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€300M Investment into Waterford City
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PeterCasey wrote: »Arrogance at its best talking to a man from Wexford last week he said to me Waterford they wont everything he said when they had it they threw it away.
I was talking to a man who knew a man who's sister was talking to a fella's mother who knew this other fella.......... Snooze!!!!
Sure while we're hear you might care to inform us as to what we threw away???0 -
Yes there does need to be some inward looking.
Kilkenny needs to stop distracting Waterford from trying to grow to a size to be able to compete with its peer cities in the fight for both public and private investment. Kilkenny town is no where near the size to mount any challenge to these cities. They need to accept this and do what they do best. They have a great tourism product. I love going to Kilkenny for a day out, I genuinely do, the castle is great space to hang out for an afternoon and I love the relaxed atmosphere.
I'm not saying Kilkenny should not grow. Of course it should, but go about it in a fair manner without having a go at Waterford at every opportunity. You don't see Waterford objecting to anything in Kilkenny. Or for that matter you don't hear any negativity towards Waterford from Wexford, Carlow or Clonmel, similar sized towns to Kilkenny.
Kilkenny is like a little terrier who keeps sniping at Waterfords leg, distracting it from competing with its peer cities. (And no, I don't blame Waterfords under achievement entirely at the foot of Kilkenny, thats whole other thread, but it sure doesn't help!)
Well said. Can’t find the link now but listened to a podcast the other day of Paudie Coffee being interviewed on WLR. He spoke about exactly what you are talking about. Of his time on the regional authority and his experience of as soon as something came up that would help Waterford develop as the regional capital and compete with Cork, Limerick and Galway the barriers started being put in the way by Kilkenny and Wexford.
Don’t agree with a previous post that we are ”highly insulting to our neighbours”. I think this behaviour needs to be highlighted. It has gone on far too long and is costing jobs.0 -
Don't mind poor old Peter Casey, he was on here before telling us how Waterford is finished because no one manufactures anything anymore and how crap the whole place is doing. I set him straight with a few facts on the IDA jobs in Waterford/KK, tourist numbers etc but he seems to ignore facts altogether.PeterCasey wrote: »Arrogance at its best talking to a man from Wexford last week he said to me Waterford they wont everything he said when they had it they threw it away.
I was talking to a man who knew a man who's sister was talking to a fella's mother who knew this other fella.......... Snooze!!!!
Sure while we're hear you might care to inform us as to what we threw away???
I just welcome the fact that we have someone like him coming on and proving to the other rational Kilkenny lads that we are not lying when we say there is an element up there that wants to see Waterford fail no matter what, even if that will ultimately harm the quality of life for him and his Wexford pal.
Hopefully none of them have a heart attack when they hear the news around 6pm some evening that the North Quays is actually going ahead.0 -
Yes there does need to be some inward looking.
Kilkenny needs to stop distracting Waterford from trying to grow to a size to be able to compete with its peer cities in the fight for both public and private investment. Kilkenny town is no where near the size to mount any challenge to these cities. They need to accept this and do what they do best. They have a great tourism product. I love going to Kilkenny for a day out, I genuinely do, the castle is great space to hang out for an afternoon and I love the relaxed atmosphere.
I'm not saying Kilkenny should not grow. Of course it should, but go about it in a fair manner without having a go at Waterford at every opportunity. You don't see Waterford objecting to anything in Kilkenny. Or for that matter you don't hear any negativity towards Waterford from Wexford, Carlow or Clonmel, similar sized towns to Kilkenny.
Kilkenny is like a little terrier who keeps sniping at Waterfords leg, distracting it from competing with its peer cities. (And no, I don't blame Waterfords under achievement entirely at the foot of Kilkenny, thats whole other thread, but it sure doesn't help!)
Love the naivety here. As if Kilkenny is going to stop growing (nearly 10% last Census) just to "allow" Waterford grow to some kind of regional city it thinks it should be. If the populace wanted to live there they would.
What Kilkenny needs to do/is doing anyway is abandon this 1970s notion of subservice to Waterford and integrate itself fully with the Mid-East region alongside Carlow, Portlaoise and the Kildare Corridor where the actual population growth is centered. The notion of a Waterford centered SE is long dead and killed stone dead by precisely the attitude displayed in your post. You don't seem to get that people in Kilkenny and indeed Carlow don't like being talked down to and belittled continually- see your inane pettiness re Kilkenny "town" etc.
Who wants to listen or be part of this rubbish? No thanks.0 -
Any chance this thread could get back on topic and not descend into the boring parochial b*llocks?0
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What you have just said there completely flies in the face of the statement that the ESRI put out, just last week, saying that an overcooked Dublin will begin to harm the Irish economy if it continues to grow at it's current pace while the regional cities lose out.Yes there does need to be some inward looking.
Kilkenny needs to stop distracting Waterford from trying to grow to a size to be able to compete with its peer cities in the fight for both public and private investment. Kilkenny town is no where near the size to mount any challenge to these cities. They need to accept this and do what they do best. They have a great tourism product. I love going to Kilkenny for a day out, I genuinely do, the castle is great space to hang out for an afternoon and I love the relaxed atmosphere.
I'm not saying Kilkenny should not grow. Of course it should, but go about it in a fair manner without having a go at Waterford at every opportunity. You don't see Waterford objecting to anything in Kilkenny. Or for that matter you don't hear any negativity towards Waterford from Wexford, Carlow or Clonmel, similar sized towns to Kilkenny.
Kilkenny is like a little terrier who keeps sniping at Waterfords leg, distracting it from competing with its peer cities. (And no, I don't blame Waterfords under achievement entirely at the foot of Kilkenny, thats whole other thread, but it sure doesn't help!)
Love the naivety here. As if Kilkenny is going to stop growing (nearly 10% last Census) just to "allow" Waterford grow to some kind of regional city it thinks it should be. If the populace wanted to live there they would.
What Kilkenny needs to do/is doing anyway is abandon this 1970s notion of subservice to Waterford and integrate itself fully with the Mid-East region alongside Carlow, Portlaoise and the Kildare Corridor where the actual population growth is centered. The notion of a Waterford centered SE is long dead and killed stone dead by precisely the attitude displayed in your post. You don't seem to get that people in Kilkenny and indeed Carlow don't like being talked down to and belittled continually- see your inane pettiness re Kilkenny "town" etc.
Who wants to listen or be part of this rubbish? No thanks.
But sure hey, what harm as long as Waterford and the South East suffer.
Jobs are leaving the South East, educated young people are leaving (and not returning), we are way under served in 3rd Level Education, the health system here is one of the worst on the Island, there's no functioning airport in the region and our tourism pull (this includes Kilkenny!!) is extremely poor. These are common problems between Waterford/Kilkenny, so can you please tell me what you do not understand because it's getting tiring waiting for the penny to drop here.
Edit: No one wants Kilkenny to stop growing. Kilkenny will benefit from a strong Waterford and vice versa. It will not benefit however, from an overpowering Dublin.0 -
The building is being 3D scanned before it will be demolished along with the usual architectural and heritage recordings. Really hope next Thursday will bring the much needed investment to the City & Region.
Not really sure about next Thursday decision, is it just related to the published plans?0 -
Love the naivety here. As if Kilkenny is going to stop growing (nearly 10% last Census) just to "allow" Waterford grow to some kind of regional city it thinks it should be. If the populace wanted to live there they would.
What Kilkenny needs to do/is doing anyway is abandon this 1970s notion of subservice to Waterford and integrate itself fully with the Mid-East region alongside Carlow, Portlaoise and the Kildare Corridor where the actual population growth is centered. The notion of a Waterford centered SE is long dead and killed stone dead by precisely the attitude displayed in your post. You don't seem to get that people in Kilkenny and indeed Carlow don't like being talked down to and belittled continually- see your inane pettiness re Kilkenny "town" etc.
Who wants to listen or be part of this rubbish? No thanks.
No large international company wants to locate in Kilkenny because it doesn't have the amenities Dublin offers. You can't "integrate" because you're just too far away. I imagine VHI would find it easier to recruit software developers, state street accountants, etc, etc if there was one of the iggest shopping centres in Ireland 30 minutes away with easy parking and no traffic. The large influx who are highly skilled would probably locate somewhere between Waterford and Kilkenny City benefiting both with money. A lot more companies would move in to the region because you would have amenities surpassing Galway and Limerick with a much cheaper area.
I know in Waterford we at least seem to be trying something other than hoping for some breadcrumbs from the Dublin table, I'm sure Kilkenny people on the by and large want more than that (excluding yourself of course). Whats strange is that this is the best chance to get tenants other than a library for the massive NAMA building we all paid for.0 -
spaceCreated wrote: »No large international company wants to locate in Kilkenny because it doesn't have the amenities Dublin offers. You can't "integrate" because you're just too far away. I imagine VHI would find it easier to recruit software developers, state street accountants, etc, etc if there was one of the iggest shopping centres in Ireland 30 minutes away with easy parking and no traffic. The large influx who are highly skilled would probably locate somewhere between Waterford and Kilkenny City benefiting both with money. A lot more companies would move in to the region because you would have amenities surpassing Galway and Limerick with a much cheaper area.
I know in Waterford we at least seem to be trying something other than hoping for some breadcrumbs from the Dublin table, I'm sure Kilkenny people on the by and large want more than that (excluding yourself of course). Whats strange is that this is the best chance to get tenants other than a library for the massive NAMA building we all paid for.
I think shopping is overstated, lifestyle, healthcare ,employment hosing costs and schools are more important, clearly Ferrybank could have a lot to offer, especially if the Greenway goes ahead
Having it part of Waterford city would of course be beneficial, but it would mean a serious financial cost for Kilkenny County council.
A way has to be found, perhaps in the form of sharing revenues from property taxes? or having a plebacite for the people of Ferrybank.
But the realisation that Ferrybank is probably Kilkennys largest town , taking it away from Kilkenny County council will have to be negotiated.0 -
This is crap. But even if it was true at least they did it to their own city centre. And not some thinly veiled hostility in an attempt to damage a neighbouring regional city and the jobs it can create in order to push some silly ego-based fantasy that some town is a city.
why is it crap...
are waterford cc planning on putting in a large retail centre in ferrybank?
how is that not hypocrisy, since this waterford are shouting this retial centre in ferrybank is whats needed and yet moan about a retail centre in ferrybank....
Has anyone got a link to KK objection to the North Quay development?
curious to see the grounds it is objecting on0 -
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why is it crap...
are waterford cc planning on putting in a large retail centre in ferrybank?
how is that not hypocrisy, since this waterford are shouting this retial centre in ferrybank is whats needed and yet moan about a retail centre in ferrybank....
Has anyone got a link to KK objection to the North Quay development?
curious to see the grounds it is objecting on
The North Quays is an extension of the the city centre! You can not compare it Ferrybank.
Anyway I have enough of the Waterford V Kilkenny it benefits no one.
Fingers the government do the right thing here and we can all move forward with the North Quays.
Just out of interest did KK chamber or chamber take the same stance on Carlows new €70 million shopping centre?0 -
why is it crap...
are waterford cc planning on putting in a large retail centre in ferrybank?
how is that not hypocrisy, since this waterford are shouting this retial centre in ferrybank is whats needed and yet moan about a retail centre in ferrybank....
Has anyone got a link to KK objection to the North Quay development?
curious to see the grounds it is objecting on
The reason it is crap has been written an number of times here so I’m not going rehash it.
This is the podcast of Paudie Coffee being interviewed on WLR I wrote about earlier. The first part is a Kilkenny objector speaking.
https://soundcloud.com/paudie-coffey/john-hurley-and-paudie-coffey-deise-today-1?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=facebook0 -
I think shopping is overstated, lifestyle, healthcare ,employment hosing costs and schools are more important, clearly Ferrybank could have a lot to offer, especially if the Greenway goes ahead
Having it part of Waterford city would of course be beneficial, but it would mean a serious financial cost for Kilkenny County council.
A way has to be found, perhaps in the form of sharing revenues from property taxes? or having a plebacite for the people of Ferrybank.
But the realisation that Ferrybank is probably Kilkennys largest town , taking it away from Kilkenny County council will have to be negotiated.
You think the Greeenway is more important than having a massive shopping centre/district. :pac: Like I mean its great to have but if you have a highly desirable skill its one of the things you look at. I have rakes of friends whowa nt go enar the South East because of a lack of restarautns, shops, bars etc.
Is the shopping centre meant to be located in somewhere other than Waterford?
Of course the rest of Ferrybank being part of Waterford makes sense on several levels.0 -
The North Quays is an extension of the the city centre! You can not compare it Ferrybank.
Anyway I have enough of the Waterford V Kilkenny it benefits no one.
Fingers the government do the right thing here and we can all move forward with the North Quays.
Just out of interest did KK chamber or chamber take the same stance on Carlows new €70 million shopping centre?
the north quays is ferrybank!!!
they are 500m apart, to say one is an extension and one isnt is crazy.... they are beside each other..
has anybody seen this objection by KK? or have a link to it??
am curious to read it and cant find it0 -
The North Quays is an extension of the the city centre! You can not compare it Ferrybank.
Anyway I have enough of the Waterford V Kilkenny it benefits no one.
Fingers the government do the right thing here and we can all move forward with the North Quays.
Just out of interest did KK chamber or chamber take the same stance on Carlows new €70 million shopping centre?
the north quays is ferrybank!!!
they are 500m apart, to say one is an extension and one isnt is crazy.... they are beside each other..
has anybody seen this objection by KK? or have a link to it??
am curious to read it and cant find it
Are you actually serious that you cannot see a difference between the two?
Have you actually read the plans for the North Quays?
Because it seems like you are getting involved in a discussion that you clearly don't know anything about...0 -
the north quays is ferrybank!!!
they are 500m apart, to say one is an extension and one isnt is crazy.... they are beside each other..
has anybody seen this objection by KK? or have a link to it??
am curious to read it and cant find it
Ok to get from the clock tower to ferrybank shopping centre it is a 3km walk! To put that into perspective that is the same distance from the clock tower to ardkeen stores.
Would you regard ardkeen stores as an extension of the city centre????
Hopefully if the NQ's gets the green light it will involve massive infrastructure development which will allow you walk from the clock tower to the NQ's in 0.1 of a km.
The train station will also be located at the NQ's which means people now travelling by train will be directly arriving into the city centre.
The lenght from the NQ's to the Applemarket will be the same lenght as Grafton St Dublin. Hence the extension of the city centre.
It is mind boggling that you think the NQ's and FB shopping centre are on the same par!
Even with the new pedestrain bridge in place FB shopping centre will be 1.5km from the clock tower and 1.4km from the train station location in the NQ's and not 500 meters as you say0 -
This development is never going to happen as we don't have the population to justify it! I'm all for the devopment and the progression of Waterford but I just can't see this development happening!
I walked through the city on Saturday and along the Quays and it was a poor reflection on the city. There were so many places that were closed down or just derelict and some just not open! Is there today any real need for people to come in to town considering the amount of shopping centres on The Dunmore Road, Poleberry, The Outer Ring Road! There are also enough bars and restaurants on the outskirts of the city to negate the need to travel in to town!
If this development went ahead what damage would it do to the current retailers already set up in Waterford? What major retailers are they trying to tempt or have even committed to set up in Waterford and what is the status of the development at Michael Street? I think the first priority in Waterford City should be employment, housing (not council housing) and the rest will look after itself!0 -
Weirdly I agree with the thrust of a post by TheQuietFella!
However as 80% of the total spend on the NQ development would be private money coming in to the economy it would be reckless not to proceed. The Saudi's are not interested in Michael Street (which as far as I know is going ahead planning permission granted in Spring 2017) or fixing up run down streets around Ballybricken etc.0 -
I would not be quite as pessimistic as quiet fella. The shopping in Ardkeen, Lisduggan etc is nearly all convenience shopping (for groceries etc). This huge convenience sector is not mirrored by a similar offer in comparison retailing (high value, clothes etc) and the last figures mentioned showed a leakage of €70 million per annum in comparison retail spend out of Waterford city, mostly to Dublin and Cork. It might also be as well to remember that the quay is not actually designated as city centre for the most part and small units empty along it are just relics of the past. They can only thrive and service and open when normal levels of comparison retail return to the city. New business like Eddie Rickets on Dunmore Road, Ben Dunne's gym in Kilbarry, Pizza Hut in Railway Square, The Range at SIx Cross, is turning up all the time.0
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I would not be quite as pessimistic as quiet fella. The shopping in Ardkeen, Lisduggan etc is nearly all convenience shopping (for groceries etc). This huge convenience sector is not mirrored by a similar offer in comparison retailing (high value, clothes etc) and the last figures mentioned showed a leakage of €70 million per annum in comparison retail spend out of Waterford city, mostly to Dublin and Cork. It might also be as well to remember that the quay is not actually designated as city centre for the most part......
I would personally think that Waterford does not have the high end retail outlets as would Dublin or Cork but that again in my view is down to population, demand and economics!
I had a walk down Michael Street yesterday and it was sad to see so many charity shops and again a few shops that had ceased trading! I've said it before here and I'll say it again but the majority of it needs to be demolished and fresh thought put in to what to replace it with!
€70 million is quite a heafty sum to be leaving the local economy but if those businesses are not here then what else would you expect people to do?
I spent in excess of €5k on a hobby of mine over the years but it was spent in Dublin because I got better value up there!0 -
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Let's face it we'll all feel a bit better when we actually get some clear unequivocal news about the start dates for Michael Street and the NQs.0
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TheQuietFella wrote: »This development is never going to happen as we don't have the population to justify it! I'm all for the devopment and the progression of Waterford but I just can't see this development happening!
I walked through the city on Saturday and along the Quays and it was a poor reflection on the city. There were so many places that were closed down or just derelict and some just not open! Is there today any real need for people to come in to town considering the amount of shopping centres on The Dunmore Road, Poleberry, The Outer Ring Road! There are also enough bars and restaurants on the outskirts of the city to negate the need to travel in to town!
If this development went ahead what damage would it do to the current retailers already set up in Waterford? What major retailers are they trying to tempt or have even committed to set up in Waterford and what is the status of the development at Michael Street? I think the first priority in Waterford City should be employment, housing (not council housing) and the rest will look after itself!
This development will have a large number of apartments and will generate a significant number of people Jobs in addition to that.
At the moment, no one shops in Waterford, not even waterford people!!
This will draw people from all over the south east and will make Waterford a place that people, from all over Ireland, actually want to visit, not to mention preventing waterford people from going to Cork/Dublin.
Your idea of levelling the whole city instead of building this is farcical.0 -
Harry Palmr wrote: »Weirdly I agree with the thrust of a post by TheQuietFella!
However as 80% of the total spend on the NQ development would be private money coming in to the economy it would be reckless not to proceed. The Saudi's are not interested in Michael Street (which as far as I know is going ahead planning permission granted in Spring 2017) or fixing up run down streets around Ballybricken etc.
Wrong there I’m afraid. If I read a post from one of the Councillor’s on face book correctly ( Cummins or mulligan not sure which) Michael st is part of the whole deal with the saudis. Michael st will be linked to north quays via the new pedestrian bridge. I’ll try retrieve the link to Facebook if I get the time later0 -
Hell of a long bridge! :pac:0
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Harry Palmr wrote: »Weirdly I agree with the thrust of a post by TheQuietFella!
However as 80% of the total spend on the NQ development would be private money coming in to the economy it would be reckless not to proceed. The Saudi's are not interested in Michael Street (which as far as I know is going ahead planning permission granted in Spring 2017) or fixing up run down streets around Ballybricken etc.
Wrong there I’m afraid. If I read a post from one of the Councillor’s on face book correctly ( Cummins or mulligan not sure which) Michael st is part of the whole deal with the saudis. Michael st will be linked to north quays via the new pedestrian bridge. I’ll try retrieve the link to Facebook if I get the time later
Your correct on that.0 -
Road-Hog wrote:Wrong there I’m afraid. If I read a post from one of the Councillor’s on face book correctly ( Cummins or mulligan not sure which) Michael st is part of the whole deal with the saudis. Michael st will be linked to north quays via the new pedestrian bridge. I’ll try retrieve the link to Facebook if I get the time later
Al Hokair are looking to do both in tandem. They are selecting a local company this week to source the design consultants for the north quays . They are not waiting for government announcement of the 2040 plan they are pressing ahead as worries about inflation costs etc0 -
Found the post in question
https://www.facebook.com/johncumminswaterford/posts/1838721919720858Development of this scale and size is a step closer this evening as Council gave the CEO unanimous support to progress to contract stage with the Alhokair group to develop the Applemarket (Michael St) retail centre and the North Quays SDZ site.
A good few hurdles still to jump but expectation is that Applemarket centre will commence prior to SDZ framework being passed by An Bord Pleanala after council adoption. Exciting times ahead for our great city!!
Maybe it's because everyone is fixated on the NQs that the MSD is being overlooked somewhat.0 -
TheQuietFella wrote: »I would personally think that Waterford does not have the high end retail outlets as would Dublin or Cork but that again in my view is down to population, demand and economics!
I had a walk down Michael Street yesterday and it was sad to see so many charity shops and again a few shops that had ceased trading! I've said it before here and I'll say it again but the majority of it needs to be demolished and fresh thought put in to what to replace it with!
€70 million is quite a heafty sum to be leaving the local economy but if those businesses are not here then what else would you expect people to do?
I spent in excess of €5k on a hobby of mine over the years but it was spent in Dublin because I got better value up there!
Did you do any research into the brands/stores associated with the ‘alhokair group’...? Refer to attached link....http://www.fawazalhokairfashion.com/brands/
I know it doesn’t sound right that an investor would see potential in what most locals see as a dying urban Centre with a low population but if the correct retail Centre is built with enough brands to attract shoppers from outside the greater south east region and can arrest the migration of local shoppers to Cork and dundrum then maybe this €300 m investment could be viable. Waterford and it’s envitons is still cheap to live in when compared with Cork Galway and Dublin. The site they are looking at ie north quays has fast track planning due to SDZ, Michael st has planning approval. The Saudi’s can’t be totally dumb.....they have surely done due diligence before taking the ‘plunge’ with their cash......it’s all too common an attitude for people such as quite-fella et al to have a downer and pessimistic view of their own environs.....if enough footfall can be generated by the Saudi investment then the smaller stores/closed up ones can feed off this too and hey presto in ten years time Waterford could be paved with gold and have a population of 75/80,0000 and growing etc.
Time will tell and as someone else said above it would be nice to get an update on the time frames etc with the project/development.0 -
There is so much wrong, so simplified, so uninformed with quiet fellas demolish it proposal that i find it hard to believe it comes from an adult. What we have seen time and time again in his posts are this ridiculous demolish it nonsense, nothing on the complexities of doing that, nothing on where funds come from and little rational thought in what to replace it with,I believe his previous proposal was demolish all of O'Connell street area, replace with red brick Georgian style houses, pure illogical fantasy stuff.time and time again, his postings have been hyper critical, with little basis, on things happening locally, eg Apple market etc, now a resounding success. at one stage he was saying the city is dirty/littered, yet we are cleanest city in Ireland for 2 years.his thought that we should build a road bridge at tower hotel before a pedestrian one further indicates his complete lack of awareness in what Waterford needs.0
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TheQuietFella wrote: »This development is never going to happen as we don't have the population to justify it! I'm all for the devopment and the progression of Waterford but I just can't see this development happening!
I walked through the city on Saturday and along the Quays and it was a poor reflection on the city. There were so many places that were closed down or just derelict and some just not open! Is there today any real need for people to come in to town considering the amount of shopping centres on The Dunmore Road, Poleberry, The Outer Ring Road! There are also enough bars and restaurants on the outskirts of the city to negate the need to travel in to town!
If this development went ahead what damage would it do to the current retailers already set up in Waterford? What major retailers are they trying to tempt or have even committed to set up in Waterford and what is the status of the development at Michael Street? I think the first priority in Waterford City should be employment, housing (not council housing) and the rest will look after itself!
Waterford’s retail potential has not been fully tapped for the current population. That is before you even get into the fact that “Waterford will be primed to grow by 50% to 60%.”
https://www.rte.ie/news/economy/2018/0205/938359-cabinet-to-meet-on-national-planning-framework/
With all that in mind there is no mystery as to the logic behind the NQ etc.
Like how do you suggest employment will be created without projects like the NQ?0
This discussion has been closed.
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