€300M Investment into Waterford City

Deiseen

Wanderer78 wrote: »

friendlyfun wrote:

Looks like Apple pulled out of Athenry for the planned data centre basically due to appeals from residents. I hope this won't happen in Waterford is this going to keep stalling.

Residents have the right to object in a democratic society, large corporations are not as helpful to society as many think, it seems like data centres do not employ as many as we re being lead to believe, and are also extremely power hungry facilities, and we also must question what is happening to all this collected data.

Dont think anyone was quoting huge job numbers outside of construction. Lack of renewables was also a mitigaging factor.

Look into things in future will you.

Deiseen

debok wrote: »

Is one of the objections to do with not providing adequate facilities for cruise liners/large vessels to dock.surely a city with such a big riverside at its centre should be aiming fir that market. That seems like a good objection to me. It's the process that takes too long.

I agree with this but i dont think anyone is saying this wont be a feature. They are making the bridge open span, no point in this if big ships cant dock on one side.

Wanderer78

Max Powers wrote:

That's BS in fairness, they knew it was only about 50 jobs, they know they're power hungry, that's why they talked about loads of renewable (probably wouldn't cover all the power requirements obviously) and most people couldn't care less about the data in them.these objectors are abusing the system, much like someone shouting fire in a crowded cinema.

So what benefits to our society would such a facility bring?

Wanderer78

Deiseen wrote:

Look into things in future will you.

Thank you, I currently am, it looks like the main objector in the data center may indeed have some credentials in the environmental sector

Max Powers

Wanderer78 wrote: »

So what benefits to our society would such a facility bring?

FFS...Well paid jobs for one.

Wanderer78

Max Powers wrote: »

That's BS in fairness, they knew it was only about 50 jobs, they know they're power hungry, that's why they talked about loads of renewable (probably wouldn't cover all the power requirements obviously) and most people couldn't care less about the data in them.these objectors are abusing the system, much like someone shouting fire in a crowded cinema.

Max Powers wrote: »

FFS...Well paid jobs for one.

is it worth potential long term and possible indefinite environmental damage for 50 jobs?

Max Powers

Wanderer78 wrote: »

is it worth potential long term and possible indefinite environmental damage for 50 jobs?

usual rubbish from you wanderer.first it was society, now the environment...That is the most ridiculous response, you could apply such a silly question to any employment practically, this isn't a coal mine, its additional power really, either generate it there or import it from somewhere else.obviously power generation somewhere else will have an environmental consequence but like I said they're not polluting rivers up there.....cop on.

...I'm just waiting for some random bull about neoliberalism

Wanderer78

Max Powers wrote: »

usual rubbish from you wanderer.first it was society, now the environment...That is the most ridiculous response, you could apply such a silly question to any employment practically, this isn't a coal mine, its additional power really, either generate it there or import it from somewhere else.obviously power generation somewhere else will have an environmental consequence but like I said they're not polluting rivers up there.....cop on.

i do believe i have copped on, thank you. we must always question plutocratic decisions and actions, and ask ourselves, do these decisions and actions always benefit all in society?

Max Powers

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i do believe i have copped on, thank you. we must always question plutocratic decisions and actions, and ask ourselves, do these decisions and actions always benefit all in society?

More random rubbish....it benefits the society in athenry/galway....I'm all for intelligent relevant questions.

Wanderer78

Max Powers wrote: »

More random rubbish....it benefits the society in athenry/galway....I'm all for intelligent relevant questions.

i await these questions. thank you

JohnC.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i do believe i have copped on, thank you. we must always question plutocratic decisions and actions, and ask ourselves, do these decisions and actions always benefit all in society?

Data centres will still be built. Just not there. Like it or not, the world largely runs on data centres now. That's not changing. There may even be multiple data centres involved in this message getting to your screen.

Johnboy1951

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Residents have the right to object in a democratic society, large corporations are not as helpful to society as many think, it seems like data centres do not employ as many as we re being lead to believe, and are also extremely power hungry facilities, and we also must question what is happening to all this collected data.

Was there any mention on how the cooling was to be achieved?
In recent years such facilities have tended to go to colder locations where the cost of cooling could be minimised.
I don't remember reading any comment on this aspect.

Wanderer78

JohnC. wrote: »

Data centres will still be built. Just not there. Like it or not, the world largely runs on data centres now. That's not changing. There may even be multiple data centres involved in this message getting to your screen.

this is correct, but we must always ask, what is happening all this data, why is it collected, what is it be used for, and does it ultimately harm us? these questions are becoming more and more relevant, particularly in the democratic process.

Wanderer78

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Was there any mention on how the cooling was to be achieved?
In recent years such facilities have tended to go to colder locations where the cost of cooling could be minimised.
I don't remember reading any comment on this aspect.

im not sure to be honest, i need to look into this. an interesting debate on david mcwilliams twitter

https://twitter.com/davidmcw/status/994502640829718528

Max Powers

Wanderer78 wrote: »

this is correct, but we must always ask, what is happening all this data, why is it collected, what is it be used for, and does it ultimately harm us? these questions are becoming more and more relevant, particularly in the democratic process.

To follow on from wanderers posting random crap....my cat's name is mittens.

Johnboy1951

Thanks for the link ........ there are a couple of links which might explain to those who wish to know, what the effects of such a huge data centre might be on this country.

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/vbzng8/one-man-in-a-tiny-irish-town-could-derail-apples-plans-for-europe

http://www.bregsforum.com/2017/10/19/the-cloud-bytes-back-how-data-centres-will-cost-ireland-dearly-look-back-19/

I would consider it an urgent need to update the planning system so that all future developments do not cost the tax-payer huge sums of money.

In this particular case I consider Mr. Daly to be a voice of reason and logic. He has done this country a great service at his own expense .... both financial and personal.
Maybe now, after this debacle, the planning procedures will be better adhered to and maybe even tightened up some more.

Max Powers

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Thanks for the link ........ there are a couple of links which might explain to those who wish to know, what the effects of such a huge data centre might be on this country.

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/vbzng8/one-man-in-a-tiny-irish-town-could-derail-apples-plans-for-europe

http://www.bregsforum.com/2017/10/19/the-cloud-bytes-back-how-data-centres-will-cost-ireland-dearly-look-back-19/

I would consider it an urgent need to update the planning system so that all future developments do not cost the tax-payer huge sums of money.

In this particular case I consider Mr. Daly to be a voice of reason and logic. He has done this country a great service at his own expense .... both financial and personal.
Maybe now, after this debacle, the planning procedures will be better adhered to and maybe even tightened up some more.

Read that second one John boy, its not bad, however he's from the environment side so would need to balance it with the other sides estimates, etc. makes a good point about our energy renewable eu targets, they should really stipulate then certain percentage of renewable for large users where appropriate, think that was part of the planning permission though...what percentages I don't know details.and to be honest if a company came over promising jobs but uses a lot of energy/water whatever in its processes, there'd need to be some kind of balance between need for jobs, reasonable renewable energy and just a realisation that every job is pretty much gonna use some resources.

Harry Palmr

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Residents have the right to object in a democratic society, large corporations are not as helpful to society as many think, it seems like data centres do not employ as many as we re being lead to believe, and are also extremely power hungry facilities, and we also must question what is happening to all this collected data.

Regardless, that two or three people can stymie a billion euro investment by using the legal system's sheer sloth is the issue here. We know there are two or three people within a stones throw who want to delay the biggest investment in retail and leisure that we'll ever see and no doubt if they are paid off enough they'll go away which is a depressing thought.

ps if you are so worried about you data being harvested get off line. No data, no web.

Deiseen

While I sympathize with a lot of what wanderer says (and actually agree mostly) his input has zilch to do with what we talk about on here and is 100% to do with changing the world and how bad the world works.

Its getting sooooo tiresome.

Wanderer78

Deiseen wrote: »

While I sympathize with a lot of what wanderer says (and actually agree mostly) his input has zilch to do with what we talk about on here and is 100% to do with changing the world and how bad the world works.

Its getting sooooo tiresome.

hmmm, many of my comments are actually based on what id call well researched work from well respected social, political and economic commentators, but anyhow...

Max Powers

Wanderer78 wrote: »

hmmm, many of my comments are actually based on what id call well researched work from well respected social, political and economic commentators, but anyhow...

Not to mention peer reviewed ...problem with copying and pasting in some crap you read is you can't explain or follow that up.

Wanderer78

Max Powers wrote:

Not to mention peer reviewed ...problem with copying and pasting in some crap you read is you can't explain or follow that up.

I've explained many times on this forum why I struggle to explain myself via text, thank you

Wanderer2010

Max Powers wrote: »

usual rubbish from you wanderer.first it was society, now the environment...That is the most ridiculous response, you could apply such a silly question to any employment practically, this isn't a coal mine, its additional power really, either generate it there or import it from somewhere else.obviously power generation somewhere else will have an environmental consequence but like I said they're not polluting rivers up there.....cop on.

...I'm just waiting for some random bull about neoliberalism

You are not great when it comes to listening to other peoples views with respect are you Max Powers?

Max Powers

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

You are not great when it comes to listening to other peoples views with respect are you Max Powers?

I'm ok I reckon, eg, John boy highlighted something I hadn't realised.I guess you could say I'm quick to tackle BS, random, irrelevant ,consistently unsupported ,unfair, biased or just general fantasy land stuff.I'm not the only person highlighted such nonsense recently.

Wanderer2010

Max Powers wrote: »

I'm ok I reckon, eg, John boy highlighted something I hadn't realised.I guess you could say I'm quick to tackle BS, random, irrelevant ,consistently unsupported ,unfair, biased or just general fantasy land stuff.I'm not the only person highlighted such nonsense recently.

The problem with you "tackling" this is that you are 100% biased that your viewpoint is the only one that matters and by association the other person is wrong, when really, you aren't qualified to make that assertion.

Max Powers

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

The problem with you "tackling" this is that you are 100% biased that your viewpoint is the only one that matters and by association the other person is wrong, when really, you aren't qualified to make that assertion.

That's simply not true and you're jumping to conclusions about me, I'm always glad to get good and accurate info,a few people on here i find are informative with good info, you have to admit, there is an awful lot of rumor, inaccurate info, biased and rubbish talked too.happy to be corrected myself but statements that can't be backed up will always be scrutinised not just by myself.attaching links or the equivalent of saying 'trust me' don't really qualify as proper backing up.I won't say anymore on it because it's not what the thread is about.

Johnboy1951

Max Powers wrote: »

Read that second one John boy, its not bad, however he's from the environment side so would need to balance it with the other sides estimates, etc. makes a good point about our energy renewable eu targets, they should really stipulate then certain percentage of renewable for large users where appropriate, think that was part of the planning permission though...what percentages I don't know details.and to be honest if a company came over promising jobs but uses a lot of energy/water whatever in its processes, there'd need to be some kind of balance between need for jobs, reasonable renewable energy and just a realisation that every job is pretty much gonna use some resources.

It would appear that the full planning guidelines were not adhered to in this case.

One therefore suspects that some things were overlooked or just accepted without proper backup information and study reports, because of the 'Apple' name and of course the huge workforce they already employ in this country, a lot of whom are highly skilled.

It is understandable that people look favourably on an existing, long standing, large employer's proposals, but I have come to the opinion that insufficient consideration was given to negative aspects of the proposed development.

It seems to me that the negatives far outweigh the benefit of having ~50 permanent jobs on site (a lot of whom would be security and not tech jobs), after the initial build phase.
.

robtri

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

It would appear that the full planning guidelines were not adhered to in this case.

One therefore suspects that some things were overlooked or just accepted without proper backup information and study reports, because of the 'Apple' name and of course the huge workforce they already employ in this country, a lot of whom are highly skilled.

It is understandable that people look favourably on an existing, long standing, large employer's proposals, but I have come to the opinion that insufficient consideration was given to negative aspects of the proposed development.

It seems to me that the negatives far outweigh the benefit of having ~50 permanent jobs on site (a lot of whom would be security and not tech jobs), after the initial build phase.
.

what planning guidelines where not adhered too?

Johnboy1951

robtri wrote: »

what planning guidelines where not adhered too?

You can read here for further info
http://www.pleanala.ie/news/245518-VA0020/R245518.pdf

The site is an isolated one, unserviced and not zoned for development and is not served by public transport. Development would be contrary to Galway County Council’s development plan.

The Board (rightly it seems) refused permission for a data centre on unzoned and unserviced lands at Newtownmountkennedy, Co. Wicklow but has approved this one for some reason.

There are lots of other concerns due to lack of information or studies of the full project. Some studies have been done but using one data hall as that is all the present proposal mentions. Splitting the project is normally unacceptable I understand.

Anyway most of the info is available through links previously posted (and linked to from there).

dzilla

Does anyone think the span of the footbrige is realistic to think people would move between both retail sections of the town?