€300M Investment into Waterford City

fricatus

I went along to the presentation last night, and I must say I was blown away by the amount of work and thought that has gone into this, plus the joined-up thinking that's evident everywhere in it. Rob Cass is one of these people that seem to think at 90 miles an hour, sees the big picture, and joins all the dots. Whether the project is successful or not is another thing, but if it fails, it won't be for want of effort on his part.

Some things really surprised me as well, such as the level of belief he has in the country, region and city, plus his confidence in the people he's been working with in the councils and Iarnród Éireann. If you were to listen to Newstalk all day (or indeed spend all your time on boards.ie), you would be forgiven for thinking that people in those public-sector roles were irredeemably useless. Yet here's a real developer playing down his own importance, while at the same time talking up the people in those roles, with adjectives like "superb" and "excellent".

Another surprise was how eager the railway people are to build a new railway station. When Rob pointed out the question of "how long has it been since they got to do that?", it all began to make sense.

I have an interest in sustainable technologies myself, and I think they're really key to driving down costs, as well as helping fight climate change (not only are renewables cheaper than fossil energy in themselves, they will also help us avoid having to pay for carbon credits and fines). It was therefore really impressive to see how the development plans to have solar panels installed across a lot of the roof space, plus an energy centre featuring battery storage where the excess energy generated can be held for use after dark. This is cutting-edge stuff which I know is being done already in some of the more forward-thinking countries like the Netherlands and Denmark. The effect will be to cut the energy bills on site, and there was one retailer there who was very impressed, because apparently the cost of juice is a huge overhead for retailers.

It is squeaky-bum time now, because if the government doesn't come up with the cash for the infrastructural developments by November, then the project won't go ahead (IIRC you can hear Rob saying this in the interview with WLR a few posts back). However he is confident they'll come through, otherwise why would they have put all this work in?

If there's another similar event, roadshow, etc., I'll definitely be going along to see how it's all playing out.

DLS_75

Did he mention anything about being given assurances about the government funding?

fricatus

DLS_75 wrote: »

Did he mention anything about being given assurances about the government funding?

Yes, though I couldn't quote it back to you in any way reliably or give you any details. He had quite a heated (though good natured) exchange with someone called Darren in the audience, who I assume was Darren Skelton from the News & Star. Darren by his own admission was pessimistic about government funding, while at the same time hoping fervently that the thing happens (I'd share his view, having seen many false dawns). Rob acknowledged the validity of that view, but said he was confident that the funding will happen.

I reckon if you go back and listen to the interview, you'll get the sense of that particular facet of the discussion. I don't think he had anything new to say last night - and why would he, since the interview is only a few days old.

DLS_75

Ok will do. I’m fascinated by rob Cass. He was on WLR and Twitter I think, saying that they’d be gone by November if funding wasn’t secured and then all of a sudden they’re ‘all systems go’. They must have been given assurances and it would be nice if they could share them with us.

Sorry, one more question, were there many new images?

fricatus

DLS_75 wrote: »

Sorry, one more question, were there many new images?

Yes, loads, and it looks deadly

Sorry I don't have any, but Rob did put one up on Twitter in the past day or two. He did also say that this is the final design, and is what will be built, so no more "artist's impression of possible design".

Deiseen

fricatus wrote: »

Yes, loads, and it looks deadly

Sorry I don't have any, but Rob did put one up on Twitter in the past day or two. He did also say that this is the final design, and is what will be built, so no more "artist's impression of possible design".

Careful with all that optimisim, it'll get you in trouble on here

BBM77

DLS_75 wrote: »

Ok will do. I’m fascinated by rob Cass. He was on WLR and Twitter I think, saying that they’d be gone by November if funding wasn’t secured and then all of a sudden they’re ‘all systems go’. They must have been given assurances and it would be nice if they could share them with us.

Sorry, one more question, were there many new images?

In the WLR interview Rob Cass said they received a letter from whatever minister responsible of the governments commitment to the funding.

Harry Palmr

It tells us something about the state of this government (and indeed all previous ones!) that the biggest block to success is the possiblity of not getting their asses in gear and that we the public basically fear they'll **** it up "cos that's what they do".

hardybuck

Harry Palmr wrote: »

It tells us something about the state of this government (and indeed all previous ones!) that the biggest block to success is the possiblity of not getting their asses in gear and that we the public basically fear they'll **** it up "cos that's what they do".

You have a classic chicken an egg situation here.

Government monies are held back until the proposal has become more advanced, once it's been fully scrutinised from a cost benefit perspective, or to allow higher priority projects to get their funding ahead of this one.

You then have a private developer who needs something from Government and is afraid to rush too far ahead for fear that the support mightn't be behind them.

Hence a letter of comfort - which I understand Eoin Murphy has given them.

The biggest block, and biggest risk, to success is actually that the developers don't do their job well or if something happens to the market. They've a lot of work to do yet so fingers crossed they'll get everything right as construction is a complicated business.

bullpost

Interesting article about how a forgotten town in France went about successful rejuventation (Some parallels with Waterford):
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/may/20/from-bleak-to-bustling-how-one-french-town-beat-the-high-street-blues-mulhouse

hardybuck

bullpost wrote: »

Interesting article about how a forgotten town in France went about successful rejuventation (Some parallels with Waterford):
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/may/20/from-bleak-to-bustling-how-one-french-town-beat-the-high-street-blues-mulhouse

It seems like the core elements of their success was doing something quite different to what is proposed by this development on the Quays.

Max Powers

hardybuck wrote: »

It seems like the core elements of their success was doing something quite different to what is proposed by this development on the Quays.

To me it seems like pretty much exactly what the council have been doing last 10or so years, better public spaces, increasing tourist/cultural offering, more people friendly places rather than cars, renovation of building fronts, bike use promotion.The north quay will not so much be a rejuvenation but more of a birth, a different animal altogether.I'm sure this French town would cut its arm off for a city centre development like that.

hardybuck

Max Powers wrote: »

To me it seems like pretty much exactly what the council have been doing last 10or so years, better public spaces, increasing tourist/cultural offering, more people friendly places rather than cars, renovation of building fronts, bike use promotion.The north quay will not so much be a rejuvenation but more of a birth, a different animal altogether.I'm sure this French town would cut its arm off for a city centre development like that.

They probably would, and while I know Michael Street is due something also, if the city centre doesn't get an overhaul pretty quickly this could draw further business from it and kill it.

We could be talking about something which was brilliant for Ferrybank but didn't do much for Waterford except having something nice to look across at.

Perhaps some of the local election candidates would be better served by looking at Mulhouse et al and looking at planning strategies for the city centre, examining the current rates structure rather than banging on about national issues which they have no influence over.

Max Powers

hardybuck wrote: »

They probably would, and while I know Michael Street is due something also, if the city centre doesn't get an overhaul pretty quickly this could draw further business from it and kill it.

We could be talking about something which was brilliant for Ferrybank but didn't do much for Waterford except having something nice to look across at.

Perhaps some of the local election candidates would be better served by looking at Mulhouse et al and looking at planning strategies for the city centre, examining the current rates structure rather than banging on about national issues which they have no influence over.

I don't think so, The city centre has had a fairly big overhaul in terms of public investment and Michael street will add further to that. Good for ferrybank but not the other side of the city, about 60m away across a pedestrian bridge? People won't walk 60m or so? I don't see that as a problem, especially when you consider short distance, possible transport across talked about , increased visitors/shoppers and fact that city side will always have primacy.

Max Powers

I'd add the pedestrian bridge will bring more ferrybank people into city centre, have friends over there with young kids, thoughts of walking down dual carriage way with pram etc, a non runner, opportunity to walk straight to city centre great if bringing kids to city centre without car.

hardybuck

Max Powers wrote: »

I don't think so, The city centre has had a fairly big overhaul in terms of public investment and Michael street will add further to that. Good for ferrybank but not the other side of the city, about 60m away across a pedestrian bridge? People won't walk 60m or so? I don't see that as a problem, especially when you consider short distance, possible transport across talked about , increased visitors/shoppers and fact that city side will always have primacy.

They've definitely done a lot on the public realm, no quibbles with that.

Looking at places like the CHQ in Dublin's Quays, and the apartments around there, the people who live and work there are around the corner from some of the most impoverished areas in Ireland. The money stays there and isn't felt in the area around it.

There is a huge amount of vacant retail space. There is a residential property shortage, and the Council could be focusing on getting more people living in the city centre in good quality apartments rather than accepting loads of planning developments out towards the ring roads.

Not knocking the North Quays as a concept - but that article was a great example of how the existing city centre was given life through unique small businesses that didn't exist elsewhere, not more of the highstreet chain stores that every other city has.

Harry Palmr

I wish people would remember the bridge is a minibus bridge as well as a walking bridge.

914

Max Powers wrote: »

about 60m away across a pedestrian bridge?

Just to put that into more context, the north quays to the applemarket is the same length as grathon street in Dublin.

MartyMcFly84

It would be lovely to have some bars and restaurants along the quay waterfront and a promenade instead of carparks the length of the quay. Its an incredible waste of water frontage. Something we should be taking advantage of instead only using to park a car and walk away from.

A couple of multistory carparks could add a significant amount of parking without so much waterfront taken up.

Harry Palmr

The quays should be built out in a few places, it doesn't need to be anything over-engineered for light foot traffic after all.

hardybuck

914 wrote: »

Just to put that into more context, the north quays to the applemarket is the same length as grathon street in Dublin.

That couldn't be correct.

Just google mapped it there. Apple Market to the clock tower is a 450m or 5 minute walk. The Apple Market to the Plaza is a 650m or 8 minute walk.

I'm not sure where the exact crossing is, but that's before you go across.

cgcsb

How the waterfront became a carpark in the first place is a spectacular failure of local government

Harry Palmr

It was cheap and it was there.

MartyMcFly84

A little bit of forward thinking on the waterfront could make Waterford a spectacular city. Could you imagine coming over the bridge to a bustling prom.

Azatadine

Wexford boardswalks on the quays are lovely. To be fair, it looks out to sea so Waterford couldn't get the same effect but still. They also use it well with festivals like Spiegeltent.

https://wexfordspiegeltent.com/events/

On the flip side the parking in Wexford is atrocious.

914

hardybuck wrote: »

That couldn't be correct.

Just google mapped it there. Apple Market to the clock tower is a 450m or 5 minute walk. The Apple Market to the Plaza is a 650m or 8 minute walk.

I'm not sure where the exact crossing is, but that's before you go across.

There or there abouts then. I think grafton street is 500 meters, from the edge of stephens green to the top of grafton st. Apple market as you said is 450 meters to the clock there which is where the new bridge will be located. Add the width of the river and you will be at the north quays. Add to the fact a few bus service will be available to cross the bridge.

I would like to see this service run from the HQ to the apple market and back.

hardybuck

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

It would be lovely to have some bars and restaurants along the quay waterfront and a promenade instead of carparks the length of the quay. Its an incredible waste of water frontage. Something we should be taking advantage of instead only using to park a car and walk away from.

A couple of multistory carparks could add a significant amount of parking without so much waterfront taken up.

Agreed, but it is possible with potential flooding?

914

hardybuck wrote: »

Agreed, but it is possible with potential flooding?

Quays haven't flood since the glass flood barriers were installed while drains auto close once the water rises to prevent flood waters moving through any drain pipes

alta stare

A boardwalk on the quay would be fantastic. Will it ever happen though given some of the car parks are in private ownership, also id say the city council are making too much money off the ones they own so that may not encourage them to go after such an idea. It would be great to see though.

Max Powers

alta stare wrote: »

A boardwalk on the quay would be fantastic. Will it ever happen though given some of the car parks are in private ownership, also id say the city council are making too much money off the ones they own so that may not encourage them to go after such an idea. It would be great to see though.

Council own very little car parks there AFAIK