€300M Investment into Waterford City

alta stare

robcass78 wrote: »

It's not a substantial investment for government; it's giving a payback of 58 times the govt outlay.

Leo /Paschal / Damien / Ruth all saw the designs and think they look sustainable and amazing.

So let's say the government pull the small relative amount of funding by saying 'we don't want to create 3,700 jobs and get 3.7bn back for taxpayers and 58 times the return on investment' as we don't like criticism, but you do know I'm working with them in the background on solutions? When we're in leadership positions, it's great to get criticism as it means there's room for improvement & bluntly, folk care to get engaged. If it's quiet, something's up.

You'll also see I'm positive when it's merited.

The funding isn't certain.

Have you seen cathlab funding delivered? TUSE? Housing build rate misses? Tourism underperformance? IDA underperformance? You know Ireland 2040 is late and Southern Assembly won't have anything on it until end Q1 19, so it's already a 1 year delay in simply producing a plan from a Vision 2040 that was released in April, and the North Quays was in that vision, and that 1 delay costs the region €850m in 2019? How's that for 'delivery'?

Promises on paper aren't money or jobs delivered.

That's called execution risk; or 'missing plans & targets.' Which there is a lot of misses in Ireland and that's unlike other countries.

The majority of the risk is on us. As is the financial outlay.

If the regions underperformance continues we continue to lose 1 in 4 people in county and South East which is 5,000 a year, that's far higher than North Quays, so I've no illusion that this fixes the city & region. It doesn't. It simply stems a bit of talent.

And you're pretty naive to think we've not spent 18 months analysing this from every possible angle. Having built up 14 communities on much larger scales, we know what we're doing. As did Council do the evaluation as did Dept of public expenditure & reform; it's the highest returning project on state table at the moment.

To bring home how much the government cares so much about this investment / county/ region, for an investment of 3,700 jobs, or highest in state history, it doesn't even have a dedicated team on it from any or all department.

Not one dedicated public sector person. For €350m/3,700 jobs. Is that giving you comfort your tax is being well spent for a project delivering 377m a year back to the economy?

So ask yourself:

-if an investment of this scale doesn't get a dedicated project team to make it a reality, what does? What does that imply to the us investing all the money and the community who 96% say they want it about intent? Would you say 'the government are taking this seriously?'

If it was Apple, in Dublin, creating 3,700 jobs, would it be different?

You clearly haven't seen our designs & plans; we're going to have stunning, vibrant Quays and make us the best regional city in Ireland and people will move here to live here. The offices alone are 1,000 jobs so of course it won't be dead, so quit with the nonsense.

This is far from a certainty, and that's purely down to politics, not economics. It should have been started a year ago but a Local minister and state body negatively intervened.

-If I say 'let's back out' and see does the government step in instead of us with €350m, you seriously think local politics will work with government to step in & deliver it out? Can't even find 4m for cathlab that is owed and govt owe Council c12m for Greenway, never mind €350m development costs.

You're miles away from the reality of the project, the sheer work involved, the politics at play trying to stop it or hope it dies before it starts, and being a hurler on the ditch going 'hope it won't be an elephant'; instead, ask 'how do I go out and make 3,700 jobs and each with 4 dependents a reality; make it a success' as the city and region are going to prosper and hopefully never look back when it's done.

Rob im starting to doubt your ability to grasp what i am saying to you. You are going on social media and criticising the very people you want money off. How can you see this as professional???

alta stare

Deiseen wrote: »

Jesus Rob, go easy on him! That's the most epic burn I've ever seen on boards, I'm not sure if he'll survive!

The work your doing, and the issues you are highlighting are appreciated by 99% of people on here so don't let some spoofer deter you even 1% in what your doing.

What do you suggest we can do to help out, other than lobby TDs/Council/Senetators? Everyone wants to see this over the line, is worth having local meetings to get locals more involved in getting it over the line?

This post made me laugh so hard. You are like a right proper fan boy. Go easy on me??? Epic burn??? You dont think i will survive????? Fair play that is funny... In a sad kind of way. Thanks for the laugh tho.

hardybuck

robcass78 wrote: »

Right. Which is why 377m additional income a year to government should be welcomed, as it's counter cyclical investment creating jobs.

Money tight due to mismanagement in health budgets

Absolutely, money will be very tight due to consistent issues in health spending.

Could you provide a breakdown of the €377m potential additional income please?

Could you provide the calculation for your suggestion that you're providing 92% of the outlay?

Could provide a breakdown, free of material linked to your personal convictions and hearsay, as to how a €4bn under delivery 'by Civil and Public Servants' comes from - does that stand up to any form of rigour?

What does 1 in 4 leaving the South East mean? Does it mean 1 in for people between 18-25? Does it mean temporary or permanent? How would this compare with other regions?

How will your organisation deliver the additional jobs? Will the jobs be delivered by yourselves, or the companies who'll potentially locatate in the new development?

You mentioned creating 15,000 jobs elsewhere, and another poster asked where this took place - I'm also interested if you could enlighten us.

To reiterate - I hope this all goes really well, but do you think you're putting yourself under pressure, and do you think that you're potentially harming your employer's reputation, by making all these assertions and being openly critical of your key stakeholders and co-investors?

Dum_Dum

The other problem Rob is faced with is that most of the positive, bright, ambitious people have left Waterford. That leaves the negative, depressive naysayers whose only outlet is boards.ie

Deiseen

alta stare wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

Jesus Rob, go easy on him! That's the most epic burn I've ever seen on boards, I'm not sure if he'll survive!

The work your doing, and the issues you are highlighting are appreciated by 99% of people on here so don't let some spoofer deter you even 1% in what your doing.

What do you suggest we can do to help out, other than lobby TDs/Council/Senetators? Everyone wants to see this over the line, is worth having local meetings to get locals more involved in getting it over the line?

This post made me laugh so hard. You are like a right proper fan boy. Go easy on me??? Epic burn??? You dont think i will survive????? Fair play that is funny... In a sad kind of way. Thanks for the laugh tho.

Not a fan boy. Just understand the work he is putting in. He doesn't owe us anything and has only been helpful on here, then you come on and call him a spoofer, which is scandalous to be honest and if you don't see that then that's on you.

You got shown up by his response when you were questioning his credentials and if ya can't see that I was joking about the whole burn thing then that's on you. But he did make a complete holy show of you.

The number of likes on his posts, and the lack of likes on yours, shows that your in the wrong. You can question the government criticism but you stepped over the line calling him a spoofer.

Harry Palmr

robcass78 wrote: »

or Newstalk when I'll be on shortly talking up the North Quays, michael St, the wider South East, and how this is just the start of how we'll be asking the community to make it the best region to live, play and work in.

When is this on?

mart 23

Who are the legal owners of the 2 sites been developed Is it the Waterford CCC or the SA company?.

alta stare

Deiseen wrote: »

Not a fan boy. Just understand the work he is putting in. He doesn't owe us anything and has only been helpful on here, then you come on and call him a spoofer, which is scandalous to be honest and if you don't see that then that's on you.

You got shown up by his response when you were questioning his credentials and if ya can't see that I was joking about the whole burn thing then that's on you. But he did make a complete holy show of you.

The number of likes on his posts, and the lack of likes on yours, shows that your in the wrong. You can question the government criticism but you stepped over the line calling him a spoofer.

Im sure he is putting in work like many others, others who arent coming on boards looking for likes and doing so by criticising the government.

I dont see where i got shown up so if you could point that out id love to see it.

I did not question his credentials, yes i called him a spoofer because that is what i think he is. He is spoofing about our government. A spoofer.

Yeah i see how many likes he gets and im sure he laps it all up. I on the other hand could not too a hoots about likes so it makes no ends to this discussion to be fair.

alta stare

Dum_Dum wrote: »

The other problem Rob is faced with is that most of the positive, bright, ambitious people have left Waterford. That leaves the negative, depressive naysayers whose only outlet is boards.ie

I mean if you are referring that toward anyone who asks questions and just doesnt agree with everything rob says then that is a negative trait in you i would moreso believe. I hope you dont apply that logic in other aspects of your life. Its good to question things, people, situations and in doing so doesnt make you or i or whoever anyway negative. Its such a lazy silly ignorant label made by people who wear blinkers and just follow the leader.

robcass78

alta stare wrote: »

I mean if you are referring that toward anyone who asks questions and just doesnt agree with everything rob says then that is a negative trait in you i would moreso believe. I hope you dont apply that logic in other aspects of your life. Its good to question things, people, situations and in doing so doesnt make you or i or whoever anyway negative. Its such a lazy silly ignorant label made by people who wear blinkers and just follow the leader.

Give it a rest, Patrick, or come join me at the North Quays community sessions I'll set up after funding and you can stand at the top of the room to say to the people turning up 'it's an April Fool' like you do here.

Or join me at the review sessions I have with Ministers on North Quays and wider improvement sessions for the region where we put suggestions on the table on fixing the underdelivery (which you call 'criticism'.) Which you can put your suggestions, alongside my existing ones we already have in motion, to improve the region, then let's see what you got.

This is a forum to discuss opportunities on North Quays and I'll answer North Quays questions, not questions on me as a 'spoofer.'

robcass78

Deiseen wrote: »

Jesus Rob, go easy on him! That's the most epic burn I've ever seen on boards, I'm not sure if he'll survive!

The work your doing, and the issues you are highlighting are appreciated by 99% of people on here so don't let some spoofer deter you even 1% in what your doing.

What do you suggest we can do to help out, other than lobby TDs/Council/Senetators? Everyone wants to see this over the line, is worth having local meetings to get locals more involved in getting it over the line?

I gave it some thought today (about getting more of the community involved) and said to Mick Walsh today it would be good to start a community and marketing plan in October; after funding goes in.

I was thinking Boxworks as a venue as my office isn't big enough as only fits the 25 working on the designs when we have group session, and Flash does amazing stuff there for business / start ups.

I'll open the invite out to everyone as this is about community, not politics. Those who would have wanted to make it work would have got their finger out by now and I work with those who want to make it happen, rather than take cred & cut red tape.

Ideas (positive ones) welcome, listened to and then will decide what we do.

Thanks

alta stare

robcass78 wrote: »

Give it a rest, Patrick, or come join me at the North Quays community sessions I'll set up after funding and you can stand at the top of the room to say to the people turning up 'it's an April Fool' like you do here.

Or join me at the review sessions I have with Ministers on North Quays and wider improvement sessions for the region where we put suggestions on the table on fixing the underdelivery (which you call 'criticism'.) Which you can put your suggestions, alongside my existing ones we already have in motion, to improve the region, then let's see what you got.

This is a forum to discuss opportunities on North Quays and I'll answer North Quays questions, not questions on me as a 'spoofer.'

Do you not like getting questioned?

You still havent answered my original question either. Do you think it is professional of you to be criticising the government on social media given what you are looking for off them?


You can have all the sessions with politician's all you want i just hope you are as critical with them in person as you are on here.

Regarding the actual North Keys. As i have said and you or no one can say otherwise i actually support the North Keys development my issue is with you giving out about the people you want money off. Doing so in private is fair game doing so online is unprofessional.

Now you can keep coming back with this and that about employment, economics, numbers, pie charts or whatever else you want to throw at us but the fact is you wont admit you are not being professional when talking about the government online.

We all know the good the bad and the ugly with the government and some go online and give out which is fair enough but not everyone is looking for the government to pony up taxpayers money for a project which could be pulled at any moment.

I called you a spoofer, iv been labled with other names because i excercise my right to question you yet im not crying about it so im not sure why you and your fan boys are taking offence with it. If you actual read why i said you were spoofing then maybe it wouldn't hit a nerve as much as it has.

tbayers

If Rob puts as much effort into the NQ Quays development as he does with his posts on here we have nothing to worry about.
I have a simple question, when is this impasse with the government funding expected to come to a head? Will the upcoming budget play a major role?

ImAHappyCamper

Has there been any "artists impression" pictures of the development. I've seen a pic of the pedestrian bridge but nothing about the other side.

alta stare

ImAHappyCamper wrote: »

Has there been any "artists impression" pictures of the development. I've seen a pic of the pedestrian bridge but nothing about the other side.

The local papers had some a while back. It looks good.

Harry Palmr

There's a substantial vessel parked alongside with a big arm - the Tango Rio, is it something to do with clearing the NQ of the mills debris?

hardybuck

robcass78 wrote: »

Give it a rest, Patrick, or come join me at the North Quays community sessions I'll set up after funding and you can stand at the top of the room to say to the people turning up 'it's an April Fool' like you do here.

Or join me at the review sessions I have with Ministers on North Quays and wider improvement sessions for the region where we put suggestions on the table on fixing the underdelivery (which you call 'criticism'.) Which you can put your suggestions, alongside my existing ones we already have in motion, to improve the region, then let's see what you got.

This is a forum to discuss opportunities on North Quays and I'll answer North Quays questions, not questions on me as a 'spoofer.'

Rob, should I take it that you can't/won't answer the questions I had about one of your long and varied posts?

In my opinion that's probably for the best anyway as might help keep the discussion on track, and put an end to grandstanding and inaccurate statements.

Max Powers

Harry Palmr wrote: »

There's a substantial vessel parked alongside with a big arm - the Tango Rio, is it something to do with clearing the NQ of the mills debris?

I doubt it, a guess but probably parked up out of the way with high winds on the way or just lack of space at port.

Waterboy2014

Interesting piece in the News and Star this week about NQs. All appears to be moving along nicely. Contracts likely to be signed next week with Fawaz Alhokair. CPO piece with ABP likely to be resolved by end of October. Worth a read!

Muttley79

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1i9rqW6zbuOnanmzlCRp4G38GVqpde_M-/view?usp=drivesdk
Looks like good news but why has Michael Walsh left it till the last second to apply for the funding.this should have been done months ago and now cork seems to want to take more stuff off Waterford and they just might as they got political clout over our clown politician's

Harry Palmr

Cork? **** off Cork.

Jamie2k9

Gov already committed to 60m.

TheQuietFella

Muttley79 wrote: »

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1i9rqW6zbuOnanmzlCRp4G38GVqpde_M-/view?usp=drivesdk
Looks like good news but why has Michael Walsh left it till the last second to apply for the funding.this should have been done months ago and now cork seems to want to take more stuff off Waterford and they just might as they got political clout over our clown politician's

If your just going to sit there and do absolutely nothing well good luck to Cork!

JohnC.

What's the fuss about Cork? From reading that, it's a €2bn fund for the whole country, so they're not taking it off Waterford. Everyone gets to apply for a slice of that pie. Unless you really think Waterford were going to get €2bn to themselves.

Road-Hog

Muttley79 wrote: »

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1i9rqW6zbuOnanmzlCRp4G38GVqpde_M-/view?usp=drivesdk
Looks like good news but why has Michael Walsh left it till the last second to apply for the funding.this should have been done months ago and now cork seems to want to take more stuff off Waterford and they just might as they got political clout over our clown politician's

I would think end of September or whatever the date is is the last date for submissions prior to their assessment. So probably doesn’t make a blind bit of difference how far in advance of the deadline date the application goes in, assessment won’t start until the day after.....!

914

Muttley79 wrote: »

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1i9rqW6zbuOnanmzlCRp4G38GVqpde_M-/view?usp=drivesdk
Looks like good news but why has Michael Walsh left it till the last second to apply for the funding.this should have been done months ago and now cork seems to want to take more stuff off Waterford and they just might as they got political clout over our clown politician's

Would rather we waited to send it in ensuring we have gathered enough analysis and facts to strengthen our case as opposed to just lashing it in only to realise we could have sent in a better proposal.

Doesn't make a blind bit of difference how early it goes in once its not passed the deal line

914

TheQuietFella wrote: »

If your just going to sit there and do absolutely nothing well good luck to Cork!

I would love to know how they have done "nothing"?

I'd say you will be raging if this gets over the line.

Muttley79

TheQuietFella wrote: »

If your just going to sit there and do absolutely nothing well good luck to Cork!

Begrudgery at its finest

TheQuietFella

914 wrote: »

I would love to know how they have done "nothing"?

I'd say you will be raging if this gets over the line.

To be fair 914 I won't, but this still seems to be dragging on and on!
They demolished the buildings on the NQ and left the Henn' standing.
More bloody delays! Why wasn't all that sorted prior to the start of demolition?

We're going to have another issue like they did in Loughrea with Apple
changing their plans and re-locating elsewhere! We have the jar with the Genie
in it but we're afraid to rub the jar but we are waiting for someone else to give it
a brush! Why????

robcass78

JohnC. wrote: »

What's the fuss about Cork? From reading that, it's a €2bn fund for the whole country, so they're not taking it off Waterford. Everyone gets to apply for a slice of that pie. Unless you really think Waterford were going to get €2bn to themselves.

Firstly, there isn't 2bn available next year; it's only 100m next year, to be allocated across all applications for the urban fund (i.e. all cities ex Dublin plus the towns).

Secondly, the Council's evaluation has been chosen as Indecon (who aren't doing Cork's application) and is ONLY for the public expenditure aspect of North quays (which is the fraction of spend: 63m of 498m (or we're doing 87% and government 13%).

The council application completely excludes the "business/private investment" shown on page 26 of 498m development cost (including the contribution we make to bridges/roads/The greenway/the new rail station of 15.5m).

That then also excludes the direct impact of the trade/economic value generated on site (which is c407m a year) once built, and then the indirect impact from that trade (the jobs created on site and in the region from that trade, which is at a minimum 3,434 jobs have salaries to spend) and then the tertiary impact.

Third, the application for funding itself doesn't say "exclude private investment" as it's about the benefits to the community/city/county/region.

So whilst in reality, if North Quays & Michael was built tomorrow, it would see 3,434 jobs and the economy 407m, Indecon/government put no value against these jobs and the economic impact to county (407m or +9% growth in GDP p.a.) or region.

Make sense? So, grossly underestimate the benefits, overstate the costs and there you have it.

Precedent for this? Cathlab; flawed report with little understanding of basis. What's that resulted in?

Who understands the report and the understanding of the economics and jobs impact behind North Quays & Michael St do you think, or who has asked to go through it to drive it?

And where in the Indecon report does it mention job creation from the development, if we're supposed to be all about "jobs, jobs, jobs"?

BTW; Waterford didn't do a presentation on the urban regeneration fund; Kilkenny, Laois & Limerick have done so as I expect them to apply.

Kilkenny's masterplan looks good. Limerick a solid business team working together with council collectively, as one independent Board seeing it's vision delivered.