy the imbalance in city development in that direction
• the bridge will also extend the Greenway to New Ross thus improving Waterford's tourist offering
• it will realign roads and improve access to the city centre, the Ferrybank area and the new development

As mentioned above, the North Quays is being privately funded to the tune of 400-500 million. While the short-term business case for it may have taken a hit, the developers say they are in it for the long term. The apartments have been presold, as is the hotel and much of the office space has been pre-let. The developers also manage franchises for many large brands (https://www.fahretail.com/en-us/Pages/Brands) that they can easily bring to Waterford. They are not going to be looking for M&S and Shaws etc to become tenants, they already have the brands to fill it.



The projections are that the North Quays will repay the government investment within something like 4 years, create 2500+ direct jobs and provide hundreds of much needed housing units.The entrance to Penneys will be closer to the door of this new development than it is to the end of Michael St. It's a short walk if you don't get the reference!



Finally, if the building does become a white elephant, (btw can you point to the other white elephants in Waterford you mention?), the infrastructure the government are funding is much needed, long overdue and still relatively small given the investment made across the country over the last two decades. It is not a chip on our shoulder rather a recognition of consistent and proven under-investment in the region...



Happy to hear your thoughts on the above but please do some research before you come back to me.

https://9thlevel.ie/party-positions/new-universities/



http://www.senser.ie/SE-Economic-Monitor.php

azimuth17

I wish I knew why so many people ,so obviously from outside Waterford city, seem to have a problem with things we want/aspire to here? Is it because of the view that the cake is finite and anything extra will upset someone else's applecart? That was the argument used by UCC to prevent Limerick having UL. It didn't work a nd in the end both institutions have prospered. Why should people from elsewhere be othered if we "whinge" or "moan"? If we want to build a space exploration centre in Ballybeg, so what, that's our aspiration and our business. Is it because they feel we might end up getting what we "whinge " for, or even that we have the resilience to keep aspiring? Maybe its just a Boards thing or an Irish thing?

The level of anti-aspiration is sometimes quite dramatic, as recent posts on this thread will show, and I really wonder why? Is it internal in the southeast or external?

Wanderer78

azimuth17 wrote: »

I wish I knew why so many people ,so obviously from outside Waterford city, seem to have a problem with things we want/aspire to here? Is it because of the view that the cake is finite and anything extra will upset someone else's applecart? That was the argument used by UCC to prevent Limerick having UL. It didn't work a nd in the end both institutions have prospered. Why should people from elsewhere be othered if we "whinge" or "moan"? If we want to build a space exploration centre in Ballybeg, so what, that's our aspiration and our business. Is it because they feel we might end up getting what we "whinge " for, or even that we have the resilience to keep aspiring? Maybe its just a Boards thing or an Irish thing?

The level of anti-aspiration is sometimes quite dramatic, as recent posts on this thread will show, and I really wonder why? Is it internal in the southeast or external?

when are we getting the funding for the space centre, ive been waiting my whole life for it now!

smellyoldboot

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40063934.html%3ftype=amp

Spot who isn't getting any more money....

On the plus side, Shannon and Cork airports are getting €10M each.....