€300M Investment into Waterford City

robcass78

fricatus wrote: »

Yes, Waterford is not really a shopping destination, which impacts on our economy. I work in Kilkenny, and my impression is that people would go to Newbridge more often than to Waterford for shopping trips. No offence to the fine town of Newbridge, but we should be in a higher league. This retail leakage translates into lost jobs. I'm sure Rob has the figures!

660m spent outside the region. About 10,000 jobs in the city centre if the sales are 100k per person.

10,000 jobs. Who then would have 200m to spend in businesses.

How many is that a factor of what the Crystal employed?

Or that leakage is 3 times the amount currently spent in the city trade. And 3 times the current amount working in retail.

So those talking North Quays 'will kill the city' talking nonsense, as underspaced by 40%, with 50% population growth & 25% wage growth ahead. Those numbers are very attractive to retail brands as most of Europe & US are overspaced, declining / flat population with minimal wage growth.

The leakage in spend is outside the region as there isn't a regional destination to shop in which is an experience.

Then add 400m of tourism spend that's currently missing. Which is 4,000 jobs.

Crystal didn't kill the city; the lack of service jobs in retail & tourism is why there's 10,000 jobs missing today.

North Quays & Michael St 50,000 m2 of retail will only close 150-180m of that 660m current leakage but it will mean reversal of trade into the city IF people choose to spend money in the city.

It's the only region in Ireland missing a destination, and the region with the lowest cost of living (i.e. High disposable income ahead with the growth and jobs.)

And retail is only 25% of the area. That's why you have to have the mix right. With retail it's 25-30% clothing now as more about tech & food & softplay experiences.

Oh and the banks sell the spend data internationally on spend. To retailers. That's how we get our data & analysis to make fact-based, not car crash / white elephant decisions.

But keep thinking it won't happen; it will only not happen if the community doesn't shout loud enough at politicians to say 'make it so; we deserve the best city for the future. We want those jobs for our families and kids, not other cities.'

hardybuck

robcass78 wrote: »

660m spent outside the region. About 10,000 jobs in the city centre if the sales are 100k per person.

10,000 jobs. Who then would have 200m to spend in businesses.

How many is that a factor of what the Crystal employed?

Or that leakage is 3 times the amount currently spent in the city trade. And 3 times the current amount working in retail.

So those talking North Quays 'will kill the city' talking nonsense, as underspaced by 40%, with 50% population growth & 25% wage growth ahead. Those numbers are very attractive to retail brands as most of Europe & US are overspaced, declining / flat population with minimal wage growth.

The leakage in spend is outside the region as there isn't a regional destination to shop in which is an experience.

Then add 400m of tourism spend that's currently missing. Which is 4,000 jobs.

Crystal didn't kill the city; the lack of service jobs in retail & tourism is why there's 10,000 jobs missing today.

North Quays & Michael St 50,000 m2 of retail will only close 150-180m of that 660m current leakage but it will mean reversal of trade into the city IF people choose to spend money in the city.

It's the only region in Ireland missing a destination, and the region with the lowest cost of living (i.e. High disposable income ahead with the growth and jobs.)

And retail is only 25% of the area. That's why you have to have the mix right. With retail it's 25-30% clothing now as more about tech & food & softplay experiences.

Oh and the banks sell the spend data internationally on spend. To retailers. That's how we get our data & analysis to make fact-based, not car crash / white elephant decisions.

But keep thinking it won't happen; it will only not happen if the community doesn't shout loud enough at politicians to say 'make it so; we deserve the best city for the future. We want those jobs for our families and kids, not other cities.'

Jesus Rob. Where do you get half of these figures from? If you could make half of that stick you'd be doing very well.

Road-Hog

hardybuck wrote: »

Jesus Rob. Where do you get half of these figures from? If you could make half of that stick you'd be doing very well.

That dzilla guy v rob Would make for a good debate on future of Waterford and retail and probably economics in general

Too many nay-sayers and arm chair economists out there locally....how many times have we heard that council has ruined this that and the other be it the quays the toll Bridge, the outer ring road, the most recent traffic changes at manor st etc etc......

Harry Palmr

er no it wouldn't.

dzilla

Road-Hog wrote: »

That dzilla guy v rob Would make for a good debate on future of Waterford and retail and probably economics in general

Too many nay-sayers and arm chair economists out there locally....how many times have we heard that council has ruined this that and the other be it the quays the toll Bridge, the outer ring road, the most recent traffic changes at manor st etc etc......

What that guy said

dzilla

robcass78 wrote: »

660m spent outside the region. About 10,000 jobs in the city centre if the sales are 100k per person.

10,000 jobs. Who then would have 200m to spend in businesses.

How many is that a factor of what the Crystal employed?

Or that leakage is 3 times the amount currently spent in the city trade. And 3 times the current amount working in retail.

So those talking North Quays 'will kill the city' talking nonsense, as underspaced by 40%, with 50% population growth & 25% wage growth ahead. Those numbers are very attractive to retail brands as most of Europe & US are overspaced, declining / flat population with minimal wage growth.

The leakage in spend is outside the region as there isn't a regional destination to shop in which is an experience.

Then add 400m of tourism spend that's currently missing. Which is 4,000 jobs.

Crystal didn't kill the city; the lack of service jobs in retail & tourism is why there's 10,000 jobs missing today.

North Quays & Michael St 50,000 m2 of retail will only close 150-180m of that 660m current leakage but it will mean reversal of trade into the city IF people choose to spend money in the city.

It's the only region in Ireland missing a destination, and the region with the lowest cost of living (i.e. High disposable income ahead with the growth and jobs.)

And retail is only 25% of the area. That's why you have to have the mix right. With retail it's 25-30% clothing now as more about tech & food & softplay experiences.

Oh and the banks sell the spend data internationally on spend. To retailers. That's how we get our data & analysis to make fact-based, not car crash / white elephant decisions.

But keep thinking it won't happen; it will only not happen if the community doesn't shout loud enough at politicians to say 'make it so; we deserve the best city for the future. We want those jobs for our families and kids, not other cities.'

Great post, one thing, where are they putting the Mono-Rail?

Deiseen

dzilla wrote: »

robcass78 wrote: »

660m spent outside the region. About 10,000 jobs in the city centre if the sales are 100k per person.

10,000 jobs. Who then would have 200m to spend in businesses.

How many is that a factor of what the Crystal employed?

Or that leakage is 3 times the amount currently spent in the city trade. And 3 times the current amount working in retail.

So those talking North Quays 'will kill the city' talking nonsense, as underspaced by 40%, with 50% population growth & 25% wage growth ahead. Those numbers are very attractive to retail brands as most of Europe & US are overspaced, declining / flat population with minimal wage growth.

The leakage in spend is outside the region as there isn't a regional destination to shop in which is an experience.

Then add 400m of tourism spend that's currently missing. Which is 4,000 jobs.

Crystal didn't kill the city; the lack of service jobs in retail & tourism is why there's 10,000 jobs missing today.

North Quays & Michael St 50,000 m2 of retail will only close 150-180m of that 660m current leakage but it will mean reversal of trade into the city IF people choose to spend money in the city.

It's the only region in Ireland missing a destination, and the region with the lowest cost of living (i.e. High disposable income ahead with the growth and jobs.)

And retail is only 25% of the area. That's why you have to have the mix right. With retail it's 25-30% clothing now as more about tech & food & softplay experiences.

Oh and the banks sell the spend data internationally on spend. To retailers. That's how we get our data & analysis to make fact-based, not car crash / white elephant decisions.

But keep thinking it won't happen; it will only not happen if the community doesn't shout loud enough at politicians to say 'make it so; we deserve the best city for the future. We want those jobs for our families and kids, not other cities.'

Great post, one thing, where are they putting the Mono-Rail?

On the pedestrian bridge

Road-Hog

dzilla wrote: »

What that guy said

Yes. Rob the ‘nay-sayer’ total arm chair expert...! Think you should look in the mirror though

dzilla

Road-Hog wrote: »

Yes. Rob the ‘nay-sayer’ total arm chair expert...

Your words

dzilla

Deiseen wrote: »

On the pedestrian bridge

Not really a pedestrian bridge then :pac::pac:

azimuth17

Its pointless to say it or even engage, but I would give my right arm to understand the pathology of Dzilla's antipathy to Waterford city and attempts to attract investment, development etc. The obvious desire to hurt and offend by denying even aspirations is very sad. The use of the word "ye" in many of his/her posts is informative.

dzilla

azimuth17 wrote: »

Its pointless to say it or even engage, but I would give my right arm to understand the pathology of Dzilla's antipathy to Waterford city and attempts to attract investment, development etc. The obvious desire to hurt and offend by denying even aspirations is very sad. The use of the word "ye" in many of his/her posts is informative.

I'm just giving my opinion pal. If that is something you are not able to deal with, I feel sorry for you

Ooops I didn't use a full stop.

Deiseen

dzilla wrote: »

azimuth17 wrote: »

Its pointless to say it or even engage, but I would give my right arm to understand the pathology of Dzilla's antipathy to Waterford city and attempts to attract investment, development etc. The obvious desire to hurt and offend by denying even aspirations is very sad. The use of the word "ye" in many of his/her posts is informative.

I'm just giving my opinion pal. If that is something you are not able to deal with, I feel sorry for you

Ooops I didn't use a full stop.

Jesus man, Don't try and pass your contributions off as opinions.

dzilla

Deiseen wrote: »

Jesus man, Don't try and pass your contributions off as opinions.

And how is all in the echo chamber?

Road-Hog

dzilla wrote: »

I'm just giving my opinion pal. If that is something you are not able to deal with, I feel sorry for you

Ooops I didn't use a full stop.

Your forgot to add the adjective ‘pessimistic’ or negative (or maybe extremely negative would be more accurate) before the word opinion...!

I would be interested to hear/have your view on rob cass’ most recent post above......

dzilla

Road-Hog wrote: »

Your forgot to add the adjective ‘pessimistic’ or negative (or maybe extremely negative would be more accurate) before the word opinion...!

I would be interested to hear/have your view on rob cass’ most recent post above......

All fantasy

dzilla

Road-Hog wrote: »

Your forgot to add the adjective ‘pessimistic’ or negative (or maybe extremely negative would be more accurate) before the word opinion...!

I would be interested to hear/have your view on rob cass’ most recent post above......

I laugh how you want my view point but when I've given my points earlier you scoff at them.

Road-Hog

dzilla wrote: »

I laugh how you want my view point but when I've given my points earlier you scoff at them.

Thought you might offer a counter argument to the figures/fantasy figures he quotes.....I Think he does make some valid points but don’t quite follow the €100k spent per person or the model he uses to convert the capital spend into 10,000 Jobs etc etc...?

It’s much too easy to just dismiss it all as fantasy.....in the same way that some with a more glass half full view will lap it up......outside a few IDA backed FDI’s west pharma and one or two others this is potentially up there with the largest investment the region may get in years.....

By all means dismiss It all with just one word such as ‘fantasy’......but I think this looks to have a lot more potential than previous ‘false dawns/promises’......in the end of the day your view will have no influence over whether the project fails or progresses.

Max Powers

Road-Hog wrote: »

Thought you might offer a counter argument to the figures/fantasy figures he quotes.....I Think he does make some valid points but don’t quite follow the €100k spent per person or the model he uses to convert the capital spend into 10,000 Jobs etc etc...?

It’s much too easy to just dismiss it all as fantasy.....in the same way that some with a more glass half full view will lap it up......outside a few IDA backed FDI’s west pharma and one or two others this is potentially up there with the largest investment the region may get in years.....

By all means dismiss It all with just one word such as ‘fantasy’......but I think this looks to have a lot more potential than previous ‘false dawns/promises’......in the end of the day your view will have no influence over whether the project fails or progresses.

At end of day, people like dzilla who bad mouth everything, offer nothing constructive and realistic, they never amount to a hill of beans or never achieve anything worth a second look in life. What's worse or more pathetic than all that is trying to drag others into their misery.

Road-Hog

Max Powers wrote: »

At end of day, people like dzilla who bad mouth everything, offer nothing constructive and realistic, they never amount to a hill of beans or never achieve anything worth a second look in life. What's worse or more pathetic than all that is trying to drag others into their misery.

Yes. Well said

alta stare

Max Powers wrote: »

At end of day, people like dzilla who bad mouth everything, offer nothing constructive and realistic, they never amount to a hill of beans or never achieve anything worth a second look in life. What's worse or more pathetic than all that is trying to drag others into their misery.

Im sorry but that statement is a crock of crap.

How the hell can you make such a statement when you dont know what anybody may have or havent done with their lives.

People are allowed an opinion whether you like it or not and if you happen not to then that does not make them negative so cop on with that sh!te your spouting. I couldn't be arsed going back and forth with someone like you but when you make comments like you just have then i cant help it. Utter tripe from you.... Yet again.

Road-Hog

alta stare wrote: »

Im sorry but that statement is a crock of crap.

How the hell can you make such a statement when you dont know what anybody may have or havent done with their lives.

People are allowed an opinion whether you like it or not and if you happen not to then that does not make them negative so cop on with that sh!te your spouting. I couldn't be arsed going back and forth with someone like you but when you make comments like you just have then i cant help it. Utter tripe from you.... Yet again.

I. Don’t see how one could come to any other view on mr/Mrs dzilla other than he/she is negative stuff about broader achievements in life is off the mark but based on this persons posts to this thread ‘glass half empty’ pessimistic negative etc etc is all that is protracted

Max Powers

alta stare wrote: »

Im sorry but that statement is a crock of crap.

How the hell can you make such a statement when you dont know what anybody may have or havent done with their lives.

People are allowed an opinion whether you like it or not and if you happen not to then that does not make them negative so cop on with that sh!te your spouting. I couldn't be arsed going back and forth with someone like you but when you make comments like you just have then i cant help it. Utter tripe from you.... Yet again.

We all know lads like that alta...all do nowt but spout off a lot

alta stare

Max Powers wrote: »

We all know lads like that alta...all do nowt but spout off a lot

People are allowed criticise Max and it doesnt necessarily mean they are negative. Posters like you give out about people who criticise and ye make it out as if they are demons for doing so.

Im pretty sure we are still living in democracy and given that we are we can have a discussion platform like Boards where any person can give their opinion whether you agree with it or not.

I have been called negative just because i question Rob, other posters have been called negative because they express their views that this development may not happen and the common theme is that people like you come along calling us negative and the likes. You are childish the way you make assumptions about other posters lives and it smacks of desperation of someone who just cant face the fact other people have a different opinions to what you or other posters may have. Its time to grow up Max and accept you dont own all things Waterford so you need not get so offended when others think differently about our city.

Road-Hog

alta stare wrote: »

People are allowed criticise Max and it doesnt necessarily mean they are negative. Posters like you give out about people who criticise and ye make it out as if they are demons for doing so.

Im pretty sure we are still living in democracy and given that we are we can have a discussion platform like Boards where any person can give their opinion whether you agree with it or not.

I have been called negative just because i question Rob, other posters have been called negative because they express their views that this development may not happen and the common theme is that people like you come along calling us negative and the likes. You are childish the way you make assumptions about other posters lives and it smacks of desperation of someone who just cant face the fact other people have a different opinions to what you or other posters may have. Its time to grow up Max and accept you dont own all things Waterford so you need not get so offended when others think differently about our city.

There is a difference between criticism and total dismissiveness......which what Dzilla engages in

alta stare

Road-Hog wrote: »

There is a difference between criticism and total dismissiveness......which what Dzilla engages in

Thats fair enough but you have to admit that Max is making wild assumptions in his earlier post which is ridiculous but its not surprising as he has form for it.

Deiseen

alta stare wrote: »

Road-Hog wrote: »

There is a difference between criticism and total dismissiveness......which what Dzilla engages in

Thats fair enough but you have to admit that Max is making wild assumptions in his earlier post which is ridiculous but its not surprising as he has form for it.

Its not just the North Quays that dzilla dismisses entirely. So hes either a troll or an extremely negative person..

Wanderer78

A healthy amount of skepticism and criticism is good for debate, but personal attack is not good, I do feel rob is doing this for the right reasons but may have the wrong approach.

Max Powers

alta stare wrote: »

Thats fair enough but you have to admit that Max is making wild assumptions in his earlier post which is ridiculous but its not surprising as he has form for it.

Werent you calling someone on here a spoofer recently....form for it.
Anyway, posting opinions when fair, backed up by something or just reasonably intelligent are fine, idiotic /trolling posts are bound to be challenged.

Deiseen

Wanderer78 wrote: »

A healthy amount of skepticism and criticism is good for debate, but personal attack is not good, I do feel rob is doing this for the right reasons but may have the wrong approach.

Doing what? The North Quays?