€300M Investment into Waterford City

fuzzy dunlop

BBM77 wrote: »

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Just listening to someone from the council on the WLR business programme, nothing of any interest said (or any enthusiasm expressed) by the head of the Michael Walsh (I think it was) who has a very downbeat style in his presentation I must say. I'd not be rushing to a public forum he was a key speaker at, engaging the listener is vital how else does one sell a message?

Are you for real? Michael Walsh has done an incredible job for Waterford since he became the city manager/council CEO. Your comments are harsh to put it mildly. Before Michael Walsh became the city manager/council CEO all the city council seemed to be interested in was building roads around the city. The city centre was starting to die and that was even before the economic crash in 2008. The city centre is fair from dying now and a large part of that is down to the efforts Michael Walsh and his team. Before Michael Walsh the whole tourism product of the Viking triangle did not exist and jobs associated. I heard one of the people who came up with the idea of the greenway say they could not get the idea of the ground until Michael Walsh came onboard. He generally understands the importance of the city centre. Before Michael Walsh the council seemed to have no clue of how important a vibrant city centre is.

I know I have gone on a bit and of topic. But I think Michael Walsh and his team deserve our praise and support for what they are doing. We all know that they have to do it with little help from our frankly pathetic TD’s.

PS I did go to a public forum where he was a key speaker and his talk was one of the best talks I have heard.

I would agree with what you are saying except for the idea that the council were only interested in "building roads'. This is not true. Michael Walsh's predecessor Conn Murray was on the ball as well. He is now I believe the CEO in Limerick. Conn Murray was the one who had to contend with the serial objection phenomenan more than anyone and was despised by them for telling the truth. And thatnwas if the retail element of the city centre did not expand then the centre would die.

Max Powers

Basically waiting on BP to say something in July...I think the petrol station objector has potential to delay cause problems....if this doesn't happen/delayed because of one man's greed,I don't know what could happen.

Waterboy2014

Max Powers wrote: »

Basically waiting on BP to say something in July...I think the petrol station objector has potential to delay cause problems....if this doesn't happen/delayed because of one man's greed,I don't know what could happen.

When you say delay, do you mean that it could be delayed even beyond July. I'm guessing the hope that these objections would be withdrawn is fading!!!

I think R&H building to be demolished in coming weeks and in fairness, still loads of work going on in background. Conditional contracts are die to be signed in coming weeks and it is my understanding that detailed designs for building and infrastructure will proceed without ABP Decision.

Johnboy1951

Max Powers wrote: »

Basically waiting on BP to say something in July...I think the petrol station objector has potential to delay cause problems....if this doesn't happen/delayed because of one man's greed,I don't know what could happen.

I think it is rather harsh to call it greed when he is trying to protect his assets and livelihood.
If a solid offer is on the table that properly compensates him then that is a different matter ...... but I am not aware that there is such an offer .......

Deiseen

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Max Powers wrote: »

Basically waiting on BP to say something in July...I think the petrol station objector has potential to delay cause problems....if this doesn't happen/delayed because of one man's greed,I don't know what could happen.

I think it is rather harsh to call it greed when he is trying to protect his assets and livelihood.
If a solid offer is on the table that properly compensates him then that is a different matter ...... but I am not aware that there is such an offer .......

Do you that the CPO process in Ireland pays peanuts? Because if it did then the entire CPO process would fall apart.

Now, if you are looking for an SDZ price for a non SDZ piece of land then that's a different story and that could be called being greedy.

Wanderer78

Max Powers wrote:

Basically waiting on BP to say something in July...I think the petrol station objector has potential to delay cause problems....if this doesn't happen/delayed because of one man's greed,I don't know what could happen.

Maybe we should be questioning the greed of 'rent extractive' processes such as these type of investments?

Johnboy1951

Deiseen wrote: »

Do you that the CPO process in Ireland pays peanuts? Because if it did then the entire CPO process would fall apart.

Now, if you are looking for an SDZ price for a non SDZ piece of land then that's a different story and that could be called being greedy.

No I don't ....... but neither do I know if an offer has been made, do you?
Is that offer, if made, sufficient in your opinion?

fuzzy dunlop

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

Do you that the CPO process in Ireland pays peanuts? Because if it did then the entire CPO process would fall apart.

Now, if you are looking for an SDZ price for a non SDZ piece of land then that's a different story and that could be called being greedy.

No I don't ....... but neither do I know if an offer has been made, do you?
Is that offer, if made, sufficient in your opinion?

The process is well established and there is too much precedent for him to claim he will be ripped off. He will get way above the market value that will reflect loss of buisness and his legal costs. Here is a link and the complete process is found theough a link within that page. And eveb if ABP rule against him and his business is CPO'd he can still appeal the valuation to an independent arbiter.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/losing_your_home/compulsory_purchase_and_compensation.html

fuzzy dunlop

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Max Powers wrote:

Basically waiting on BP to say something in July...I think the petrol station objector has potential to delay cause problems....if this doesn't happen/delayed because of one man's greed,I don't know what could happen.

Maybe we should be questioning the greed of 'rent extractive' processes such as these type of investments?

Maybe we shouldn't. Maybe we start calling out fantasists who because they have read a couple of books think the normal economic rules don't apply to Waterford. The petrol station owner knows this was un the pipelime for 20 years. The other objection is frankly off the wall altogether with no substance other than buzz words. Someone who states this development will only benefit the 600 people he "thinks" will only live there clearly has limited world view and zero understanding of the proposal.

Wanderer78

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Maybe we shouldn't. Maybe we start calling out fantasists who because they have read a couple of books think the normal economic rules don't apply to Waterford. The petrol station owner knows this was un the pipelime for 20 years. The other objection is frankly off the wall altogether with no substance other than buzz words. Someone who states this development will only benefit the 600 people he "thinks" will only live there clearly has limited world view and zero understanding of the proposal.

its important to realise, i generally dont read books for obvious reasons, but there is something fundamentally going wrong with our economic thinking, globally, i class this as 'clearly obvious'

fuzzy dunlop

Wanderer78 wrote: »

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Maybe we shouldn't. Maybe we start calling out fantasists who because they have read a couple of books think the normal economic rules don't apply to Waterford. The petrol station owner knows this was un the pipelime for 20 years. The other objection is frankly off the wall altogether with no substance other than buzz words. Someone who states this development will only benefit the 600 people he "thinks" will only live there clearly has limited world view and zero understanding of the proposal.

its important to realise, i generally dont read books for obvious reasons, but there is something fundamentally going wrong with our economic thinking, globally, i class this as 'clearly obvious'

Do tell!

Wanderer78

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Do tell!

in what sense?

Max Powers

Wanderer78 wrote: »

in what sense?

Forget it, all we'll get is some rubbish read or watched on YouTube, we have been over your nonsense time and time again, you don't know what you are on about, e.g. last time you said we could set up our own bank and borrow from ourselves and if we defaulted, it wouldn't matter....complete and utter sh1t. You can't explain this rubbish because it is rubbish you are talking, the last article you posted was basically a credit union in a different name. I think you need to stop posting these one line brain farts you are so fond of.

Max Powers

Wanderer78 wrote: »

in what sense?

Forget it, all we'll get is some rubbish read or watched on YouTube, we have been over your nonsense time and time again, you don't know what you are on about, e.g. last time you said we could set up our own bank and borrow from ourselves and if we defaulted, it wouldn't matter....complete and utter sh1t. You can't explain this rubbish because it is rubbish you are talking, the last article you posted was basically a credit union in a different name. I think you need to stop posting these one line brain farts you are so fond of.

Wanderer78

Max Powers wrote: »

Forget it, all we'll get is some rubbish read or watched on YouTube, we have been over your nonsense time and time again, you don't know what you are on about, e.g. last time you said we could set up our own bank and borrow from ourselves and if we defaulted, it wouldn't matter....complete and utter sh1t. You can't explain this rubbish because it is rubbish you are talking, the last article you posted was basically a credit union in a different name. I think you need to stop posting these one line brain farts you are so fond of.

seriously lads, my opinions are peer reviewed and none peer reviewed supported, some of which supported by noble laureates such as joe stiglitz etc, i truly would recommend reading this stuff for yourselves. your 'credit union' comments are related to 'public banking', and im not alone on this forum about the benefits of such as system, if you want to research more on the matter, id recommend the work of people such as ellen brown, bill black, steve keen, michael hudson and richard wolff, all recommend such as system. again, ive explained why i struggle to explain myself by text, thank you

fuzzy dunlop

Wanderer78 wrote: »

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Do tell!

in what sense?

Mostly through grave lies with extreme consequences for a third party. Such as a false rape accusation. The person I have in mind for five years made the lives of neighbours hell and what was truly amazing looking at it from the outside was the level of shameless lies that this person would tell to get them out of trouble for five minutes. A litany of them! The person "ticked" all the right victim boxes such as unemployed single parent who could not pay bills. Yet they could go on holiday every six weeks. Imagine that! It all came to ahead when the person falsely accused a utility  worker of  rape. Some poor slob with three young sons in a mediocre job! Should this evil individual be locked up? Abso-f**kinglutely!

fuzzy dunlop

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Max Powers wrote: »

Forget it, all we'll get is some rubbish read or watched on YouTube, we have been over your nonsense time and time again, you don't know what you are on about, e.g. last time you said we could set up our own bank and borrow from ourselves and if we defaulted, it wouldn't matter....complete and utter sh1t. You can't explain this rubbish because it is rubbish you are talking, the last article you posted was basically a credit union in a different name. I think you need to stop posting these one line brain farts you are so fond of.

seriously lads, my opinions are peer reviewed and none peer reviewed supported, some of which supported by noble laureates such as joe stiglitz etc, i truly would recommend reading this stuff for yourselves. your 'credit union' comments are related to 'public banking', and im not alone on this forum about the benefits of such as system, if you want to research more on the matter, id recommend the work of people such as ellen brown, bill black, steve keen, michael hudson and richard wolff, all recommend such as system. again, ive explained why i struggle to explain myself by text, thank you

We might read them if you posted links.....

Max Powers

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

We might read them if you posted links.....

Don't ask that, its crap like posted before, seriously, wanderer backed up his borrow from ourselves with no consequences/problems with that german credit union stuff, we have them, if any of this made sense, it could be explained easily enough taking into account the usual rules of generating capital, what happens on default, etc etc.....all ignored in any of his posts / attachments.

TheQuietFella

This just wouldn't have happened in Dublin!

When you look at the work currently being done at the Docklands
and the plans for the Dublin Metro. Work being planned for the Central Plaza
at College Green! A new terminal at Dublin Airport and runway extension!
A new Luas line and Lord knows what else to come!

Planners here really need to examine why these delays are happening?
Is there that much of a difference between procedures in the two cities?
Do people here think that major investors think that Waterford is worth the wait or will they just move on and find another location?

I personally think what it all boils down to is the culchie mentality!
Reluctance or unwillingness to change. I said it before and I'll say it again.
Small town mentality!

Road-Hog

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Mostly through grave lies with extreme consequences for a third party. Such as a false rape accusation. The person I have in mind for five years made the lives of neighbours hell and what was truly amazing looking at it from the outside was the level of shameless lies that this person would tell to get them out of trouble for five minutes. A litany of them! The person "ticked" all the right victim boxes such as unemployed single parent who could not pay bills. Yet they could go on holiday every six weeks. Imagine that! It all came to ahead when the person falsely accused a utility  worker of  rape. Some poor slob with three young sons in a mediocre job! Should this evil individual be locked up? Abso-f**kinglutely!

What in the name of god are you talking about in above rant and what relevance does it have to this thread. I never read such horse sh1t as above

Road-Hog

TheQuietFella wrote: »

This just wouldn't have happened in Dublin!

When you look at the work currently being done at the Docklands
and the plans for the Dublin Metro. Work being planned for the Central Plaza
at College Green! A new terminal at Dublin Airport and runway extension!
A new Luas line and Lord knows what else to come!

Planners here really need to examine why these delays are happening?
Is there that much of a difference between procedures in the two cities?
Do people here think that major investors think that Waterford is worth the wait or will they just move on and find another location?

I personally think what it all boils down to is the culchie mentality!
Reluctance or unwillingness to change. I said it before and I'll say it again.
Small town mentality!

The projects you refer to above go through the same planning procedures and all carry the same risk of ‘delays’ from ‘objectors’ and I’m sure each of them will have significant submissions.....the two ‘objections’ to the SDZ process locally are nothing that can’t be overcome and I get the feeling that council expected much more robust ones from bodies such as ‘an taisce’ Etc but none lodged. Also everyone expected Kk chamber and Kk co. Co. To be major objectors but again nothing was submitted.....

fuzzy dunlop

Road-Hog wrote: »

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Mostly through grave lies with extreme consequences for a third party. Such as a false rape accusation. The person I have in mind for five years made the lives of neighbours hell and what was truly amazing looking at it from the outside was the level of shameless lies that this person would tell to get them out of trouble for five minutes. A litany of them! The person "ticked" all the right victim boxes such as unemployed single parent who could not pay bills. Yet they could go on holiday every six weeks. Imagine that! It all came to ahead when the person falsely accused a utility  worker of  rape. Some poor slob with three young sons in a mediocre job! Should this evil individual be locked up? Abso-f**kinglutely!

What in the name of god are you talking about in above rant and what relevance does it have to this thread. I never read such horse sh1t as above

Hold your horses chief. The person I was replying to is having the same conversation across two threads and I replied via an email notification So mind how you go...You're in danger of making the Quiet Fella look clever..

fuzzy dunlop

Road-Hog wrote: »

TheQuietFella wrote: »

This just wouldn't have happened in Dublin!

When you look at the work currently being done at the Docklands
and the plans for the Dublin Metro. Work being planned for the Central Plaza
at College Green! A new terminal at Dublin Airport and runway extension!
A new Luas line and Lord knows what else to come!

Planners here really need to examine why these delays are happening?
Is there that much of a difference between procedures in the two cities?
Do people here think that major investors think that Waterford is worth the wait or will they just move on and find another location?

I personally think what it all boils down to is the culchie mentality!
Reluctance or unwillingness to change. I said it before and I'll say it again.
Small town mentality!

The projects you refer to above go through the same planning procedures and all carry the same risk of ‘delays’ from ‘objectors’ and I’m sure each of them will have significant submissions.....the two ‘objections’ to the SDZ process locally are nothing that can’t be overcome and I get the feeling that council expected much more robust ones from bodies such as ‘an taisce’ Etc but none lodged. Also everyone expected Kk chamber and Kk co. Co. To be major objectors but again nothing was submitted.....

I wouldn't even bother. I'd say he goes to Dublin every now and then on Kavanaghs and that's it. If he actually lived there he'd know its the worst run capital city in Europe.

JohnC.

TheQuietFella wrote: »

This just wouldn't have happened in Dublin!

Is this the same Dublin where a Metro was publicised something like 40 years ago and still hasn't started?

fricatus

JohnC. wrote: »

Is this the same Dublin where a Metro was publicised something like 40 years ago and still hasn't started?

Or where Gay Mitchell declared he’d bring the Olympics?

BBM77

TheQuietFella wrote: »

This just wouldn't have happened in Dublin!

When you look at the work currently being done at the Docklands
and the plans for the Dublin Metro. Work being planned for the Central Plaza
at College Green! A new terminal at Dublin Airport and runway extension!
A new Luas line and Lord knows what else to come!

Planners here really need to examine why these delays are happening?
Is there that much of a difference between procedures in the two cities?
Do people here think that major investors think that Waterford is worth the wait or will they just move on and find another location?

I personally think what it all boils down to is the culchie mentality!
Reluctance or unwillingness to change. I said it before and I'll say it again.
Small town mentality!

Metro has not gone to the planning stage yet and there are already objections. Central Plaza
at College Green has a lot of people against it. Dublin Airport and runway extension again not at the planning stage yet but there would be a lot of opposition to another runway by people in north Dublin. So how exactly are these proof objections don’t happen in Dublin.

Max Powers

BBM77 wrote: »

Metro has not gone to the planning stage yet and there are already objections. Central Plaza
at College Green has a lot of people against it. Dublin Airport and runway extension again not at the planning stage yet but there would be a lot of opposition to another runway by people in north Dublin. So how exactly are these proof objections don’t happen in Dublin.

I know, that fella is so uninformed it's embarrassing for him.if you opened a paper every now and again, you'd see nearly all those Dublin projects and SDZs have had or do have objections, delays,oral hearings.

fuzzy dunlop

Max Powers wrote: »

BBM77 wrote: »

Metro has not gone to the planning stage yet and there are already objections. Central Plaza
at College Green has a lot of people against it. Dublin Airport and runway extension again not at the planning stage yet but there would be a lot of opposition to another runway by people in north Dublin. So how exactly are these proof objections don’t happen in Dublin.

I know, that fella is so uninformed it's embarrassing for him.if you opened a paper every now and again, you'd see nearly all those Dublin projects and SDZs have had or do have objections, delays,oral hearings.

I was in my 20s when Metro North was proposed ans I thought it would ne a fantastic thing . By the time I get to use an actual Metro in Dublin It will probably be as a retired trainspotter.

Frank MacDonald has a quote from somebody in one of his books. I think "The Construction.of Dublin". It's from somebody, a planner maybe who was brought in from the UK to aid in the Docklands IFSC etc. "It was the worst three months of my life" .It was quite obviously a shambles up there. Still is. Get a Luas out to Drimnagh sometime. You could almost walk faster.

gscully

An Bord Pleanala has decided to host an oral hearing into the two objections made against the North Quays development. The public may attend but will have to pay €50 if they want to make a submission. No date set yet and any decision will be made 6-8 weeks after the hearing.

Source: Darren Skelton on Twitter

Max Powers

Wlr mentioned that probably happening alright last week, seems to be common enough, especially when it comes to sdz's and major works, developments, etc.hopefully it will drive decision on a bit, once hearing takes place lively enough.