€300M Investment into Waterford City

Johnboy1951

fargojones123 wrote: »

Yeah, with the North Quay development the Ferrybank "Shopping" Centre is pretty much dead.

But it will be nicely positioned for other uses, such as office space.
Was there not a recent application for change of use for this building before KKCC?

fargojones123

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

But it will be nicely positioned for other uses, such as office space.
Was there not a recent application for change of use for this building before KKCC?

Last I heard, it was still going to be a shopping centre just the amount of shops was going to change.

Gardner

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Hey this isn't a 911/JFK conspiracy theory thread. Paranoia, straw clasping and hypocrisy in one post is a new one. The answer is in the link you posted. It has been settled. Whatever intrigue you suspect, it appears you haven't got the balls to say what it is....

well he tweeted recently his thanks to John Halligan for all his work. so how do we take what he posts here as fact when he tweets the opposite?

DubToDeise

Traffic at the Williamstown roundabout was a disgrace this morning. Not sure how they're looking at putting another bridge crossing down there.

fuzzy dunlop

DubToDeise wrote: »

Traffic at the Williamstown roundabout was a disgrace this morning. Not sure how they're looking at putting another bridge crossing down there.

People say stuff like this as if the traffic would be going one way.

DubToDeise

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

People say stuff like this as if the traffic would be going one way.

I know how traffic works. The new bridge won't change the fact that the ring road funnels into one lane there. Unless they work out a way to go dual carriageway from the new bridge to ring road, that Solas Centre to hospital stretch is going to be a nightmare. Of course, that bridge has yet to be confirmed.

Harry Palmr

DubToDeise wrote: »

I know how traffic works. The new bridge won't change the fact that the ring road funnels into one lane there. Unless they work out a way to go dual carriageway from the new bridge to ring road, that Solas Centre to hospital stretch is going to be a nightmare. Of course, that bridge has yet to be confirmed.

Improving that stretch is fairly easy if they really wanted to, take out the verges both sides and keep the 50 kph speed limit

fuzzy dunlop

DubToDeise wrote: »

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

People say stuff like this as if the traffic would be going one way.

I know how traffic works. The new bridge won't change the fact that the ring road funnels into one lane there. Unless they work out a way to go dual carriageway from the new bridge to ring road, that Solas Centre to hospital stretch is going to be a nightmare. Of course, that bridge has yet to be confirmed.

If only the world were that simple. If it was that easy there would be nobody bothering with things like traffic management or developing things like traffic management software. You are only thinking of what a new bridge would add. It will also subtract. The current situation is traffic from all over the South is approaching the area from basically one direction because there is only one bridge. The second bridge in the area may or may not alleviate this. Even if it doesn't it might have a positive effect in other parts of the city.Its not about just that locality. Its about the whole city.

jelutong

Wouldn't it make more sense to remove or reduce the charge at the toll bridge rather than going to expense of building a new one?

fuzzy dunlop

jelutong wrote: »

Wouldn't it make more sense to remove or reduce the charge at the toll bridge rather than going to expense of building a new one?

Yes to remove the toll. No to building a new one. Removing the toll might relieve congestion in the city centre but people from the Dunmore Road area who may work near Belview might still be inclined to use Rice Bridge. For those in New Ross/SKK who wish to access the hospital removing the toll does nothing.

Gardner

you do realize that local government nor the government itself can reduce/increase the toll.

the road is owned by CRG and was built under a PPP Scheme. (another failure of Martin Cullen)

fuzzy dunlop

Gardner wrote: »

you do realize that local government nor the government itself can reduce/increase the toll.

the road is owned by CRG and was built under a PPP Scheme. (another failure of Martin Cullen)

You do realize people speak hypothetically sometimes? Like you are doing now or at least should be when talking about "another failure of Cullen". I imagine most people would be quite happy to have some of "Cullen's Failures" compared to the crumbs we have to manage in now.

Do tell! Who would have done better or have been in a position to do better than Cullen our of the Politicians that were elected or could have been elected in the last 20 years

fuzzy dunlop

Gardner wrote: »

you do realize that local government nor the government itself can reduce/increase the toll.

the road is owned by CRG and was built under a PPP Scheme. (another failure of Martin Cullen)

You do realize people speak hypothetically sometimes? Like you are doing now or at least should be when talking about "another failure of Cullen". I imagine most people would be quite happy to have some of "Cullen's Failures" compared to the crumbs we have to manage in now.

Do tell! Who would have done better or have been in a position to do better than Cullen our of the Politicians that were elected or could have been elected in the last 20 years

fuzzy dunlop

Gardner wrote: »

you do realize that local government nor the government itself can reduce/increase the toll.

the road is owned by CRG and was built under a PPP Scheme. (another failure of Martin Cullen)

You do realize people speak hypothetically sometimes? Like you are doing now or at least should be when talking about "another failure of Cullen". I imagine most people would be quite happy to have some of "Cullen's Failures" compared to the crumbs we have to manage in now.

Do tell! Who would have done better or have been in a position to do better than Cullen our of the Politicians that were elected or could have been elected in the last 20 years

Gardner

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

You do realize people speak hypothetically sometimes? Like you are doing now or at least should be when talking about "another failure of Cullen". I imagine most people would be quite happy to have some of "Cullen's Failures" compared to the crumbs we have to manage in now.

Do tell! Who would have done better or have been in a position to do better than Cullen our of the Politicians that were elected or could have been elected in the last 20 years

put it like this fuzzy, there were 5 stages of the Waterford to Dublin Motorway awarded. only 1 of the 5 were reverted into a PPP. why because Cullen failed at cabinet level to deliver what other TD's/Minister's delivered along the route.

i was involved on 3 of the 5 stages and it wasn't a simple case of costs. There was 8bn already reserved for these projects nationally anyway.

When the Construction Lab (first of it kind in civil construction) was opened in 2006 at the WBP, Martin Cullen was refused an invitation to be present for the opening as he was deemed "not important enough" by FF. Instead they sent Micheal Martin who was Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment. :rolleyes:

fuzzy dunlop

Gardner wrote: »

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

You do realize people speak hypothetically sometimes? Like you are doing now or at least should be when talking about "another failure of Cullen". I imagine most people would be quite happy to have some of "Cullen's Failures" compared to the crumbs we have to manage in now.

Do tell! Who would have done better or have been in a position to do better than Cullen our of the Politicians that were elected or could have been elected in the last 20 years

put it like this fuzzy, there were 5 stages of the Waterford to Dublin Motorway awarded. only 1 of the 5 were reverted into a PPP. why because Cullen failed at cabinet level to deliver what other TD's/Minister's delivered along the route.

i was involved on 3 of the 5 stages and it wasn't a simple case of costs. There was 8bn already reserved for these projects nationally anyway.

When the Construction Lab (first of it kind in civil construction) was opened in 2006 at the WBP, Martin Cullen was refused an invitation to be present for the opening as he was deemed "not important enough" by FF. Instead they sent Micheal Martin who was Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment. :rolleyes:

Pure opinionated and selective nonsense! The Bypass was a different project and was tolled as a respomse to the the economic downturn. Cullen wasn't a senior minister then. The M9 is the only inter urban with no toll. So by your logic which is admittedly selective Cullen should be the best thing since Christ!

You don't know why Cullen was invited to whatever shindig you are talking about! Maybe it was becaus MM is seen as an indecisive ditherer who could be easily manipulated or influenced. You don't know. You are also confusing importance with political maneuvering which is what actually happened there. IIRC Cullen asserted himself and managed to get himself invited. Thisnwas a political steike nothing more.

You still didn't answer my question about who would have done better than Cullen. Or is Robb Cass the only one obliged to do that! Go on tell us and give us a good laugh!

Gardner

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Pure opinionated and selective nonsense! The Bypass was a different project and was tolled as a respomse to the the economic downturn. Cullen wasn't a senior minister then. The M9 is the only inter urban with no toll. So by your logic which is admittedly selective Cullen should be the best thing since Christ!

You don't know why Cullen was invited to whatever shindig you are talking about! Maybe it was becaus MM is seen as an indecisive ditherer who could be easily manipulated or influenced. You don't know. You are also confusing importance with political maneuvering which is what actually happened there. IIRC Cullen asserted himself and managed to get himself invited. Thisnwas a political steike nothing more.

You still didn't answer my question about who would have done better than Cullen. Or is Robb Cass the only one obliged to do that! Go on tell us and give us a good laugh!

“Opinionated and Selective nonsense!” no sweetheart far from it. As a previously stated I was involved at management level on 3 of the 5 stages. The BP wasn’t a different project. The M9 starts at the Quarry Road Roundabout and Stage 2 Waterford to Knocktopher started at chainage 2900 approximately, just south of the R448 Flyover. The tender drawings/specification of the BP were incorporated into the overall M9 construction (stage 3,4 &5) that were dated in 2001 long before the “downturn” (original M9 details drawn up in 1994 - Stage 1&2). The Bill of Quantities and final Tender Drawings/Specifications were dated July 2004 when Martin Cullen was Minister of Transport. The Main Contractor’s Ascon/Dragados (Ascon now Bam) took possession of the Site in April 2006 when the Subcontract was signed and early Accommodation Works commenced (Martin Cullen still minister of Transport). Your quote of “The M9 is the only inter urban with no toll” has no relevance whatsoever.

“You don't know why Cullen was invited to whatever shindig you are talking about” I do know because I was present at it. “IIRC Cullen asserted himself and managed to get himself invited” he wasn’t invited and didn’t attend….. Remember I was there!

Rob Cass has come on here and had a pop at John Halligan for doing nothing in regards to the NQ and then goes on Social Media and praises him along with Paudie Coffey. Now if that isn’t a contradiction I don’t know what is. So do we now take what Rob Cass has stated here as fact or is it “Opinionated and Selective nonsense”.

iseegirls

Oh great, another political debate.

azimuth17

We don't need another political debate indeed, but a couple of things deserve to be said. Cullen arrived in 1997 as Minister of State in Taoiseach's department. He finished in 2010 as Minister for Sport and Tourism. A huge amount of things were done in Waterford during that period. You may decide yourself whether Cullen deserves any credit. In light of previous and current political delivery I think he does. Gardner may have been involved in construction management of the M9 etc, but the suggestion that a senior cabinet minister would not be invited to something deeply connected to his own constituency like the By Pass is quite extraordinary. That would never be the case and the departments involved would automatically ensure that he was. That is cabinet protocol. To suggest that "Fianna Fail decided he was not important enough" and sent Micheal Martin instead is facile in the extreme and presumes a knowledge of both minister's diaries that Gardner could not possibly have. Gardner is quite obviously on the other side of the political spectrum to Cullen. Paudie Coffey by the way deserves huge credit for the North Quays, most especially the SDZ element.

fuzzy dunlop

Gardner wrote: »

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Pure opinionated and selective nonsense! The Bypass was a different project and was tolled as a respomse to the the economic downturn. Cullen wasn't a senior minister then. The M9 is the only inter urban with no toll. So by your logic which is admittedly selective Cullen should be the best thing since Christ!

You don't know why Cullen was invited to whatever shindig you are talking about! Maybe it was becaus MM is seen as an indecisive ditherer who could be easily manipulated or influenced. You don't know. You are also confusing importance with political maneuvering which is what actually happened there. IIRC Cullen asserted himself and managed to get himself invited. Thisnwas a political steike nothing more.

You still didn't answer my question about who would have done better than Cullen. Or is Robb Cass the only one obliged to do that! Go on tell us and give us a good laugh!

“Opinionated and Selective nonsense!” no sweetheart far from it. As a previously stated I was involved at management level on 3 of the 5 stages. The BP wasn’t a different project. The M9 starts at the Quarry Road Roundabout and Stage 2 Waterford to Knocktopher started at chainage 2900 approximately, just south of the R448 Flyover. The tender drawings/specification of the BP were incorporated into the overall M9 construction (stage 3,4 &5) that were dated in 2001 long before the “downturn” (original M9 details drawn up in 1994 - Stage 1&2). The Bill of Quantities and final Tender Drawings/Specifications were dated July 2004 when Martin Cullen was Minister of Transport. The Main Contractor’s Ascon/Dragados (Ascon now Bam) took possession of the Site in April 2006 when the Subcontract was signed and early Accommodation Works commenced (Martin Cullen still minister of Transport). Your quote of “The M9 is the only inter urban with no toll” has no relevance whatsoever.

“You don't know why Cullen was invited to whatever shindig you are talking about” I do know because I was present at it. “IIRC Cullen asserted himself and managed to get himself invited” he wasn’t invited and didn’t attend….. Remember I was there!

Rob Cass has come on here and had a pop at John Halligan for doing nothing in regards to the NQ and then goes on Social Media and praises him along with Paudie Coffey. Now if that isn’t a contradiction I don’t know what is. So do we now take what Rob Cass has stated here as fact or is it “Opinionated and Selective nonsense”.

No Sweetheart you're wrong! You even have your recessions wrong...The Bypass toll was announced in 2001 following the dot.com bubble bursting and the resultant downturn. Cullen was not transport munister then. If you think the M9 having no toll has no relevance despite rhe other inter urbans having nor one but two then youbare simply nor credible.

Likewise the fact that you were at a meeting where the relevant minister was uninvited and information was dissipated that this was because he was "unimportant" should have made you smell a rat! If nothing else because of the impropriety of it which any "manager" of importamce would be aware of. It was reported that this was an attempt to undermine Cullen which is far more credible.

Everything else you posted was pretty much on the NRA website for years. But drawings are drawings. You will find drawings and plans in the National Library for a proposed tram system in Waterford from 1904 and an underground for Dublin from the same period. All nothing without dunding and the funding for the M9 was released imcremetally.

Now you can believe what gou want but the fact isif you check the LAN publications Waterford received huge funding for roads while Cullen was environmemt and transport minister. At some points Waterford City was receiving a budget almost 50% that of Dublin.

Now sweetheart you haven't been a shrinking violet about giving your opinion before even the nonsense ones! So do tell us. Who would have sone better! Hiding behind Robb's "evasiveness" as if he held court with the house of Saud is a red herring like your Cullen story.Your complaints aboit this is the double standard here.

Chiparus

Bypass cost 500 million, have to say it is a bit of a white elephant. Maybe in the future it might be used more.

Waterboy2014

This WAS an interesting thread that discussed the €300m investment into Waterford. All this motorway talk and accusations about Rob have completely hijacked it. Get back on topic or else set up your own threads about motorways etc.

Wanderer78

Chiparus wrote: »

Bypass cost 500 million, have to say it is a bit of a white elephant. Maybe in the future it might be used more.

id say the projected usage figures are off alright but it is used, id say the owners are willing to hang in there as theres no sign of strain there, i wouldn't call it a white elephant, looks well to.

Chiparus

Wanderer78 wrote: »

id say the projected usage figures are off alright but it is used, id say the owners are willing to hang in there as theres no sign of strain there, i wouldn't call it a white elephant, looks well to.

Id say the owners are hanging in there because the taxpayer is picking up the tab.

Wanderer78

Chiparus wrote: »

Id say the owners are hanging in there because the taxpayer is picking up the tab.

generally the way it is with ppp ventures

Harry Palmr

Waterboy2014 wrote: »

This WAS an interesting thread that discussed the €300m investment into Waterford. All this motorway talk and accusations about Rob have completely hijacked it. Get back on topic or else set up your own threads about motorways etc.

THIS! No one gives a monkeys to be honest.

fuzzy dunlop

Chiparus wrote: »

Bypass cost 500 million, have to say it is a bit of a white elephant. Maybe in the future it might be used more.

Only because of the toll and this phenomenan is not specific to Waterford. All the inter-urbans have this problem even more acutely. It was government stupidity not the need for the infrastructure.

The Kilcock bypass- You could almost expect tumbleweeds through that stretch of motorway. People would rather spend 30-40mins stuck un a traffic jam in a small village instead.

Chiparus

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Only because of the toll and this phenomenan is not specific to Waterford. All the inter-urbans have this problem even more acutely. It was government stupidity not the need for the infrastructure.

The Kilcock bypass- You could almost expect tumbleweeds through that stretch of motorway. People would rather spend 30-40mins stuck un a traffic jam in a small village instead.

Even if there was no toll, it is not really useful at all. I take it sometimes but it does not really save time for me gettiing from Ardkeen to the M9

Wanderer78

Chiparus wrote:

Even if there was no toll, it is not really useful at all. I take it sometimes but it does not really save time for me gettiing from Ardkeen to the M9

To be fair, many people do use it and many that do, have told me, it saves them a lot of time. It's all relative I guess, but I'm still pissed it has a toll.

Gardner

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

No Sweetheart you're wrong! You even have your recessions wrong...The Bypass toll was announced in 2001 following the dot.com bubble bursting and the resultant downturn. Cullen was not transport munister then. If you think the M9 having no toll has no relevance despite rhe other inter urbans having nor one but two then youbare simply nor credible.

Likewise the fact that you were at a meeting where the relevant minister was uninvited and information was dissipated that this was because he was "unimportant" should have made you smell a rat! If nothing else because of the impropriety of it which any "manager" of importamce would be aware of. It was reported that this was an attempt to undermine Cullen which is far more credible.

Everything else you posted was pretty much on the NRA website for years. But drawings are drawings. You will find drawings and plans in the National Library for a proposed tram system in Waterford from 1904 and an underground for Dublin from the same period. All nothing without dunding and the funding for the M9 was released imcremetally.

Now you can believe what gou want but the fact isif you check the LAN publications Waterford received huge funding for roads while Cullen was environmemt and transport minister. At some points Waterford City was receiving a budget almost 50% that of Dublin.

Now sweetheart you haven't been a shrinking violet about giving your opinion before even the nonsense ones! So do tell us. Who would have sone better! Hiding behind Robb's "evasiveness" as if he held court with the house of Saud is a red herring like your Cullen story.Your complaints aboit this is the double standard here.

Fuzzy Fuzzy Fuzzy :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

You stated “The Bypass toll was announced in 2001 following the dot.com bubble bursting and the resultant downturn. Cullen was not transport munister then” eh this is what I said above minus the dot.com bubble bursting. And for a matter of fact the “dot.com bubble bursting” played zero impact on funding as stage 1 &2 had been completed and 3&4 where already earmarked and had initial early stages of funding approved. Even on stage 5 the government parted with 300m for the early packages and costs involved in CPO’s. the construction cost mounted to 350m. Cullen failed by not securing the 350m for construction costs while stages 1 to 4 were fully government funded. Simple as that! Just for your benefit CRG didn’t pay one simple iota for any parts of the CPO or early stage Works.

You stated “Likewise the fact that you were at a meeting where the relevant minister was uninvited and information was dissipated” again read what I wrote, I attending the opening not a “meeting” and he was never invited to be “uninvited”.

You stated “Everything else you posted was pretty much on the NRA website for years” excellent im happy for you that you found them now I hope you educate yourself on the matter instead of posting “Opinionated and Selective nonsense!”

You stated “Who would have sone better! Hiding behind Robb's "evasiveness" I do enjoy your spelling and grammar mistakes throughout your post but to answer your question, the simple answer isn’t Ollie Wilkinson or Brendan Kenneally. You have to deal with the cards you were dealt. We can’t go back and say if this person was elected he would have been a good minister (thats simply nonsensical). Cullen was best of a bad bunch ( doesn’t say much about him) in FF locally and when he went onto national level as a minister in various department(s) his incompetence and lack of transparency followed him. Mr Cass either answer the questions or ignore them. simple as that.