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€300M Investment into Waterford City
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Can you give some details.....link to ad maybe...?
Was it the existing car park off new st I wonder...?
I take it this is what you are referring to......
https://www.cisireland.com/project/870239/€58m-shopping-centre-demolition-works
Looks like it could be relating to Michael street alright0 -
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alta stare wrote: »Is there any plans for traffic management during and after the North Keys development? The traffic that side of the bridge is crazy in the mornings and this development will add to it. Surely its time we have a new vehicle bridge, which isnt outside the city.
Plan is for a new bridge to eventually be built by the tower. Traffic is really bad that side of town due to the bottle neck on the Quay. If traffic has somewhere else to terminate then it might not actually be too bad because there's less traffic going to the one place. We just have to see I guess.0 -
Plan is for a new bridge to eventually be built by the tower. Traffic is really bad that side of town due to the bottle neck on the Quay. If traffic has somewhere else to terminate then it might not actually be too bad because there's less traffic going to the one place. We just have to see I guess.
I hope they actually build it. I have noticed tho to be fair alot of traffic on the Ferrybank side is down to the roundabout at the train station. People cant seem to use it. The traffic lights at the bridge add to the backup. A new bridge is badly needed.0 -
engiweirdo wrote: »How long is Michael St "in the pipeline" at this stage? For all the grandiose plans there still hasn't been a block laid in earnest. Promises promises, are nice for dreamers but results are not exactly forthcoming and the hesitance of the company proposing the development to move forward with Michael St is worrisome.
I get that it's an all or nothing development but that they are'nt moving forward with the initial stage with no roadblocks attached, indicates this investment is far from a done deal and we could be left with nothing but what ifs again shortly. This was all green lights apparently and now the big pause. Are they re-thinking and considering cutting losses? Their actions, at least in terms of real physical results and not propaganda, are'nt displaying much confidence in the city at present.
This development won't happen without the government committing 60million or so, which I think will be announced/decided in November.
Work on the NQ was never scheduled to start this year. Michael St was originally scheduled for this Autumn but has now been tied in with the NQs.
You're clearly young and exuberant which is v positive and the best of luck to you with your career.
Sadly you smack a little bit of what your generation is largely being accused of which is that you expect to stroll into a ready made world designed specifically for yourself without doing much other than gaining a 3rd level qualification.
You're in the midst of discovering that this is not the case and it's frustrating you.
I'm not trying to condescend btw.
Go and apply your qualification to a job wherever you might get it. Get a few years experience under your belt.
And please, please save a link to your posts on here in the last 24 hours and re-read them in 4-5 years. Hubris and humility...0 -
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This development won't happen without the government committing 60million or so, which I think will be announced/decided in November.
Work on the NQ was never scheduled to start this year. Michael St was originally scheduled for this Autumn but has now been tied in with the NQs.
You're clearly young and exuberant which is v positive and the best of luck to you with your career.
Sadly you smack a little bit of what your generation is largely being accused of which is that you expect to stroll into a ready made world designed specifically for yourself without doing much other than gaining a 3rd level qualification.
You're in the midst of discovering that this is not the case and it's frustrating you.
I'm not trying to condescend btw.
Go and apply your qualification to a job wherever you might get it. Get a few years experience under your belt.
And please, please save a link to your posts on here in the last 24 hours and re-read them in 4-5 years. Hubris and humility...
I'm not trying to be condescending.... BUT0 -
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This development won't happen without the government committing 60million or so, which I think will be announced/decided in November.
Work on the NQ was never scheduled to start this year. Michael St was originally scheduled for this Autumn but has now been tied in with the NQs.
You're clearly young and exuberant which is v positive and the best of luck to you with your career.
Sadly you smack a little bit of what your generation is largely being accused of which is that you expect to stroll into a ready made world designed specifically for yourself without doing much other than gaining a 3rd level qualification.
You're in the midst of discovering that this is not the case and it's frustrating you.
I'm not trying to condescend btw.
Go and apply your qualification to a job wherever you might get it. Get a few years experience under your belt.
And please, please save a link to your posts on here in the last 24 hours and re-read them in 4-5 years. Hubris and humility...
Hi there,
A couple of points.
While it would be nice to have the 10+ years back, I'm a mid 30 year old rather than early 20 year old graduate. I have been applying exclusively for entry/graduate/junior roles not shooting above my grade.
I have (lots of) previous experience in manufacturing prior to my course , any job that I might get that is not an engineering role would be attainable without spending 4 years studying so why bother with qualifications? Should I clean toilets to get my foot in the door?
My generation is the one struggling to recover after the previous one destroyed the place with greed and shorsightedness, and we're still having to ask that generation for the chance to make things better. Makes it even more galling.
The few years experience now barrring a minor miracle will be spent elsewhere. That means uprooting family, moving school for child, home etc, building a life someplace else. I am extremely unlikely to ever come back in that scenario.
You will notice an absolute glut of positions advertised for experienced engineers, most of them open for months. That is the long term result of this scenario. Had local companies given lads a shot at a career 3-5 years ago those would now be at that stage and possibly available.
Back on topic(apologies). Rob Cass seems like a thoroughly decent fella and I hope he gets this project over the line. There aren't very many Rob Cass's who will return to the region with this kind of investmentafter having to leave. Even at that he seems to have faced obstacles that would drive most away in disbelief. If theres another delay to this government funding or reduction in amount approved Robs bosses might rightly say "Look, f this place, we'll move on to the next one".0 -
engiweirdo wrote: »Hi there,
A couple of points.
While it would be nice to have the 10+ years back, I'm a mid 30 year old rather than early 20 year old graduate. I have been applying exclusively for entry/graduate/junior roles not shooting above my grade.
I have (lots of) previous experience in manufacturing prior to my course , any job that I might get that is not an engineering role would be attainable without spending 4 years studying so why bother with qualifications? Should I clean toilets to get my foot in the door?
My generation is the one struggling to recover after the previous one destroyed the place with greed and shorsightedness, and we're still having to ask that generation for the chance to make things better. Makes it even more galling.
The few years experience now barrring a minor miracle will be spent elsewhere. That means uprooting family, moving school for child, home etc, building a life someplace else. I am extremely unlikely to ever come back in that scenario.
You will notice an absolute glut of positions advertised for experienced engineers, most of them open for months. That is the long term result of this scenario. Had local companies given lads a shot at a career 3-5 years ago those would now be at that stage and possibly available.
Back on topic(apologies). Rob Cass seems like a thoroughly decent fella and I hope he gets this project over the line. There aren't very many Rob Cass's who will return to the region with this kind of investmentafter having to leave. Even at that he seems to have faced obstacles that would drive most away in disbelief. If theres another delay to this government funding or reduction in amount approved Robs bosses might rightly say "Look, f this place, we'll move on to the next one".
I don't think any of this is really relevant to NQ, most of it is, I can't find job I want and there are more jobs elsewhere and speculation based on little about the NQ. There's work in the SE, getting first one after graduating is most difficult.0 -
Max Powers wrote: »I don't think any of this is really relevant to NQ, most of it is, I can't find job I want and there are more jobs elsewhere and speculation based on little about the NQ. There's work in the SE, getting first one after graduating is most difficult.
I know and apologise, but to be fair I was responding to a post that was I guess related to an amalgamation of what I posted here and in the non-NQ thread.
Is it not a tad embarassing though as a regional capital to admit there more jobs in Clonmel, Kilkenny etc than Waterford. I doubt you'd have Cork people directing grads toward Kerry/Waterford direction. Thats all I'll post now about it.0 -
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engiweirdo wrote: »I know and apologise, but to be fair I was responding to a post that was I guess related to an amalgamation of what I posted here and in the non-NQ thread.
Is it not a tad embarassing though as a regional capital to admit there more jobs in Clonmel, Kilkenny etc than Waterford. I doubt you'd have Cork people directing grads toward Kerry/Waterford direction. Thats all I'll post now about it.
Sorry for misjudging your circumstances. Hopefully you can avoid uprooting our family.0 -
engiweirdo wrote: »I know and apologise, but to be fair I was responding to a post that was I guess related to an amalgamation of what I posted here and in the non-NQ thread.
Is it not a tad embarassing though as a regional capital to admit there more jobs in Clonmel, Kilkenny etc than Waterford. I doubt you'd have Cork people directing grads toward Kerry/Waterford direction. Thats all I'll post now about it.
No one said more jobs in clonmel, I'm saying there is plenty of opportunities in the SE for most, mechanical engineers included. It just looks like a personal whine at this stage mostly to do with your current situation, it's tough, I was there exactly myself. we all know the jobs market in Waterford is nowhere as good as cork, galway, LK...we all want that to change , I'm angry about that, not embarrassed and hey I would like a job exclusively in Waterford where I didn't have to get in the car but it's small problem, get to stay where I want to stay, better lifestyle for me, family, etc etc0 -
Does anyone think that the ‘tardiness’ of council/government in approving the funding for this mega project could be its downfall.....should/would a private sector/local business man temporarily hired into the local council help speed up the process......or is it best to leave it with those who know the government bureaucracy best.....any local business persons with no local government experience might spent the first six months just learning the processes/nuances of government funding or maybe they could streamline things to some degree...?0
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Does anyone think that the ‘tardiness’ of council/government in approving the funding for this mega project could be its downfall.....should/would a private sector/local business man temporarily hired into the local council help speed up the process......or is it best to leave it with those who know the government bureaucracy best.....any local business persons with no local government experience might spent the first six months just learning the processes/nuances of government funding or maybe they could streamline things to some degree...?
Credit where credit is due, I think the council are doing as much as they can. They needed to submit an application to central government for funding. Deadline was yesterday. They've demolished old buildings in NQ. Appled for CPOs for relevant land. Progressed the bridge. Designed infrastructure around site. Central government on the other hand are unbelievable slow and have, IMO, delayed the progress.0 -
engiweirdo wrote:My generation is the one struggling to recover after the previous one destroyed the place with greed and shorsightedness, and we're still having to ask that generation for the chance to make things better. Makes it even more galling.
To be fair, are previous boom and subsequent bust was due to a lot more complicated issues than just pure greed and shortsight, some of the most respected economic advisers didn't even see the bust coming, and disturbingly, still dont understand why it occurred, hence why not much has actually changed. But I do have hope, your generation are on the way, and you guys are pissed, and rightfully so, but more importantly, you guys are well informed and motivated to change things considerably.0 -
Rob, may i ask who you have engaged with in terms of designers (Mech, Elec, Civil, Arch)? Arup, Jacobs or have you gone with an Irish based/owned designer with relevant previous experience?
With the owners being an international organisation will you run with an EPC or EPCM type of Contract?
Upon all this who are you looking for in terms of Main Contractor? Irish based (Sisk, BAM, Hegarty's etc) or will you go with International companies like (Samsung C&T, KBR, Laings)?
Do you really think in a multi million project that someone would answer a question like that in advance of negotiations?0 -
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alta stare wrote: »Given Robs form for giving out about the government on here i would not be surprised if details like that were revealed.
His twitter is pretty salty too tbh. Noticeably more so lately. Frustration probably wearing on him.0 -
engiweirdo wrote: »His twitter is pretty salty too tbh. Noticeably more so lately. Frustration probably wearing on him.
The reality of the situation is probably hitting on him now!0 -
Rob, may i ask who you have engaged with in terms of designers (Mech, Elec, Civil, Arch)? Arup, Jacobs or have you gone with an Irish based/owned designer with relevant previous experience?
With the owners being an international organisation will you run with an EPC or EPCM type of Contract?
Upon all this who are you looking for in terms of Main Contractor? Irish based (Sisk, BAM, Hegarty's etc) or will you go with International companies like (Samsung C&T, KBR, Laings)?
Are you looking for potential employers...? by the way what does EPC/EPCM translate to.......Early .......?
Given the scale of the proposal I doubt if all relevant expertise will be home/Irish based...!0 -
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Are you looking for potential employers...? by the way what does EPC/EPCM translate to.......Early .......?
Given the scale of the proposal I doubt if all relevant expertise will be home/Irish based...!
Think it's engineer, procure construction, maintain.....needless to say gardner will have bad things to say about each of above, even if contractors named at an early stage0 -
Max Powers wrote: »Think it's engineer, procure construction, maintain.....needless to say gardner will have bad things to say about each of above, even if contractors named at an early stage
Nope, the intention of the post was/is to find out some basic simple answers. at the end of the day it will give an accurate picture of where we are with the project.
EPC = Engineer Procure and Construct EPCM = Engineer Procure Construct and Maintain. 2 very common types of Contract used in Middle East, Asia, US and Australia in various industries. We quite haven’t copped onto it here in Ireland like most things in Construction. with a ME company involved in the Project it will be interesting to see what type of Contract is implemented.
We still await the answers to my initial question.0 -
Nope, the intention of the post was/is to find out some basic simple answers. at the end of the day it will give an accurate picture of where we are with the project.
EPC = Engineer Procure and Construct EPCM = Engineer Procure Construct and Maintain. 2 very common types of Contract used in Middle East, Asia, US and Australia in various industries. We quite haven’t copped onto it here in Ireland like most things in Construction. with a ME company involved in the Project it will be interesting to see what type of Contract is implemented.
We still await the answers to my initial question.
Sounds very similar to DB/DBO/DBOFM/PPP type contracts which have been around for almost 20 years. Different acronym for similar type of contract0 -
NORTH QUAYS UPDATE
FUNDING APPLICATION
Delighted to be informed by Michael Walsh Chief Executive Officer Waterford Council that the 1st application for funds under the Urban Regeneration & Development Fund 2018 has been submitted under the Project Ireland 2040 Programme
INFRASTRUCTURAL DELIVERY
The proposal in a partnership with Kilkenny County Council, Iarnrod Eireann & Fawaz Alhokair will enable;
- €350M private investment.
- 2,300 permanent jobs.
- 2-300 Apartments
- a half million visitor experience
& 1,250 Construction jobs for 3 years!
The Proposal will incorporate;
1. Integrated Transport Hub for train, Car, bus, cycling & pedestrian mobility.
2. Sustainable Transport Corridor in form of pedestrian/cyclist/public transport bridge.
3. City Centre Access by enhancing road network for future bridge crossing.
4. Ferrybank/Bellview link road initiative from Belmont to Abbey Road.
FUNDING AMOUNT
The total funding requested is €105M over 4 years with a match funding of €35M with total infrastructural envisaged cost of €140M. If granted €20m would be delivered by Government in 2019!
COMPLETED PROJECT
There is a committed private sector development of €350m which will see;
- 40k sq m Retail
- 7.5k sq m Leisure
- 15k sq m Offices
- 400 Room Hotel
- 10k sq m Visitor Centre
- 1,500 space Car Park
- Renewable Energy Project
Based upon committed developments;
- N Quays SDZ
- Former Ard Ri site of 4 star hotel, spa & holiday village
- Michael Street Shopping District/Centre
START DATE
Subject to Government approval of Grant application, finer planning details would be approved early 2019 with work commencing 2019 also
💙⚪️🔵🇮🇪0 -
Wanderer78 wrote: »To be fair, are previous boom and subsequent bust was due to a lot more complicated issues than just pure greed and shortsight, some of the most respected economic advisers didn't even see the bust coming, and disturbingly, still dont understand why it occurred, hence why not much has actually changed. But I do have hope, your generation are on the way, and you guys are pissed, and rightfully so, but more importantly, you guys are well informed and motivated to change things considerably.
The 18-35 generation was and continues to be royally screwed; from incompetence from 2000-2012 then ineptness in (and Troika / bank guarantee was a choice, not a necessity; Irish banks weren't "too big to fail" but did fail society, big time and still do).
Some voices did, and weren't listened to. David McWilliams. Even my brother was in RBS property at European level screaming "bubble" but obviously not listened to; the ability to listen to dissenting voices is a rare gift.
We're at design stage and whilst the design team is 80% Irish, I selected them on competence of delivering large scale, quayside, mixed use projects. Those selected are best in Ireland/UK.
On tendering strategy; that's 2 months off yet in terms of decision but am evaluating options & approaches now.
Given the scale, it's likely to be a hybrid of local and international. I'm not yet convinced on national innovation capability (modular/3d/precast) in the build area, the scale to deliver such innovations nationally, plus the lack of skills due to a lack of planning / policy interconnectivity means the requirement to look external for solutions is taking up a bit of my time.
It will be tendered, like the design team, PM & QS was. We don't do "ah sure you know me" or "favours" nor do I believe in the private spend having to be spent with local if it compromises integrity or execution. Trying to get to me to ask via my family, like some have done already, is immediate exclusion from sourcing as there is no ethics in that. Process has to be fair and transparent.0 -
engiweirdo wrote: »His twitter is pretty salty too tbh. Noticeably more so lately. Frustration probably wearing on him.
Yep; two years on but not bitter/salty. Need a holiday, as the impact of underdelivery of policy is bigger than NQ impact and sad to see no one do anything as it's ultimately this which impacts jobs and young people/communities.
What would help is a regional development team of competent, can-do folk who can make things happen. That will step up delivery if given 3 year targets.
Good to see Council submit the application.
-The 350m is simply infrastructure spend which is once-off; it's the 2,300 jobs on site of NQ & 127 on Michael St, plus 477m in economic impact a year to Wat /KK / Wex plus 151m income to taxpayer (exchequer) to fund other things (like Cathlab / TUSE/airport). Per year, over lifetime of a development, you can do the maths that this stacks up.
-Great to have Deloitte working on a solid growth story for county & region; the like many before, back up the numbers & story of growth ahead.0 -
3. City Centre Access by enhancing road network for future bridge crossing
Is that a reference to that harebrained scheme to cross the Suir at Maypark Lane?0 -
engiweirdo wrote: »Hi there,
A couple of points.
While it would be nice to have the 10+ years back, I'm a mid 30 year old rather than early 20 year old graduate. I have been applying exclusively for entry/graduate/junior roles not shooting above my grade.
I have (lots of) previous experience in manufacturing prior to my course , any job that I might get that is not an engineering role would be attainable without spending 4 years studying so why bother with qualifications? Should I clean toilets to get my foot in the door?
My generation is the one struggling to recover after the previous one destroyed the place with greed and shorsightedness, and we're still having to ask that generation for the chance to make things better. Makes it even more galling.
The few years experience now barrring a minor miracle will be spent elsewhere. That means uprooting family, moving school for child, home etc, building a life someplace else. I am extremely unlikely to ever come back in that scenario.
You will notice an absolute glut of positions advertised for experienced engineers, most of them open for months. That is the long term result of this scenario. Had local companies given lads a shot at a career 3-5 years ago those would now be at that stage and possibly available.
Back on topic(apologies). Rob Cass seems like a thoroughly decent fella and I hope he gets this project over the line. There aren't very many Rob Cass's who will return to the region with this kind of investment after having to leave. Even at that he seems to have faced obstacles that would drive most away in disbelief. If theres another delay to this government funding or reduction in amount approved Robs bosses might rightly say "Look, f this place, we'll move on to the next one".
Thanks. But I chose to leave as I knew I wouldn't get the opportunity to grow/learn/screw things up by staying in Ireland where age & grey hairs & "which parish are you from or who's your family" matter more than ability/results delivered. Ireland isn't a meritocracy. Look at how well Stripe have done in San Francisco. Wouldn't have happened here.
You seem genuine and to have been shafted. There's tonnes of opportunities coming. Have you tried Suir? Radley's? Both are two brilliant success stories. There's about 4,400 new build homes coming in next 3 years, NQ & Michael St, solar farms so there's a lot around the corner.
I don't want anyone's family uprooting as it's terrible; take it from someone who's moved 9 times since I was 22. Was great when young for the experiences gained around the world, but it's not great for kids to be away from Mam & Dad & family.
However, tax free packages if you move abroad are amazing for the cash that they create.
I'm also an Engineer but was never going to be an engineer; am the world's worst.
Then Crystal valley tech has amazing potential. If I had the opportunity to learn now, I'd be learning about Blockchain & fintech. Engineering concepts during free time if you have any.
I'm more into recruiting for mindset than skills. Skills can be learnt but
DM me and I'll see what I can do, but no promises.0 -
Thanks. But I chose to leave as I knew I wouldn't get the opportunity to grow/learn/screw things up by staying in Ireland where age & grey hairs & "which parish are you from or who's your family" matter more than ability/results delivered. Ireland isn't a meritocracy. Look at how well Stripe have done in San Francisco. Wouldn't have happened here.
You seem genuine and to have been shafted. There's tonnes of opportunities coming. Have you tried Suir? Radley's? Both are two brilliant success stories. There's about 4,400 new build homes coming in next 3 years, NQ & Michael St, solar farms so there's a lot around the corner.
I don't want anyone's family uprooting as it's terrible; take it from someone who's moved 9 times since I was 22. Was great when young for the experiences gained around the world, but it's not great for kids to be away from Mam & Dad & family.
However, tax free packages if you move abroad are amazing for the cash that they create.
I'm also an Engineer but was never going to be an engineer; am the world's worst.
Then Crystal valley tech has amazing potential. If I had the opportunity to learn now, I'd be learning about Blockchain & fintech. Engineering concepts during free time if you have any.
I'm more into recruiting for mindset than skills. Skills can be learnt but
DM me and I'll see what I can do, but no promises.
Thanks Rob. Have done so, and hope you get that holiday soon.0 -
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so from reading all of the above the following is noted:
• The first tranche of funding has been applied for.
• Outline of the potential development that is proposed.
• An envisaged cost of €140m that comes with the Civil/Infrastructural
Works is a very dangerous observation to state. What contingency
have you got on this figure?( approx. %) If the budget does blow out, will
the funding come from an additional tranche from the State or
from Fawaz Alhokair? Will other separable portions of the Project(s) be
excluded to make up budget defecates?
• You stated “We're at design stage and whilst the design team is 80%
Irish, I selected them on competence of delivering large scale,
quayside, mixed use projects. Those selected are best in Ireland/UK”.
I take it then its either Jacobs, PM Group, Arup?? If so that’s
another positive step.
• In terms of tendering strategy you state your 2 months off. That's all well
and good but with a complex development such as this I think
you’re better off to throw that period out another few months until the
design stage is somewhere around the 60% to 80% mark. (just a
personal opinion based upon similar projects I worked on internationally)
• This is very positive to read “Given the scale, it's likely to be a hybrid
of local and international. I'm not yet convinced on national
innovation capability (modular/3d/precast) in the build area, the scale to
deliver such innovations nationally, plus the lack of skills due to
a lack of planning / policy interconnectivity means the requirement to
look external for solutions is taking up a bit of my time.” And agree
100% with you when it comes to local and national Contractor’s. With
Brexit around the corner this is a great opportunity for the likes of
a UK based Contractor’s to now setup in Ireland e.g. Samsung,
KBR, Laings, Cimic etc.
Positive to read, but a hell of a lot of work done and now to be completed. Would I be correct in saying a realistic date of late 2022 early 2023 would be a substantial completion date?0
This discussion has been closed.
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