€300M Investment into Waterford City

TheQuietFella

https://www.independent.ie/business/technology/huge-blow-to-athenry-as-apple-abandons-850m-data-centre-36892840.html

Blaming the delays in the planning process and who could blame them
and I wonder will the same happen here?

fuzzy dunlop

TheQuietFella wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/business/technology/huge-blow-to-athenry-as-apple-abandons-850m-data-centre-36892840.html

Blaming the delays in the planning process and who could blame them
and I wonder will the same happen here?

No doubt you're praying for such an outcome.

Max Powers

TheQuietFella wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/business/technology/huge-blow-to-athenry-as-apple-abandons-850m-data-centre-36892840.html

Blaming the delays in the planning process and who could blame them
and I wonder will the same happen here?

That is a terrible shame...yes, same could happen here and those 2 objectors will be to blame. .the council and others brought it this far, approved by govt, designed to large extent, govt funding approved and contracts signed with client pending planning approval.it's been said numerous times before but the ability of one or a few people too scupper something wanted by the vast vast majority is ridiculous.

BBM77

Was going to post this but ye beat me to it.

Don’t think we are at the stage to worry too much yet. Appeals to An Bord Pleanala would have been factored into plans. But the risk is there and it would be better if the appeals where withdrawn.

The objection from the owner of the petrol station being CPO’d is particularly shameful. It is just a money grab pure and simple when he is already getting over the market value for the site. Is it not clear to the objectors of the importance of the North Wharf development from this

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=415759&d=1493209694

The CEO of the City and County Council said the “…the alternative is unthinkable”. CEO’s of the City and County Council’s don’t make statements like this lightly. The objector’s selfishness is unbelievable.

Johnboy1951

We cannot blame any objector who has a valid objection accepted for consideration. It is their right under the present system.

If that right should not be there then the system needs to be changed, not the objectors blamed.

BBM77

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

We cannot blame any objector who has a valid objection accepted for consideration. It is their right under the present system.

If that right should not be there then the system needs to be changed, not the objectors blamed.

What about personal responsibility for your actions?

azimuth17

"We cannot blame any objector who has a valid objection accepted for consideration. It is their right under the present system.

If that right should not be there then the system needs to be changed, not the objectors blamed."

While this is plausible Johnnyboy 1951, it represents, and no offense is meant, the politically correct view of the world. Two senseless objections, in my opinion, have the possibility to do great harm to the city we live in should things go wrong. The appeals are an abuse of democracy, one for money and one out of pure ignorance.

tonc76

BBM77 wrote: »

Was going to post this but ye beat me to it.

Don’t think we are at the stage to worry too much yet. Appeals to An Bord Pleanala would have been factored into plans. But the risk is there and it would be better if the appeals where withdrawn.

The objection from the owner of the petrol station being CPO’d is particularly shameful. It is just a money grab pure and simple when he is already getting over the market value for the site. Is it not clear to the objectors of the importance of the North Wharf development from this

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=415759&d=1493209694

The CEO of the City and County Council said the “…the alternative is unthinkable”. CEO’s of the City and County Council’s don’t make statements like this lightly. The objector’s selfishness is unbelievable.

I may have missed this but how do we know what price is being offered for the site? Also do we know what is being offered for loss of future earnings?

BBM77

tonc76 wrote: »

I may have missed this but how do we know what price is being offered for the site? Also do we know what is being offered for loss of future earnings?

If people were not getting fair compensation for CPO’d sites the whole system would have collapsed years ago. This person is no different.

TheQuietFella

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

No doubt you're praying for such an outcome.

There's no money beyond the M50!

Deiseen

tonc76 wrote: »

BBM77 wrote: »

Was going to post this but ye beat me to it.  

Don’t think we are at the stage to worry too much yet. Appeals to An Bord Pleanala would have been factored into plans. But the risk is there and it would be better if the appeals where withdrawn.

The objection from the owner of the petrol station being CPO’d is particularly shameful. It is just a money grab pure and simple when he is already getting over the market value for the site. Is it not clear to the objectors of the importance of the North Wharf development from this

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=415759&d=1493209694

The CEO of the City and County Council said the “…the alternative is unthinkable”. CEO’s of the City and County Council’s don’t make statements like this lightly. The objector’s selfishness is unbelievable.

I may have missed this but how do we know what price is being offered for the site? Also do we know what is being offered for loss of future earnings?

If this development falls through because of him then I'm sure his loss of earnings will be severe.

Deise Vu

azimuth17 wrote: »

"We cannot blame any objector who has a valid objection accepted for consideration. It is their right under the present system.

If that right should not be there then the system needs to be changed, not the objectors blamed."

While this is plausible Johnnyboy 1951, it represents, and no offense is meant, the politically correct view of the world. Two senseless objections, in my opinion, have the possibility to do great harm to the city we live in should things go wrong. The appeals are an abuse of democracy, one for money and one out of pure ignorance.

In a nutshell, we should have the ability to challenge decisions of planning authorities but what we shouldn't have is the right to drag it on for years as the Athenry pressure group have done. There should be a quick easy way of objecting, and a quick and easy decision made.

It is ridiculous objectors can go to the Supreme Court or threaten European referrals. The main objector to the Athenry project is actually an American:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/engineer-who-objects-to-apple-centre-says-power-demands-underestimated-1.3322548

Apple are apparently going to to Denmark because they have a huge renewable energy programme but, the front page of our local free paper this week is about planned objections to Windfarms in Waterford. So we have to have renewables just not in my back garden it seems. It just never ends.

Johnboy1951

azimuth17 wrote: »

"We cannot blame any objector who has a valid objection accepted for consideration. It is their right under the present system.

If that right should not be there then the system needs to be changed, not the objectors blamed."

While this is plausible Johnnyboy 1951, it represents, and no offense is meant, the politically correct view of the world. Two senseless objections, in my opinion, have the possibility to do great harm to the city we live in should things go wrong. The appeals are an abuse of democracy, one for money and one out of pure ignorance.

No offence taken

I would only point out that what seems senseless in our opinions is not the point.
The facility is there to be used, so we cannot apportion blame to anyone using it.

Maybe the system should be changed so that an objection must have some number of local signatures supporting it before it is considered?
Other scheme to try to eliminate any real abuse of the system?

Regardless what our view on the merits of any objection, all have the same rights.
For instance in the Apple case even our own High Court could not make a determination on some of the points raised, instead would have had to refer them to Europe.

Things are not necessarily as clear cut as we might wish to believe based on the scanty information we possess.

Yes I would support changing the system somewhat, but I will always err on the side of a person's right regardless.

While I might strongly disagree with someone I will always recognise their right to express their opinion and not be silenced.

Max Powers

Deiseen wrote: »

If this development falls through because of him then I'm sure his loss of earnings will be severe.

I'm not sure it will, firstly, fellas like that don't care, secondly I'm sure business in the two top garages (f-bank and butlerstown) doing fine I'd guess, certainly one in butlerstown seems busy, recently extended.at end of day, ferrybank one was up for sale not long ago, he intended to sell,CPOs are generally good price, he's not happy with good price and happy to risk screwing over the city/region for it.

looksee

Just because an objection is made, it doesn't mean it has to have an effect on the planning, if it has no merit it will be dismissed.

Deise Vu

looksee wrote: »

Just because an objection is made, it doesn't mean it has to have an effect on the planning, if it has no merit it will be dismissed.

Unfortunately we will never know if the Athenry project objectors had merit because Apple pulled the project and moved to Denmark because of the years of delay. Something they won't encounter in Green Denmark apparently. That's 300 construction jobs and 50 technical jobs gone from a rural area. Not to mention the income and corporation taxes the country will now have to forego forever more.

I don't know about the rest of you but I think the fact that 99.9% of the people of the country would have wanted this project to go ahead should have counted for something.

Johnboy1951

The main difficulty with the present system, seems to me to be the huge delays in considering and then deciding on the merits of an objection.

The system needs an overhaul, particularly with regard to the time delays encountered due to objections.

looksee

I would not argue with that - and it should not be possible to drag out a decision indefinitely either.

Harry Palmr

The law should be tight on these matters - one objection, one hearing, if overruled, one judicial review all to be completed within six months and that's your lot.

spankmemunkey

Deise Vu wrote: »

Unfortunately we will never know if the Athenry project objectors had merit because Apple pulled the project and moved to Denmark because of the years of delay. Something they won't encounter in Green Denmark apparently. That's 300 construction jobs and 50 technical jobs gone from a rural area. Not to mention the income and corporation taxes the country will now have to forego forever more.

I don't know about the rest of you but I think the fact that 99.9% of the people of the country would have wanted this project to go ahead should have counted for something.

It was absolute madness that that didn't get the go ahead as quick as possible,
I do believe in due process the right to protest, but the greater good should have won the day, ( I suppose that could be said to be a matter of opinion too)

It really does make us look foolish

Max Powers

spankmemunkey wrote: »

It really does make us look foolish

Exactly, good article in times business section about it today, reputational damage done to Ireland inc., a blow to regional development, not just athenry (west) region, all our competitors will be pointing this out when any potential future investment by any company comes up.
The loss of investment to athenry is massive, our situation here is even more critical, athenry is beside booming galway, this is a make or break for Waterford and the region.I find it incredible that one or two people would jeopardise this over their own selfish or 'I'm right,ye're all wrong' motivations.

Johnboy1951

Max Powers wrote: »

Exactly, good article in times business section about it today, reputational damage done to Ireland inc., a blow to regional development, not just athenry (west) region, all our competitors will be pointing this out when any potential future investment by any company comes up.
The loss of investment to athenry is massive, our situation here is even more critical, athenry is beside booming galway, this is a make or break for Waterford and the region.I find it incredible that one or two people would jeopardise this over their own selfish or 'I'm right,ye're all wrong' motivations.

What is incredible is that our present system allows such delays before coming to a final decision.

That is not the fault of any objector, who exercise their rights under the law.

tonc76

tonc76 wrote: »

I may have missed this but how do we know what price is being offered for the site? Also do we know what is being offered for loss of future earnings?

BBM77 wrote: »

If people were not getting fair compensation for CPO’d sites the whole system would have collapsed years ago. This person is no different.

so that's a no and a no is it?

Max Powers

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

What is incredible is that our present system allows such delays before coming to a final decision.

That is not the fault of any objector, who exercise their rights under the law.

I would say objectors have blame, they're to blame for delays, they're to blame for thinking they're better knowledge/more important than employment prospects of region and city, they're abusing the system.

Johnboy1951

Max Powers wrote: »

I would say objectors have blame, they're to blame for delays, they're to blame for thinking they're better knowledge/more important than employment prospects of region and city, they're abusing the system.

We will agree to differ.

As far as I am concerned they are exercising their rights, and the delays are all due to how their objections are dealt with.

Harry Palmr

The system will always be exploited to the maximum effect, so change the system. Everyone knows the legal gears grind remarkably slowly and expensively.

friendlyfun

Looks like Apple pulled out of Athenry for the planned data centre basically due to appeals from residents. I hope this won't happen in Waterford is this going to keep stalling.

debok

Is one of the objections to do with not providing adequate facilities for cruise liners/large vessels to dock.surely a city with such a big riverside at its centre should be aiming fir that market. That seems like a good objection to me. It's the process that takes too long.

Wanderer78

friendlyfun wrote:

Looks like Apple pulled out of Athenry for the planned data centre basically due to appeals from residents. I hope this won't happen in Waterford is this going to keep stalling.

Residents have the right to object in a democratic society, large corporations are not as helpful to society as many think, it seems like data centres do not employ as many as we re being lead to believe, and are also extremely power hungry facilities, and we also must question what is happening to all this collected data.

Max Powers

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Residents have the right to object in a democratic society, large corporations are not as helpful to society as many think, it seems like data centres do not employ as many as we re being lead to believe, and are also extremely power hungry facilities, and we also must question what is happening to all this collected data.

That's BS in fairness, they knew it was only about 50 jobs, they know they're power hungry, that's why they talked about loads of renewable (probably wouldn't cover all the power requirements obviously) and most people couldn't care less about the data in them.these objectors are abusing the system, much like someone shouting fire in a crowded cinema.