€300M Investment into Waterford City

ImAHappyCamper

There was a story over the weekend that with the hospital in Dublin going over budget,certain projects around the country will be cut back. The NQ will probably be one of them I'd guess/fear.

Harry Palmr

Well that was pretty lame, John Paul Phelan who was in talking about mayors, was asked and he "hoped" it would go ahead. Either it will or it won't, hoping isn't an option.

TheQuietFella

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Listen to Deise Today at 10 am. the whole thing is under threat as of now due to lack of central funding.

Now isn't that just a big surprise! I'm amazed!

jelutong

Who picked up the tab for the work that's been done so far? Demolition of the Mill , surveys etc.

Max Powers

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Well that was pretty lame, John Paul Phelan who was in talking about mayors, was asked and he "hoped" it would go ahead. Either it will or it won't, hoping isn't an option.

So the radio added little or nothing info wise...in the n&s today, Eoghan Murphy is firming up support for it, saying bigger projects will see more money as they progress and into 2020. He also mentioned meetings between council and dept plus further meetings for 'the establishment of detailed multi annual programme grant agreement' plus other departments to enable construction and delivery.
The bridge consultation closed today.
The consultation on road/rail changes closed couple weeks ago, no major issues in report on website.
More money hopefully being announced next month, hopefully more to be gained.

Max Powers

jelutong wrote: »

Who picked up the tab for the work that's been done so far? Demolition of the Mill , surveys etc.

Council

hardybuck

Max Powers wrote: »

Council

And where was that money raised?

Max Powers

hardybuck wrote: »

And where was that money raised?

Dunno, it's well known they're in the red anyway.
Borrowings presumably, overdraft you'd have to ask someone in their finance department probably

hardybuck

Max Powers wrote: »

Dunno, it's well known they're in the red anyway.

4 out of every 10 councils are in the red.

About a third of most councils funding is self raised through rates, the remainder met by Central Government - normally towards capital projects.

Most councils have proved themselves quite poor at controlling their spending.

Max Powers

hardybuck wrote: »

4 out of every 10 councils are in the red.

About a third of most councils funding is self raised through rates, the remainder met by Central Government - normally towards capital projects.

Most councils have proved themselves quite poor at controlling their spending.

And?

They borrowed money to finish greenway when the government didn't give them what they were expecting, they went ahead with greenway anyway, I don't think anyone would say that was a bad idea.
They've spent millions doing work on north quays, Don't think anyone could fault them there either.
Maybe there was some costs, deficits inherited from merger too, who knows.
As for rates, like you say, I'd guess collection is poor in a lot off councils, similar to housing payments, if they got tough on non payers, say outsourced debt collection, you can imagine the outcry, effectively they are at the hands of central government.

TheQuietFella

hardybuck wrote: »

And where was that money raised?

Property Tax increase will pay for that!

fricatus

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Property Tax increase will pay for that!

So be it... then at least some of our taxes will then go towards worthwhile stuff that's happening locally, not just on bloated construction projects in Dublin.

Max Powers

fricatus wrote: »

So be it... then at least some of our taxes will then go towards worthwhile stuff that's happening locally, not just on bloated construction projects in Dublin.

Agreed...I don't think a lot of people see that connection or see it that way, certainly our wise councillors (sarky) don't see that, they decide not council

TheQuietFella

fricatus wrote: »

So be it... then at least some of our taxes will then go towards worthwhile stuff that's happening locally, not just on bloated construction projects in Dublin.

And you call this spending 'worthwhile' The demolition of a few buildings

since 2016! Three years talking about nothing. It was all one big farce, an

April fools joke that lasted three years but I'm not going to suggest again

that it was never going to happen regardless anymore.

TheQuietFella

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057953953

A good read!

fargojones123

The lack of progress on the NQ and Michael Street are really starting to hurt the city, apparently new businesses are holding out coming to Waterford until they know what the developments are going to be like

Max Powers

fargojones123 wrote: »

The lack of progress on the NQ and Michael Street are really starting to hurt the city, apparently new businesses are holding out coming to Waterford until they know what the developments are going to be like

Very frustrating alright, a big thing would be if bridge contractor was tendered, appointed and started, this is down to govt funding presumably., we are desperate for kick off at this stage.on a positive Alhokair rep recently confirmed all their design and engineering contractors have been appointed.

cgcsb

fricatus wrote: »

So be it... then at least some of our taxes will then go towards worthwhile stuff that's happening locally, not just on bloated construction projects in Dublin.

Capital spending per head in Dublin is very low compared to the other regions. The current mega bypass of New Ross for example exceeds the total transport capital spend in Dublin at the moment.

Gardner

Max Powers wrote: »

Very frustrating alright, a big thing would be if bridge contractor was tendered, appointed and started, this is down to govt funding presumably., we are desperate for kick off at this stage.on a positive Alhokair rep recently confirmed all their design and engineering contractors have been appointed.

yet if you ask people within the industry who work for these major engineering contractors they know little about it. there hasn't been any official announcement who these contractors are!

another thing that bugs me, if a developer is willing to invest 300m+ and is waiting for funding from the government for say 10% of the investment then that rings alarm bells for me.

Harry Palmr

That means little really - once that bypass is finished that's it. There will be nothing comparable in the SE region for years unless I've forgotten something. In Dublin (however you measure it's extent) they'll be something else along shortly.

cgcsb

Harry Palmr wrote: »

That means little really - once that bypass is finished that's it. There will be nothing comparable in the SE region for years unless I've forgotten something. In Dublin (however you measure it's extent) they'll be something else along shortly.

Well yes because they're vastly different regions. The South East has a population of 422,000 and Grater Dublin Has a population of about 2,000,000, some 5 times the South East. Per head the South East gets more capital spend. This might change by about 2025 if/when Metrolink, DART expansion and the Core Bus Corridors projects are in construction phase. But that'll be all over by 2030.

The South East is not a victim of Dublin largess, neither is any region, quite the opposite has been the case since independence. Capital spending is poor across the country because of the political set up. Current spending is just more valuable to the Irish voter, hence the elaborate welfare state we have now.

hardybuck

Max Powers wrote: »

And?

They borrowed money to finish greenway when the government didn't give them what they were expecting, they went ahead with greenway anyway, I don't think anyone would say that was a bad idea.
They've spent millions doing work on north quays, Don't think anyone could fault them there either.
Maybe there was some costs, deficits inherited from merger too, who knows.
As for rates, like you say, I'd guess collection is poor in a lot off councils, similar to housing payments, if they got tough on non payers, say outsourced debt collection, you can imagine the outcry, effectively they are at the hands of central government.

And you're inferring that WCC ponied up for North Quays clearance when they most likely didn't. I was just curious as to where you thought they got it from.

invara

cgcsb wrote: »

Well yes because they're vastly different regions. The South East has a population of 422,000 and Grater Dublin Has a population of about 2,000,000, some 5 times the South East. Per head the South East gets more capital spend. This might change by about 2025 if/when Metrolink, DART expansion and the Core Bus Corridors projects are in construction phase. But that'll be all over by 2030.

The South East is not a victim of Dublin largess, neither is any region, quite the opposite has been the case since independence. Capital spending is poor across the country because of the political set up. Current spending is just more valuable to the Irish voter, hence the elaborate welfare state we have now.

Data from Edgar Morgenrath in the ERSI, who did much of the early analysis driving Ireland 2040 suggests that the SE gets around 80% of the per capita capital expenditure, Cork and Limerick receive around 120%. Dublin, as you suggest, is slightly under the 100%/fair share depending on where you cast the ring of Dublin (as Dublin or Mid-East).

https://www.esri.ie/system/files?file=media/file-uploads/2018-01/RS70.pdf
https://igees.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/sfilt-background-paper-17-regional-breakdown-road-expenditure.pdf

In virtually all the economic data we can see this under-investment play out in social and economic indicators.

Bards

Urban regeneration fund being hit for 16m due to Children's Hospital Cost overrun

You can kiss goodbye to the North Quays now

Bards

Urban regeneration fund being hit for 16m due to Children's Hospital Cost overrun

You can kiss goodbye to the North Quays now

Bards

Urban regeneration fund being hit for 16m due to Children's Hospital Cost overrun

You can kiss goodbye to the North Quays now

Max Powers

Bards wrote: »

Urban regeneration fund being hit for 16m due to Children's Hospital Cost overrun

You can kiss goodbye to the North Quays now

Jeez bards, there's a lot more than 16m designated for the URDF

Bards

Max Powers wrote: »

Bards wrote: »

Urban regeneration fund being hit for 16m due to Children's Hospital Cost overrun

You can kiss goodbye to the North Quays now

Jeez bards, there's a lot more than 16m designated for the URDF

That's the money we were promised this Month after the measly 6m we got in the first tranche

Harry Palmr

Bards nearly posted 16m times.

Bards

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Bards nearly posted 16m times.

That's the mobile app...grrrr