€300M Investment into Waterford City

fuzzy dunlop

fricatus wrote: »

robcass78 wrote: »

Michael St

-Start build-Aug 18
-Finish build-Aug 19
-60 day handover/snag complete-Nov 19
-Doors open-Dec 19 (trade for Christmas)

I had assumed this was on the long finger! How realistic is this timeline? I'm sure you're familiar with whatever hurdles are yet to be jumped!

You have to remember this is backed by a Saudi group. Gulf countries and Chinese build big and in short timelines. Western countries incrementally. I studied in a German economics institution (Essen) and this was emphasised as the key difference in development culture. Compare changes in New York and London to Dubai and Shanghai over 10 years and the difference is massive.

fuzzy dunlop

BTW I can also comfirm Rob is genuine.

Sully

Let's just chill on questioning poor Rob. At this stage he's been subject to more identity checks than you would at a border crossing. Numerous sources have verified his identity so let's more along and discuss the actual project!

Harry Palmr

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

You have to remember this is backed by a Saudi group. Gulf countries and Chinese build big and in short timelines. Western countries incrementally. I studied in a German economics institution (Essen) and this was emphasised as the key difference in development culture. Compare changes in New York and London to Dubai and Shanghai over 10 years and the difference is massive.

It's the cultural difference between having to 'mind the neighbours' or not. In China they just bulldoze anyone who is in the way.

cactus jacks

Long time lurker here, but I've just seen on twitter that it's official and the funding is going to be made available for the North Quays. Great news for our city.

taytobreath

I read also that funding may be available for a 2nd bridge as part of the regeneration scheme. Where would that be located?

914

taytobreath wrote: »

I read also that funding may be available for a 2nd bridge as part of the regeneration scheme. Where would that be located?

I think the plan for that is out by kings channel area and linking up with the dunmore road.

Harry Palmr

taytobreath wrote: »

I read also that funding may be available for a 2nd bridge as part of the regeneration scheme. Where would that be located?

914 wrote: »

I think the plan for that is out by kings channel area and linking up with the dunmore road.

If that is what is being referenced I simply do not know how they can make that a viable crossing point. If it's the pedestrian bridge to Clock Tower that's always been part of the plan to give the NQs a direct link to the town centre.

DubToDeise

There's 2 potential sites for bridges - at the Tower Hotel and down where I think they've been building a new car park at the hospital. It's just after you take the roundabout to Kings Channel on the left there.

Have always thought that it's a shame they couldn't work out a solid link from there to the ring road. It's single carriageway each way from the Solas to the Hospital. and then the new road be bridge is on the other side of UHW. Not sure how they'll deal with potential traffic volumes from the bridge through the roundabouts at Ardkeen, the hospital, Tesco and then Solas. It's crazy at times there as it is!

Harry Palmr

Exactly - I described it elsewhere as squeezing a quart into a pint pot. The whole point of a second crossing should be to create a genuine ring road which can get everything from a bike to an 18 wheeler around the edges of the city. Any crossing that has to navigate Kings Channel, Ardkeen, WUH, Tesco is going to be half a solution at best and a congestion nightmare at worst.

Here's what we need.

cactus jacks

Just read an article on the Irish times and the bridge is mentioned: Waterford City and County Council (WCCC) chief executive Michael Walsh said: “There’s an awful lot of work to be done yet.”

He envisaged a start in construction in the first quarter of next year, with a finish date expected in early 2021. The same schedule would apply for a pedestrian bridge that would link the Strategic Development Zone (SDZ) to the city centre. A bridge for motor traffic will be constructed too, with the Tower Hotel the most “probable” location, said Mr Walsh. That is expected in the next five to 10 years.

Johnboy1951

From Transforming Waterford Report 2017 .......

3(a) City Centre Access-Enabling City Growth
Abbey Road Eastern Access
The review of Waterford Planning Land Use and Transportation Strategy indicates that a future bridge
will be required in the vicinity of the Tower Hotel. It is considered prudent, following detailed analysis,
to construct access to the North Quays on the eastern end such that it also facilitates access to this
future bridge.

Harry Palmr

Here's something worth a look, though it should be read with the understanding that Waterford is undershopped rather than over-retailed.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/17/uk-retail-industry--gloom-high-street-shift-consumers

TheQuietFella

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Here's something worth a look, though it should be read with the understanding that Waterford is undershopped rather than over-retailed.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/17/uk-retail-industry--gloom-high-street-shift-consumers

And yes, I would agree with this in terms of the big retailers but where are they going to go?
We're still a proverbial 'Market Town' and in a sense there is nothing wrong in that but we've stagnated
for far too long in that outlook.

Gardner

Gavlor wrote: »

Have a read of his posts as opposed to stirring the pot.

i asked Rob the question. i'm hearing a lot of sound bites from JH but id like for Rob to answer the question in detail.

fargojones123

If I remember correctly they couldn't build a bridge from the Tower to Ferrybank because there isn't a strong foundation to build on, it is mostly mud and little bedrock.

Gavlor

Gardner wrote: »

i asked Rob the question. i'm hearing a lot of sound bites from JH but id like for Rob to answer the question in detail.

He had already answered it. Why the need to go into further detail??

I’m pretty sure his motivation for posting on here isn’t to have a pop at our politicians

fuzzy dunlop

Harry Palmr wrote: »

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

You have to remember this is backed by a Saudi group. Gulf countries and Chinese build big and in short timelines. Western countries incrementally. I studied in a German economics institution (Essen) and this was emphasised as the key difference in development culture. Compare changes in New York and London to Dubai and Shanghai over 10 years and the difference is massive.

It's the cultural difference between having to 'mind the neighbours' or not. In China they just bulldoze anyone who is in the way.

That isn't the reason.This is your own prejudice talking.It's money and the West doesn't have it anymore unless they print it.This is the practice when a landbank is in full control of a developer in the West even where huge incentives, cheap credit and tax breaks are involved as well as planning permission being granted.. Incrementalism. The two geohraphies I mentioned have the cash to do it quickly and do it that way ni matter where they go.

curmudgeonly

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

That isn't the reason.This is your own prejudice talking.It's money and the West doesn't have it anymore unless they print it.This is the practice when a landbank is in full control of a developer in the West even where huge incentives, cheap credit and tax breaks are involved as well as planning permission being granted.. Incrementalism. The two geohraphies I mentioned have the cash to do it quickly and do it that way ni matter where they go.

Cash is King, Spot on,does anyone really think any Irish Bank would finance this in a relatively sleepy backwater like Waterford?
We have been targeted as a below performing area with big growth potential without having to play silly buggers with half a dozen competitors.
I hope for one it goes ahead and reaps a tidy profit for them and us.

Wanderer78

fuzzy dunlop wrote:

That isn't the reason.This is your own prejudice talking.It's money and the West doesn't have it anymore unless they print it.This is the practice when a landbank is in full control of a developer in the West even where huge incentives, cheap credit and tax breaks are involved as well as planning permission being granted.. Incrementalism. The two geohraphies I mentioned have the cash to do it quickly and do it that way ni matter where they go.

Plenty of western money around but we have chosen to effectively lock it away, also plenty of western financial institutions creating money, but it's not particularly going into very productive activities.

Parachutes

So what’s the point of throwing all this money at the North Quays considering we didn’t get the border extension? We have lots of land in Ferrybank/South Kilkenny that could be invested in not to mention a massive shopping centre that sits dormant... now we plan on building a massive retail complex 5 minutes down the road...

As a city we need to expand on both sides of the river or we’ll become stagnant and Kilkenny CoCo do nothing for us this side of the river. Priorities aren’t right it seems.

curmudgeonly

Parachutes wrote: »

As a city we need to expand on both sides of the river or we’ll become stagnant and Kilkenny CoCo do nothing for us this side of the river. Priorities aren’t right it seems.

That's exactly what this development will do expand the City across the river .

Wanderer78

curmudgeonly wrote:

Cash is King, Spot on,does anyone really think any Irish Bank would finance this in a relatively sleepy backwater like Waterford? We have been targeted as a below performing area with big growth potential without having to play silly buggers with half a dozen competitors. I hope for one it goes ahead and reaps a tidy profit for them and us.

If you're referring to deposits by 'cash is king', no deposits will be used in this investment?

curmudgeonly

Wanderer78 wrote: »

If you're referring to deposits by 'cash is king', no deposits will be used in this investment?

I mean it as having access to their own funding,

Harry Palmr

Parachutes wrote: »

So what’s the point of throwing all this money at the North Quays considering we didn’t get the border extension? We have lots of land in Ferrybank/South Kilkenny that could be invested in not to mention a massive shopping centre that sits dormant... now we plan on building a massive retail complex 5 minutes down the road...

As a city we need to expand on both sides of the river or we’ll become stagnant and Kilkenny CoCo do nothing for us this side of the river. Priorities aren’t right it seems.

Confused, The plan is to redevelop a prime piece of brown field water frontage that is within the City boundary on the other side of the river and link it to the centre with a new bridge while also developing the Michael Street/Newgate Street area. That Ferrybank carbuncle will never be used for retail I reckon (unless maybe the Fawaz Alhokair Group can get it for a knockdown price )

Gardner

Gavlor wrote: »

He had already answered it. Why the need to go into further detail??

I’m pretty sure his motivation for posting on here isn’t to have a pop at our politicians

ah maybe it is! he has dodged the question twice now. he either has tried/intended to be politically motivated or has been told to keep his mouth shut internally within his organisation.

fuzzy dunlop

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Here's something worth a look, though it should be read with the understanding that Waterford is undershopped rather than over-retailed.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/17/uk-retail-industry--gloom-high-street-shift-consumers

And yes, I would agree with this in terms of the big retailers but where are they going to go?
We're still a proverbial 'Market Town' and in a sense there is nothing wrong in that but we've stagnated
for far too long in that outlook.

We haven't stagnated and we have never been a market town. You should really stop talking about things you clearly don't understand. And the retailers will go into the North Quays and Michael Street which is the thing we are discussing here.

fuzzy dunlop

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Here's something worth a look, though it should be read with the understanding that Waterford is undershopped rather than over-retailed.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/17/uk-retail-industry--gloom-high-street-shift-consumers

This should also be read in the context of Brexit which despite the denials is having a severe effect. These are mostly British retailers. Alhokair have a more diverse portfolio.

fuzzy dunlop

Gardner wrote: »

Gavlor wrote: »

He had already answered it. Why the need to go into further detail??

I’m pretty sure his motivation for posting on here isn’t to have a pop at our politicians

ah maybe it is! he has dodged the question twice now. he either has tried/intended to be politically motivated or has been told to keep his mouth shut internally within his organisation.

Hey this isn't a 911/JFK conspiracy theory thread. Paranoia, straw clasping and hypocrisy in one post is a new one. The answer is in the link you posted. It has been settled. Whatever intrigue you suspect, it appears you haven't got the balls to say what it is....

fargojones123

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Confused, The plan is to redevelop a prime piece of brown field water frontage that is within the City boundary on the other side of the river and link it to the centre with a new bridge while also developing the Michael Street/Newgate Street area. That Ferrybank carbuncle will never be used for retail I reckon (unless maybe the Fawaz Alhokair Group can get it for a knockdown price )

Yeah, with the North Quay development the Ferrybank "Shopping" Centre is pretty much dead.