€300M Investment into Waterford City

Deiseen

Limerick steaming ahead with their opera site development..

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/limerick-to-receive-largest-ever-eib-support-programme-for-3000-job-urban-regeneration-plan-814347.html

Aquos76

Deiseen wrote: »

Limerick steaming ahead with their opera site development..

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/limerick-to-receive-largest-ever-eib-support-programme-for-3000-job-urban-regeneration-plan-814347.html

The difference in that funding is that what limerick are getting is a loan whereas we are looking for is a handout, my understanding is the 60m plus we are looking for will be signed off on before the end of the year, so fingers crossed it will be announced soon enough.

Deiseen

Aquos76 wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

Limerick steaming ahead with their opera site development..

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/limerick-to-receive-largest-ever-eib-support-programme-for-3000-job-urban-regeneration-plan-814347.html

The difference in that funding is that what limerick are getting is a loan whereas we are looking for is a handout, my understanding is the 60m plus we are looking for will be signed off on before the end of the year, so fingers crossed it will be announced soon enough.

I did notice that but just wondering why Limerick never went down the capital investment route?

Mutant z

Im not familiar with Waterford but it sounds like a place that does need major investment alright.

hardybuck

"hardybuck wrote: »

I wonder if the likes of the Council could ever go and seek funding from the likes of the European Investment Bank et al if handouts aren't available?

I reiterate my earlier point. If WCC are convinced of the return on investment, they should be confident about approaching the EIB for structural funding.

Waterboy2014

hardybuck wrote: »

I reiterate my earlier point. If WCC are convinced of the return on investment, they should be confident about approaching the EIB for structural funding.

I suppose the council are looking at bigger picture and trying to negotiate best outcome. Why take a loan if you can get the funding? I'd imagine the EIB loan would be plan B.

BBM77

The €60 million is for infrastructure only. That is what we pay tax to the government for, to provide infrastructure to allow business to develop and create jobs. Why the hell should WCC get a loan for this? What is even the point of paying tax or even having a government if WCC can’t get €60 million for infrastructure?

To say we are getting a handout is ridiculous. The reason Limerick is getting a loan is probably because they are after getting so much government funding while Noonan was Minister for Finance it stretch’s credulity to give much more.

hardybuck

BBM77 wrote: »

The €60 million is for infrastructure only. That is what we pay tax to the government for, to provide infrastructure to allow business to develop and create jobs. Why the hell should WCC get a loan for this? What is even the point of paying tax or even having a government if WCC can’t get €60 million for infrastructure?

To say we are getting a handout is ridiculous. The reason Limerick is getting a loan is probably because they are after getting so much government funding while Noonan was Minister for Finance it stretch’s credulity to give much more.

The State spends about 5-6 times more on servicing debt with your taxes than it can spend on infrastructure.

For that reason we're actually limited in how much we spend between current and capital expenditure, and it's why the likes of the third level institutions and Limerick are borrowing themselves. It's a way of accessing funds and keeping it off balance sheet.

BBM77

hardybuck wrote: »

The State spends about 5-6 times more on servicing debt with your taxes than it can spend on infrastructure.

For that reason we're actually limited in how much we spend between current and capital expenditure, and it's why the likes of the third level institutions and Limerick are borrowing themselves. It's a way of accessing funds and keeping it off balance sheet.

Couldn’t give a ****e. The same way ministers couldn’t give a ****e when they were spending what money there was on their own constituencies and ignoring Waterford. Also, a very large proportion of the €60 million will be made back by the government through taxes so they will not in reality be spending much.

hardybuck

BBM77 wrote: »

Couldn’t give a ****e. The same way ministers couldn’t give a ****e when they were spending what money there was on their own constituencies and ignoring Waterford. Also, a very large proportion of the €60 million will be made back by the government through taxes so they will not in reality be spending much.

Will the Council make any back in rates?

BBM77

hardybuck wrote: »

Will the Council make any back in rates?

What is your point?

Max Powers

Deiseen wrote: »

Limerick steaming ahead with their opera site development..

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/limerick-to-receive-largest-ever-eib-support-programme-for-3000-job-urban-regeneration-plan-814347.html

Does anyone believe limerick will be paying 85m back, there is no way they could afford to.this will be paid for in one name or another by central/govt taxes.

hardybuck

BBM77 wrote: »

What is your point?

Your point was that it wouldn't cost the State much because we'd make it back in tax. The same argument could be applied to the Council.

Harry Palmr

hardybuck wrote: »

Will the Council make any back in rates?

Presumably about 8 hectares of business will generate quite a bit of rateable income.

BBM77

hardybuck wrote: »

Your point was that it wouldn't cost the State much because we'd make it back in tax. The same argument could be applied to the Council.

I still don’t see what is your point. In one post are saying ”the State spends about 5-6 times more on servicing debt with your taxes than it can spend on infrastructure.” Which suggests you are saying the state should be spending more of taxes on infrastructure like the €60 million for the north wharf. In another you are saying “If WCC are convinced of the return on investment, they should be confident about approaching the EIB for structural funding.” Which suggests you are saying the state should not be spending more of taxes on infrastructure like the €60 million for the north wharf, that WCC should be getting an EIB loan. And getting themselves into debt. Which is it?

hardybuck

BBM77 wrote: »

I still don’t see what is your point. In one post are saying ”the State spends about 5-6 times more on servicing debt with your taxes than it can spend on infrastructure.” Which suggests you are saying the state should be spending more of taxes on infrastructure like the €60 million for the north wharf. In another you are saying “If WCC are convinced of the return on investment, they should be confident about approaching the EIB for structural funding.” Which suggests you are saying the state should not be spending more of taxes on infrastructure like the €60 million for the north wharf, that WCC should be getting an EIB loan. And getting themselves into debt. Which is it?

I'll break this down as easily as I can.

1. You mentioned some expletives and suggested that projects like this are what we pay our tax for.

2. My response was that because we're spending so much on servicing debt, we have limited opportunity to spend on infastructure, much less than we'd all like. Do we spend more on infastructure, well then maybe we need to reduce spending on education, health or social programmes - those are the dilemmas you're facing.

The country must also comply with guidelines regarding what we spend our budget on, e.g. how much we split between current and capital expenditure, and how much debt we can hold on our balance sheet.

3. In light of the above, alternative funding models, e.g. the EIB, are being actively used by the likes of third level institutes and in this case Limerick County Council to fund important investment projects.

4. You also suggested that because the State will raise taxes on the development, we wouldn't be spending that much as you put it. Because the Council will also be taking in additional rates - the same argument could be applied - the cost would be offset against increase in income.

5. What this boils down to is how much money the state can raise in income, what it can borrow, and how it can keep all of the different plates spinning. Easier said than done in the current climate, and Limerick have got their project moving forward by making it happen - maybe we need to adopt a similar mindset.

Finally, you might find this link helpful. It shows you exactly where your tax is spent, if you're paying tax. http://www.publicpolicy.ie/where-does-your-tax-go/

BBM77

hardybuck wrote: »

I'll break this down as easily as I can.

1. You mentioned some expletives and suggested that projects like this are what we pay our tax for.

2. My response was that because we're spending so much on servicing debt, we have limited opportunity to spend on infastructure, much less than we'd all like. Do we spend more on infastructure, well then maybe we need to reduce spending on education, health or social programmes - those are the dilemmas you're facing.

The country must also comply with guidelines regarding what we spend our budget on, e.g. how much we split between current and capital expenditure, and how much debt we can hold on our balance sheet.

3. In light of the above, alternative funding models, e.g. the EIB, are being actively used by the likes of third level institutes and in this case Limerick County Council to fund important investment projects.

4. You also suggested that because the State will raise taxes on the development, we wouldn't be spending that much as you put it. Because the Council will also be taking in additional rates - the same argument could be applied - the cost would be offset against increase in income.

5. What this boils down to is how much money the state can raise in income, what it can borrow, and how it can keep all of the different plates spinning. Easier said than done in the current climate, and Limerick have got their project moving forward by making it happen - maybe we need to adopt a similar mindset.

Finally, you might find this link helpful. It shows you exactly where your tax is spent, if you're paying tax. http://www.publicpolicy.ie/where-does-your-tax-go/

You are making about as much sense as a pro-Brexit MP!

Point 1. I said “That is what we pay tax to the government for, to provide infrastructure to allow business to develop and create jobs.” I didn’t say it was up to the government to pay for the north wharf project.

Point 2 is just a statement of the obvious.

On point 3. Yes, on projects. I don’t think you get that the €60 million Waterford is getting is just for infrastructure. That means roads, new junctions, sewers, water mains, pedestrian bridge etc. It is enabling work it is not for the actual building of the project.

On point 4. I said “a very large proportion of the €60 million will be made back by the government through taxes”, it is not a suggestion it is true. Again, you are confusing the €60 million enabling works with the actual development which will be paid for by the private sector. But yes taxes will be raised on the actual development.

On point 5. Waterford has gotten its urban renewal project moving forward. WCC has gone out and gotten a private investor to commit €500 million. I don’t know what high moral ground you think you are looking down from but the reality is your view is just fiction. Limerick CC has gotten an €80 million EIB loan to build a building. Waterford has gotten the government to provide infrastructure that it is their job to provide.

hardybuck

BBM77 wrote: »

You are making about as much sense as a pro-Brexit MP!

Point 1. I said “That is what we pay tax to the government for, to provide infrastructure to allow business to develop and create jobs.” I didn’t say it was up to the government to pay for the north wharf project.

Point 2 is just a statement of the obvious.

On point 3. Yes, on projects. I don’t think you get that the €60 million Waterford is getting is just for infrastructure. That means roads, new junctions, sewers, water mains, pedestrian bridge etc. It is enabling work it is not for the actual building of the project.

On point 4. I said “a very large proportion of the €60 million will be made back by the government through taxes”, it is not a suggestion it is true. Again, you are confusing the €60 million enabling works with the actual development which will be paid for by the private sector. But yes taxes will be raised on the actual development.

On point 5. Waterford has gotten its urban renewal project moving forward. WCC has gone out and gotten a private investor to commit €500 million. I don’t know what high moral ground you think you are looking down from but the reality is your view is just fiction. Limerick CC has gotten an €80 million EIB loan to build a building. Waterford has gotten the government to provide infrastructure that it is their job to provide.

I've been unsuccessful in getting through to you. We'll agree to disagree.

Limerick project looks great. Looking forward to seeing it progress.

erica74

Is this the right thread to talk about the Christmas lights up by the spaceship canopy thingy?
I got a look when they were being put up on Tuesday night and they look so good, can't wait to see them finished all lit up

Waterboy2014

Anyone hear any word on when the government funding is to be announced?

Max Powers

Waterboy2014 wrote: »

Anyone hear any word on when the government funding is to be announced?

During the summer coveney said September, now it's Dec/jan heard council fella say on radio. govt dragging the arse out of this as usual, delays not good.there is a need for office space in the country, we need to supply it here in Waterford ASAP to capitalise on any upcoming business opportunities

spankmemunkey

Quick answer needed, Is this going to go ahead or is it pie in the sky?

dzilla

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Quick answer needed, Is this going to go ahead or is it pie in the sky?

Pie in the sky id say but nothing official out yet

Waterboy2014

Max Powers wrote: »

During the summer coveney said September, now it's Dec/jan heard council fella say on radio. govt dragging the arse out of this as usual, delays not good.there is a need for office space in the country, we need to supply it here in Waterford ASAP to capitalise on any upcoming business opportunities

Had heard December mentioned several times... that's the first I've heard of January in the mix. That's disappointing. Thanks

914

I have heard from the beginnig of this that government announce these types of decisions late November/December.

Waterboy2014

I'm wondering what a general election would mean for the North Quays project. I'm hoping the funding doesn't get lost in all the mayhem... although I wonder would FG or FF make commitment to it an election issue for Waterford. Feels like bad timing though

Max Powers

Waterboy2014 wrote: »

I'm wondering what a general election would mean for the North Quays project. I'm hoping the funding doesn't get lost in all the mayhem... although I wonder would FG or FF make commitment to it an election issue for Waterford. Feels like bad timing though

I was thinking that too, even a delay could be seriously negative consequences.

jimbo1979

Were in the new year now and still no word about this.looks like it's all smoke and mirrors about this project.i see cork-limerick have a development plan in place for 2018 and massive development and infrastructure going ahead with it,oh well waterford left behind once again it looks like

iseegirls

Is the redevelopment of Jury's waiting on the verdict of this as well?

MentalMario

jimbo1979 wrote: »

Were in the new year now and still no word about this.looks like it's all smoke and mirrors about this project.i see cork-limerick have a development plan in place for 2018 and massive development and infrastructure going ahead with it,oh well waterford left behind once again it looks like

Government offices are hardly back open yet are they?

If they are, they won't do anything of note for at least a fortnight apart from asking how all their colleagues Christmas' were.

If it's still radio silence at the end of the month, I'll be a little worried.