€300M Investment into Waterford City

PeterCasey

kayaksurfbum wrote: »

Do you work in retail?

I'll give another example. I work close with a Carlow company that has outlets all over the southeast. They expanded the KK shop a few years ago, last week they reduced it again. Moved two staff to Waterford and one to Carlow.

I know a guy who shut a shop on Rose inn street in 2016. Shop is empty with zero interested shown since then.

Retail in Kilkenny is on the down big time. Tourism/pub trade is on the up.

I know that shop in Rose inn street is that not closed since 2016 due to family problems it is a very small shop anyway its sad what happened there. As regards the shoping in kilkenny why is it on the down big time when you see some companies having confidence expanding into bigger premises large retails after arriving the last twelve months as somebody in retail whats your views.

914

kayaksurfbum wrote: »

Do you work in retail?

I'll give another example. I work close with a Carlow company that has outlets all over the southeast. They expanded the KK shop a few years ago, last week they reduced it again. Moved two staff to Waterford and one to Carlow.

I know a guy who shut a shop on Rose inn street in 2016. Shop is empty with zero interested shown since then.

Retail in Kilkenny is on the down big time. Tourism/pub trade is on the up.

No I don't work in retail anymore, changed career paths recently. Surely though if tourism/pub trade is on the increase that would lead to an increase in retail footfall.

We see that happening here in Waterford since the establishment of the Viking Triangle. With the increase of tourism here, retail has bounced backed which is great to see.

Deiseen

Chiparus wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.waterfordboundaryreview.ie/submissions/online/Stephanie%20Taheny.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjr4O7OqfrYAhUEJVAKHZCuAPMQFjAAegQIDBAB&usg=AOvVaw1BEm5E4W3_NOcCD7sYKcyi

Again this is not subterfuge to attract "brands" away from Waterford, this is a council seeing the opportunity to make millions in development levies ( and to hell with the consequences.)

Waterford Council in its previous incarnation did the exact same.

Take from that what you want but it's quiet clear what the reasoning behind the FB shopping centre was.

Chiparus

Presumably you believe the Butlerstown retail park was a planned attempt by Waterford County Council to attack the city.

Seriously if you believe that the Ferrybank SC was an attempt by "kilkenny" to undermine Waterford city by "luring brands" you are paranoid.

Development levies - money - mula thats all it was.

kayaksurfbum

Chiparus wrote: »

Presumably you believe the Butlerstown retail park was a planned attempt by Waterford County Council to attack the city.

Seriously if you believe that the Ferrybank SC was an attempt by "kilkenny" to undermine Waterford city by "luring brands" you are paranoid.

Development levies - money - mula thats all it was.

That is the most idiotic reasoning. You have no idea how any business works if you think that.

Chiparus

kayaksurfbum wrote: »

That is the most idiotic reasoning. You have no idea how any business works if you think that.

No, you are correct , in an effort to "lure brands" and attack Waterford, Kilkenny county council decided to give planning permission for a shopping centre that ultimately was a failure.

Nothing to do with the millions in development levies .

:rolleyes:

kayaksurfbum

Chiparus wrote: »

No, you are correct , in an effort to "lure brands" and attack Waterford, Kilkenny county council decided to give planning permission for a shopping centre that ultimately was a failure.

Nothing to do with the millions in development levies .

:rolleyes:

So your saying it was built with the intention of it never opening and collecting rates for KK?

Chiparus

kayaksurfbum wrote: »

So your saying it was built with the intention of it never opening and collecting rates for KK?

No it was built by developers who saw a bussiness opportunity, KK CoCo had a financial incentive to open it because there were development levies and in the future , rates.

The idea this was a deliberate move to somehow stifle the advancement of Waterford is paranoid rubbish.

robtri

just to clear up..

KK did ferry bank to lure brands out of Waterford...and undermine Waterfordcity

What Brands are we talking about??? cause only Dunnes was noted for the centre..


So building a shopping Mall/retail in ferry bank is disgraceful
but its ok to build a shopping retail area in ferry bank if you are waterford city council....

azimuth17

The planning background to Ferrybank shopping centre has been explained on various pages here time and again. Ferrybank needed retail. No one disputes that It needed a district shopping centre ( like Supervalu Tramore Road) to comply with Retail Planning Guidelines. KK Co Co gave permission for a town centre development despite Board Pleanala having told them previously that Ferrybank was a suburb of Waterford and had to be treated as such. It is not a separate town. The present Ferrybank Shopping centre would not have passed Bord Pleanala had it gone there. The history is complex. Large retailers were floating around Waterford in droves up to 2008 looking for premises. Ferrybank was an attempt to capture that market rather than allow it develop in Waterford city centre where it should be . The North Quays is being developed as an extension to the existing city centre and will be connected by pedestrian bridge to Barronstrand Street. Ferrybank Shopping centre is unlikely to open simply because it does not comply with RPG and hence will not be allowed to open teh volume of comparison retail which its size would need to make it viable.

road_high

kayaksurfbum wrote: »

Do you work in retail?

I'll give another example. I work close with a Carlow company that has outlets all over the southeast. They expanded the KK shop a few years ago, last week they reduced it again. Moved two staff to Waterford and one to Carlow.

I know a guy who shut a shop on Rose inn street in 2016. Shop is empty with zero interested shown since then.

Retail in Kilkenny is on the down big time. Tourism/pub trade is on the up.

In fairness the competition Kilkenny has is absolutely savage from all sides. Waterford, Portlaoise and Carlow all have expanded retail offerings in the past few years taking shoppers from the same hinterlands. You have Kildare Village (expanded) and Newbridge (met several people before Xmas telling they were going there to do the Xmas shopping).
Dublin is only 60-90 mins away and all it has to offer (choice/brands you can't get in KK). I'm not surprised at all retail is under pressure in Kilkenny, combine that with traditionally very high rents and some poor weather in December.
Rents on Rose Inn st are chronic, this is the biggest problem in Kilkenny and indeed allover the country- unwillingness to lower rents to realistic levels with the result they lie idle for years.

fargojones123

azimuth17 wrote: »

The planning background to Ferrybank shopping centre has been explained on various pages here time and again. Ferrybank needed retail. No one disputes that It needed a district shopping centre ( like Supervalu Tramore Road) to comply with Retail Planning Guidelines. KK Co Co gave permission for a town centre development despite Board Pleanala having told them previously that Ferrybank was a suburb of Waterford and had to be treated as such. It is not a separate town. The present Ferrybank Shopping centre would not have passed Bord Pleanala had it gone there. The history is complex. Large retailers were floating around Waterford in droves up to 2008 looking for premises. Ferrybank was an attempt to capture that market rather than allow it develop in Waterford city centre where it should be . The North Quays is being developed as an extension to the existing city centre and will be connected by pedestrian bridge to Barronstrand Street. Ferrybank Shopping centre is unlikely to open simply because it does not comply with RPG and hence will not be allowed to open teh volume of comparison retail which its size would need to make it viable.

Living in Ferrybank, it is a same to see the Shopping Centre being left abandoned except for the Kilkenny Library and County Office. At the same time it is hard to see what they could really put in there that Ferrybank doesn't have. We have a supermarket (Aldi), butchers, post office, pharmacy, two other convenience stores, pubs and a number of restaurants/take-aways and Waterford isn't that far for anything we are missing.

BBM77

road_high wrote: »

In fairness the competition Kilkenny has is absolutely savage from all sides. Waterford, Portlaoise and Carlow all have expanded retail offerings in the past few years taking shoppers from the same hinterlands. You have Kildare Village (expanded) and Newbridge (met several people before Xmas telling they were going there to do the Xmas shopping).
Dublin is only 60-90 mins away and all it has to offer (choice/brands you can't get in KK). I'm not surprised at all retail is under pressure in Kilkenny, combine that with traditionally very high rents and some poor weather in December.
Rents on Rose Inn st are chronic, this is the biggest problem in Kilkenny and indeed allover the country- unwillingness to lower rents to realistic levels with the result they lie idle for years.

So why exactly should we care less in Waterford? Ye certainly didn’t when ye were trying to tear the heart out of Waterford city centre.

Chiparus

BBM77 wrote: »

So why exactly should we care less in Waterford? Ye certainly didn’t when ye were trying to tear the heart out of Waterford city centre.

A lot of Waterford people work in Kilkenny and a lot of Kilkenny people work in Waterford.

BBM77

Chiparus wrote: »

A lot of Waterford people work in Kilkenny and a lot of Kilkenny people work in Waterford.

True, don’t disagree with you. But the point still stands. When the shoe was on the other foot KCC etc were more than happy to do massive damage to Waterford. Now they except us to care about what happens to them. The hypocrisy is just breath-taking.

Jamie2k9

Vote by CC on the last building on N Quays tonight.

robtri

BBM77 wrote: »

True, don’t disagree with you. But the point still stands. When the shoe was on the other foot KCC etc were more than happy to do massive damage to Waterford. Now they except us to care about what happens to them. The hypocrisy is just breath-taking.

and its ok for Waterford city council to do massive damage to the city centre..
sorry putting a large shopping centre across the river is now a great idea...

you are correct the hypocrisy is just breath taking

spaceCreated

It is a bit ridiculous to suggest that the massive unorganized mess that was the ferrybank shopping centre bears any semblance to the north quays development. The North quays development is meant to expand and work in concert with the existing city centre. It is also meant to eb a draw from much farther than Kilkenny. Theres a difference between walking over a purpose built footbridge that is a continuation of a shopping ditrict as opposed to... walking downs the quays, going over a bridge where cars and trucks are flying by (especially fun to do with children and for old people and then to walk to the top of ferrybank). If KK council had any brains they'd see the massive overspill potential and revenue generated by the proposed development, instead, as usual they have very little foresight - I cant understand how they get elected tbh

(edit: well at least until I see some of the comments here)

BBM77

robtri wrote: »

and its ok for Waterford city council to do massive damage to the city centre..
sorry putting a large shopping centre across the river is now a great idea...

you are correct the hypocrisy is just breath taking

This is crap. But even if it was true at least they did it to their own city centre. And not some thinly veiled hostility in an attempt to damage a neighbouring regional city and the jobs it can create in order to push some silly ego-based fantasy that some town is a city.

TheQuietFella

Chiparus wrote: »

A lot of Waterford people work in Kilkenny and a lot of Kilkenny people work in Waterford.

Where exactly in Kilkenny do a lot of Waterford people work?
On what Industrial Estate or do they even have one?
I don't recall the same volume of traffic crossing the bridge heading north against the same volume heading south!

Chiparus

BBM77 wrote: »

True, don’t disagree with you. But the point still stands. When the shoe was on the other foot KCC etc were more than happy to do massive damage to Waterford. Now they except us to care about what happens to them. The hypocrisy is just breath-taking.

Yes we have a classic divide and conquer, while both our counties suffer, Dublin and Cork take services away.

Teebor15

Chiparus wrote: »

Yes we have a classic divide and conquer, while both our counties suffer, Dublin and Cork take services away.

And who is to blame for that? The county whose city is over twice the size as the next urban area in the region, and is trying to grow to rival Cork, Limerick and Galway in the pull for investment which will benefit the whole South East....or the county with an average sized town who cant accept its natural position in the region so instead keeps trying to drag its larger neighbour back to the detriment of everyone!!

Jamie2k9

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Vote by CC on the last building on N Quays tonight.

From John Cummins FB:

I was happy to propose the completion of the part 8 process for the demolition of the Hennebique building on the North Quays.. the proposal was unanimously adopted by all councillors at this evenings meeting! While this building served an important function in the past, the future development of the site and indeed the city and region requires its demolition.. this is another step forward in the redevelopment of this strategic site.. the adoption or rejection of the SDZ framework is next on Thursday week!

Chiparus

Teebor15 wrote: »

And who is to blame for that? The county whose city is over twice the size as the next urban area in the region, and is trying to grow to rival Cork, Limerick and Galway in the pull for investment which will benefit the whole South East....or the county with an average sized town who cant accept its natural position in the region so instead keeps trying to drag its larger neighbour back to the detriment of everyone!!

I would politely suggest that there needs to be some inward looking . Some of the things written in the Waterford media and posted online are highly insulting to our neighbours.

Certainly there is a lot of whataboutary going on. Gets us no where.

skodacb

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

From John Cummins FB:

The building is being 3D scanned before it will be demolished along with the usual architectural and heritage recordings. Really hope next Thursday will bring the much needed investment to the City & Region.

Teebor15

Chiparus wrote: »

I would politely suggest that there needs to be some inward looking . Some of the things written in the Waterford media and posted online are highly insulting to our neighbours.

Certainly there is a lot of whataboutary going on. Gets us no where.

Yes there does need to be some inward looking.
Kilkenny needs to stop distracting Waterford from trying to grow to a size to be able to compete with its peer cities in the fight for both public and private investment. Kilkenny town is no where near the size to mount any challenge to these cities. They need to accept this and do what they do best. They have a great tourism product. I love going to Kilkenny for a day out, I genuinely do, the castle is great space to hang out for an afternoon and I love the relaxed atmosphere.

I'm not saying Kilkenny should not grow. Of course it should, but go about it in a fair manner without having a go at Waterford at every opportunity. You don't see Waterford objecting to anything in Kilkenny. Or for that matter you don't hear any negativity towards Waterford from Wexford, Carlow or Clonmel, similar sized towns to Kilkenny.

Kilkenny is like a little terrier who keeps sniping at Waterfords leg, distracting it from competing with its peer cities. (And no, I don't blame Waterfords under achievement entirely at the foot of Kilkenny, thats whole other thread, but it sure doesn't help!)

Chiparus

Teebor15 wrote: »

Yes there does need to be some inward looking.
Kilkenny needs to stop distracting Waterford from trying to grow to a size to be able to compete with its peer cities in the fight for both public and private investment. Kilkenny town is no where near the size to mount any challenge to these cities. They need to accept this and do what they do best. They have a great tourism product. I love going to Kilkenny for a day out, I genuinely do, the castle is great space to hang out for an afternoon and I love the relaxed atmosphere.

I'm not saying Kilkenny should not grow. Of course it should, but go about it in a fair manner without having a go at Waterford at every opportunity. You don't see Waterford objecting to anything in Kilkenny. Or for that matter you don't hear any negativity towards Waterford from Wexford, Carlow or Clonmel, similar sized towns to Kilkenny.

Kilkenny is like a little terrier who keeps sniping at Waterfords leg, distracting it from competing with its peer cities. (And no, I don't blame Waterfords under achievement entirely at the foot of Kilkenny, thats whole other thread, but it sure doesn't help!)

Agree, Waterford should be fighting against Cork, Cork is taking services away from Waterford.

PeterCasey

Teebor15 wrote: »

Yes there does need to be some inward looking.
Kilkenny needs to stop distracting Waterford from trying to grow to a size to be able to compete with its peer cities in the fight for both public and private investment. Kilkenny town is no where near the size to mount any challenge to these cities. They need to accept this and do what they do best. They have a great tourism product. I love going to Kilkenny for a day out, I genuinely do, the castle is great space to hang out for an afternoon and I love the relaxed atmosphere.

I'm not saying Kilkenny should not grow. Of course it should, but go about it in a fair manner without having a go at Waterford at every opportunity. You don't see Waterford objecting to anything in Kilkenny. Or for that matter you don't hear any negativity towards Waterford from Wexford, Carlow or Clonmel, similar sized towns to Kilkenny.

Kilkenny is like a little terrier who keeps sniping at Waterfords leg, distracting it from competing with its peer cities. (And no, I don't blame Waterfords under achievement entirely at the foot of Kilkenny, thats whole other thread, but it sure doesn't help!)

Arrogance at its best talking to a man from Wexford last week he said to me Waterford they wont everything he said when they had it they threw it away.

Chiparus

PeterCasey wrote: »

Arrogance at its best talking to a man from Wexford last week he said to me Waterford they wont everything he said when they had it they threw it away.

That's arrogance at its best?

Teebor15

PeterCasey wrote: »

Arrogance at its best talking to a man from Wexford last week he said to me Waterford they wont everything he said when they had it they threw it away.

Can you expand your point please?