€300M Investment into Waterford City

Bards

Baby4 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Week is over now and no news yet?

robcass78

kilkenny31 wrote: »

Just seen a comment from Rob Cass that this is not just Waterford but the whole South East and a few more counties in Ireland. Wonder what this is.

Seems to me like it might be a big retailer or something along those lines If it's across the whole South East and other counties.

Rob Cass works for Fawaz Al Hokair. Not 'Al Hokair Group.' Two different entities but understandable around confusion.

Deal done, subject to conditions being met. Agreements and JV on patents.

Won't make 'news.'

Doesn't mean I reveal it, as it's patent pending and scuppering it impact jobs so want to keep it close to chest as have to find location but it's housing and renewables related, with 1,000 jobs impact.

Starting next year.

Work to be done but as it's rocks a few vested interests, so bear with me.

It's a good week for the South East.

Waterboy2014

robcass78 wrote: »

Rob Cass works for Fawaz Al Hokair. Not 'Al Hokair Group.' Two different entities but understandable around confusion.

Deal done, subject to conditions being met. Agreements and JV on patents.

Won't make 'news.'

Doesn't mean I reveal it, as it's patent pending and scuppering it impact jobs so want to keep it close to chest as have to find location but it's housing and renewables related, with 1,000 jobs impact.

Starting next year.

Work to be done but as it's rocks a few vested interests, so bear with me.

It's a good week for the South East.

Great news Rob. Good to see you posting on this thread again. Any updates on NQ? All gone very quiet lately. Hopefully loads happening in the background?

robcass78

Waterboy2014 wrote: »

Great news Rob. Good to see you posting on this thread again. Any updates on NQ? All gone very quiet lately. Hopefully loads happening in the background?

Loads happening in the background. In a good way!!

Can't say much as politicians read these threads and get a bit miffed about some home truth's.

It's going to be fun at election time when the truth comes out on the TD who tried to undermine North Quays whilst publicly saying he supports it.

A pity our TD's don't focus on jobs & results delivery for the community, as the recent South East monitor shows the South East missed out on delivering 25,000 jobs. That's failing the whole south East and I'd get fired for missing targets. At the very least, deliver. Ideally, south East could lead Ireland in many things.

The legacy of a lost generation and 9.5bn a year loss to economy is completely a failure of governance & delivery.

This potential investment plus North Quays is €500m a year impact to South East so I can't say much as what's more important to me is jobs for our community and families. It's still small relative to the €9.5bn a year lost due to our TD's & state bodies caring more about their ego than communities as if they cared, they'd deliver their targets.

But we try our best to make an impact with what we can do, but would be so much better if we'd politicians who get stuff done for the region and nation.

Imagine how great good governance & great business could be is what I think having experienced it internationally.

Personally, results matter more to me than ego, as my kids and everyone's families depend on our results delivery but the good news is there is much bigger things afoot in the business community and at the next election hopefully communities will hold to account the woeful delivery. In their eyes they are doing a 'good job' when in reality 50,000 young leaving a region due to a lack of jobs isn't good in normal folks books. Completely out of touch with reality in my view.

Rant over. Have a good weekend as the outlook is positive.

914

Deadline closed on the 22nd of this month for the River Suir Sustainable Transport Bridge - Public Consultation. Good to see things moving along.

kuang1

13 thanks in 3 hours says a lot Rob.

But a little word of warning/scepticism...even if you were to "out" politicians when the time is right, and even if their PR people fail to counteract it successfully (yes it's an "if"), then it's still somewhat of a lottery as to who replaces them. Will they be less proud or have lesser egos? Hopefully so.

Keep up the good work. Well done.

kilkenny31

robcass78 wrote: »

Rob Cass works for Fawaz Al Hokair. Not 'Al Hokair Group.' Two different entities but understandable around confusion.

Deal done, subject to conditions being met. Agreements and JV on patents.

Won't make 'news.'

Doesn't mean I reveal it, as it's patent pending and scuppering it impact jobs so want to keep it close to chest as have to find location but it's housing and renewables related, with 1,000 jobs impact.

Starting next year.

Work to be done but as it's rocks a few vested interests, so bear with me.

It's a good week for the South East.

Thanks for your reply. The one question I would have is are these jobs going to be skilled jobs and degree level jobs or unskilled.

Deiseen

kilkenny31 wrote: »

robcass78 wrote: »

Rob Cass works for Fawaz Al Hokair. Not 'Al Hokair Group.' Two different entities but understandable around confusion.

Deal done, subject to conditions being met. Agreements and JV on patents.

Won't make 'news.'

Doesn't mean I reveal it, as it's patent pending and scuppering it impact jobs so want to keep it close to chest as have to find location but it's housing and renewables related, with 1,000 jobs impact.

Starting next year.

Work to be done but as it's rocks a few vested interests, so bear with me.

It's a good week for the South East.

Thanks for your reply. The one question I would have is are these jobs going to be skilled jobs and degree level jobs or unskilled.

Pretty much every job outside of retail/hospitality these days are skilled. 1000 set of wages into the local/regional economy will create demand for more unskilled jovs

Wanderer78

kilkenny31 wrote:

Thanks for your reply. The one question I would have is are these jobs going to be skilled jobs and degree level jobs or unskilled.

Being mainly a retail project, I'd imagine a large portion of these jobs would be of a precarious nature, but of course it will create a large amount of construction employment during that phase. Interesting and exciting times for waterford though, this project could completely transform the city. Thank you rob cass for your input and information

robcass78

kilkenny31 wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. The one question I would have is are these jobs going to be skilled jobs and degree level jobs or unskilled.

Isn't every job good when 5,000 young people leave the region each year due to a lack of jobs and delivery by our elected representatives and our non-elected civil servants & public sector?

And the roles are counter recession / recession-Brexit proof so that's important for me in the next few years when / if the **** storm hits the South East as there is no credible plan for Brexit under the four scenarios.

It's involved in a patent for technology so it's a mix of high & low, with patent to be registered in Ireland, as it's exportable as I see international opportunity far higher than South East, but the jobs are based here.

Good point on calibre of politicians or whoever comes after those who hopefully will go; we have to start putting higher calibre people into positions.

In any case let the community decide when the truth comes out as people aren't stupid to buy PR nor lies; our BS detectors or

There are a few there; with integrity & drive and a 'do right' mindset.

We need more, so that the few a) don't get ground down or drink their own as there is a bubble around reality or b) bullied by their party to subserviantly tow party line over putting their community & electorate first. We need leadership & folk that can think, not sheep.

What would also help is a simple dashboard on a website the Council and state depts delivery; homes built, jobs created (high & low), tourism & retail, carbon footprint, waiting times which is easy to do, but hated by public sector as it means having to show results and outputs. Waterford is the only city without one; all others have it. We allow that to be the case so i'd love someone to create a dashboard showing results. Or opportunities.

So, we are our own masters of our success (or current failure) as we get what we measure.

Example; if you asked Council/state bodies or TD's what the 350m north Quays investment in the region creates in terms of jobs & economic impact a year, or it's delay due to politics ('funding application to Ireland 2040' when Council could have entered into partnership and secured funding a year ago with government), how many could point to a dashboard or tell the 6,500 jobs / community the impact?

robcass78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Being mainly a retail project, I'd imagine a large portion of these jobs would be of a precarious nature, but of course it will create a large amount of construction employment during that phase. Interesting and exciting times for waterford though, this project could completely transform the city. Thank you rob cass for your input and information

It's not mainly a retail project. And retail jobs aren't low value as a) 30k isn't low and b) retail spent here has a five-fold multiplier impact in the Economy; every Euro on retail is five euro in ecomony, or 1 job is 5 jobs.

There's also 1,000 tech workers into the offices. Which have a multipler effect too. And 250 tourism jobs, which have a fourfold multipler.

The construction impact is small at 350m relative to the ongoing annual impact of 220m a year to the regions taxpayers. Which I hope we all say to politicians 'keep that 220m in the region by investing in Cathlab, university & affordable homes.'

But I doubt our politicians understand the money involved, the benefits and the tax impacts to say 'keep it here, not Dublin.'

robcass78

kilkenny31 wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. The one question I would have is are these jobs going to be skilled jobs and degree level jobs or unskilled.

And degree doesn't imply neither 'skilled' nor productive; trade & coding are just as important as someone with a degree. You don't need a degree to have a positive impact on society.

I'd argue that degree and Irish education system creates debt & dependency rather than leadership & the ability for critical reason or (social) entrepreneurship or trade or digital skills or sustainability skills.

WIT has 5,000 leave the region each year as if the 5,000 were equipped to build their own companies, many would stay, rather than 'graduate to a job in a multinational, live 10 years at home with Mam & Dad due to debt and high home & living costs/broken housing/transport, financial & public sector system'; it isn't a model of society that is effectively working and no amount of central money will fix that as hypothetically doubling funding to WIT would see 10,000 leave the region on higher staff costs; that 10,000 leaving is a mindset not a money or funding issue.

And I've a masters so don't assume I'm not a fan of education. I am. But not a fan of the education system that churns out sheep into serving multinationals and stress out a young generation with debt, as there is alternative models & systems.

This is off topic to the board but it is important to the 6,500 jobs North Quays will create; dept of jobs nor WIT haven't even spoken to me on 'how do we create a pipeline of talent for the 6.500' as those jobs will be created before the current 1st years of WIT leave. That's illustrating the disconnect between Dept of jobs, WIT and others as in other countries they are integrated and pro-active. They'd have a dedicated programme on jobs pipeline. Here, nothing as it would involve working across departments to deliver outcome jobs. I'd love the 6,500 to come from the region and for our best talent to stay, but it's looking like those in the region are likely to leave due to a lack of visibility in what's coming down-the-line, as talent wants job pipeline visibility for 4-5 years, rather than wait for 'now I need to find a job' that is a need for a job, rather than a 'want to do this job to make a difference for my community & region.'

Wanderer78

robcass78 wrote:

It's not mainly a retail project. And retail jobs aren't low value as a) 30k isn't low and b) retail spent here has a five-fold multiplier impact in the Economy; every Euro on retail is five euro in ecomony, or 1 job is 5 jobs.

Thanks again rob, but I'd have to somewhat disagree with your analysis of retail economics, the monetary aspect of this sector is only one aspect of it, the more important part is the precarious nature of this industry, with things such as zero hour contracts etc. I actually know some professionals, non-retail, who have become stuck in the 30-40 k range, and with spiralling costs of living, in particular housing, we actually have a major problem.

Since we ve effectively monitised everything, we seem to somewhat ignore the precarious nature of our working conditions, leading some commentators to use terms such as 'increasing worker insecurity' to try explain them. This in fact is extremely dangerous for the stability of our overall economy. You d also be surprised at the amount of well qualified people that end up in these precarious retail jobs.

I'd also have major issues with encouraging retail as it links back to our overall consumption ideologies, but that's are argument for another day.

It is great to hear that this project is so much more than just retail, and I wish you and this project the very best in celebrating its success, as I'm sure it will be, I'd imagine you have majority of support from the locals, including myself. Best of luck and thank you

Once again I thank you for your input and work involved in this project

robcass78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Thanks again rob, but I'd have to somewhat disagree with your analysis of retail economics, the monetary aspect of this sector is only one aspect of it, the more important part is the precarious nature of this industry, with things such as zero hour contracts etc. I actually know some professionals, non-retail, who have become stuck in the 30-40 k range, and with spiralling costs of living, in particular housing, we actually have a major problem.

Since we ve effectively monitised everything, we seem to somewhat ignore the precarious nature of our working conditions, leading some commentators to use terms such as 'increasing worker insecurity' to try explain them. This in fact is extremely dangerous for the stability of our overall economy. You d also be surprised at the amount of well qualified people that end up in these precarious retail jobs.

I'd also have major issues with encouraging retail as it links back to our overall consumption ideologies, but that's are argument for another day.

It is great to hear that this project is so much more than just retail, and I wish you and this project the very best in celebrating its success, as I'm sure it will be, I'd imagine you have majority of support from the locals, including myself. Best of luck and thank you

Once again I thank you for your input and work involved in this project

Happy to help our region; also agree on consumerism. The Swedish 'mall' on recycling & upcycling would be ideal but don't think Ireland is ready for it. Yet.

Waterboy2014

robcass78 wrote: »

Happy to help our region; also agree on consumerism. The Swedish 'mall' on recycling & upcycling would be ideal but don't think Ireland is ready for it. Yet.

Great to read your views Rob. Don't suppose you want to share some updated timelines on NQs??? Heard Michael Walsh on WLR say that development won't probably start until the end of Q2 2019. He also mentioned that application for Urban Regeneration Fund has not yet been submitted and that he hopes developers planning application will be submitted before year end? Anything more specific on timeframes?

Wanderer78

robcass78 wrote:

Happy to help our region; also agree on consumerism. The Swedish 'mall' on recycling & upcycling would be ideal but don't think Ireland is ready for it. Yet.

Fair play to you rob, we need more people like yourself driving such initiatives, we need to believe more in ourselves and our own people that such things are possible, we need to do so to move forward. I'm not aware of the Swedish model you speak of, apologies, I'm aware it's off topic, but would be grateful for more information as I also have an interest in such matters? Thanks again

robcass78

Waterboy2014 wrote: »

Great to read your views Rob. Don't suppose you want to share some updated timelines on NQs??? Heard Michael Walsh on WLR say that development won't probably start until the end of Q2 2019. He also mentioned that application for Urban Regeneration Fund has not yet been submitted and that he hopes developers planning application will be submitted before year end? Anything more specific on timeframes?

All depends on getting government funding. With 200m benefit a year ongoing to taxpayer once built and 350m construction outlay, the taxpayers 65m gets a good return, as the 65m is spent on infrastructure companies, which creates jobs too.

So IF government evaluates the benefits over just a year period, which would be highly unusual, it's an in-year payback.

If over ten years, as it's an infrastructure project, it's 2bn vs 65m outlay; a 30 fold return for each Euro outlay.

It also is 2,500 jobs on site directly which on a multipler of 4 is 10,000 jobs.

I doubt any of the other regions 'roads & motorway' projects give such a return in terms of jobs.

However, there is only 100m available nationally for the fund next year, the decision criteria aren't clear for the government fund, such as social or economic impact, and state bodies like IDA South East could intervene to block it yet as they haven't talked up or have been involved at all. Quite the opposite.

Being cashflow positive next year to government (it brings in a surplus income of over 200m, which is 20% of the total country surplus) there is no rational reason not to do North Quays.

Things that concern is for such a large project, there's not a dedicated team working on it in the region or Dublin (be that engaging the community, marketing North Quays to overseas for the offices, infrastructure, renewables & sustainability), which implies it's not taken seriously as I ask myself 'what gets a team, if 10,000 jobs don't?'

But Ireland decision-making isn't rational. And in the absence of criteria, it's far from over the line.

robcass78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Fair play to you rob, we need more people like yourself driving such initiatives, we need to believe more in ourselves and our own people that such things are possible, we need to do so to move forward. I'm not aware of the Swedish model you speak of, apologies, I'm aware it's off topic, but would be grateful for more information as I also have an interest in such matters? Thanks again

Am just doing what the region needs and hopefully more kids, including my own, will stay rather than leave, as one in four leave the region as it is. I want to try to change it where I can. NQ plus Michael St plus the new investments coming will help a little.

We can all do our part to help is my view.

Here's the Swedish mall.

https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/sweden-opens-worlds-first-mall-repaired-recycled-goods/

Wanderer78

robcass78 wrote:

Am just doing what the region needs and hopefully more kids, including my own, will stay rather than leave, as one in four leave the region as it is. I want to try to change it where I can. NQ plus Michael St plus the new investments coming will help a little.

I don't know what to say to that but I have massive admiration for your thinking and actions, it has greatly upset and angered me on what has happened our region and indeed our country, particularly over the last couple of decades, we need new economic, political, environmental etc etc narratives, and we need them quickly. We need these to help ourselves and younger generations futures. I wish you and your families future the very best, and thank you again.

Johnboy1951

robcass78 wrote: »

Am just doing what the region needs and hopefully more kids, including my own, will stay rather than leave, as one in four leave the region as it is. I want to try to change it where I can. NQ plus Michael St plus the new investments coming will help a little.

We can all do our part to help is my view.

Here's the Swedish mall.

https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/sweden-opens-worlds-first-mall-repaired-recycled-goods/

That mall ...... and the work and attitude that feeds it ...... is very sadly lacking in Ireland (or is definitely not apparent).

We really do need to have a serious shift in our attitude to recycling.

It does not help of course when we have 'Recycle Centres' dedicated to destruction and stripping rather than repair and re-use. If you spot something that would be useful to you in such a centre, you cannot have it .... it must be destroyed!

The 'throw-away' attitude has been encouraged and pushed to generate more new product sales, much to the detriment of society, and our economy which relies mostly on imports of these goods.

I doubt I will live to see this change but I will do so in the hope that it happens.

robcass78

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

That mall ...... and the work and attitude that feeds it ...... is very sadly lacking in Ireland (or is definitely not apparent).

We really do need to have a serious shift in our attitude to recycling.

It does not help of course when we have 'Recycle Centres' dedicated to destruction and stripping rather than repair and re-use. If you spot something that would be useful to you in such a centre, you cannot have it .... it must be destroyed!

The 'throw-away' attitude has been encouraged and pushed to generate more new product sales, much to the detriment of society, and our economy which relies mostly on imports of these goods.

I doubt I will live to see this change but I will do so in the hope that it happens.

Put a proposal into climate action fund on it. Ferrybank shopping centre would be ideal.

Or out at ireland south East airport as international visitors would love it, particularly Chinese and European.

Bards

Seems like what Waterford Group Link are doing already albeit on a smaller scale

http://loavesandfisheswaterford.com

Wanderer78

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

That mall ...... and the work and attitude that feeds it ...... is very sadly lacking in Ireland (or is definitely not apparent).

We really do need to have a serious shift in our attitude to recycling.

It does not help of course when we have 'Recycle Centres' dedicated to destruction and stripping rather than repair and re-use. If you spot something that would be useful to you in such a centre, you cannot have it .... it must be destroyed!

The 'throw-away' attitude has been encouraged and pushed to generate more new product sales, much to the detriment of society, and our economy which relies mostly on imports of these goods.

I doubt I will live to see this change but I will do so in the hope that it happens.

even though i understand your opinions on such matters, i actually think you might be wrong in ways, you d be surprised of the amount of people that realise our current economic policies are deeply flawed, and are largely causing our wide scale environmental degradation. ive been lucky enough to have met many people, including younger people that realise this, and have interesting ideas on how we can change this, but change wont come easy, the forces keeping the status quo are great, but we cannot fail.

robcass78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I don't know what to say to that but I have massive admiration for your thinking and actions, it has greatly upset and angered me on what has happened our region and indeed our country, particularly over the last couple of decades, we need new economic, political, environmental etc etc narratives, and we need them quickly. We need these to help ourselves and younger generations futures. I wish you and your families future the very best, and thank you again.

You can thank me when it's done and I'm only a small part of it. I'm the one to blame if it goes wrong IF government doesn't fund it.

robcass78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

even though i understand your opinions on such matters, i actually think you might be wrong in ways, you d be surprised of the amount of people that realise our current economic policies are deeply flawed, and are largely causing our wide scale environmental degradation. ive been lucky enough to have met many people, including younger people that realise this, and have interesting ideas on how we can change this, but change wont come easy, the forces keeping the status quo are great, but we cannot fail.

So what's your advice and ideas for North Quays?

Wanderer78

robcass78 wrote: »

So what's your advice and ideas for North Quays?

simply question but difficult answer. overall, this is a positive idea for the region, but we need to be extremely careful how it is implemented. we have a difficult relationship with fdi, of which we have benefited greatly from it, particularly over the last few decades, but it hasnt been all good. as we play this game, its becoming more evident that fdi investments have a major negative effect on our societies(we re not the only country having these issues), and this is clearly obvious when it comes to issues such as corporate taxes etc. i personally think we should be looking at utilizing ideas such as 'sovereign wealth funds' to try limit these negative effects. fdi has a tendency to become a large scale wealth extraction mechanism over the long term, we need to do as much as possible to not allow this to continue.

sme's have been decimated over the last few years, and major investments such as this can sometimes further jeopardize these industries, it also can of course have an equal opposite effect to. we need to incorporate these local businesses into this project as much as possible, creating opportunities for them wherever possible, to encourage them to get involved, to integrate their businesses into it etc

we need to make sure this investment isnt a long term wealth extractor, and wont leave us with big black hole upon its ending

i certainly wouldnt be blaming you for anything if it goes wrong, we need people such as yourself driving change, as our political institutions have effectively become defunct at such ideas.

kilkenny31

I'm going to guess that this is what Rob is talking about.



https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/backers-sought-for-radical-2000-home-ecotown-36962553.html

Waterboy2014

kilkenny31 wrote: »

I'm going to guess that this is what Rob is talking about.



https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/backers-sought-for-radical-2000-home-ecotown-36962553.html

Don't think so. He mentioned that it relates to the entire SE region and that it's related to technology sector.

kilkenny31

Waterboy2014 wrote: »

Don't think so. He mentioned that it relates to the entire SE region and that it's related to technology sector.

Haha. Sorry missed that post from him.

debok

Waterboy2014 wrote: »

Don't think so. He mentioned that it relates to the entire SE region and that it's related to technology sector.

He also mentioned something about kilbarry project awhile back. It's all good anyway